Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!spool.mu.edu!uunet!pmafire! From: jeffl@servprod.inel.gov (Jeff Later) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Questions about PROTECTION Message-ID: <1991Jun20.210043.21547@pmafire.inel.gov> Date: 20 Jun 91 21:00:43 GMT Sender: J. B. Later Distribution: na Organization: WINCO Lines: 44 While there is a great deal of information regarding UFO abductions, victims and types of dangers associated with "visitors/intruders", I have not found a single source for information regarding PERSONAL DEFENCE! I have tried contacting a few of the more "knowledgeable" and "serious" members of this group regarding the following questions, to no avail. Perhaps they would feel more inclined to respond in a more "public forum". 1. IS there ANYTHING one can do to protect himself and his family from becoming victims of an "alien" abduction? 2. Is there ANY kind of "security system" that might work in protecting an individual within the boundaries of his home and auto, or does the possibility of these intruders having "multi-dimention capability" make "barriers" or alarm systems useless? 3. Can, or should conventional weapons, ie- handguns, rifles, shotguns, be considered for protection, or are they useless? 4. What about the possibility of other "non-conventional weapons", ie. sonic, optical, laser, eletrical etc., for protection? Or are we totally helpless? 5. Is there ANY way or means one can tell if he or his family or friends have been victims, or have "implants"? 6. How can one communicate this great danger to family and friends without being given the "nutcase" treatment?? 7. Could it be that the single reason our government has kept this information from its people for so long, is that they are totally HELPLESS in protecting us? And that the only "bargaining chip" our government has with the alien intruders is the "loaded gun to the head" type, ie. "if you interfere too much, or invade, we will Nuke ourselves, and you with us"???? 8. Is there ANY hope, or is it in God's hands at this point? jeffl@pmafire.inel.gov ***Opinions expressed are not those of my employeer*** Path: ns-mx!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!news.cs.indiana.edu!bronze!anachem From: anachem@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (mark s gilstrap) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Questions about PROTECTION Message-ID: <1991Jun20.230539.19833@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> Date: 20 Jun 91 23:05:39 GMT References: <1991Jun20.210043.21547@pmafire.inel.gov> Distribution: na Organization: Indiana University, Bloomington Lines: 153 In article <1991Jun20.210043.21547@pmafire.inel.gov> jeffl@servprod.inel.gov (Jeff Later) writes: > >While there is a great deal of information regarding UFO abductions, victims >and types of dangers associated with "visitors/intruders", >I have not found a single source for information regarding PERSONAL DEFENCE! >I have tried contacting a few of the more "knowledgeable" and "serious" >members of this group regarding the following questions, to no avail. >Perhaps they would feel more inclined to respond in a more "public forum". > >1. IS there ANYTHING one can do to protect himself and his family > from becoming victims of an "alien" abduction? > This may be a very unpopular viewpoint. I am of the opinion that UFOs and aliens are real phenomena. BUT I do not ascribe the extraterrestrial humanoid space traveller etc interpretations to them. I have been reading the posts which are accounts of abductions and see a common thread which confirms my opinions (which are also shared by many). The aliens themselves have an achetypical appearance which is reminescent of leprechauns, or other traditional manifestations of demons. The most common depictions I have seen are quintessential demonic images. Only the modus operandi of these demons leads to modern interpretations which reflect the technology of the day. (Of course modern UFO "sightings" are all post WWII - earlier visitations were given different interpretations - but the demons have always inhabited the "aerial realm") [I need less margin...] As a teen, my father and I went to Kansas City UFO Club meetings. At that time I did not in any way believe the way I do now. We both believed that there were funny things going on, and my uncle who piloted a B-52 for SAC confirmed that from personal experiences. At the club meeting we leraned that to contact the UFOs you first needed to want to. Then it was said that it was helpful to "invite" them - perhaps repeating a phrase while meditating on them. To those of you familiar with incantations and mediumism, this will sound familiar. To repeat, I believe in UFOs. I have seen them. I know the personal distress and psychic damage that comes from any contact at all. The stories of the desert dwellers and ascetics of the past are full of the very same descriptions of what they have always called spiritual warfare (not the pablum of the evangelicals, but the real thing - your soul on the line - for keeps!) and demonization. In summary, the answer to your question about defense is to not become involved with them at all. They have no power over you that you do not allow by a dissolute life or by your conscious invitation. The standard weapon of course is a religious one. I am convinced that it works however. Soon after my conversion to Orthodox Christianity (in my case Russian Orthodoxy) I was attacked from the aerial realm. I can still vividly see the confusing dance of the lights and the associated images which came in dreams for some time thereafter. For a brief period I couln't go outside without the skys manifesting these "phenomena" and they were not a pleasant experience. But I learned first hand that the power of the Cross is real. The Orthodox (in a manner similar to Catholics) make the sign of the cross by touching the forehead, the chest, the right then the left shoulders with the hands held in a certain way representing the dogma of the Trinity. This sign trully conquers the enemies of mankind, the demons. And the sign of the Cross "scatters the enemies" they "flee from its prescence" and "as wax melts from the presence of fire, so the demons perish from the presence of those who love God and who sign themselves with the sign of the Cross and say in gladness: Rejoice, most precious and life-giving Cross of the Lord, for Thou drivest away the demons by the power of our Lord Jesus Christ crucified on thee, Who went down to hell and trampled on the power of the devil, and gave us thee, His venerable Cross, for driving away all enemies." If you are trully wanting to overcome the damage and threats of these psychic visitations, and if you trully believe the words you say, this prayer will be effective. You need no other protection than to get yourself out of such deceptions and into the life of grace in the Church. >2. Is there ANY kind of "security system" that might work > in protecting an individual within the boundaries of his home and auto, > or does the possibility of these intruders having > "multi-dimention capability" make "barriers" or alarm > systems useless? > Holy Things which are accumulated on pilgrimages etc are very effective. I do not wish to ascribe most of mental illness etc to the work of demons, but some cases are that. I have personally seen what the demons do in a possessed person when they come into the presence of Holy Things. It is fearful. Demons cannot stand to be in the presence of holiness. >3. Can, or should conventional weapons, ie- handguns, rifles, shotguns, be > considered for protection, or are they useless? > Under the influence of demons, men use these to their own harm. >4. What about the possibility of other "non-conventional weapons", ie. > sonic, optical, laser, eletrical etc., for protection? Or are we > totally helpless? > You are totally helpless, yourself. But there is protection available. >5. Is there ANY way or means one can tell if he or his family or friends > have been victims, or have "implants"? > There are many signs and manifestations of the psychic distur- bances one may experience. The discernment of an experienced monastic or priest are to be preferred over our often deceived opinions. Implants and other "medical" procedures are commonly reported by abductees, but they never make any sense materialistically, only when one understands the tricks of the mental games do these illusions of procedure make sense. >6. How can one communicate this great danger to family and friends > without being given the "nutcase" treatment?? > Just tell the truth. There is no way to avoid being railed against by ignorance but truth always prevails. The Church *has* been doing a pretty poor job in this hemisphere of being relevant to the real threats. The Eastern Church has a much better track record. >7. Could it be that the single reason our government has kept this information > from its people for so long, is that they are totally HELPLESS > in protecting us? And that the only "bargaining chip" our government has > with the alien intruders is the "loaded gun to the head" type, ie. > "if you interfere too much, or invade, we will Nuke ourselves, and you > with us"???? > If there is any truth at all to government collusion it would have to be thru the organization(s) which counts the power brokers among its members - Freemasonry. >8. Is there ANY hope, or is it in God's hands at this point? > > :) you have a free will. The deception only thrives in ignorance. > > >jeffl@pmafire.inel.gov >***Opinions expressed are not those of my employeer*** Path: ns-mx!uunet!spool.mu.edu!cs.umn.edu!ariel.unm.edu!cie.uoregon.edu!christ From: christ@cie.uoregon.edu (Christian G. Smith) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Questions about PROTECTION Message-ID: <1991Jun21.085737.19669@ariel.unm.edu> Date: 21 Jun 91 08:57:37 GMT References: <1991Jun20.210043.21547@pmafire.inel.gov> Distribution: na Organization: Campus Information Exchange, University of Oregon Lines: 26 In article <1991Jun20.210043.21547@pmafire.inel.gov> jeffl@servprod.inel.gov (Jeff Later) writes: > {Deleted} >3. Can, or should conventional weapons, ie- handguns, rifles, shotguns, be > considered for protection, or are they useless? > >4. What about the possibility of other "non-conventional weapons", ie. > sonic, optical, laser, eletrical etc., for protection? Or are we > totally helpless? > {Deleted} While reading this message I started wondering if guns and lasers were real -ly useless against aliens. On television, and in the movies, aliens sometimes have the mysterious and remarkable ability to render pistols useless (i.e. a man firing a loaded gun at aliens only gets 'CLICK-CLICK'). While admitting that aliens, if they exist, would have some pretty hoopy powe -rs, the power to stop a gun from firing would require some pretty godlike (relatively) techknowlogy. Are there any cases of this happening? -christian christ@cie.uoregon.edu DISCLAIMER:I don't care what my boss thinks, just don't get my sysadmin pissed at me! Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!crdgw1!ge-dab!tarpit!bilver!dona From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re-post: Jacques Vallee Interview off ParaNet Message-ID: <1991Jun20.163456.7594@bilver.uucp> Date: 20 Jun 91 16:34:56 GMT Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL Lines: 621 This is a re-post of the Jacques Vallee article about his book, "Confrontations". This originally appearred on ParaNet. ------Begin Included Text --------------------------------------- Message #6053 - INFO.PARANET Date : 28-May-91 23:26 From : ParaNet(sm) Information Service To : All Subject : Jacques Vallee Interview ***************************************************************** I M P O R T A N T N O T I C E concerning the following text file ***************************************************************** ParaNet makes no endorsement of this material and the views expressed herein are not necessarily the views of ParaNet. This information is provided as a public service only. This file is SHARETEXT material. This means that you are free to distribute it to anyone you like, as long as it is not used for commercial purposes, you do not charge for it, you do not remove this header, or change the contents in anyway. Additionally, we ask that you contribute to ParaNet, if possible, to assure a continuation of this valuable, educational SHARETEXT service. The suggested contribution is $75.00 and entitles you to full access to our comprehensive library and our network of electronic affiliates all over the world. Other services are available. Mail your contribution to: ParaNet Information Service P.O. Box 172 Wheat Ridge, CO 80034-0172 ParaNet(sm): Freedom of Information for a better world! (C) 1991 ParaNet(sm) Information Service. All Rights Reserved. **************************************************************** ParaNet File Number: 01154 **************************************************************** A VOICE IN THE WILDERNESS Recently, Jacques Vallee has been making more public appearances following a hiatus which took him out of the American ufological scene for nearly ten years. His reasons for the absence were directly tied to the disgust he felt toward the methodology employed by UFO researchers and investigators. A very controversial figure, Vallee is highly regarded within the French and European community, where it appears progress is being made due to a diverse attitude among our European counterparts. One has to agree that things are a sad state of affairs right here at home. Virtually no progress is being made as we are actually further from an answer than we were ten years ago. This can be credited to the lack of a focused, scientific approach, coupled with a move away from critical thinking so necessary to begin to understand the complexities that this enigma presents. Vallee has published two books of late - Confrontations and Dimensions, which detail the fruits of his research, conducted quietly and away from the public scene. Vallee's message is clear - The UFO phenomenon represents a clear and present danger. His research indicates that we may be dealing with an extremely complex set of models that demand scientific discipline and a whole new approach to the problem. Vallee is highly concerned with the public's seeming "blind faith" acceptance of the "space brothers" scenario, considering that there are serious actions on the part of the phenomenon to do harm to individuals ithout any consideration for our comfort or feelings. The problem is agitated further by unqualified personnel performing hypnotic regression which seems to cement the contact to fit the hypnotists idea of what happened, instead of what really happened. This, as Vallee says, attempts to force the event into the victim's reality, when it really doesn't belong. Although Vallee has drawn a lot of fire from noted abduction researchers such as Budd Hopkins, his ideas are not far from accepted scientific methodology. Hypnosis is not for the unqualified to be performing. It belongs with credible, degreed medical personnel who know the intricacies involved with the procedure. More harm is being done to the alleged victim than good when unqualified people perform the regression. The victim is often left with the trauma of the contact, and cannot effectively deal with it. It must be treated as a medical problem. As Vallee states about unqualified hypnotists dealing with victims: "It is unprofessional and unethical." With this he sharply criticizes Dr. Edith Fiore, who took a course on hypnosis during a weekend and began to regress abductees the following Monday morning. The question comes down to: Are we interested in getting to the bottom of this problem, or are we more concerned with the sensational aspect of it? If the answer is the former, than we must begin to police our own backyard and change the direction of things. The data pool is so polluted and corrupt with information that has been arrived at with faulty investigative methods, that we are drawing false conclusions about what UFOs really represent. We must have an open mind. But, we also must employ a methodology that is akin to forensic investigative methods. In this respect, we will make substantial progress, and with the data that is collected in this fashion, be able to construct theoretical models which hold some hope for the answer. ParaNet has reprinted the entire interview with Jacques Vallee. We invite your discussion and comments. ================================================================= This article was reprinted from FATE Magazine, Vol. 44, No. 7, Issue 496, July 1991. (C) 1991 Llewellyn Worldwide, Ltd. Subscriptions: $22.95/yr. to: P.O. Box 1940, 170 Future Way Marion OH 43305-1940 ================================================================= AN INTERVIEW WITH JACQUES VALLEE BY George W. Earley In 1980, Jacques Vallee "disappeared" from organized ufology. The author of several ground-breaking (and often controversial) UFO books, a one-time associate of (and co-author with) the late Dr. J. Allen Hynek, vanished almost as quickly and quietly as a UFO itself. Almost a decade would pass before Vallee reappeared; when he did, he aroused even more controversy than he had in the 1970s. Vallee's reappearance was signaled by publication of two books: Dimensions (Ballantine; 1989) sought to show that the phenomenon we call UFOs has been with humanity throughout-and likely even before recorded history. His second book, Confrontations (Ballantine; 1990), chastised ufologists as scientifically inept investigators, detailed the in-depth and hands on investigations (many of them done outside the U.S.) he undertook during the 1980s, and expressed his strong belief that UFOs and their allegedly attendant beings were likely not extraterrestrial, but interdimensional forms. I caught up with him in Portand, Oregon, several months ago, and between his early morning appearance on a local TV show and a press conference, the following tape recorded conversation ensued. Earley: I saw the program on TV this morning and you mentioned the Costa Rica photograph. I looked at the one in Confrontations and the analysis of it and it still seems inconclusive. What do you feel we need to have for a photo to be thoroughly acceptable not only to the scientific community but to the media and the public? Vallee: Well, in this case we are taking the analysis step by step. We are purposely very careful, not making any claims that we can't prove as we go along. The first thing that was done was to work from a 2nd generation negative that I brought back from Costa Rica. Dick Haines1 and I published an initial article in the Journal of Scientific Exploration.2 When that article was refereed and reviewed, a couple of referees raised questions about what the image could be and what artifacts could have caused it. Now we have the original negative which I have succeeded in getting out of Costa Rica. As you know, it is a photograph taken by a mapping aircraft of the government of Costa Rica and it belongs to the government. What I have now is the original uncut negative, the frame that shows the object, the frame before and the frame after, taken at 20 second intervals. We have looked at it, magnified it, printed it with different densities, and so on. That eliminates all the claims of possible artifacts. We know this is not a double exposure, we know this is not a fine particle trapped in the film...this is a real image. It is a large image. The next step is to digitize it-we do not have access to such a place here [in America] but I know people in France who can do it, with superb facilities for computer photo analysis. We are waiting for them to digitize the frames and to do enhancement and comparisons of one frame to the next. Earley: I'll be interested in hearing the results of their work. Now, during your TV appearance today, just before and after each commercial break, the station used some of those controversial saucer photos taken in Switzerland by Edward Meier. Has anyone analyzed them? I know there have been a couple of books about him but I don't believe his claims have ever been seriously examined. Vallee: In the case of Meier, the negatives have never been available, to my knowledge. Without the negatives, one can do nothing. So it goes back to a question of belief. I am very, very skeptical of the Meier case. I've been to his place in Switzerland. Nobody can tell me this is an average Swiss farmer...[chuckles]...the man has led an extremely interesting life. The photographs themselves are not convincing. No one will be able to tell for sure until we can work from the negatives and the negatives have never been available. And there's no good reason for withholding them. In a situation where someone has had a genuine experience, there should be full disclosure. There is no reason to hide anything. Earley: I agree. I would also note that the space beings he says he's meeting with are more like those described by George Adamski in the 1950s than the beings that are reported today. I don't know how you feel about this but it raises a warning flag for me. Vallee: Yes. And the place...I was there last summer [1989]. The place is run like a cult. Visitors are screened by members of his group. He is not at all living in poverty, getting up at sunup to work in the fields. He has a large house, with the flag of his organization in front of it, a guest book which has been signed by every TV station in Japan which has come through there. There is a satellite antenna to pick up foreign television broadcasts...this is an organized cult. It is not just the average farmer who has happened to see UFOs. GULF BREEZE Earley: Very interesting. Have you talked with Dr. Bruce Maccabee about the Gulf Breeze case? Vallee: Yes I have. And I respect Dr. Maccabee, he's a good scientist. I've looked at the photographs, spent two to three hours with him in Washington. I should qualify this -- I don't like to talk about cases I have not investigated myself. I have not gone to Gulf Breeze purposely, I am not trying to investigate it. As you know from my book, I put the highest priority on cases that have not been reported and cases that are not big media cases with fanfare...those are the cases where I can achieve something within my limitations, where I can get somewhere. I like the cases that have been very quiet or where interest has disappeared over the years. Then I can go to the site and meet the people and be seriously involved and this is certainly not the case in Gulf Breeze. Now on the technical questions I have about Gulf Breeze, I've never gotten an answer. One question is: Why don't we have a spectrum of the illumination? The object appeared again and again and again; it appeared often enough that the witness could be supplied with a camera that had four different lenses on it. Well, it would be a simple thing to sacrifice one of the lenses and put a [diffraction] grating in front of the objective [lens] and get a spectrum and then we would know once and for all if it's a good old 200-watt Sylvania light bulb in there or if it is something unknown to physics. At least we would know that. From the photographs you can't tell. Another thing that is very, very disturbing is that, as you know, the witness, Ed Walters, has a (criminal) record. Well, that is neither here nor there -- people with records see UFOs just like people with no records. But that does have an influence on the way one would analyze a sighting. And the fact that he has a record is not disclosed in the book. And I think that's wrong! I feel there should be full disclosure. Earley: There was a vague mention of an "indiscretion" or something like that. I would note that in a recent issue of Jim Moseley's Saucer Smear newsletter 3, Walters writes that because of "my reputation as a responsible business man and community leader" he has been granted "a Full Pardon" by Florida Governor Bob Martinez. Of course that doesn't take away the guilt of what he did...I know Phil Klass loves to get into things like that. He pointed out that Travis Walton had also been charged with forgery... Vallee: I think that's relevant and it should always be disclosed. There should be no question in disclosing it. The fact that in this case there is no full disclosure, that the book represented him as a pillar of the community, I find that wrong. Earley: I think the pardon came after the book was published. Perhaps it will be put in the 2nd edition... I'd like to talk about witness harassment and ridicule. You mentioned this topic in your book; I believe in one instance you wrote of "vandalism." Was this to a victim's home or car? Vallee: If you remember, there were several cases like this. There was a policeman in the Midwest, Herbert Schirmer, who suffered from harassment. Even in the case of Lonnie Zamora, he was harassed and had to leave the police department. The kids, when he tried to arrest them in Socorro [New Mexico], would say "Why are you after me? Look at that flying saucer over there. It's going faster than I am. Why don't you arrest it and leave me alone?" And in the famous case in Michigan, the "swamp gas" case, the witness's house was pelted with beer bottles and Coke bottles and cans...jsut the reaction of the friendly local community. Earley: And the police chief in Alabama I think it was, who took the picture of an alleged entity...Greehaw, was it? I think he resigned because of the hassles he had. Have any of your fellow scientists done any sociological studies as to why there should be this reaction to UFO reports? Vallee: Not any formal studies. It is a normal human reaction in a way; there is a reaction of laughter to relieve tension and the fear of the unknown. It's nice to be able to laugh at it and it makes you look smart. It is a normal reaction by people who don't want to be bothered by such things. I don't know what it will take for people to grow up and recognize this phenomenon as something very important. I hope that my book will be a contribution in that direction. Among my colleagues it has started to have that effect. After reading the book they understand that this is obviously not just a bunch of uneducated people in the countryside sitting by the river and watching flying saucers come by... Earley: So you're getting a positive reaction from your colleagues in the United States as well as in France? Vallee: Absolutely. COSMIC IMPLICATIONS Earley: That's encouraging. Because what it gets down to is how do we develop a proof that will allow people to take this seriously...why are people ignoring the, shall we say, "cosmic" implications of the UFO phenomenon? Vallee: Well, you know, the people who are interested in the UFO phenomenon...we've been guilty of pushing the extraterrestrial theory to the exclusion of everything else. The word from many people in the public and also in the scientific community is -- either UFOs don't exist and it is all illusions and mistakes and hoaxes and so forth, or we are being visited by beings from outer space. It seems to be either one or the other. Well, it doesn't have to be one or the other. What I find is that people start paying attention when you tell them "Hey, of course it could be aliens or a form of intelligence from outer space, but it could be other things too!" Then they start to want to know more, they start thinking...before they had to decide between not believing the witnesses or agreeing that we were being visited by aliens. People have reacted negatively to that narrow choice. Scientists have certainly reacted negatively to it. They say "Oh yeah? If they are space aliens, how and why do they come here?" I had that reaction yesterday at a radio station in Seattle. "Why do they do these absurd things people say they do? Why do they look like us?" We have to deal with the fact that while this phenomenon is very complex, it does not have to be extraterrestrial necessarily. That opens up many other hypotheses including interdimensionality, which is now mainstream physics. There are theories about the universe having more than four dimensions, and to me the UFO phenomenon is interesting to the extent that it is forcing us to ask those questions and to test some of those new and exciting theories. When you say that, scientists become interested once again because it means that the UFO problem is not a closed system anymore. What has surprised me is that when you start proposing such ideas, the people who react the most negatively, not to say venomously, are not the skeptics but the people in the UFO community themselves. I have been astonished by this violent reaction and you may have seen the comments of Budd Hopkins and of Jerry Clark4 calling me a flake for opening up these possibilities. I've argued before, as you know, with Donald Menzel and I've argued with Philip Klass, yet I've never experienced such polemics. Mind you, I don't mind the polemics. I'm not particularly looking for it, but if it happens, it happens. Yet I've never encountered the kind of vitriolic reaction I have with Jerry Clark, which was totally uncalled for. It just came out of nowhere as far as I'm concerned. That taught me an important lesson, though, that I'd not realized before: parochialism within the UFO community itself may be what is preventing us from being heard by the scientific world. Earley: I think that could be a possibility. The "house divided" effect... Vallee: Jerome Clark is reacting almost as if I had questioned something very sacred for him, something that must not be questioned by someone who calls himself a UFO researcher. I'm questioning the dogma that these beings are ETs...yet when I listen to the witnesses, which is what I try to do carefully, they tell me they see objects appearing out of nowhere, and disappearing on the spot. They don't necessarily see things that take off and go up in the sky and go through the atmosphere. In some cases they do, but in many cases they describe objects that seem to have the ability to operate on space-time, to manipulate space-time. Well, if there is a form of consciousness that does that, if there is a technology that does that, then it opens up all kinds of questions that we have never really considered seriously. And from a scientific point of view, number one, it makes a lot more sense. Number two, it is much richer in terms of what we can do with it in our own research. Earley: It is, of course, a regrettable fact that the scientific community, by and large, has rejected the UFO phenomenon out of hand without making any real study of it. I've talked to Isaac Asimov. He speaks of "UFO maniacs" in a recent book5 on the NASA/SETI program, yet he knows nothing of UFOs. When you try to pin him down about his skepticism, he says: "Well, I've devoted enough of my time to this and I have many other things to do." Carl Sagan does the same thing. A very personable man but very glib and shallow in some respects, particularly with regard to the UFO phenomenon. Vallee: They've never taken time to study the cases themselves. All they know about it is what they read in the National Enquirer... Earley: Are you saying that to a large degree you wrote Confrontations for the scientific community and that while you are hoping it will have an impact on the public at large, basically you were trying to speak to your colleagues? Vallee: I'm trying to show that, number one, the data is robust enough that it can be studied scientifically. There is no lack of parameters that are quantifiable, there is no lack of data from technically trained observers. Number two, I am showing that the phenomenon also has important medical implications, physiological implications that should be studied. A lot of attention has recently been placed -- and rightly so -- on the abduction phenomenon. That is fine, but beyond the abduction phenomena there are other types of impacts that should be documented and studied: that includes the medical and physiological impact and I'm trying to call attention to that. ABDUCTIONS AND HYPNOSIS Earley: You mentioned Hopkins' disagreement with your theory as to the possible origin of the aliens -- do you still feel the abduction phenomenon is a real one? Vallee: I've never said otherwise. People have tried to imply that I was rejecting the abduction phenomena and I never have. As you know, both in this book (Confrontations) and in Dimensions, I even talk about abduction cases I've studied. In Confrontations you will find the case of the woman I call "Mrs. Victor" and several other cases. In Happy Camp (California), for example, there was an abduction case, among many other things. In some cases I have studied those incidents whit the help of hypnotists. But I surely would not do the hypnosis myself as some abductionists so. As I have said before, and I will say it at every occasion, this is unethical and unscientific. What they (the abduction hypnotists) are getting is not the truth. They are wrongly assuming that they are looking at the first level interpretations of what the witnesses have encountered. In many of those hypnosis sessions you will find that leading questions are being used. Besides, there is obvious screening or self-selection on the part of the people who come forward to be hypnotized. There is a framework that is put on the experience itself. The tragedy is that once that kind of framework has been put on the experience, you cannot go back. I've had a number of people who have been studied and hypnotized, people who have been mentioned in some of the more prominent books on abduction, who have come to me saying "my experience was much wider than what is described in the book. The author took things out of context to fit them in his book, but I need help to deal with other aspects of my experience that nobody wanted to look at." I'm not in a position to help these people because they've already been hypnotized a number of times, they are stuck in a certain framework -- I don't know of any way one can go back and rehypnotize these people to get back to the original experience. Which is why in many cases a...psychiatrist using hypnosis in his work will tell you that you have to be very careful and that in many cases hypnosis is not even the proper form of investigation. Earley: That's why I was frankly appalled at Dr. Edith Fiore's book6 because she "learned" hypnosis over one weekend and then began using it the following Monday. And now she thinks she is an abductee after having been hypnotized by Dr. James Harder. I understand Dr. Rima Laibow is saying she's an abductee. It seems to me there is a lot of self-contamination and pollution in this business. But let's take a scenario here. Suppose I came to you and said I've been having disturbing dreams and I've read things in newspapers and magazines about abductions; maybe I've been abducted; you're the first person I've come to about this. What would your step-by-step procedure be with a person who approached you in that manner? Vallee: I think witnesses should only go to trained people. Hypnosis is a complex and dangerous thing; people should only go to clinical psychologists or M.D.s for that kind of work. There is an objection to that, which I have heard from Jerome Clark and other people in the UFO field, saying that many witnesses don't have access to such experts, so Budd Hopkins and Dave Jacobs and others are performing a valuable service when they do it themselves because the medical professionals are not always available to do it. Well, it's obviously a flawed argument. It's like your coming to me and saying "I need a triple [heart] bypass. Would you please take your kitchen knife and do it because my doctor doesn't want to do it?" Well, I'm not qualified to do a triple bypass and I'm not qualified to hypnotize anybody and I'm not going to learn the technique so I can start hypnotizing people left and right. Again, I think this is unethical and unscientific and it doesn't get us to the kind of UFO data we need. In the cases when this situation has happened, what I've done is to go to professionals I know. I would not discuss the case with a witness. I would say, "Look, we are going to get to know each other. You are going to tell me about yourself, but let's not talk about UFOs. Please don't read any more on the subject for a few weeks until we can get you to see someone who is trained in hypnosis." In one case I went to a friend of mine who is a clinical psychologist and he said, "You won't need hypnosis with this person, there are other ways -- there are much more sophisticated techniques that can be used to help people remember what happened to them, under their own control." In certain cases, a "day dreaming" type of technique can help the person remember things at his or her own pace. This could also come through dreams, it could come through drawings...it could take a long time, like months. But this is much more intrusive than saying "You-Are-Now-Under-My-Power-and- You-Will-Remember-the-Time-When-the-Aliens-Took-You..." which is very often what you hear on those ridiculous abduction tapes. Earley: This goes along with a recent book review7 that examined hypnosis and questioned if hypnosis per se actually existed or whether we can, by simply relaxing people, enable them to be in a fully waking state but simply have more access to their memories. Vallee: Again, I'm not a specialist of that field and I'm just relaying what different professionals have told me. They disagree among themselves so I should obviously qualify that. There are obviously some instances where hypnosis is the technique of choice. There is another case in my files in which I went to a...psychiatrist who is trained in hypnosis. He told me he did not want to do it. And his reasons showed the reaction of a true professional. He said "I should not be the one doing it for two reasons. First of all, I do not have enough recent clinical experience with hypnosis. And second, I know you. I've read your books and you're a friend of mine and I know too much about the subject. We should find somebody who is qualified, who knows hypnosis, who has an open mind on UFOs but does not have a personal framework..." It is difficult, but such people exist. Let me mention another case I've worked on recently, the case of a man with a Silicon Valley computer company, who came to me because he remembered seeing some objects over Hawaii. He wanted to be hypnotized because he felt there had been some action of that type (abduction). I took him to a team of two doctors. One is not a psychiatrist but an M.D. who uses hypnosis in his medical practice and the other one is a psychologist who teaches hypnosis to psychologists -- in other words, he is doing research on hypnosis and he teaches it. I asked them what kind of methodology could be used in abduction cases, how would they go about it. they said the only way we should do it is to use the standards of admissibility of hypnosis in court. The state of California has published some very strict guidelines for when hypnosis is admissible in the courts of that state. These guidelines are perfect. They are tailor-made for us in UFO research. Hypnosis is not admissible unless everything is on video tape including the induction phase, so you can see if there are leading questions, you can check if there is full disclosure in the beginning by the hypnotist on what the person is to expect and so on. You should also have physiological measurements; for example, skin response measurements and pulse measurements. You never see this in UFO abduction research. In this case, the two doctors set up a number of instruments that were visible to the cameras. There were two cameras shooting at the same time so you could always see the instruments as you heard the answers; you could have chronological correlation. Another expert could alter say, "that person, doctor, was not hypnotized when he said this. He was not in a state of hypnosis." And different experts could challenge the data and argue. Otherwise what you have is pure garbage, you just have someone saying something on tape. In the case of this man, we found that indeed he remembered a lot about the incident in Hawaii but that the real incident did not happen in Hawaii. It was many years before and there may have been an abduction in the south of the United States when he was in a car with his parents. At that point he became so agitated that the two doctors got him out of hypnosis, which is precisely the point where a ufologist would have jumped up and down and said "Oh goody, let's find out what happened! Did they have big eyes, were they grey, which planet did they take you to..." and so on. But the doctors stopped everything and said "We are not going to do anything further until we have a therapy contract with this man. Obviously this is an extremely traumatic experience for him and if we pick it up again we will pick it up as part of a course of therapy." That is the reaction of true professionals in the business, where you have to worry about possibly causing harm to the patient, and keeping your license and malpractice and everything else -- all the things ufologists treat very lightly. Earley: Have they gone deeper into it? Vallee: We did not pursue it yet. It will be up to him [the subject] to decide if he wants to do more. ANIMAL MUTILATIONS Earley: You wrote some introductory remarks to Linda Moulton Howe's book, An Alien Harvest... Vallee: There are certain parts of the book I would not condone or agree with but it is her right to publish it, and I wanted to support her work on mutilations. I think she is raising a number of important questions the UFO community has been ignoring. Earley: Do you feel that the mutilations are not being done by a normal human agency? Vallee: Ahhh...let me put it this way. I made it clear in Confrontations that I was not going to discuss mutilations even though they were a possibly relevant subject. I've done a number of field studies of mutilation cases on the same level as this in which there was certainly no classic explanation for what had happened to the animals. The witnesses had seen objects in the sky at about the same time the mutilations had happened. That doesn't mean that I can prove a correlation and that's where I stop. I do have an open mind on that. Linda is doing some very good work in that field. More people should be looking at it. I cannot tell you that there is a link between UFOs and mutilations. Earley: Would you be planning to publish your research at some point? Vallee: I don't know. I might. Earley: Thank you very much for your time, Dr. Vallee. I am sure FATE readers will be interested in your remarks. NOTES: 1) Dr. Richard Haines, a retired senior scientist formerly employed by NASA, is the author of several books on UFOs including, Advanced Aerial Devices Reported During the Korean War; L.S.A. Press; 1990 2) "Photo Analysis of an Aerial Disc Over Cost Rica" by Richard F. Haines & Jacques Vallee; Journal of Scientific Exploration, Vol. 3, No. 2, 1989. A response by Haines & Vallee, based on an examination of the original negative, to referee questions, appeared in Vol. 4, N. 1; 1990 as "Photo Analysis of an Aerial Disc Over Costa Rica: New Evidence." 3) Saucer Smear Vol. 37, No. 3, April 30, 1990. 4) "The Thickets of Magonia" by Jerome Clark; International UFO Reporter; Jan.-Feb., 1990. 5) First Contact. ed. by Ben Bova & Byron Preiss; NAL; 1990. 6) Encounters by Edith Fiore, Ph.D.; Doubleday; 1989. 7) "Demystifying Hypnosis" in the Skeptical Inquirer, Vol. 14, No. 3/Spring 1990. the book under review is Hypnosis: The Cognitive-Behavioral Perspective edited by Nicholas P. Spanos & John F. Chaves; Prometheus Books; 1989. Also see They Call It Hypnosis by Robert A. Baker; Prometheus Books; 1990; pages 237- 250, "Hypnosis and Alien Abductions." END PARANET FILE NAME: VALLEE.INT ----------------------------------------------------------------- EOF -- -* Don Allen *- InterNet: dona@bilver.UUCP // Amiga..for the rest of us. USnail: 1818G Landing Dr, Sanford Fl 32771 \X/ Why use anything else? :^) UUCP: ..uunet!tarpit!bilver!vicstoy!dona 0110 0110 0110 Just say NO! Illuminati < MJ-12|Grudge|TLC|CFR|FED|EEC|Bush > WAR = "New World Order" Path: ns-mx!uunet!munnari.oz.au!bruce!goanna!minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au!rxxgre From: rxxgre@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au (Geof Rey Evans) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Mars face. Message-ID: <1991Jun21.082452.6546@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au> Date: 21 Jun 91 08:24:52 GMT References: <1991Jun20.092852.26388@lynx.CS.ORST.EDU> Organization: RMIT Computer Centre, Melbourne Australia. Lines: 69 woodc@jacobs.cs.orst.edu (Major Havok) writes: >In article casper@inqmind.bison.mb.ca (Max Vernon) writes: >>give me a small break! If I were some sort of extraterrestrial I don't >>think I'd leave a signal to another race of beings like ours! Especially if >>I had superior techology. what would be the *POINT*??? You people are just >>dreaming about what you think would be a great discovery. >> >>Ok. Assuming the face is actually a face. What next? Do we start carving >>out a similar face in Earth's surface? I mean really...If a superior race >>actually wanted to contact us, don't you think they'd do it over one of the >>14million or so radio frequencies that we are currently scanning for such >>activity? Or have none of you thought of that? I suppose you would have me >>believe this potential race may not know about radio waves? Or maybe they >>don't communicate in the same way as us? So WHAT! If that was the case why >>would they want communication at all. And why would they want communication >>with a bunch of environment wreckers like ourselves? After contact we'd >>probably invade their territory and build acid rain factories and the >>like!!! > OK, IMAGINE THIS: Aliens come upon this tiny developing planet called >Earth a few thousand years ago. The inhabitants on the planet have no way >of communicating with aliens through radio transmitions so rather than wait >a few thousand years to send radio transmitions, they constructed a huge >face on the nearest planet outward from our own. Perhaps there is no real >'messages' behind the face, maybe all they wanted to do is let us know that >intelligent life does exist elsewhere but they're not trying to tell us >anything just yet. If they were to build a city like structure on the face >of Mars, that would be misleading and might cause us to errorneously believe >that their civilization was located at some time on Mars. A face however >would be perfect! For most people, when they think of intelligent life forms >they immediately think of humans or humanoid beings, so what better way would >there be than to construct a face on a neighboring planet. It has no message >other than to tell us that other beings know of our existance. > A face also can stand the test of time. In the thousands of years that it >would take for us to get to the point that we are at now, their alien race >might have become extinct therefore they would then be unable to send radio >transmittions... they may have anticipated this and prepared for the worst. >A solid humanoid face would likely exist long enough for us to find it though >and realize that we have been watched for quite some time. > > Also, a face constructed on a neighboring planet would ensure that we would >only begin to know about them when we are ready to except their existance. >We have the technological capability now to observe the face on Mars, if we >were to know of the existance of an alien race before we achieved our >current level of technology, then it may have affected our technological >evolution. > I feel a face structure on Mars would be perfect for that type of >communication. >-- >+---------------------------+----------------------------------------------+ >| Chris Wood | "If you can't convince them, confuse them." | >| woodc@jacobs.cs.orst.edu | -unknown | >+---------------------------+----------------------------------------------+ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh dear oh dear oh dear...ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How boring can life on earth be....totally wierd man. Where can I get some of that shit you're smoking ??? -- ___________________________________________________________________ Path: ns-mx!uunet!munnari.oz.au!bruce!goanna!minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au!rxxgre From: rxxgre@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au (Geof Rey Evans) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: CONFESS NOW!! Keywords: Follow-ups to alt.alien.visitors Message-ID: <1991Jun21.082853.6982@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au> Date: 21 Jun 91 08:28:53 GMT References: <1991Jun18.210755.29207@linus.mitre.org> <1991Jun20.025025.22069@eng.ufl.edu> <969@baby.and.nl> <1991Jun20.185301.2701@linus.mitre.org> Organization: RMIT Computer Centre, Melbourne Australia. Lines: 28 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> THEY'RE BAAACK >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- ___________________________________________________________________ Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!dali.cs.montana.edu!decwrl!deccrl!news.crl.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!shodha.enet.dec.com!timpson From: timpson@shodha.enet.dec.com (Steve Timpson) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: CONFESS NOW!! Message-ID: <3435@shodha.enet.dec.com> Date: 21 Jun 91 13:32:01 GMT Sender: news@shodha.enet.dec.com Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Lines: 11 In article <1991Jun20.185301.2701@linus.mitre.org>, andrea@chimera.mitre.org (Andrea Ostensoe) writes... >Don't, don't don't you ever mention this number again!!!!!!!! > >Jos (a very terrified person) > Are you being serious or is ther supposed to be a 8^) face somewhere in the above? Steve Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!unix.cis.pitt.edu!dsinc!netnews.upenn.edu!msuinfo!eecae.ee.msu.edu!grimm From: grimm@eecae.ee.msu.edu (Jerry Michael Grimm) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal,alt.slack,alt.who.is.bob,alt.conspiracy,talk.religion.newage,misc.headlines,misc.misc,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: INFO: Are You A "Star Person"? Take This Test! Keywords: Follow-ups to alt.alien.visitors Message-ID: <1991Jun21.130437.8957@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> Date: 21 Jun 91 13:04:37 GMT References: <1991Jun17.201733.16406@bilver.uucp> Sender: news@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu Organization: Michigan State University Lines: 103 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:1007 alt.paranormal:1923 alt.slack:606 alt.conspiracy:6126 talk.religion.newage:5679 misc.headlines:16796 misc.misc:4642 sci.skeptic:12245 Well, since out good buddy Don has once again cross-posted and tied up tons of bandwidth with obviously un-original stuff, I should do my best to take it in the manner received. So 'Ave At Thee! dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) writes: >The following text comes from the MUFONET BBS (1-901-785-4943): >---Begin Included Text ---------------------------------------------- >Date: 04-19-91 19:43 >From: William Ivey >To: All >Subj: Star People Quiz >Are you a "Star Person?" This quiz is based on a list of >characteristics of people that Brad Steiger seems to think might >have a touch of the star-brush in their background (i.e. alien >genes). The list was found in a 'zine called "Psychic & UFO >Revelations in the LAST DAYS" by Timothy Green Beckley (1980). >(I found a bunch of old UFO stuff at a garage sale. :-) >1. Do you have an unusual blood type? Does purplish count? >2. Do you have a lower than normal body temperature? What is normal? >3. Were you an "unexpected" child? Yep. Sure was. Like the time I was 5 and walked in on my parents in their room and they were making lots of noise and I think I was kind of unexpected but I'm not sure. >4. Do you have an extra vertebrae and lower back problems? I'm sorry, I don't have an extra VERTEBRA in my lower back. Why are extra Vertebras important? More support or something? Are they underwired? What good are bras for the lower back anyway? >5. Do you seem to be hypersensitive to electricity, electromagnetic > force fields? Nope, just work with 'em for a living. BTW, it is ELECTROMAGNETIC FIELDS (force fields, while TECHNICALLY accurate, IMPLIES that a barrier of impenetrable force is created. Should've been Electro- magnetic fields of force.) >6. Do you have unusually sharp hearing and light-sensitive eyes? Eh?? Let me get my glasses. Having trouble seeing this. >7. Did you feel that your mother and father were not your real parents? Did the ZETA GREYS tell you this? >8. Do you complain of feelings of great urgency, like you have only a > short time to complete tasks? All the time. Guess that's what I get for being a grad student :-) >9. Do you have low blood pressure? Oh yes. But also is a sign of a very healthy heart. >10. Do you have chronic sinusitis? Pardon me while I blow by dose. >11. Do you feel that your true ancestors came from another world or > dimension and yearn to go back? I sure miss the Antediluvian sun setting over the spires. >12. Did you have unseen companions as a child? Drop Dead, Phred. >13. Do you have natural talent for art, music, healing or acting? No, but I do have a natural talent for girls named Mary. >14. Do you experience a buzzing or clicking noise in your ears prior to, > during some psychic events? Sure. But you know what I mean, after all, we're psychic. >15. Did you have an unusual experience around the age of five which may > have taken the form of a white light, or a visitation by human-type > beings who gave information and comfort? Does my minister count? Howsabout the cute nurse who helped me after my tonsillectomy. >16. Have you maintained a continuing series of experiences with "angels", > "elves", "masters", or admitted UFO intelligences? No. And do I feel deprived. >17. Do your dreams and/or artwork involve multi-moon environments? Well, I have a copy of a magazine called "Buns". Does this count? >18. Are children and animals attracted to you? Sure. They all love the candy. >19. Do you do your best work at night? Of course. >-* Don Allen *- InterNet: dona@bilver.UUCP // Amiga..for the rest of us. >USnail: 1818G Landing Dr, Sanford Fl 32771 \X/ Why use anything else? :^) >UUCP: ..uunet!tarpit!bilver!vicstoy!dona 0110 0110 0110 Just say NO! >Illuminati < MJ-12|Grudge|TLC|CFR|FED|EEC|Bush > WAR = "New World Order" Yep, there you have it. Guess I must be a space alien. Now if I can only use my ESP to learn to play guitar. Mike "Midnight Starr" Grimm Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!unix.cis.pitt.edu!dsinc!netnews.upenn.edu!msuinfo!eecae.ee.msu.edu!grimm From: grimm@eecae.ee.msu.edu (Jerry Michael Grimm) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal Subject: Re: INFO: OMNI Article On Abductions/Implants Keywords: Follow-ups to alt.alien.visitors Message-ID: <1991Jun21.132052.9099@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> Date: 21 Jun 91 13:20:52 GMT References: <1991Jun17.200458.16318@bilver.uucp> Sender: news@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu Organization: Michigan State University Lines: 39 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:1008 alt.paranormal:1924 dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) writes: >----Begin Included Text --------------------------------------------- >Date: 05-28-91 23:52 >From: John Powell >Subj: OMNI Article: Abductions >From the June 1991 issue of OMNI, (Volume 13, #9, ISSN 0149-8711, OMNI >Publications, 1965 Broadway, New York, NY 10023-5965, $24/yr.) >From the Antimatter section, UFO Update: Can UFO researchers prove that >aliens are tagging and tracking humans with tiny devices in the body or >brain? >"According to UFO abduction expert Budd Hopkins... a number of radiologists >are privately doing MRI scans on people who claim they have been abducted by >aliens -- and that the aliens have inserted devices in their bodies or does this mean that the the poeple have claimed to have stuff stuck in their brain, or does this mean that the radiologists have found stuff. How are these radioulogists. Privately doing MRI scans? What does this mean. "Hi, Dr. Carver. I want to borrow the MRI Magnet/ et. al to take home with me for the weekend" "Sure, Dr. Eatey. But don't forget to recharge the liquid helium chamber when you're done" >brains. But a neurosurgeon advised him that if, as claimed, implants exist >somewhere above the upper nasal passages, then they are near the optic nerve. >In that case, he says, 'it would be very risky for a surgeon to try to get >one out.' What does Hopkins say about the prospect of actually validating >these weird alien implants? 'It'd have devastating societal impact,' he >says. 'I am not looking forward to something like this.'" This I don't understand. Why would it be risky? No more so than a cerebro-spinal crack for tumor exploration. And how would this have devastating societal impact anyway? Mike Grimm Path: ns-mx!uunet!decwrl!pa.dec.com!shodha.enet.dec.com!timpson From: timpson@shodha.enet.dec.com (Steve Timpson) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Questions about PROTECTION Message-ID: <3436@shodha.enet.dec.com> Date: 21 Jun 91 13:34:15 GMT Sender: news@shodha.enet.dec.com Distribution: na Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Lines: 70 In article <1991Jun20.210043.21547@pmafire.inel.gov>, jeffl@servprod.inel.gov (Jeff Later) writes... >1. IS there ANYTHING one can do to protect himself and his family > from becoming victims of an "alien" abduction? Path: shodha.enet.dec.com!timpson From: timpson@shodha.enet.dec.com (Steve Timpson) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Questions about PROTECTION Date: 21 JUN 91 06:34:15 mst Distribution: na Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Keywords: Summary: -Message-Text-Follows- In article <1991Jun20.210043.21547@pmafire.inel.gov>, jeffl@servprod.inel.gov (Jeff Later) writes... >1. IS there ANYTHING one can do to protect himself and his family > from becoming victims of an "alien" abduction? Yes. Line your house and underware with aluminum foil. this keeps the aliens from scan the inside of you house and underware. >2. Is there ANY kind of "security system" that might work > in protecting an individual within the boundaries of his home and auto, > or does the possibility of these intruders having > "multi-dimention capability" make "barriers" or alarm > systems useless? Yes. Line your house and underware with aluminum foil. this keeps the aliens from scan the inside of you house and underware. >3. Can, or should conventional weapons, ie- handguns, rifles, shotguns, be > considered for protection, or are they useless? Yes. conventional weapons help but Aluminum foil will deflect any of there death ray weapons away from you house and wee wee. >4. What about the possibility of other "non-conventional weapons", ie. > sonic, optical, laser, eletrical etc., for protection? Or are we > totally helpless? Aluminum foil man!!! Aluminum foil!!!! >5. Is there ANY way or means one can tell if he or his family or friends > have been victims, or have "implants"? A rectal exam might help. You might find your cranium in there. >6. How can one communicate this great danger to family and friends > without being given the "nutcase" treatment?? It's too late. You are a nut case if you are worried about this stuff. Get a life man. >7. Could it be that the single reason our government has kept this information > from its people for so long, is that they are totally HELPLESS > in protecting us? And that the only "bargaining chip" our government has > with the alien intruders is the "loaded gun to the head" type, ie. > "if you interfere too much, or invade, we will Nuke ourselves, and you > with us"???? Man there has to be a smile face around here somewhere. This guy can't be for real. I have a question. What planet are you from? >8. Is there ANY hope, or is it in God's hands at this point? Aluminum foil man!!!! Aluminum Foil!!! Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!van-bc!ubc-cs!alberta!herald.usask.ca!ccu.umanitoba.ca!bison!sys6626!inqmind!themax!system From: system@themax.bison.mb.ca (Max Vernon) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Mars face. Message-ID: Date: 20 Jun 91 19:25:04 GMT References: <1991Jun20.092852.26388@lynx.CS.ORST.EDU> Organization: The Max BBS, private! Lines: 52 > > A face also can stand the test of time. In the thousands of years that it > would take for us to get to the point that we are at now, their alien race > might have become extinct therefore they would then be unable to send radio > transmittions... they may have anticipated this and prepared for the worst. > A solid humanoid face would likely exist long enough for us to find it though > and realize that we have been watched for quite some time. > > Also, a face constructed on a neighboring planet would ensure that we would > only begin to know about them when we are ready to except their existance. > We have the technological capability now to observe the face on Mars, if we > were to know of the existance of an alien race before we achieved our > current level of technology, then it may have affected our technological > evolution. > > I feel a face structure on Mars would be perfect for that type of > communication. > > -- > +---------------------------+----------------------------------------------+ > | Chris Wood | "If you can't convince them, confuse them." | > | woodc@jacobs.cs.orst.edu | -unknown | > +---------------------------+----------------------------------------------+ Ok, Ok, so maybe you have a point. They could have become extinct, and they could have had the foresight to see this coming, and they could have built a face on the surface of our closest planetary neighbor, BUT I have a hard time believing this! For one thing, assuming this potential race is somewhat similar in intelligence to us (for the sake of argument!), why would they have allowed themselves to become extinct...indeed how would they have known about their impending destruction? Either way, this is all speculation, and I believe if an extraterrestrial race of even mild intelligence wanted to leave us a message of ANY sort, I believe they would do it in a way that would leave no doubt about their existence. Could you imagine the time and expense they would have to endure whilst making this so-called "face"? And then when we do find this "Face" we don't quite know what to make of it! It's far to complex a medium of communication to use. Why wouldn't they leave something a little more profound, like maybe a model of a human skeleton, complete with very visible structures. (ie structures that can be seen from ANY direction). This is just too much imporbability for me, I think we must just wait and see if anything else comes along which offers a little more proof. Later, Max. _____________________________________________________________________________ Themax BBS, experimental | themax.bison.mb.ca | 8-1462 Pembina Hwy, Wpg., MB. | R3T 2C3 Canada | Path: ns-mx!uunet!infonode!hychejw From: hychejw@infonode.ingr.com (Jeff W. Hyche) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: INFO: Application To Join C.A.U.S. Keywords: Follow-ups to alt.alien.visitors Message-ID: <1991Jun21.194944.1584@infonode.ingr.com> Date: 21 Jun 91 19:49:44 GMT References: <1991Jun17.190337.15400@bilver.uucp> <1991Jun19.133125.29564@bilver.uucp> <1991Jun20.142939.388@cbfsb.att.com> Distribution: na Organization: Intergraph Corp. Huntsville, AL Lines: 29 marz@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (martin.zam) writes: >> -* Don Allen *- InterNet: dona@bilver.UUCP // Amiga..for the rest of us. >> USnail: 1818G Landing Dr, Sanford Fl 32771 \X/ Why use anything else? :^) >> UUCP: ..uunet!tarpit!bilver!vicstoy!dona 0110 0110 0110 Just say NO! >> Illuminati < MJ-12|Grudge|TLC|CFR|FED|EEC|Bush > WAR = "New World Order" First of all, nice computer. >Don, >I for one look forward to such information being made available to me. >Please stand your ground with people like this, and help the rest of us >broaden our personal horizons. Just because this guy doesn't have an >open mind, and is therefore NOT the sort to join any sort of organization >like the one you mentioned, doesn't mean that the rest of us are not >interested. I applaud your original effort and your public reply. > Keep em coming Don, Agree. I've collected all of Dons postings sence I fell into this newsgroup. I don't all ways agree with what they are saying but I do enjoy reading them and they do make me think. Keep em coming. -- // Jeff Hyche There can be only one! \\ // Usenet: hychejw@infonode.ingr.com \X/ Freenet: ap255@po.CWRU.Edu Path: ns-mx!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!rice!uw-beaver!cornell!rochester!pt.cs.cmu.edu!o.gp.cs.cmu.edu!andrew.cmu.edu!wt0b+ From: wt0b+@andrew.cmu.edu (William Henry Timmins) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Questions about PROTECTION Message-ID: Date: 21 Jun 91 20:54:14 GMT References: <1991Jun20.210043.21547@pmafire.inel.gov> Distribution: na Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA Lines: 10 In-Reply-To: <1991Jun20.210043.21547@pmafire.inel.gov> This board is always a good pick me up. Whenever I feel ground down by life, outclassed by everyone around me, all I have to do is look in hear... and laugh, laugh, laugh. -Me [Pooh Bear incarnate.] Path: ns-mx!uunet!littlei!intelhf!agora!robart From: robart@agora.rain.com (Barton) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism.d,misc.headlines,alt.stupidity Subject: Advertising (was: Re: INFO: Application To Join C.A.U.S.) Summary: misuse Keywords: Don, Allen Message-ID: <1991Jun22.090530.8469@agora.rain.com> Date: 22 Jun 91 09:05:30 GMT Sender: robart@agora.rain.com (Robert Barton) Organization: Agora Lines: 60 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:1013 alt.paranormal:1938 alt.conspiracy:6132 alt.activism.d:1049 misc.headlines:16805 alt.stupidity:2293 [ talk.religion.newage and misc.misc removed from Newsgroups line since they were inappropriate ] In article <1991Jun19.133125.29564@bilver.uucp> dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) writes: >In article <1991Jun18.132817.16937@agora.rain.com> robart@agora.rain.com (Robert Barton) writes: >> >> [ subscription advertisement from Don Allen deleted ] >> >> Why are you posting these commercial advertisements? >The posting is for --->> INFORMATIONAL PUPOSES [sic] ONLY <<--- If you're only trying to obtain information such as someone's name, address, phone number, etc, then why ask for money? >Since you have taken it upon *YOURSELF* to be the resident NET POLICE >then you might as well understand that I certainly will NOT be intimidated >by witless ASSHOLES such as yourself. You no doubt have great experience with such people, having lived with one your entire life. >You can either slink back into you HOLE or under your ROCK or put my NAME >in your KILL FILE. >Either way, I will NOT be affected at ALL by your comments.. Does this mean that you won't be sending me numerous copies of those large, worthless files from somebody's BBS, like you did last time? >IF you have anything at all to say, then say it here in PUBLIC instead of >resorting to your *usual* snide comments to me in email. Obviously what I said (<1991Jun18.132817.16937@agora.rain.com>) was public; otherwise you wouldn't be able to quote my public message, as you did above. >IF I have "offended" anyone's sense of what is "politically correct" then >I do hereby apologize PUBLICALLY [sic]. Obviously it had nothing to do with any political views, but with misuse of discussion groups for commercial purposes. >ARF or Ralph Winston or Jim Sanders I'm not. No, but you are Don Allen. >The LAST time I looked, FREE SPEECH is still available in this country >and you NET POLICE can go FRIG YOURSELVES SILLY. You are confusing disagreement with censorship. This is a common error. Hopefully you will outgrow it. >IF I have done _anything_ "wrong" then let a NET SYSADMIN leave me email and >I will abide by his comments...otherwise you NET POLICE can shut the F**k up. Nets and systems are two different things. >_END OF DIATRIBE_ [ long signature deleted ] Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!ukc!slxsys!ibmpcug!demon!news From: printf@cix.compulink.co.uk (Ian Stirling) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: MARS FACE Message-ID: <1991Jun23.014250.5222@demon.co.uk> Date: 23 Jun 91 01:42:50 GMT Sender: news@demon.co.uk (C-News Owner) Reply-To: Ian Stirling Organization: Gated to News by demon.co.uk Lines: 42 >For one thing, assuming this potential race is somewhat similar in >intelligence to us (for the sake of argument!), why would they have >allowed themselves to become extinct...indeed how would they have >known about their impending destruction? Either way, this is all >speculation, and I believe if an extraterrestrial race of even mild >intelligence wanted to leave us a message of ANY sort, I believe they >would do it in a way that would leave no doubt about their existence. >Could you imagine the time and expense they would have to endure >whilst making this so-called "face"? And then when we do find this >"Face" we don't quite know what to make of it! It's far to complex a >medium of communication to use. Why wouldn't they leave something a >little more profound, like maybe a model of a human skeleton, >complete with very visible structures. (ie structures that can be >seen from ANY direction). This is just too much imporbability for me, >I think we must just wait and see if anything else comes along which >offers a little more proof. > >Later, Max. > >_____________________________________________________________________________- >Themax BBS, experimental | themax.bison.mb.ca > | > | 8-1462 Pembina Hwy, Wpg., MB. > | > | >R3T 2C3 Canada | > Or maybe something simple,like a radio message on many frequencys going off every hundred years. Mail to either |PLEASE do not send large Printf%cix@ukc.ac.uk |(>20K)mail messages as Printf@cix.compulink.co |I get charged for them. Printf@cix.uucp | one of these may work | Path: ns-mx!uunet!lll-winken!iggy.GW.Vitalink.COM!widener!ukma!psuvax1!psuvm!sml108 From: SML108@psuvm.psu.edu (Scott the Great) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: INFO: How to join with aliens Message-ID: <91174.152715SML108@psuvm.psu.edu> Date: 23 Jun 91 19:27:15 GMT Organization: Penn State University Lines: 95 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This information may be vital to your continued survival. With the approach of the 7-11, the truth must be known before it is too late. We are not alone! They are watching me at this very minute. MAKE THE PAIN GO AWAY! As I do not have a great amount of time available to pursue follow-ups exclusively because I am being pursued by the men in black, donations should be sent as often as possible! --------------------------------------------------------------------- The following text comes from the MUFFINHEAD BS (1-555-UFO-REAL): ---Begin Included Text ---------------------------------------------- D.U.F.U.S DUdes For Ufo Sex DUFUS was created in 1978 to battle what we perceive as unjustified avoidance by mainstream society of our tremendous sexual powers. Through the use of Magno-Electronic Aerial Tele-Microwave Array Radio Transmitters, we have managed to establish carnal relations with some of the most beautiful creatures inhabiting the Western Spiral Arm. Many of our encounters are published in our newsletter "BIG BANG", which appeared between May 1978 and January 1982. Because of the AIDS epidemic, the newsletter has been inactive for almost 3 years, but it is now being revived as a result of extraordinary interest generated by the movies "My Stepmother is an Alien", "Communion", and the recent "My Favorite Martian" view-athons sweeping the country. For the time being, BIG BANG new series will appear soon as a quarterly newsletter of at least four pages, double-column with all the alien center- folds we can cram into it. Subscriptions will be $10.00 per year ($15.00 foreign subscriptions). Most of the subscription cost will be used to buy contraceptives, locate the best make-out spots in the known universe, and pay for travel expenses to nearby stars. Special seminars will be given periodically to train our readers how to contact interstellar love friends. With your help, DUFUS will restore our position of sexual mastery of the cosmos. There is strength in our members so let our united voices be heard! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dear DUFUS, I would like to help get us all laid by real heavenly bodies! Please enroll me for a year's subscription to BIG BANG. NAME ________________________________________________________________________ ADDRESS _____________________________________________________________________ CITY ___________________________ STATE ____________________ ZIPPER _________ SIZE ___________________________ POSITIONS ___________________________ MC/VISA NUMBER ________________________________________________________ OTHER CREDIT CARD NUMBERS _____________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________ Make checks or money orders payable to and mail to: D.U.F.U.S. P.O. BOX 69 WALLA-WALLA, WI 19409 ______________________________________________________________________________ EOF -- -* Duh Alien *- InterNet: donut@dunkin.com // CBM-2000..for the rest of us. USnail: 3rd Cluster, Spiral Arm, Earth \X// Why use anything else? >:^) UUCP: ..uunet!uufo!mothership!me 0110 0110 0110 Just say BEEP! Illuminati < Randi|Consumer's Union|PTA|YMCA|USDA|Mr. Ed > WAR = PEACE Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!unido!ztivax!sof3 From: sof3@ztivax.UUCP (Walter Meyer) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space Subject: Re: Mars Observer Left without me !! Message-ID: <5662@ztivax.UUCP> Date: 24 Jun 91 08:10:47 GMT References: <1991Jun6.181521.18082@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov> Organization: Siemens AG, Munich, W-Germany Lines: 29 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:1016 sci.space:18823 carlos@beowulf.JPL.NASA.GOV (Carlos Carrion) writes: } jenkins@jpl-devvax.JPL.NASA.GOV (Steve Jenkins) writes: } >dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) writes: } >>...taken by Viking 1 in 1976. Hoagland believes the Mars observer } >>spacecraft was deployed by the Space Shuttle "Atlantis" on } >>mission STS-38. } > } >Wow! I guess we better get busy with the Mars Observer telemetry } >system. It's not scheduled for ground testing until later this year. } > } Wait Up!! I've only just released the Mars Orbit Insertion } Sequence to the Flight Team, and MO has been launched already (and } by the Shuttle!) ?? Carlos! Steve! Like dudes, get it together! Don Allen is an obvious genius who REALLY knows these things. I mean, we must have been out to lunch regarding Phobos, right!?! So, maybe JPL could save a whole lot of money by hiring Don Allen to contact the aliens and just TELL us all about the other planets. Then we could just go to the beach... I was thinking about hacking TASS to support author kill like RN, but on second thought, with dona in this group I don't need the NatEnq for comedy! David Smyth Object X Guru Reliable email address coming soon! Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!emory!att!att!dptg!sodium!mcripps From: mcripps@sodium.att.com (16AW20000[ehs]-Mike Cripps(HO0000)T100) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Mars face. Message-ID: <1991Jun24.023114.8269@sodium.att.com> Date: 24 Jun 91 02:31:14 GMT References: <1991Jun20.092852.26388@lynx.CS.ORST.EDU> Organization: AT&T BL Middletown/Lincroft NJ USA Lines: 24 In article , system@themax.bison.mb.ca (Max Vernon) writes: > > > Either way, this is all speculation, and I believe > if an extraterrestrial race of even mild intelligence wanted to leave us a > message of ANY sort, I believe they would do it in a way that would leave no > doubt about their existence. I agree. Why do a face, when you could have put 40 foot high letters of fire ( :-) ) on Mars saying "Kilroy was here" (so to speak). This assumes that the aliens had writing, but that's probably not that great of an assumption. Even if we couldn't read the writing, It ought to be obvious. Or why not a bunch of prime numbers? Maybe boulders or pits or something arranged in groups of prime numbers. Seems to me a stylized face is a pretty vague way to communicate... BTW--I must say that the .gif I have of the Mars face doesn't look very much like a face to me at all. Quite honestly, I think one of us here is hallucinating, and it's not me :-) Mike Cripps AT&T or NCR, take your pick... mcripps@sodium.att.com Path: ns-mx!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!utgpu!watserv1!watdragon!watyew!jdnicoll From: jdnicoll@watyew.uwaterloo.ca (James Davis Nicoll) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Mars face. Message-ID: <1991Jun24.184204.16366@watdragon.waterloo.edu> Date: 24 Jun 91 18:42:04 GMT References: <1991Jun20.092852.26388@lynx.CS.ORST.EDU> <1991Jun24.023114.8269@sodium.att.com> Sender: news@watdragon.waterloo.edu (News Owner) Organization: University of Waterloo Lines: 12 Bias Alert: I'd be very surprised if the Mars face is a product of intelligence, aside from that of the viewers. If *I* were going to build a durable passive structure to indicate my passing by, and I had spaceflight, I'd put the sucker on the Moon, not Mars. Erosion is lots slower on the Moon. If I wanted to make seeing it a bit harder, I'd put it on farside, or in a medium requiring high tech to see (A portrait in magnetic anomolies or long-half life radioactives, perhaps). James Nicoll Path: ns-mx!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!rice!uw-beaver!cornell!rochester!pt.cs.cmu.edu!o.gp.cs.cmu.edu!andrew.cmu.edu!wt0b+ From: wt0b+@andrew.cmu.edu (William Henry Timmins) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Mars face. Message-ID: Date: 24 Jun 91 20:16:16 GMT References: <1991Jun20.092852.26388@lynx.CS.ORST.EDU> , <1991Jun24.023114.8269@sodium.att.com> Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA Lines: 11 In-Reply-To: <1991Jun24.023114.8269@sodium.att.com> Well, if the aliens were here as little as 3000 years ago, they could have learned one of the major languages and written a message in big letters (hieroglyphics?) on the surface... Sure, we might not be able to read it right away, but it would DEFINATELY be a message... First sentence should be "We aren't Egyptians" just to clear up confusion... -Me [Pooh Bear incarnate.] Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!paperboy!hsdndev!dartvax!mars!maine.maine.edu!io10081 From: IO10081@MAINE.MAINE.EDU (The Xanadian) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Lost my password...(IO00671) Message-ID: <91176.113041IO10081@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> Date: 25 Jun 91 15:30:41 GMT Organization: University of Maine System Lines: 14 I was talking with someone on another account (this is a friend's account). I last sent him a letter and have been waiting for a reply. However, whether or not I received a letter from him or not, I cannot tell, since I forgot my password (I changed it recently). I will not be able to find it out until September. My original account # was IO00671 (The Doctor). I hope that the person I was talking to, if he is reading this (I dont remember his address either... boy what a memory!) would forward all letters to this address until September. I have proof that I was the same person he sent the first letter to. Please respond by email. Thank you. Path: ns-mx!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!lll-winken!iggy.GW.Vitalink.COM!widener!ukma!psuvax1!hsdndev!dartvax!mars!maine.maine.edu!umasp From: UMASP@MAINE.MAINE.EDU Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Mars face. Message-ID: <91177.011843UMASP@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> Date: 26 Jun 91 05:18:43 GMT References: <1991Jun20.092852.26388@lynx.CS.ORST.EDU> <1991Jun24.023114.8269@sodium.att.com> Organization: University of Maine System Lines: 20 In article <1991Jun24.023114.8269@sodium.att.com>, mcripps@sodium.att.com (16AW20000[ehs]-Mike Cripps(HO0000)T100) says: > {Stuff deleted} > >BTW--I must say that the .gif I have of the Mars face doesn't look very >much like a face to me at all. Quite honestly, I think one of us here >is hallucinating, and it's not me :-) > >Mike Cripps >AT&T or NCR, take your pick... >mcripps@sodium.att.com I have the mars face gif also. To me it looks like one of the Cybermen from the Dr Who series. Am I right, or what? George Newell umasp@maine.maine.edu Path: ns-mx!uunet!decwrl!deccrl!news.crl.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!shodha.enet.dec.com!timpson From: timpson@shodha.enet.dec.com (Steve Timpson) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Mars face. Message-ID: <3454@shodha.enet.dec.com> Date: 26 Jun 91 13:33:37 GMT Sender: news@shodha.enet.dec.com Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Lines: 12 In article <91177.011843UMASP@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>, UMASP@MAINE.MAINE.EDU writes... > >I have the mars face gif also. To me it looks like one of >the Cybermen from the Dr Who series. Am I right, or what? > >George Newell >umasp@maine.maine.edu OH MY GOD!!!!! Aluminum Foil I need More Aluminum Foil!!! Steve 8^) Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!linac!att!att!fang!tarpit!bilver!dona From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Questions about PROTECTION Message-ID: <1991Jun22.160815.22137@bilver.uucp> Date: 22 Jun 91 16:08:15 GMT References: <1991Jun20.210043.21547@pmafire.inel.gov> <1991Jun20.230539.19833@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> Distribution: na Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL Lines: 105 In article <1991Jun20.230539.19833@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> anachem@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (mark s gilstrap) writes: >In article <1991Jun20.210043.21547@pmafire.inel.gov> jeffl@servprod.inel.gov (Jeff Later) writes: >> >>While there is a great deal of information regarding UFO abductions, victims >>and types of dangers associated with "visitors/intruders", >>I have not found a single source for information regarding PERSONAL DEFENCE! >>I have tried contacting a few of the more "knowledgeable" and "serious" >>members of this group regarding the following questions, to no avail. >>Perhaps they would feel more inclined to respond in a more "public forum". >> Pardon me folks for a "quickie" here: ****************************************************************** It's hard to respond to you Jeff, when I keep getting mail bounces. Don't automatically assume that you are getting a brush-off; there's more mundane explanations such as listed above :-) My mailer (Elm) does NOT recognize --->> jeffl@servprod.inel.gov << --- as a -valid- address. Perhaps you need to check into that on your end. *meanwhile back to our normally scheduled follow-up*************** >>1. IS there ANYTHING one can do to protect himself and his family >> from becoming victims of an "alien" abduction? >> > This may be a very unpopular viewpoint. [ Many lines deleted ] > If you are trully wanting to overcome the damage and threats >of these psychic visitations, and if you trully believe the words you >say, this prayer will be effective. You need no other protection than to >get yourself out of such deceptions and into the life of grace in the [ Many more lines deleted ] >> > You are totally helpless, yourself. But there is protection > available. > >>5. Is there ANY way or means one can tell if he or his family or friends >> have been victims, or have "implants"? >> > There are many signs and manifestations of the psychic distur- > bances one may experience. The discernment of an experienced > monastic or priest are to be preferred over our often deceived > opinions. > I left the relevant quoted sections as I believe they are good advice. This is also a controversial viewpoint :-) It's my opinion that we are in the "last days" so we can expect many more visitations from the skies, some of these "visits" are definately not from beings that have our best interests at heart (to put it mildly). It's also my opinion that these "watchers"/Nephilim/Greys are indeed physical manifestations of the "fallen" angels. If you will note, when reading materials pertaining to cattle mutilations,human abductions, that these "beings" do not seem to exhibit any emotion towards our species which is beneficial. To the contrary, we are like lab rats to them (apparently) and they do not seem to understand that it is NOT "alright" to terrorize human beings by their abductions and "examinations". This subject is both a delicate and complex at the same time. Most people haven't been properly made aware that EBE (Extra-terrestrial Biological Entities..ie.."aliens") have been visiting our shining orb and our wonderfully paranoid and (sometimes) overly protective,secretive GOVT hasn't been ANY help at all. Contrast *our* GOVT's clammed-up attitude about UFO's in general with that of Belgium, or the Soviet Union. I'll believe that "swamp gas" are UFO's the day I believe that Meaden's "plasma vortex theory" or other meteorological nonsense creates the wonderfully intelligent crop circle patterns, which is to say, that *those* (IMHO) "explanations" are absolute rubbish. I am not exactly what you would call a rank and file "religious" person. I DO, however have strong beliefs in GOD and in the LIGHT in general. I see nothing at all wrong with developing such attitudes as a form of protective armor which can be utilized against any lower-vibrational creatures such as the greys,etc..I am aware of some cases where others who were being terrorized by the greys/watchers *did* utilize such means and the EBE's actually FLED the scene. Conventional means of protection (guns,etc) would be rendered useless by an alien technology. In "Communion", Whitley Strieber had an elaborate alarm setup in his upstate NY residence. It *didn't* prevent nor go off when the aliens came to get him. I will scout my files for so more info on this topic. Don -- -* Don Allen *- InterNet: dona@bilver.UUCP // Amiga..for the rest of us. USnail: 1818G Landing Dr, Sanford Fl 32771 \X/ Why use anything else? :^) UUCP: ..uunet!tarpit!bilver!vicstoy!dona 0110 0110 0110 Just say NO! Illuminati < MJ-12|Grudge|TLC|CFR|FED|EEC|Bush > WAR = "New World Order" Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ul'v From: ul'v@near.mars.edu (ul'v armaaten) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Time for another dinner at Ken's Message-ID: <1991Jun26.192359.18757@near.mars.edu> Date: 26 Jun 91 19:30:39 GMT Organization: Watn psn Lines: 31 Boy was Mom pissed at me last year. She yanked my computer access for a whole orbit of the planet you call Jupiter. Grounded! Bummer! Just cuz I ran fifteen peoples Marshall Fields cards up to the max. Made me give it all back and do that peace march in Hungary too. Anyway, now I'm off to college, and I've got access to this awesome 17 TeraMIP computer that makes my old 6 GigaMIP computer at home seem like a snail. Mom can't yank my electricity-credits here. NYAH NYAH. Anyway, the reason I'm writing is to tell you all that it's bis'n t' zng, which, loosely translated, means, Spring Break. Totally Awesome! Anyway, so, like, I plan to hit Ken's Pancake House again, cuz it was such a great success last time. The one on El Camino Real, in Silicon Valley. You know the one I'm talking about. The same one as last year. Yeah, well, you'll figure it out. I'll be wearing dark glasses, with a neon orange T-shirt, black spandex biking shorts, brown hair (this week), and a diamond stud in my ear. On the hetero side (this week). If you're interested, drop on by and we'll party, and you can let me know, you know, how my valley dude accent is, like ya know. And then we can bop out to Santa Cruz and do sumpin like surf or ride the roller coaster. Okay? Later daze. BTW guys, you know, the face on Mars, it's like a, what you would call a Senior prank, ya know. Class of (your year) 1932 did it. Cool, huh? Hieroglyphics? Stacking rocks in prime numbered piles? Nah! Too easy. Then there'd be no doubt. It's more fun to keep you wondering. If you'd get rid of that War Weenie Wimp you have for a President, and devote your energy to getting your butts up here, then you'd know for sure. Path: ns-mx!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!ysub!psuvm!cunyvm!busbh From: BUSBH@CUNYVM.BITNET Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: CONFESS NOW!! Message-ID: <91177.161717BUSBH@CUNYVM.BITNET> Date: 26 Jun 91 20:17:17 GMT References: <3435@shodha.enet.dec.com> Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center Lines: 7 How can anyone be afraid of little aliens anyway. Yeesh! They're like roaches, just step on them, for gosh sake. And this 666 stuff, simply alien propaganda. Who's Bob, another alien in disguise? You folks are very creative, yuck. I will have to send you back to universe grade school to re-learn your space ABC's. The Guardian of the Universe Path: ns-mx!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!ysub!psuvm!cunyvm!busbh From: BUSBH@CUNYVM.BITNET Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: MARS FACE Message-ID: <91177.162511BUSBH@CUNYVM.BITNET> Date: 26 Jun 91 20:25:11 GMT References: <1991Jun23.014250.5222@demon.co.uk> Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center Lines: 5 They are not extinct, you are the aliens from Mars. Evolution and the stronger gravity of earth has changed your race to its present form. The face is a reminder of what your race once looked like. Th Guardian of the Universe Path: ns-mx!uunet!munnari.oz.au!yoyo.aarnet.edu.au!sirius.ucs.adelaide.edu.au!levels!ma903475 From: ma903475@levels.sait.edu.au Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: alt.alien.visitors Message-ID: <16500.286a08a9@levels.sait.edu.au> Date: 27 Jun 91 06:17:53 GMT Organization: University of South Australia Lines: 1 Z Path: ns-mx!uunet!munnari.oz.au!yoyo.aarnet.edu.au!sirius.ucs.adelaide.edu.au!levels!ma903475 From: ma903475@levels.sait.edu.au Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: alt.alien.visitors Message-ID: <16502.286a0c0a@levels.sait.edu.au> Date: 27 Jun 91 06:32:18 GMT Organization: University of South Australia Lines: 7 Merda!!! e que ninguen fala galego ou castelan? please, say something in castillian or galician! for my sake, otherwise I miss a lot, and I am very interested in the subject. saludos from quique, presently living down under, el culo del mundo!!!!!! Path: ns-mx!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!think.com!rpi!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!psuvax1!rutgers!galaxy.rutgers.edu!andromeda!kim From: kim@andromeda.rutgers.edu (Mingoo Kim) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Area 51? Keywords: What is Area 51? Message-ID: Date: 27 Jun 91 14:27:49 GMT Sender: news@galaxy.rutgers.edu Distribution: alt Lines: 17 Nntp-Posting-Host: andromeda.rutgers.edu Did anyone happened to see "Current Affair" on Fox, a few days ago? There was a report about military base named Area 51, located in Arizona, that was secretly holding a UFO. It's not a secret anymore because a physicist working there told couple of his friends that there were conducting experiments on the UFO, and the word spred, according Current Affair. The physicist no longer works there anymore, of course. According to him, the military was actually flying (?) the UFO. Does anyone any info of this military base? Is this valid or is this just one of those reports just to get more viewers for Fox? I saw people actually sitting around the base just to get a glimpse of the UFO. Where exactly is this military base? mingoo k rutgers university kim@andromeda.rutgers.edu Path: ns-mx!uunet!hoptoad!amdcad!amdahl!JUTS!duts!dfs30 From: dfs30@duts.ccc.amdahl.com (Denise Solis) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: The Book to Read! Message-ID: Date: 27 Jun 91 16:14:19 GMT References: <3435@shodha.enet.dec.com> Sender: netnews@ccc.amdahl.com Reply-To: dfs30@DUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (Denise) Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA Lines: 20 I just bought the book "The Gods of Eden" by William Bramley. All I can say is if you want to blow your mind away buy this book. He talks about alien visitations throughout history and how he believes they misrepresented themselves as gods and angels to exert control over humankind. The real thought provoking concept is that he believes that we were created by these beings for a purpose. He relates various creation legends and uses excerpts from the Bible and ancient scrolls of various people. I find it really intresting reading. Anyone else out there read this? -- ========================================================================= All poetry posted is Copyright protected. Denise Solis - Amdahl Corp. dfs30@DUTS.ccc.amdahl.com ========================================================================= Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!news.iastate.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!thyme!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ul'v From: ul'v@near.mars.edu (ul'v armaaten) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Time for another dinner at Ken's Message-ID: <1991Jun27.192359.18758@near.mars.edu> Date: 28 Jun 91 00:49:52 GMT Organization: Watn psn Lines: 5 Boy did I drop the ball. Got all excited about this awesome babe walkin' by and forgot to tell you when I'd be at Ken's. Okay? So I'll be there tomorrow, that's Friday, be there about 5:00 pm. Path: ns-mx!shemtaia.weeg.uiowa.edu!jrblack From: jrblack@shemtaia.weeg.uiowa.edu (James Roger Black) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Review: UFO Crash at Roswell Message-ID: <6701@ns-mx.uiowa.edu> Date: 28 Jun 91 03:33:34 GMT Sender: news@ns-mx.uiowa.edu Reply-To: jrblack@shemtaia.weeg.uiowa.edu (James Roger Black) Organization: U of Iowa, Iowa City, IA Lines: 219 Book Review: "UFO Crash at Roswell" by Kevin D. Randle and Donald R. Schmitt (Avon Books, 1991), 327 pages. (Reviewed by Michael Corbin and James R. Black, ParaNet Information Service. Copyright 1991 by Michael Corbin and James R. Black. All Rights Reserved.) There are some books that everyone with an interest in UFOs should own. "UFO Crash at Roswell" is one of them. Here, for the first time, is a definitive answer to the long-standing question, "Has the U.S. government ever recovered a crashed flying saucer?" The answer is a resounding "Yes!" The Story and the Evidence -------------------------- In brief, "UFO Crash at Roswell" tells how an unidentified flying object struck the earth on July 2, 1947 near Corona, New Mexico during a violent thunderstorm; how the wreckage was found by a local rancher and reported to the 509th Bomb Group at Roswell Army Air Field; how the soldiers of the 509th gathered the wreckage, discovered a second (and possibly a third) associated crash site, took possession of four alien bodies, and transported their finds to Los Alamos and Wright Field for analysis; and how the military brass in the Eighth Air Force and the Pentagon squelched the facts, disinformed the public, and suppressed almost all discussion of the events for decades afterwards. Such a story could easily be dismissed as the rankest sort of sci-fi nonsense, and in its previous incarnations it has been so dismissed by UFO believers and debunkers alike. When Charles Berlitz and William L. Moore's "The Roswell Incident" made the first tentative steps to cover this ground in 1980, it was mercilessly derided and picked to pieces for its intrinsic unbelievability and its lapses of both fact and logic. But Randle and Schmitt know their history, and they were determined not to repeat the mistakes of the past. Randle is a former helicopter pilot and Air Force intelligence officer; Schmitt is Director of Special Investigations for the Center for UFO Studies, one of the oldest and most respectable of today's UFO organizations. Together, over the course of almost three years, they interviewed more than 200 witnesses, reviewed hundreds of documents, and conducted the first scientific site visit by private citizens to the crash site itself. The result is a mountain of proof which will delight the true believer, astound the open-minded, and hopefully give the debunkers a real run for their money. Inevitably, much of the book is concerned with sometimes confused tales of unearthly materials and alien bodies. But in our estimation this is not the most important and convincing evidence; much more telling is the downright strange behavior of the government itself, both then and now. Witnesses can easily be mistaken about esoteric technical issues outside their everyday experience; it's much harder to misinterpret being threatened by uniformed men carrying guns. The U.S. military has buried the Roswell event under all the trappings of a full-blown government coverup: the intimidation of witnesses, the destruction or suppression of evidence, and a systematic campaign of lies and disinformation to prevent the truth from becoming widely known. The indisputable fact of the coverup itself is enough to establish that Roswell is truly the tip of the "Cosmic Watergate" iceberg. The authors have anticipated the inevitable assault by debunkers who "know" that the Roswell event cannot have happened as described. They consider whether the Roswell crash can be explained as nothing more than a downed weather balloon, or a stray V-2 rocket nose cone, or a late-breaking Japanese balloon bomb--and then firmly reject them all. In the end, only one explanation remains: that in 1947 the New Mexico countryside witnessed the crash of a vehicle that was "not of this world". The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly ------------------------------- "UFO Crash at Roswell" is not without its flaws. It was published as a paperback original rather than in hardcover, which almost inevitably means it will appear in few libraries and will garner few serious reviews. The cover art (against the authors' wishes) is a classic "daylight disk" photo which has been widely denounced as a hoax and has nothing whatever to do with the Roswell crash. The text is replete with typographical errors and grammatical slips that even casual editing should have caught and corrected. There are mangled and self-contradictory quotations (some of which can be repaired by reference to repetitions of the same material elsewhere in the book), and there are "backward glances" to facts that have not yet been discussed. But these represent a failure by the publisher to take the book seriously, rather than a failure by the authors to write a book worth reading. Perhaps more disconcerting is the authors' decision to cover the same ground four times from different perspectives: once in a brief historical overview, once in a "just the facts" account of the event itself, once in a blow-by-blow description of their investigation, and finally once more in a day-by-day time line. This occasionally gives the reader an annoying sense of "deja vu", as well as making it difficult to know which part of the book to search through for any particular detail. On the positive side, the authors have taken a very professional and forthright approach to their work. The contributions of previous researchers are acknowleged (and, where necessary, gently corrected); shortcomings in the evidence are freely admitted; witnesses are named, and sources are documented. There are detailed lists of interviewees and participants, a glossary, a bibliography, extensive footnotes, and an index--all of which will greatly assist anyone who wishes to verify their information or to build on their efforts. One senses no "proprietary interests" at work here, which is a welcome relief in a field where information is often jealously guarded and cooperation among researchers is all too rare. Where Do We Go From Here? ------------------------- "UFO Crash at Roswell" does not mark the end of crashed-disk research; indeed, it is only the beginning. A moment's consideration yields any number of avenues for further research, some of which Randle and Schmitt are no doubt already pursuing: (1) The material relating to the second and third crash sites, the discovery of the alien bodies, and their final disposition at the hands of the military is still sketchy and full of holes; further research is definitely needed here, both to find more witnesses and to establish precisely what happened and how it is related to the primary site. (2) Roswell is not the only rumored UFO crash; Randle and Schmitt list a number of them in an appendix. These other alleged incidents need to be investigated with the same vigor as the Roswell crash, and conclusively verified or disproved. (3) The role of Kirtland Air Force Base, not only in the Roswell recovery and its coverup but in other landmark UFO events, needs to be thoroughly investigated and documented. Kirtland crops up over and over again in Randle and Schmitt's story--as a source of orders and machinations outside the normal military chain of command, as a transshipment point for material destined for the labs at Los Alamos, as the place where secret scientific reports on the crash were filed, and as the possible source of a military mapping expedition near the crash site years afterwards. Given the prominence of Kirtland in the infamous Bennewitz affair and other disinformation operations which are known to have been carried out by personnel of the Air Force Office of Special Investigations, it seems highly significant that Kirtland appears so early and so prominently in the Roswell case. (4) As far as we know now, Roswell was the first recovery of a crashed UFO; but there is reason to believe that the U.S. government had, to say the least, already given the matter some thought. The speed with which the military responded to the initial report, the forethought shown by the arrangements for transporting the wreckage, and the thoroughness with which the witnesses were hushed up and the evidence eliminated, indicate that the Roswell coverup was not an ad-hoc response to an unexpected event but rather the outworking of a pre-arranged plan. It remains to be seen whether this plan was formulated as the result of prior experience in crashed-saucer retrievals or was merely a contingency plan provoked by earlier encounters with "foo fighters", "ghost rockets", and "green fireballs" in the postwar years. (5) The revelation by General Arthur Exon of the existence of a UFO control group outside official channels once again raises the spectre of MJ-12. Exon referred to the group as "the Unholy Thirteen" for lack of a better name, but of course this could easily mean nothing more than the twelve principals of MJ-12 plus the President himself, to whom the control group undoubtedly reported. While the controversy surrounding the MJ-12 briefing paper should not be allowed to sully the Roswell event itself, the semi-official acknowledgment that such a group once existed (and presumably still exists) should add new fuel to the MJ-12 fire. (6) There is a crying need to re-evaluate postwar history in light of the now-established fact of the Roswell crash and retrieval. If the U.S. government successfully recovered an alien spacecraft, alien technology, and alien corpses in 1947, it should have had a profound impact on high-tech research (several witnesses described a material similar to modern fiber optics), on foreign policy, and on the aerospace industry and the space program--not to mention its effect on the government's attitude toward the UFO problem itself. Just as the revelation of the ultra-secret Enigma machine and the allies' successful cracking of Axis codes has required a complete rethinking of the historiography of World War II, so the Roswell event necessitates a reinvestigation of almost everything that has happened in the last 44 years. (7) Finally, a host of questions remain unanswered about the relationship between the Roswell crash and the "other half" of the UFO equation: abductions, occult phenomena, cattle mutilations, and all the rest. Roswell *looks* like the crash of an extraterrestrial spacecraft; but that could be because the event has been shaped to look that way, either by the government, by the researchers, or by the forces behind the event itself. It would be a grave error to conclude at this point that Roswell establishes the Extraterrestrial Hypothesis as the only solution to the UFO mystery. That something extraordinary happened at Roswell is astonishingly clear. Its ultimate explanation and significance are yet to be determined. Conclusion ---------- If you have any interest in UFOs, go out and get a copy of this book. Better yet, get two copies--one for yourself, and one to loan out to your friends. You'll be glad you did. ***************************************************************** This article originally appeared in InfoPara, the on-line newsletter of the ParaNet Information Service. To subscribe to InfoPara, send email to: UUCP {ncar,isis,boulder}!scicom!infopara-request DOMAIN infopara-request@scicom.alphacdc.com ***************************************************************** -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Roger Black jrblack@shemtaia.weeg.uiowa.edu Weeg Computing Center The University of Iowa Path: ns-mx!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!sdd.hp.com!caen!hellgate.utah.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Area 51? Message-ID: <71851.286AC965@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 28 Jun 91 05:22:00 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - ParaNet(sm) A, Arvada CO Lines: 43 > From: kim@andromeda.rutgers.edu (Mingoo Kim) > Date: 27 Jun 91 14:27:49 GMT > Message-ID: > Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors > > It's not a secret anymore because a physicist working there told couple > of his > friends that there were conducting experiments on the UFO, and the word > spred, > according Current Affair. The physicist no longer works there anymore, > of > course. According to him, the military was actually flying (?) the UFO. > > Does anyone any info of this military base? Is this valid or is this > just one > of those reports just to get more viewers for Fox? I saw people > actually > sitting around the base just to get a glimpse of the UFO. Where exactly > is > this military base? That person is Robert Lazar, alleged ex-worker of a supposed top secret area S-4 at the Nellis test range in Nevada. Although Lazar's story is highly sensational, he has not been cooperative in efforts to substantiate his veracity. Following his appearance on KLAS-TV's program where he told his "secrets," Lazar was arrested and subsequently prosecuted for pandering. Although this might tend to damage his credibility, there is a theory that this was a ploy to silence him. Since this time, he has been avoiding public appearances. If you wish further information on this, netmail me at mcorbin@scicom.alphacdc.com. Our organization did an investigation into these claims. We have several files in our library available detailing his story. Mike -- Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!pacbell.com!att!att!fang!tarpit!bilver!dona From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism.d,misc.headlines,alt.stupidity Subject: Re: Advertising (was: Re: INFO: Application To Join C.A.U.S.) Keywords: Don, Allen Message-ID: <1991Jun26.012255.23304@bilver.uucp> Date: 26 Jun 91 01:22:55 GMT References: <1991Jun22.090530.8469@agora.rain.com> Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL Lines: 102 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:1034 alt.paranormal:1992 alt.conspiracy:6232 alt.activism.d:1153 misc.headlines:16884 alt.stupidity:2335 In article <1991Jun22.090530.8469@agora.rain.com> robart@agora.rain.com (Barton) writes: > > [ talk.religion.newage and misc.misc removed from Newsgroups line since > they were inappropriate ] > >In article <1991Jun19.133125.29564@bilver.uucp> dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) writes: >>In article <1991Jun18.132817.16937@agora.rain.com> robart@agora.rain.com (Robert Barton) writes: >>> >>> [ subscription advertisement from Don Allen deleted ] >>> >>> Why are you posting these commercial advertisements? > >>The posting is for --->> INFORMATIONAL PUPOSES [sic] ONLY <<--- > > If you're only trying to obtain information such as someone's name, address, >phone number, etc, then why ask for money? I see you have elected to show the entire world your complete stock of intelligent and "witty" arguments.. This will probably be a waste of time, but here goes: This information is presented for others to become aware of what organizations are available, and as _such_ has been presented in that manner. It is up to the individuals themselves to determine if they so wish to become members of these non-profit organizations. If you wish, you can continue to complain about that, that's your perogative, however others that have been following these postings have let me know in email and in public here that they are strongly in favor of the postings FOR INFORMATIONAL PURPOSES. Frankly, I'm not interested in SELLING anything, and as such, have NOTHING, nor any PRODUCT to sell. The *only* thing you have succeeded in so far is proving outright what a CLOSED MIND and an outright Butt hole you are. Now, you are NOT going to change my position. We can argue about this until the crack of doom, but it isn't profitable for anyone and just proves to everyone what your mentality level is. >>Since you have taken it upon *YOURSELF* to be the resident NET POLICE >>then you might as well understand that I certainly will NOT be intimidated >>by witless ASSHOLES such as yourself. > > You no doubt have great experience with such people, having lived with one >your entire life. BOY! what a comeback!! Geez..sit up all night thinking of that one did ya.. (brush..brush) You are a no more than a little flea..and I'm a can of RAID. > >>You can either slink back into you HOLE or under your ROCK or put my NAME >>in your KILL FILE. >>Either way, I will NOT be affected at ALL by your comments.. > > Does this mean that you won't be sending me numerous copies of those large, >worthless files from somebody's BBS, like you did last time? > Let's tell the *entire* truth here BOB...the fact of the matter was, that YOU elected to send ME a ONE LINE RESPONSE to the FORTY THOUSAND BYTE article that you QUOTED THE ENTIRE FRIGGING MESSAGE. You did this a few times...no you couldn't have just sent me a simple one line email..you WASTED tremendous amounts of bandwidth so..you got it sent BACK to you. You also made the mistake of doing the very SAME thing to my sysadmin. We *both* have concluded that you're not too bright. >>IF you have anything at all to say, then say it here in PUBLIC instead of >>resorting to your *usual* snide comments to me in email. > > Obviously what I said (<1991Jun18.132817.16937@agora.rain.com>) was public; >otherwise you wouldn't be able to quote my public message, as you did above. > >>IF I have "offended" anyone's sense of what is "politically correct" then >>I do hereby apologize PUBLICALLY [sic]. > > Obviously it had nothing to do with any political views, but with misuse of >discussion groups for commercial purposes. No, I have you CORRECTLY pegged as a would-be NET POLICE and as such you WILL be IGNORED. Go play in your sandbox in alt.stupidity. Do your parents know that you using the computer when you've been told time after time that you can't until you do your homework first? G'day :-) Don -- -* Don Allen *- InterNet: dona@bilver.UUCP // Amiga..for the rest of us. USnail: 1818G Landing Dr, Sanford Fl 32771 \X/ Why use anything else? :^) UUCP: ..uunet!tarpit!bilver!vicstoy!dona 0110 0110 0110 Just say NO! Illuminati < MJ-12|Grudge|TLC|CFR|FED|EEC|Bush > WAR = "New World Order" Path: ns-mx!uunet!stanford.edu!unixhub!slacvm!johnfw From: JOHNFW@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Area 51? Message-ID: <91179.132519JOHNFW@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> Date: 28 Jun 91 21:25:19 GMT References: <71851.286AC965@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Organization: Stanford Linear Accelerator Center Lines: 12 I do have a little bit of second hand information about the subject you are talking about. The area you are talking about is called groom lake which is a dry lake like Edwards Dry Lake where the Shuttle lands. Althouh I will not devulge my sources of information their a 3 civilizations aliens that come into our atmosphere over our north pole at 20,000 miles an hour. They stop over Lake Isabella just north of Mojave, Calif. and hover while they talk to Edwards AFB until they are given permission to fly at a certain altitude and speed to Groom Lake, where they go into hangers inside Groom Mountains and they work with our people. Groom Lake is approximately 40 miles NW of Los Vegas. Path: ns-mx!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!asuvax!anasaz!billy From: billy@anasaz.UUCP (Bill Moore) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Area 51? Keywords: What is Area 51? Message-ID: <4374@anasaz.UUCP> Date: 28 Jun 91 17:04:29 GMT References: Reply-To: billy@anasaz.UUCP (Bill Moore) Distribution: alt Organization: Anasazi, Inc. Lines: 15 In article kim@andromeda.rutgers.edu (Mingoo Kim) writes: >Did anyone happened to see "Current Affair" on Fox, a few days ago? There was >a report about military base named Area 51, located in Arizona, that was >secretly holding a UFO It's in NEVADA, about 125 miles north of Las Vegas. The installation is real, its a top secret test area for new air craft. Robert Lazar claims he is a physicist who saw 9 alien spacecraft and one live Grey plus some dead ones while he worked there. He disclosed this to KLAS TV reporter George Knapp who then went on to find 4 or 5 more "unnamed sources" who confirmed this Lazar's background can't be verified but his name does appear in a Los Alamos telephone directory. He claims the government "erased" his college records at MIT, birth certificate and all previous employment records. Aloamos telephone directory. . Path: ns-mx!uunet!systech!johnr From: johnr@systech.bjorn.COM (John Reed) Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.alien.visitors Subject: About Roswell and the Govt. Coverup Message-ID: <992@systech.bjorn.COM> Date: 28 Jun 91 23:16:03 GMT Followup-To: alt.conspiracy Organization: Systech Corp., San Diego, CA Lines: 37 Xref: ns-mx alt.conspiracy:6237 alt.alien.visitors:1037 I have read all of the "UFO" postings by Don Allen, and have done some other minor reading on the side about this stuff. I read most of "Above Top Secret" by Tim Good (I think that's the author's name). I am not an expert in UFO-ology (or whatever it's called), but to me, as a layman, the evidence seems overwhelming that a crash happened at Roswell, and UFO's are definitely for real. The frustrating part for me is that all of the facts have been covered up. Just what is the truth? What the f*** is going on? If a crash occured at Roswell, and aliens were recovered, then to me, this would be the most significant event that has occurred in all of human history. Does anyone else agree with this viewpoint?? All I want is the truth. Is there anything at all I can do (and still live to tell my grandchildren about ;-) ) to help uncover this mystery? Will the facts ever be made known to the public? If so, what events will lead up to the full disclosure of facts? I know that most of these questions aren't answerable right now, but I just have to say that I am very frustrated with this whole UFO thing. What's a person to do?? Just sign me ... seeker of truth. -- -------------------------------------------------------------- John Reed {uunet,ucsd}!systech!johnr Systech johnr%systech.uucp@ucsd -------------------------------------------------------------- Path: ns-mx!uunet!spool.mu.edu!caen!hellgate.utah.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: The Book To Read! Message-ID: <71881.286BF336@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 29 Jun 91 00:55:00 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - ParaNet(sm) A, Arvada CO Lines: 32 > From: dfs30@duts.ccc.amdahl.com (Denise Solis) > Date: 27 Jun 91 16:14:19 GMT > Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA > Message-ID: > Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors > > > I just bought the book "The Gods of Eden" by William Bramley. > > All I can say is if you want to blow your mind away buy this book. > He talks about alien visitations throughout history and how he > believes they misrepresented themselves as gods and angels to exert > control over humankind. > > The real thought provoking concept is that he believes that we were > created by these beings for a purpose. He relates various creation > legends and uses excerpts from the Bible and ancient scrolls of > various people. > > I find it really intresting reading. Anyone else out there read this? I read as much as I could stomach. It is a carefully veiled lesson in Rosicrucianism, if you know what you are reading. I am curious as to what parts of it you found so impressive. Mike -- Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG Path: ns-mx!uunet!stanford.edu!unixhub!slacvm!johnfw From: JOHNFW@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Information about UFO'S Message-ID: <91180.112227JOHNFW@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> Date: 29 Jun 91 19:22:27 GMT Organization: Stanford Linear Accelerator Center Lines: 2 I'M TRYING TO SEE IF I CAN GET SOME INFORMATION ON AT THIS TIME. PLEASE BEAR WITH ME. Path: ns-mx!uunet!spool.mu.edu!samsung!caen!uwm.edu!linac!unixhub!slacvm!johnfw From: JOHNFW@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: NEWS INFORMATION ABOUT UFO'S Message-ID: <91180.115450JOHNFW@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> Date: 29 Jun 91 19:54:50 GMT Organization: Stanford Linear Accelerator Center Lines: 15 I AM SURE HAVING A HARD TIME GETTING ANY INFORMATION ON THIS SYSTEM BUT HERE I GO AGAIN. IN REGARD TO WHETHER OR NOT THERE WAS AN ACTUAL UFO CRASH AT ROSWELL OR NOT I DON'T KNOW BUT A UFO INVESTIGATOR BY THE NAME OF STANTON FRIEDMAN WHO I HAD ON MY TV SHOW SURELY DID BELIEVE IT. IT IS MY OPINION THAT OUR GOVERNMENT HAS BEEN CONTACTED BY PEOPLE FROM OTHER PLANETS IN THE PAST. I WOULD REFER YOU TO A BOOK IN THE CALIF. LIBRARY SYSTEM CALLED A STRANGER IN THE PENTAGON BY DR. FRAND STRANGES. THIS BOOKS STATES THAT DURING THE PRISIDENCY OF IKE OUR GOVERNMENT WAS CONTACTED BY ANOTHER PLANET AND THEY OFFERED TO GIVE US HELP TO PRODUCE UNLIMIETED FREE POWER, DO AWAY WITH DISEASE, SHOW US THE TRUTH OF RELIGION, EXTEND OUT LIFE SPAN AND DO AWAY WITH OUR MONEY. IKE TOLD THEM THAT HIS ADVISORS TOLD HIM THAT HE SHOULDN'T ACCEPT HIS OFFER BECAUSE IT MIGHT CAUSE US TO GO INTO SUCH A CRISIS THAT WE WOULD NEVER RECOVER FROM IT. SO THAT'S ALL FOR NOW. Article: 12539 of sci.skeptic Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!spool.mu.edu!munnari.oz.au!ariel!ucsvc.ucs.unimelb.edu.au!luga!latcs1!barton From: barton@latcs1.lat.oz.au (M'gulfn Dread Serpent) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: NEWS INFORMATION ABOUT UFO'S Message-ID: <1991Jun30.101823.19345@latcs1.lat.oz.au> Date: 30 Jun 91 10:18:23 GMT References: <91180.115450JOHNFW@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> Followup-To: poster Organization: Comp Sci, La Trobe Uni, Australia Lines: 51 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:1041 sci.skeptic:12539 In article <91180.115450JOHNFW@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> JOHNFW@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU writes: ] I AM SURE HAVING A HARD TIME GETTING ANY INFORMATION ON THIS SYSTEM ] BUT HERE I GO AGAIN. ] IN REGARD TO WHETHER OR NOT THERE WAS AN ACTUAL UFO CRASH AT ] ROSWELL OR NOT I DON'T KNOW BUT A UFO INVESTIGATOR BY THE NAME OF ] STANTON FRIEDMAN WHO I HAD ON MY TV SHOW SURELY DID BELIEVE IT. IT ] IS MY OPINION THAT OUR GOVERNMENT HAS BEEN CONTACTED BY PEOPLE FROM ] OTHER PLANETS IN THE PAST. I WOULD REFER YOU TO A BOOK IN THE CALIF. ] LIBRARY SYSTEM CALLED A STRANGER IN THE PENTAGON BY DR. FRAND STRANGES. ] THIS BOOKS STATES THAT DURING THE PRISIDENCY OF IKE OUR GOVERNMENT ] WAS CONTACTED BY ANOTHER PLANET AND THEY OFFERED TO GIVE US HELP TO ] PRODUCE UNLIMIETED FREE POWER, DO AWAY WITH DISEASE, SHOW US THE TRUTH ] OF RELIGION, EXTEND OUT LIFE SPAN AND DO AWAY WITH OUR MONEY. IKE TOLD What proof does he cite for this claim? Who's religion (there are a whole lot of them out there :)? ] THEM THAT HIS ADVISORS TOLD HIM THAT HE SHOULDN'T ACCEPT HIS OFFER ] BECAUSE IT MIGHT CAUSE US TO GO INTO SUCH A CRISIS THAT WE WOULD NEVER ] RECOVER FROM IT. Why? Did they also promise us longevity (or imortality)? Pretty dumb for aliens to offer such a warlike society as was present at the time such "unlimited power" and scientific superiority (imagine the bombs they could make :) I cross posted this to sci.skeptic for other skeptics to read, hope you don't mind... BTW: this is not a flame, just asking how such a claim could be justified... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Blessed bee! Douglas Barton - barton@latcs1.oz.au - Lucidity Reals, OK! "Don't tread in THAT dogma, it smells!" And your fortune for today -- Furious activity is no substitute for understanding. -- H. H. Williams -- Blessed bee! Douglas Barton - barton@latcs1.oz.au - Lucidity Reals, OK! "Don't tread in THAT dogma, it smells!" Article: 1042 of alt.alien.visitors Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!ukc!strath-cs!glasgow!ullaha From: ullaha@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Asim Ullah) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: our "Alien Liaisons" Message-ID: <1991Jun30.191448.6681@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk> Date: 30 Jun 91 19:14:48 GMT Organization: Glasgow University Computing Science Dept. Lines: 15 To get more information on Bob Lazar, "Area 51- Dreamland" ,the crashed,captured and given-to-us disks, read Timothy Goods new book-"Alien Liaison- the Ultimate Secret". JUST REMEMBER: __________________________________________________________________ For every piece of disinformation spread, a piece of information is hidden. ___________________________________________________________________ HUNT FOR THE TRUTH. Article: 1043 of alt.alien.visitors Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!ukc!strath-cs!glasgow!mishras From: mishras@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Suneil Mishra) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: our "Alien Liaisons" Message-ID: <1991Jun30.192906.559@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk> Date: 30 Jun 91 19:29:06 GMT References: <1991Jun30.191448.6681@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk> Organization: Glasgow University Computing Science Dept. Lines: 18 ullaha@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Asim Ullah) writes: >To get more information on Bob Lazar, "Area 51- Dreamland" >,the crashed,captured and given-to-us disks, read Timothy Goods >new book-"Alien Liaison- the Ultimate Secret". I've just read this book and theres a photo in it of a model of what is claimed to be a model of a dead aliens body, does anyone out there have any info on this or any thing else on what the book covers. For example the "cosmic journey project" or cattle mutilations. Article: 1045 of alt.alien.visitors Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!uupsi!dorsaidm!kizn From: kizn@dorsai.com (Daniel Delvalle) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: The Book To Read! Message-ID: Date: 1 Jul 91 03:10:00 GMT References: <71881.286BF336@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Organization: The Dorsai Diplomatic Mission ( Mail address : user@dorsai.com ) Lines: 33 > > From: dfs30@duts.ccc.amdahl.com (Denise Solis) > > Date: 27 Jun 91 16:14:19 GMT > > Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA > > Message-ID: > > Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors > > He talks about alien visitations throughout history and how he > > believes they misrepresented themselves as gods and angels to exert > > control over humankind. > > > >Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Micheal Corbin) writes: > I read as much as I could stomach. It is a carefully veiled lesson in > Rosicrucianism, if you know what you are reading. I am curious as to what > parts of it you found so impressive. > > Mike > Hmm Just seems like the stuff the author of "Chariot of the Gods", Von Dankien,(I believe it's spelled like that), and Countless other authors have been ranting about for Decades?? I think even Charles fort had the same notion when he made that remark about the Human race being "Property", way back after the turn of the century. KIZN. """"" ". ." l (-) Article: 2015 of alt.paranormal Path: ns-mx!uunet!spool.mu.edu!mips!ptimtc!rdmei!icspub!astemgw!wnoc-tyo-news!dclsic!sjc!leia!harkcom From: harkcom@spinach.pa.yokogawa.co.jp (Alton Harkcom) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal,alt.stupidity,alt.flame Subject: Re: Advertising (was: Re: INFO: Application To Join C.A.U.S.) Message-ID: Date: 1 Jul 91 06:42:53 GMT References: <1991Jun22.090530.8469@agora.rain.com> <1991Jun26.012255.23304@bilver.uucp> Sender: news@leia.pa.yokogawa.co.jp Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors Organization: Yokogawa Electric Corporation, Tokyo, Japan Lines: 122 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:1046 alt.paranormal:2015 alt.stupidity:2340 alt.flame:26470 I just couldn't help but take the piss out of someone as apparently ignorant as the poster I am replying to. If you are not so ignorant Mr. Allen then please read the following with the knowledge that you have a sense of humor. Then please attempt to understand the hidden message within: "quit posting such in places it doesn't belong"... If you are as ignorant as you appear then please feel free to ignore the message (that's what ignorants do), and continue posting your unwanted, uninteresting, uninformative waste of bandwidth to all those groups where it doesn't belong. (those other than alt.alien* or alt.stupidity)... In article <1991Jun26.012255.23304@bilver.uucp> dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) writes: =}The *only* thing you have succeeded in so far is =}proving outright what a CLOSED MIND and an outright Butt hole you are. =} =}Now, you are NOT going to change my position. We can argue about this =}until the crack of doom Speaking of closed minds... Apparently you have your head too far up your ass to give your mind room to breath. Your information is more than welcome. Your ignorance and advertisements should be put up there with your head (won't change the smell of them at all). I know you won't change your mind because you are too fucking stupid to be able to do so. If the policy is "no ducks because we don't like quacking" and you bring in something that quacks and bears a striking resemblence to Disney's Donald, then a lot of people are going to tell you "NO DUCKS". And the stronger you flatulate that "IT ISN'T A DUCK YOU CLOSED MINDED IGNORANT FOOLS" the worse you are going to smell... =}(brush..brush) You are a no more than a little flea..and I'm a can of RAID. I haven't heard that one since what, elemetary school? I thought we were dealing with an adult but apparently we have an oversized, computer (il)literate, shitty diapered little snot nose out there trying to tell us what a duck is... =}Let's tell the *entire* truth here BOB...the fact of the matter was, that =}YOU elected to send ME a ONE LINE RESPONSE to the FORTY THOUSAND BYTE =}article that you QUOTED THE ENTIRE FRIGGING MESSAGE. If you think that was big then why the fuck did you post it to usenet? Some people can be the biggest dick without even having one... =}You did this a few times...no you couldn't have just sent me a simple one =}line email..you WASTED tremendous amounts of bandwidth so..you got it =}sent BACK to you. Using this logic, we should all send you a copy of your own posts. Then maybe you'll think before you stink... You know, like keep that shit out of groups that don't give a fuck about it... =} You also made the mistake of doing the very SAME thing to my sysadmin. =}We *both* have concluded that you're not too bright. So the potato farmer can recognize potatoes... What's new. The rest of us already knew you were a fucking imbecile. Maybe the other poster was just giving you a taste of your own feces... If you didn't like it, you shouldn't be trying to feed it to us... =}No,I have you CORRECTLY pegged as a would-be NET POLICE and as such you WILL =}be IGNORED. No, you incorrectly pegged him as net police while the rest of the world correctly pegged you as braindead. Thank you for your valiant efforts to prove us right. =} Go play in your sandbox in alt.stupidity. At least he is human enough to know what to do in a sandbox. Do you still get the urge to defecate everytime you see one? you might consider taking one of the stupid "are you an alien" quizzes that appear in things which "enquiring minds" read. Q: Do you have a brain? DA: yes Q: Is it dead? DA: Q: Do you have a dick? DA: i think so, because people call me one so often Q: Do you have a spine? DA: not the last time I checked (mommy, what's a spine?) Q: Do you consider yourself to be as ignorant as the average reader of this magazine? DA: no, i'm number one. that's numero uno for you ignorant readers *************************** Q: Do you know what a duck is? DA: yes, but nobody else seems to know duck: (quack, quack) DA: what was that? Guide: If you answered the above questions as you believe DA would have then we suggest you contact your home planet and get the hell off this planet before you upset the sentient beings. *disclaimer: DA didn't make the racist comment above. It was designed to point out that spineless, dickless, braindead, duck fuckers like people who do things like DA does are as ignorant as they appear... which soemtimes leads them to believe racist propaganda... =}Do your parents know that you using the computer... Do your trainers know that you've gotten out of your cage? I hope you didn't mess the keyboard like last time (but at least you were kind enough to lick it up). You know if you keep this up they'll have to put you to sleep... =}G'day :-) It would be if I knew you would stop cross-posting to so many groups and keep your financial remarks in your bank book or paid advertising where they belong. Or better yet, I can sit back and pretend you're dead until you befoul a decent newsgroup again... =}/ Amiga..for the rest of us. =}/ Why use anything else? :^) It figures. When are you going to stop using it as a game machine and get an education so that you can learn what a duck is? Article: 1047 of alt.alien.visitors Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!apple!amdcad!amdahl!JUTS!duts!dfs30 From: dfs30@duts.ccc.amdahl.com (Denise Solis) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: The Book To Read! Message-ID: <080w02jo090O01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com> Date: 1 Jul 91 15:47:33 GMT References: <71881.286BF336@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Sender: netnews@ccc.amdahl.com Reply-To: dfs30@DUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (denise) Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA Lines: 36 In article <71881.286BF336@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) writes: > > > > The real thought provoking concept is that he believes that we were > > created by these beings for a purpose. He relates various creation > > legends and uses excerpts from the Bible and ancient scrolls of > > various people. > > > > I find it really intresting reading. Anyone else out there read this? > >I read as much as I could stomach. It is a carefully veiled lesson in >Rosicrucianism, if you know what you are reading. I am curious as to what >parts of it you found so impressive. > >Mike > I thought I said what I was impressed with. I have now read some of the writings refered to in the book. There is much there that he did not even get to. As far as it being "a carefully veiled lesson in Rosicrucianism" I have to disagree. He states that the "Brotherhoods" promote social decay and war. I don't believe a Rosicrucian member would give lessons to discredit themselves. Maybe you should have finished the first chapter before making such a claim.I do know a bit about the Rosicrucian order myself. I think I know what I am reading. I don't claim to believe all stated in the book but I do think the book is "Thought Provoking". There is a lot of reading available about possible visitations starting since the dawn of man. This is what I think is intresting. -- ========================================================================= All poetry posted is Copyright protected. Denise Solis - Amdahl Corp. dfs30@DUTS.ccc.amdahl.com ========================================================================= Article: 1050 of alt.alien.visitors Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!att!fang!tarpit!bilver!dona From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space Subject: Re: Mars Observer Left without me !! Message-ID: <1991Jun30.164804.6856@bilver.uucp> Date: 30 Jun 91 16:48:04 GMT References: <1991Jun6.181521.18082@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov> <5662@ztivax.UUCP> Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL Lines: 52 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:1050 sci.space:19076 In article <5662@ztivax.UUCP> sof3@ztivax.UUCP (Walter Meyer) writes: >carlos@beowulf.JPL.NASA.GOV (Carlos Carrion) writes: >} jenkins@jpl-devvax.JPL.NASA.GOV (Steve Jenkins) writes: >} >dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) writes: >} >>...taken by Viking 1 in 1976. Hoagland believes the Mars observer >} >>spacecraft was deployed by the Space Shuttle "Atlantis" on >} >>mission STS-38. >} > >} >Wow! I guess we better get busy with the Mars Observer telemetry >} >system. It's not scheduled for ground testing until later this year. >} > >} Wait Up!! I've only just released the Mars Orbit Insertion >} Sequence to the Flight Team, and MO has been launched already (and >} by the Shuttle!) ?? > >Carlos! Steve! Like dudes, get it together! Don Allen is an obvious >genius who REALLY knows these things. I mean, we must have been out >to lunch regarding Phobos, right!?! > >So, maybe JPL could save a whole lot of money by hiring Don Allen to >contact the aliens and just TELL us all about the other planets. Then >we could just go to the beach... > >I was thinking about hacking TASS to support author kill like RN, but >on second thought, with dona in this group I don't need the NatEnq >for comedy! > >David Smyth >Object X Guru >Reliable email address coming soon! David, You're a funny guy :-) I don't write these articles, but I do forward them around. In the BEST tradition of man"kind"; it's "shoot the messenger". Coupla questions for you: 1). What is the newest buzz on "NewJerusalem" (Hint: Project SETI) 2). What "object" did the Soviets capture on film,just BEFORE Phobos 2 had it's 'problems'? G'day Don -- -* Don Allen *- InterNet: dona@bilver.UUCP // Amiga..for the rest of us. USnail: 1818G Landing Dr, Sanford Fl 32771 \X/ Why use anything else? :^) UUCP: ..uunet!tarpit!bilver!vicstoy!dona 0110 0110 0110 Just say NO! Illuminati < MJ-12|Grudge|TLC|CFR|FED|EEC|Bush > WAR = "New World Order" Article: 1051 of alt.alien.visitors Path: ns-mx!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!uwm.edu!linac!att!att!fang!tarpit!bilver!dona From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: INFO: How to join with aliens Message-ID: <1991Jun30.160046.5246@bilver.uucp> Date: 30 Jun 91 16:00:46 GMT References: <91174.152715SML108@psuvm.psu.edu> Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL Lines: 36 In article <91174.152715SML108@psuvm.psu.edu> SML108@psuvm.psu.edu (Scott the Great) writes: > > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- >This information may be vital to your continued survival. With the approach >of the 7-11, the truth must be known before it is too late. We are not >alone! They are watching me at this very minute. MAKE THE PAIN GO AWAY! > >As I do not have a great amount of time available to pursue follow-ups >exclusively because I am being pursued by the men in black, donations >should be sent as often as possible! >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > >The following text comes from the MUFFINHEAD BS (1-555-UFO-REAL): [ Mucho deleted ] Har Har Har..That was certainly creative. :-) >-- >-* Duh Alien *- InterNet: donut@dunkin.com // CBM-2000..for the rest of us. >USnail: 3rd Cluster, Spiral Arm, Earth \X// Why use anything else? >:^) >UUCP: ..uunet!uufo!mothership!me 0110 0110 0110 Just say BEEP! >Illuminati < Randi|Consumer's Union|PTA|YMCA|USDA|Mr. Ed > WAR = PEACE ROTF (that's Rolling on the floor).. I sure hope your major is in advertising. :^_) Don -- -* Don Allen *- InterNet: dona@bilver.UUCP // Amiga..for the rest of us. USnail: 1818G Landing Dr, Sanford Fl 32771 \X/ Why use anything else? :^) UUCP: ..uunet!tarpit!bilver!vicstoy!dona 0110 0110 0110 Just say NO! Illuminati < MJ-12|Grudge|TLC|CFR|FED|EEC|Bush > WAR = "New World Order" Article: 1052 of alt.alien.visitors Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!spool.mu.edu!cs.umn.edu!talon!orstcs! From: woodc@jacobs.cs.orst.edu (Chris Wood) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Mars face. Message-ID: <1991Jul02.024831.9870@lynx.CS.ORST.EDU> Date: 2 Jul 91 02:48:31 GMT References: <1991Jun20.092852.26388@lynx.CS.ORST.EDU> <1991Jun21.082452.6546@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au> Sender: @lynx.CS.ORST.EDU Organization: Oregon State University, CS Dept. Lines: 64 Nntp-Posting-Host: jacobs.cs.orst.edu In article <1991Jun21.082452.6546@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au> rxxgre@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au (Geof Rey Evans) writes: >> OK, IMAGINE THIS: Aliens come upon this tiny developing planet called >>Earth a few thousand years ago. The inhabitants on the planet have no way >>of communicating with aliens through radio transmitions so rather than wait >>a few thousand years to send radio transmitions, they constructed a huge >>face on the nearest planet outward from our own. Perhaps there is no real >>'messages' behind the face, maybe all they wanted to do is let us know that >>intelligent life does exist elsewhere but they're not trying to tell us >>anything just yet. If they were to build a city like structure on the face >>of Mars, that would be misleading and might cause us to errorneously believe >>that their civilization was located at some time on Mars. A face however >>would be perfect! For most people, when they think of intelligent life forms >>they immediately think of humans or humanoid beings, so what better way would >>there be than to construct a face on a neighboring planet. It has no message >>other than to tell us that other beings know of our existance. > >> A face also can stand the test of time. In the thousands of years that it >>would take for us to get to the point that we are at now, their alien race >>might have become extinct therefore they would then be unable to send radio >>transmittions... they may have anticipated this and prepared for the worst. >>A solid humanoid face would likely exist long enough for us to find it though >>and realize that we have been watched for quite some time. >> >> Also, a face constructed on a neighboring planet would ensure that we would >>only begin to know about them when we are ready to except their existance. >>We have the technological capability now to observe the face on Mars, if we >>were to know of the existance of an alien race before we achieved our >>current level of technology, then it may have affected our technological >>evolution. > >> I feel a face structure on Mars would be perfect for that type of >>communication. > >>-- >>+---------------------------+----------------------------------------------+ >>| Chris Wood | "If you can't convince them, confuse them." | >>| woodc@jacobs.cs.orst.edu | -unknown | >>+---------------------------+----------------------------------------------+ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >Oh dear oh dear oh dear...ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >How boring can life on earth be....totally wierd man. >Where can I get some of that shit you're smoking ??? > >-- I just offered this person my view on one possible scenario. In my opinion it is the best explaination of WHY a face may exist if it was created by intelligent life. And quite frankly, I resent your comments. It really pisses me off when people make comments on a subject without contributing towards getting to the truth behind that subject. Instead of making statements erroneously implying that I smoke 'shit', perhaps you could contribute some facts or opinions on this matter to help us understand it better (whether it is a humanoid face structure, or something that just resembles it). Attempts at ridicule are not only wasteful, but disrespectful. -- +---------------------------+----------------------------------------------+ | Chris Wood | "If you can't convince them, confuse them." | | woodc@jacobs.cs.orst.edu | -unknown | +---------------------------+----------------------------------------------+ Article: 1053 of alt.alien.visitors Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!spool.mu.edu!cs.umn.edu!talon!orstcs! From: woodc@jacobs.cs.orst.edu (Chris Wood) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Mars face. Message-ID: <1991Jul02.030853.10642@lynx.CS.ORST.EDU> Date: 2 Jul 91 03:08:53 GMT References: <1991Jun23.014250.5222@demon.co.uk> Sender: @lynx.CS.ORST.EDU Organization: Oregon State University, CS Dept. Lines: 79 Nntp-Posting-Host: jacobs.cs.orst.edu In article <1991Jun23.014250.5222@demon.co.uk> Ian Stirling writes: >>For one thing, assuming this potential race is somewhat similar in >>intelligence to us (for the sake of argument!), why would they have >>allowed themselves to become extinct...indeed how would they have >>known about their impending destruction? Either way, this is all >>speculation, and I believe if an extraterrestrial race of even mild >>intelligence wanted to leave us a message of ANY sort, I believe they >>would do it in a way that would leave no doubt about their existence. >>Could you imagine the time and expense they would have to endure >>whilst making this so-called "face"? And then when we do find this >>"Face" we don't quite know what to make of it! It's far to complex a >>medium of communication to use. Why wouldn't they leave something a >>little more profound, like maybe a model of a human skeleton, >>complete with very visible structures. (ie structures that can be >>seen from ANY direction). This is just too much imporbability for me, >>I think we must just wait and see if anything else comes along which >>offers a little more proof. >> >>Later, Max. >> >>_____________________________________________________________________________- > >>Themax BBS, experimental | themax.bison.mb.ca >> | >> | 8-1462 Pembina Hwy, Wpg., MB. >> | >> | >>R3T 2C3 Canada | >> >Or maybe something simple,like a radio message on many frequencys >going off every hundred years. >Mail to either |PLEASE do not send large >Printf%cix@ukc.ac.uk |(>20K)mail messages as >Printf@cix.compulink.co |I get charged for them. >Printf@cix.uucp | >one of these may work | I have lost access to many of these articles the last week or so, so I do not know if this article is in responce to mine... I'll assume it is. I'm not saying that they would have become extinct, just that they may have taken a precaution to ensure that a message to another intelligent lifeform would exist in CASE they should become extinct. Maybe that does not have anything to do with it at all, perhaps the purpose of the face is just to ensure that we will know of other intelligent beings when we were both technologicly capable of it and when we are emotionally ready for it. We current have the technology. A face also provides an amount of doubt which would ease us into the awareness of their existance. I really don't think it would be wise to just march right into a civilization and anounce your presence. It would be more wise to slowly increase awareness of your existance and test them before you interact with them. If I were in their place, I would want to slowly give them a few clues to our existance and wait for them to become ready to accept us. Their 'readiness' may be determined by how the general public reacts to the thought of our presence if the roles were reveresed (whether the people fear us, welcome us, or how well educated they are of us through rumours). Anyway, back to the possibility of their extinction... who knows why they may have become extinct, perhaps they have been at war with other alien races that are perhaps even more advanced than they are. Look at us, we still possibly face extinction should a large scale nuclear war take place, a more primitive race might think that we are beyond extinction because of all our wonderful technology, but the truth is we very much have our limitations. Sure, all of this is just speculation, but that's all we have in this situation and sometimes that's what's needed to make progress. You mentioned that they could have left a message in the form of a model of a human skeleton, which I admit would be a good idea, but what if that were the situation? Then someone would likely come up with the argument asking why they didn't simply leave a face? The point is is that if it was created by intelligent life, there are a number of ways they COULD have done it, and it makes no sence to keep coming up with arguments to conform to our beliefs. You think a skeleton would be better suited, I think a face is best suited... perhaps they (if 'they' exist) for some reason or another decided that a face would be better... that's not saying that other methods of communication weren't considered. -- +---------------------------+----------------------------------------------+ | Chris Wood | "If you can't convince them, confuse them." | | woodc@jacobs.cs.orst.edu | -unknown | +---------------------------+----------------------------------------------+ Path: ns-mx!uunet!cbmvax!amix!vanth!jms From: jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Area 51? Message-ID: Date: 2 Jul 91 15:59:52 GMT References: Organization: The Search For TERRESTRIAL Intelligence Lines: 34 Area 51 is a real installation, and people apparently have been seing "things" flying around it at night. Of course it's possible that it's just some new variation on the various Stealth projects. (I haven't been there personally, so I don't know exactly *what* they're seeing. The only video I've seen just shows a light. But there have sightings of things out west which are apparently planes but are more advanced than any plane the public knows about.) As for Lazar, he can't produce a whole lot to verify his identity. As he said though, it looks like someone's trying to make him disappear. The last I heard, someone found a W-2 form that proved he worked for the government, but that's about it. He's a smart guy, but I don't know whether his claims are true or not. One thing I found interesting was a description in an transcript of an interview that I read a while ago when his story was new. (This "Current Affair" was a re-run, and the story was a year or so old when it ran the first time. Las Vegas TV stations had a ball with it.) The description was of the sound and appearance of the UFO as it flew. It was almost *exactly* like the description of the flight of T. T. Brown's flying discs given by Moore in "The Philadelphia Experiment." Of course, Brown's discs couldn't fly on their own because they had to be connected to their power source by a cable. But my point is that it looks and sounds like the Biefeld-Brown effect, which is a lot simpler than the mechanism Lazar says they use. (Of course, maybe the aliens have produced a very powerful electrical generator based on element 115, but that's *not* what Lazar says. He says that element 115 generates a gravity wave and they amplify and control that.) -- * From the disk of: | jms@vanth.uucp | "Let's become Jim Shaffer, Jr. | amix.commodore.com!vanth!jms | alive again." 37 Brook Street | uunet!cbmvax!amix!vanth!jms | Montgomery, PA 17752 | 72750.2335@compuserve.com | --Yes Article: 1056 of alt.alien.visitors Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!dali.cs.montana.edu!milton!serval!luke.eecs.wsu.edu!dfrank From: dfrank@luke.eecs.wsu.edu (Duane D. Frank) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Mars face. Summary: I've said this before... Message-ID: <1991Jul2.180602.13939@serval.net.wsu.edu> Date: 2 Jul 91 18:06:02 GMT References: <1991Jun23.014250.5222@demon.co.uk> <1991Jul02.030853.10642@lynx.CS.ORST.EDU> Sender: news@serval.net.wsu.edu (USENET News System) Organization: Washington State University Lines: 16 I've said this before on this newsgroup, and it looks like it's time to interject it again. Why can't the face on Mars be a natural rock formation? There are at least a dozen rock formations on earth that can pass as human faces from the right angle. Why can't it just be luck that we happened to get a picture of the right patch of ground where this rock formation is? Why not spend multi-billion dollars and send a probe to check the thing out, land on the forehead and walk around or something? Who knows, maybe there is a roc formation here on earth that is quite large that looks like a martian perhaps? In any event, I think that what is being seen on Mars is a coincidentally shaped piece of rock. -- Just another silly signature file by Chet dfrank@cs2.cs.wsu.edu, dfrank@yoda.UUCP, 22414843@WSUVM1.BITNET And others (References available upon request) Article: 1057 of alt.alien.visitors Path: ns-mx!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!rice!uw-beaver!cornell!rochester!pt.cs.cmu.edu!o.gp.cs.cmu.edu!andrew.cmu.edu!wt0b+ From: wt0b+@andrew.cmu.edu (William Henry Timmins) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Mars face. Message-ID: Date: 2 Jul 91 13:49:54 GMT References: <1991Jun23.014250.5222@demon.co.uk>, <1991Jul02.030853.10642@lynx.CS.ORST.EDU> Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA Lines: 4 In-Reply-To: <1991Jul02.030853.10642@lynx.CS.ORST.EDU> It's amazing how much people can create from so little. -Me [Pooh Bear incarnate.] Article: 1063 of alt.alien.visitors Path: ns-mx!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: The Book To Read! Message-ID: <71935.28715AB9@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 3 Jul 91 04:35:00 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - ParaNet(sm) A, Arvada CO Lines: 53 > From: dfs30@duts.ccc.amdahl.com (Denise Solis) > Date: 1 Jul 91 15:47:33 GMT > Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA > Message-ID: <080w02jo090O01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com> > Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors > > I thought I said what I was impressed with. I have now read some of the > writings refered to in the book. There is much there that he did not > even get to. As far as it being "a carefully veiled lesson in > Rosicrucianism" I have to disagree. He states that the "Brotherhoods" > promote social decay and war. I don't believe a Rosicrucian member would > give lessons to discredit themselves. Maybe you should have finished > the first chapter before making such a claim.I do know a bit about > the Rosicrucian order myself. I think I know what I am reading. Forgive my insensitivity by not noticing where you are located, and that you are probably involved with the Rosicrucians. However, I must disagree. The book is about the evolution of the Rosy Cross, of which I know a great deal about. It is one of my specialties, researching various belief systems and their roots. BTW, notice where the book is published -- San Jose, California. However, this is not really the point, and I should have made it more clear with my last posting. I object to yet another author filling several hundred pages with carefully veiled religious material and theory, all the while holding it out as fact. This, in my opinion, is no better than Von Daniken's writing about the ancient astronauts. I have read Sitchin's work as well and continue to find this pattern emerging among these type authors -- forcing a poorly drawn hypothesis into archaeological findings that elude that we are the product of alien cultivation. Although this may prove to be true someday, it is nothing more than a weak argument. I find it fascinating that after several hundred years of discovery that we have never found any proof to support that any type of advanced civilization cross-bred us, not even an artifact! Although we have found sufficient evidence that while some of the ancient's methods appeared to be advanced for their time, their tools and intellect were not evolved enough to even begin to attack the problem of space flight, much less flight. I say to these folks such as Bramley and Sitchin, "leave science science and pseudo-science at home." :-) > I don't claim to believe all stated in the book but I do think the book > is "Thought Provoking". There is a lot of reading available about > possible visitations starting since the dawn of man. This is what I > think is intresting. If you want thought provoking, try the Apocrypha and Pseudopigrapha of the Old Testament edited by Charlesworth. A very brilliant scholarly work, and one that really provokes thought. Mike -- Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG Article: 1065 of alt.alien.visitors Path: ns-mx!uunet!math.fu-berlin.de!unido!mpirbn!p581mao From: p581mao@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (Martin Ott) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Mars face discussion Message-ID: <2130@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de> Date: 3 Jul 91 14:53:57 GMT Reply-To: p581mao@mpirbn.UUCP (Martin Ott) Distribution: alt Organization: Max-Planck-Institut fuer Radioastronomie, Bonn Lines: 22 Hello there, could someone please explain to me the `sense` of this discussion. To me and most people I know it is obvious that this `face`-stone was modeled by wind and sand-storms. The appearance of the stone was due to additional light effects. As I saw lots of `mesa`-mountains last week in the southwest of USA, I never had the idea that they probably were shaped by our `ancestors` from other planets. The face-stone photographed 1 hour later would probably look as any other stone up there. regards Martin -- ) ----------------------- ( | Martin Ott ; p581mao@c1a.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (internet) _ / |"Reach a conclusion, then twist the evidence to fit!"(Asimov,Found.V,442) U/ |Am Anfang war das Wort ... ... am Ende nur noch Eisensechsundfuenfzig ! Article: 1068 of alt.alien.visitors Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!bronze!venus.iucf.indiana.edu!graham From: graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu (JIM GRAHAM) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Mars face discussion Message-ID: <1991Jul3.165723.7741@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> Date: 3 Jul 91 16:46:16 GMT References: <2130@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de> Sender: news@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (USENET News System) Reply-To: graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu Distribution: alt Organization: Somewhere in Bloomington, Indiana Lines: 32 News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4 In article <2130@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de>, p581mao@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (Martin Ott) writes... > >To me and most people I know it is obvious that this `face`-stone How is it "obvious"? >was modeled by wind and sand-storms. The appearance of the >stone was due to additional light effects. That's what some armchair skeptics claim, but I believe that has been shown NOT to be the case with the so-called "face". > >The face-stone photographed 1 hour later would probably look >as any other stone up there. Nope. See above. It is very likely that it is just a pile of rocks (actually this is true regardless :-), but until we go back and take a closer look, further discussion is nothing more than rhetoric. Jim -> ->Disclaimer: I do not speak for my company. <- <- Neither do they speak for me. ______________________________________________________________________ | Internet: graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu | | UUCP: dolmen!graham@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu | | BBS: The PORTAL DOLMEN BBS/ParaNet ALPHA-GAMMA (sm) (9:1012/13) | | (812) 334-0418, 24hrs. | |______________________________________________________________________| Article: 2050 of alt.paranormal Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!apple!applelink.Apple.com!showen From: showen@applelink.Apple.com (Don Showen) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal,talk.religion.newage Subject: UFOs Message-ID: <14401@goofy.Apple.COM> Date: 3 Jul 91 19:04:54 GMT Sender: usenet@Apple.COM Organization: Apple Computer Lines: 158 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:1070 sci.skeptic:12634 alt.paranormal:2050 talk.religion.newage:5890 This partial letter is reprinted from the book UFO CONTACT FROM THE PLEIADES A SUPPLEMENTARY INVESTIGATION REPORT BY Wendelle C. Stevens published 1989 It is copyrighted by Wendelle C. Stevens The problem ... , is the key to understanding most of the American Government and Western Europe GovernmentUs approach to UFOs. In 1945, when it was first proven that UFOs were real, from space, operated by intelligent beings, most of whom where human in form, the American Government did a soft touch check to see what the great unwashed public would say, and how the public would respond to UFOs, and space people, if the President informed the public over National radio. The results of the investigation would truly frost a thinking mans balls. The public s response was all bad. 97% of the public took one or two approaches. Shot first and ask questions later. Or call the UFOs agents of the devil, the prince of the power of the air, the ant-Christ. and set up an even worse situation, where UFOs would became a real negative religious issue. What was surprising was the response of the Religious leadership, which was by far worse than the general public s response. It could only be called grim news. The science community showed no leadership at all, just a super case of stupidity, and prejudice. As you might guess, the original investigations were by military men, under orders from General Marshal, under the direction or the President. And if you know your military men, finding one who wants to get into a fight with the preachers, over what is, or is not the Anti-Christ, when neither the military man, nor the preacher know a hell of a lot of factual information, about either the Anti-Christ, or the UFOs, would be a lot like sending a blind person out to spot UFOs. Just as soon as the blind man spots the first UFO the military will get into the fight with the preachers over the Anti-Christ. To say that the military seriously avoided the potential conflict with the religious community would be an understatement. To say that the military community successfully avoided a fight with the religious community over UFOs, would be an accurate observation. To say that the military was real damned sneaky about how they informed the public about UFOs, would also be an accurate observation. The military mind will draw conclusions that the religious mind will not. The military mind quickly figured out that if the UFOs wanted to take over the world, they had the speed, science, and fire power to do so. Hence, the military concluded UFO were working by other rules, The general nature of the rules the individuals in the UFOs would be working under could be projected, based on previous contact records, how ever skimpy the records. In other words the military figured it was a safe assumption that the UFOs would not radically change their actions in modern times, but would stick with the casual hit and miss system of the past. The military mind drew one conclusion. The single most important thing to do, in the situation it was in, namely sitting on some hot, highly controversial information, was to keep the general public from a bad response, by controlling the public s response to UFOs. In other words keep that damned religious mentality out of the issues involved, as long as possible . But, do not ever say that the military never did anything about informing the public about the existence of UFOs. That will mean you have not figured out the methods used by the Government to spread the word about UFOs. You might say the military took the Bibles advice about not to let the left hand know what the right hand is doing. The Military pulled the very same trick that Moses pulled, when he did not like the attitude of his troops, after crossing the Red Sea. He took the time to grow a new batch troops, whos response and thinking was more to his liking, And that is what the military did about UFOs. The military also found a problem as bad, or worse, than the religious mind. Have you have ever noticed, Scientist are about as bad as the preachers, when it comes to UFOs? Especially in the old days. What you missed is the little detail that Scientist, of the old pre-UFO school got their basic concept of the Universe from an insane preacher. A Catholic Pope. That basic concept is the idea that man is alone in the Universe, and the only intelligent life in the universe. Going into the dark ages all societies leaving records, in any amount, left some kind of UFO record. Those that left verbal histories left verbal records of UFOs. In effect it was known prior to the Dark Ages that man was not alone in the Universe, that other intelligence beings were out there screwing around. Even the damned cave and rock drawings show UFO activity. The Greeks and the Romans also knew that the world was round. The Greeks had even tried to measure the size of the earth using wells and sun light. The insane Catholic Pope decided that he was the most important thing in the Universe, and that the Universe revolved around him, The basic idea that the world was flat was imposed upon the world by an insane Pope, which in effect made the earth the Center of the universe. That Pope also expanded on the powers of the Pope, in effect saying that he was not only at the center of the Universe, he was all that was good, smart, and holy at the center of the Universe. That pope also pitched the idea that man was alone in the Universe. That of course left the Pope the smartest man in the Universe. When the Science-Religion fight of the early science days started, science in general won out. The one idea that the Scientist took from an insane Pope, which they loved as an idea, and used as their very own idea, was the idea that man is alone in the Universe. The idea that man is alone in the Universe, if valid, would the make Scientist the smartest, and best educated beings in the Universe. The Science communitys response to the coming of UFOs, and the possible drop in status from the smartest thing in the Universe, was some what worse than the religious communities response to UFOs. UFOs rather obviously put the modern scientist in the position of being a backward person in knowledge, on a backward world, And farther insulted the scientist, by not bothering to make any contact with him. Few, if any of the scientist involved gave up their status, as the smartest and best educated beings in the universe willingly. Most of the older ones died with that idea in their head. The idea man was the only intelligent life in the Universe. The existence of UFOs truly lowers the status of the religious and scientific leaders of the world. They resisted such a lowering in their status, particularly the scientist. ...I know it to be a fact, having talked to a man who made the trip with him, that Ike had dinner on a space ship. I also know that the Queen of England has been on a space ship, once for medical treatment. UFO Photo Archieves P.O. Box 17206 Tucson, Arizona 85710 Don Showen Article: 1071 of alt.alien.visitors Path: ns-mx!uunet!decwrl!waikato.ac.nz!comp.vuw.ac.nz!am.dsir.govt.nz!marcamd!mercury!kcbbs!kc From: Robert_Sutton@kcbbs.gen.nz (Robert Sutton) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Asteroids & UFOs Message-ID: <1991Jul4.182603.24397@kcbbs.gen.nz> Date: 4 Jul 91 18:26:03 GMT Lines: 28 Organisation: Kappa Crucis Unix BBS, Auckland, New Zealand ---Thier has just been a conference in California on Near Earth asteroids sponsored in part by The Planetary Society in which a call was put out for funding of a more comprehensive monitoring system as currently thier are only 4 searches being conducted 1 in Australia & 3 in USA & with a number of close calls (astronomically speaking) recently its thought by some the risk of collision has been underestimated (David Morisson of NASA has now put a risk of some kind at 1 in 6000) & with about 80 Near Earth asteroids known & onejust 3 metres wide being capable of devestating a small city those concerned (potentially everyone) should pull out thier thumb & get cracking on scanning the skies. --------Thought comes to mind! Whats the chance of getting 1 or more of those 4 asteroid searches or the more extensive 1 if it gets of the ground (so to speak) to scan for UFOs of a possibly artificial variety maybe an ETI modified asteroid (an old SF idea) taking an ocassional look at those idiotic humans (maybe were light relief for ETI) Whatever the scientists think of that someone should at least get the DOD types to release any satellite tracking data (from GEODSS,old Baker Nunn,SPADATS etc) that might show something more mysterious than the odd very odd unidentified space debris.-----------Could keep someone occupied sorting the Earth launched satellite tracks from the potentially non earth launched satellites. *************************** ARE THOSE ETOIs SPACESHIPS SHY OR ARE THEY JUST WAITING TO SIGN THE ROYALTY DEAL ******************************** Article: 1076 of alt.alien.visitors Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Mars Face. Message-ID: <71945.2872B219@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 4 Jul 91 04:23:00 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - ParaNet(sm) A, Arvada CO Lines: 35 > From: dfrank@luke.eecs.wsu.edu (Duane D. Frank) > Date: 2 Jul 91 18:06:02 GMT > Organization: Washington State University > Message-ID: <1991Jul2.180602.13939@serval.net.wsu.edu> > Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors > > > I've said this before on this newsgroup, and it looks like it's time to > interject it again. Why can't the face on Mars be a natural rock > formation? > There are at least a dozen rock formations on earth that can pass as > human > faces from the right angle. Why can't it just be luck that we happened > to > get a picture of the right patch of ground where this rock formation is? > Why not spend multi-billion dollars and send a probe to check the thing > out, > land on the forehead and walk around or something? Who knows, maybe > there > is a roc formation here on earth that is quite large that looks like a > martian perhaps? In any event, I think that what is being seen on Mars > is > a coincidentally shaped piece of rock. I feel that there is a good probability that this is exactly what it is, however I am for open mindedness to allow that NASA *will* be taking a much closer look at that area of Mars in the near future. Mike -- Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG Article: 1078 of alt.alien.visitors Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!src.honeywell.com!msi.umn.edu!cs.umn.edu!talon!orstcs!jacobs.CS.ORST.EDU!woodc From: woodc@jacobs.CS.ORST.EDU (Chris Wood) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Mars face discussion Message-ID: <1991Jul04.115219.29148@lynx.CS.ORST.EDU> Date: 4 Jul 91 11:52:19 GMT References: <2130@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de> Sender: @lynx.CS.ORST.EDU Distribution: alt Organization: Oregon State University, CS Dept. Lines: 50 Nntp-Posting-Host: jacobs.cs.orst.edu In article <2130@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de> p581mao@mpirbn.UUCP (Martin Ott) writes: > >Hello there, > >could someone please explain to me the `sense` of this discussion. > >To me and most people I know it is obvious that this `face`-stone >was modeled by wind and sand-storms. The appearance of the >stone was due to additional light effects. As I saw lots of >`mesa`-mountains last week in the southwest of USA, I never had the idea >that they probably were shaped by our `ancestors` from other planets. > >The face-stone photographed 1 hour later would probably look >as any other stone up there. > >regards >Martin > >-- > ) ----------------------- > ( | Martin Ott ; p581mao@c1a.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (internet) > _ / |"Reach a conclusion, then twist the evidence to fit!"(Asimov,Found.V,442) > U/ |Am Anfang war das Wort ... ... am Ende nur noch Eisensechsundfuenfzig ! If it's existance is due to errosion, then it wouldn't have been created any time in the (relative) recent past (on a planetary time scale) considering that Mars has almost no atmosphere. It has less than 1/100th of the Earths atmosphere so errorsion caused by storms in the relative past seem quite unlikely. True at one time there could have been an atmosphere and water on Mars to cause errosion, but it seems to me that errosion would cause a more smooth, less detailed structure (though it's true that I don't have a picture of a highly detail structure of the so called face). I'm not neccessarily trying to push the idea that the structure on Mars is artificially created, I'm just saying that you should be unbiased no matter how rediculous an idea seems. It is my opinion that one should should look at the situation with the attitude of "well, what if it really is an artificial structure". We have no proof that it is an artificial structure, but simply stating that natural structures on Earth exist resembling faces when viewed from specific angles does not disprove that it is an artificial structure either. Too many people seem to think that that's the end of the argument right there... in my opinion that's a lazy, incompetent way of thinking. -- +---------------------------+----------------------------------------------+ | Chris Wood | "If you can't convince them, confuse them." | | woodc@jacobs.cs.orst.edu | -unknown | +---------------------------+----------------------------------------------+ Article: 6307 of alt.conspiracy Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!crdgw1!ge-dab!tarpit!bilver!dona From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy Subject: INFO:LAZAR - Billy Goodman interview -Part 1 Keywords: Robert Lazar -UFO - Area51 Message-ID: <1991Jul4.014753.15326@bilver.uucp> Date: 4 Jul 91 01:47:53 GMT Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL Lines: 1458 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:1082 alt.conspiracy:6307 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This information is presented for your persusal and is a continuation of my policy of informing the public what is currently available. The content of this information does NOT necessarily reflect the personal views of the poster,nor should the views,opinions,statements or claims represented in the following be accepted by anyone reading these texts at *face* value. If this interests you, please endeavor to research it yourself and investigate it to *your* satisfaction, and as such I will leave it in your hands to either prove it or de-bunk it :-) As I do not have a great amount of time available to pursue follow-ups exclusively, comments to me should be directed to dona@bilver.uucp in mail. --------------------------------------------------------------------- The following file(s) appeared on the Paranet UFO network in the late 1989 to 1990 time period. The following files are on Robert Lazar and are copyrighted by Paranet to insure their intgrity. I have not gotten express permission to re-publish them here; however it's my *intent* to make them available for their informational content only. If you re-circulate these files, please leave the Paranet header info INTACT. These files originally appeared in message form and some of them have been condensed to conserve bandwidth,meaning I have taken the liberty of consolidating several messages together. Other than that action, they are left untouched. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This is part 1 of the Billy Goodman radio interview with Robert Lazar. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- DATE OF UPLOAD: December 27, 1989 ORIGIN OF UPLOAD: KVEG Radio; Las Vegas, Nevada CONTRIBUTED BY: Robert B. Klinn/ParaNet Director of Research and Investigations ======================================================== (C) Copyright 1989 ParaNet Information Service All Rights Reserved unless copyrighted by Author. ======================================================== Below is the transcript of the Billy Goodman Happening Show as it aired on December 20, 1989. Robert Lazar was the guest of Billy Goodman. ================================================================== 12/20/89 Billy Goodman Goodman: What exactly does Area S-4 mean? Lazar: I really don't know. It might be referred to as "Site" 4 -- that might be what the "S" is for, but I really don't know. There are THREE S-4's in all of the Nevada Test Site. The nuclear test site itself is a small area, and it has "sites" or "areas" 1 to 29 or 30. The S-4 there, I think, is a nuclear reactor. There's an S-4 just south of the Tonopah test range. And there's an S-4 -- the one that I worked at -- just south of Groom Lake. Goodman: Bob Lazar, while working there as a Government scientist, saw not only one but as many as nine flying saucers. And he's telling the whole world about it. He wants everybody to know that in fact there are flying saucers out there. Last time you were here, you never really told us what are their plans with these flying saucers. Do you have any idea WHY we have flying saucers at this point? Lazar: I guess it's just essentially research. The idea is to back- engineer them, to go back and find out how they can be duplicated using earthly materials and technology. 606: Is it possible these machines travel in time back and forth? Lazar: It's certainly possible. Certainly, when you create any artificial gravitational field, you technically move in your own time. So technically, you do slip forward when you create your own intense gravitational field. 606: BACK in time too? Lazar: Theoretically, that's possible. Exactly how you would do that, I don't know off the top of my head. 606: So that could be used like a time machine, right? Lazar: Essentially yeah, that is -- 606: For time travel? Lazar: -- that is possible. 606: Wow! That's really something! Lazar: Yeah, that's science-fiction-like. Fritz, Westlake, California: Billy, it is sizzling again on the West Coast. Bob Lazar, thank you very much for coming on again. You must come on. This has got to go nationwide. The cat is out of the bag. I'm sure those little gods in S-54 are listening in, and believe me, it's your best security to come on. If anything happens to you, we're all behind you, Bob Lazar -- everybody. This is like a snowball going down the hill and will become an avalanche, and ignorance will be wiped out. We've got to know the truth -- for once and forever. They are here! Let's find out why they are here and who they are and what their purpose is. Lazar: Well thank you! Fritz: Okay Bob, we're all behind you. Billy, keep that show going! It's the Number One show in America in talk shows. Goodman: Well, thank you very much Fritz. He did explain to you why we have flying saucers, right? Fritz: Well, I know why they are here. The general public has to become aware; they're just wakening up. It's like a film being lifted from their eyes. I mean, they've been laughing for forty years! Goodman: Wait a minute Fritz. You know why they're here? Why are they here, Fritz? Fritz: Well, first of all, it's a conditioning process. Goodman: Okay, you got it. Fritz: We are in a quarantine because we are so ignorant; our ignorance keeps us from meeting them. Big brother reaches out the hand and says, "Come over, little brother, let's have the cosmic connection," but we have to become a world together -- earthlings. We are about 170 nations -- 170 languages; we have to come together. When we have a spokesman, then we will meet on equal ground. Tim from Pasadena: When you looked into the saucer, how does the hatch work? How does it seal up, and what are all of the mechanics involved? Lazar: The hatch -- or whatever it was -- was completely removed; there was just an opening in the side of the craft. Tim: Did the opening have any kind of sealing around it or a lip? Lazar: I really don't remember. 'Cause I was so interested in looking inside, I didn't really catch a strong glimpse of the sealing mechanism or any other thing around it. Tim: When you were previously on Billy's show, you said you looked into one, and it was all smooth like it had been a wax casting. Lazar: Yeah, exactly. Tim: Now, was that the only one you looked into? Lazar: No, it was the only one I looked into. The other ones I just saw from a distance, so I don't know any detail about them. Tim: And the one you looked into, was that the "Sport Model"? Lazar: Yes, exactly. Tim: And that's the only one you saw fly as well? Lazar: Right. Tim: What was your work there? Lazar: Like I said before, it was essentially to back-engineer the propulsion and power system. Tim: So you weren't really involved in the mechanics of the craft itself? Lazar: No, not at all. Tim: But mostly just the Element 115 and all that kind of stuff you were learning about? Lazar: Right. Goodman: What is gravity? Lazar: Gravity is a wave. It's a force, essentially, just like electromagnetic waves are a different type of force. I really don't know a good way to describe gravity. Goodman: Einstein and other scientists really don't have an answer for what gravity is, do they, totally; they don't really understand it totally, do they? Lazar: No, no, not at all. In fact, I don't think we understand ANYTHING about gravity. Goodman: Why don't we just float away ourselves? What keeps us down on the planet? Lazar: That is the attractive force of gravity. Goodman: Some people say it presses down, but it doesn't, does it? Lazar: No, it doesn't. It's an attractive force. It's like, on an atomic scale, the strong and weak nuclear forces hold the atoms individually together. Goodman: Is your actual title government scientist or physicist? Lazar: You could use either one. Goodman: You are no longer a government scientist or physicist, right? Lazar: Not employed by the government. Goodman: But you are continuing in the scientific field. What do you do? Lazar: I design and build advanced radiation detection equipment, mainly alpha radiation equipment for essentially use in detecting plutonium for national laboratories. Lee Samuels: How long has that craft been on this earth? Lazar: I really don't know. I don't even know how long it's been down at S-4. Samuels: Do you know where it originally landed? Lazar: No, you got me on all that stuff. They really never keep me in as to -- Samuels: It could have been here for years? Lazar: Yeah. Or it could have been brought in in pieces from somewhere else, too. Samuels: Did you see just one craft or a number of craft? Lazar: I saw a number of them. Samuels: Did the other workers talk about it, where it came from, or more they towed in, or whatever? Lazar: I don't know. There really wasn't that much conversation between everyone. Samuels: Were you by yourself when you were investigating the craft? Lazar: Walking by myself. There were security people around me, but when I crawled underneath on the sub-floor to look at the gravity amplifiers, I got away from them. But there was no one right next to me the whole time. Samuels: Any evidence of LIVE aliens held captive? Lazar: Nothing I could put my finger on. Samuels: Then you didn't get to see any at all then in that sector? Lazar: Nothing I could put my finger on. Samuels: Did the craft have sleeping quarters for aliens? Is it like a Star Trek craft? What kind of craft is it? Lazar: No, it's pretty vacant inside. Granted, a couple of things were removed; they were sawed off at the base. I don't know what they were; I just saw little stumps on the ground, so I don't know what was removed. But it doesn't look like it had anything like sleeping quarters or anything like that. Samuels: Any writing you could detect or any language on the walls? Lazar: No. Samuels: Any panels, like a dashboard on a car? Lazar: Yeah. In fact, that was one of the things -- There was more than one control panel set up, but it looks like one was removed. Samuels: Were these craft all from the same source? Were they all identical? Lazar: No. Each craft was completely different in physical appearance. I didn't get to look in depth at the other craft, but I only fooled around with one. Samuels: I applaud your courage. Caller (referring to a certain book): Have you heard of him? Lazar: I think I thumbed through that book once. I think John Lear -- Caller: What the heck is an energy grid on our planet? Lazar: I don't know. I don't buy that theory or anything in that book. It's a grid outlined over the entire globe, and at each intersection there's an energy vortex of some kind. I'd rather not comment since I don't buy it. Caller: On TV you mentioned something about a time warp and a folding over. What did you mean by that? Lazar: Right. It's how gravity, whether produced artificially or naturally, distorts time and space. Caller: I read about Nicola Tesla questioning Einstein's theory of relativity. He says that energy DOESN'T come from matter. Where does it come from if it doesn't come from matter? Lazar: That's a strange question. It can be EXTRACTED from matter. But it can be extracted by other means, too. I really don't understand that [question]. Tom from Los Angeles: How can UFOs be kept secret for 40 years? Lazar: I did pose that question to some people at S-4, and the answer that I got was that it's the easiest thing TO keep secret because of the subject matter. Tom: Is that because it's tied in with a lot of parapsychology- psychic-type stuff -- National Enquirer? Lazar: Maybe so. There is so much disinformation made so available to the public via the tabloids and things like that that any true information getting out is assumed to originate from those sources. Tom: Carl Sagan is a "people" scientist; he's brought science down to the general public. What about getting him involved in this somehow? Lazar: I imagine he's fairly open-minded. I've never met him. Tom: He's one of the biggest UFO debunkers. Lazar: He's going to need his own proof, as everyone should require. It's impossible to make an absolute believer out of someone that hasn't had hands-on experience or has seen something for themselves. That's the way any scientist is going to look at it. Tom: How far is Zeta Reticuli? Lazar: I think it's around 32 light years. Tom: Do these ships travel faster than light? Lazar: It's an irrelevant question because they get around it because they're not in a linear mode of travel. Since they're distorting time and space, there's no true time reference. And since velocity is distance over time, when you begin to fool around with time, you really can't state a true velocity. Tom: Re the SETI program -- the search for radio signals -- couldn't some of these observatories or telescopes be aimed at the places where aliens supposedly come from? Lazar: RADIO waves and frequencies along that band aren't utilized; it's GRAVITY wave communication, and a radio-telescope isn't going to pick up anything of that sort. Goodman: The way you got to see this UFO was not planned by anyone wanting you to see it, right? You were walking with security and you went into a doorway. How did you describe that before? Lazar: It may have been planned by them. I had no advance warning of it. I had been brought in a separate door the whole time, and one specific time I was just led into the area where I worked -- through the hangar doors, which I had never been in before -- walked directly by the craft, and began to slow down by it, and they said, "Just keep walking; keep your eyes forward," and it was just like that. Nothing was said, and I just went and sat down in an empty room. Goodman: You went and sat down in an empty room after you saw it? Lazar: Yeah, waited for this guy that I worked with, Barry, and then we went to work on some of the work we were assigned to. Goodman: What was some of the work that you actually did? What did you actually do at S-4? When you had an assignment, what would it have been, for example? Lazar: Most of the time I worked there I was being briefed and being brought up to date on what had been done before. Most of the hands-on bench work was with the anti-matter reactor itself: being shown how it operated, giving demonstrations, and things of that sort. Goodman: There was practically no communication with your fellow workers? Lazar: Right. They kept that to an absolute minimum. They were on the buddy system: you always worked with someone, and that's the person you communicated with, and there was really no cross- talk between groups. Goodman: When you went there for the initial interview, you said at the time they actually had a gun at your head -- Lazar: No, that was at the security briefing. Goodman: Security, wherever that may be -- The initial interview when you went to work at S-4 I'm talking about, that's not when the gun was at your head? Lazar: No. Goodman: When you went there, what was your understanding about what you were going to be doing? Lazar: Some high-technology work, and I assumed they were talking about some sort of gravitational propulsion system. Goodman: Were you excited about that? Lazar: Oh yeah, very much so, because there was some talk about that because it was something that I was interested in, something they KNEW I was interested in, and that was the hint that I got. Goodman: And did it come to fruition? Did what you were told you were going to do actually happen? Lazar: Yeah. Goodman: For what period of time? [Goodman goes right into NEXT question.] How long were you actually there before you let people know what was going on up there? How many months or days or whatever? Lazar: Probably a couple of months. Goodman: Every time you went there you literally had to fly up, land at Groom Lake, take a bus that was blacked out at the windows -- Lazar: Right. Goodman: -- and no communication on the bus. What were you thinking as a young man. You're a very young man; let's face it. Lazar: I'm not that young. Goodman: Well, you're a very young man; I think you are. Anyway, what were you thinking? Were you just saying, well this just goes with the territory and I'm just going to go along with this? Lazar: Oh yeah, you bet! I would have done that and much more just to be involved with the project. Goodman: Ah! The excitement was just being there, being a part of what was going on behind the scenes. The secret part about it? Lazar: Oh sure. I would have taken a LOT more crap than they had dealt out. Goodman: Can you picture it? He's in his thirties, sitting on a bus, and accepting the fact, Okay, I'm going to work this morning, not talking to his compadres on the bus, is looking straight ahead, blackened-out windows, not driving on asphalt, all dirt roads. . . Didn't you ask yourself why they didn't do anything about the dirt roads? Lazar: It was a good dirt road. A lot of the roads around there are dirt, in fact almost all are. Mark in Los Angeles: Previously, you described the central column of the propulsion device as being a wave guide. There was a disk toward the bottom of this thing down near the anti-matter generator that spins. What is that disk made of -- Lazar: There's no spinning disk. Mark: What is the disk made of? Is it a capacitor? Lazar: A disk? The wave guide extends down, and it widens out and sits on the curved portion of the reactor. The bottom of the reactor is a plate, but nothing rotates or moves; it's all connected together. Mark: Is that plate a capacitor? Lazar: No. Mark: Well, what is it made of? Lazar: Metal. That's the only way I can describe it; I don't know what kind; it's [electric-] -- Mark: Did anyone determine the kind of metal it was? Lazar: Not to my knowledge. Mark: I understand that part of the propulsion system involves a very large capacitor -- which is usually the entire lower surface of the disk -- that can make use of something along the lines of the [Bifield] Brown Effect. Do you know what the components of the dielectric material in that capacitor are? Lazar: Well, if the bottom of the disk is one plate of the capacitor, then the dielectric material would be the air -- if you're going to look at the earth as another plate of the capacitor. But as far as the capacitor being integral to the actual craft itself, no, I found no evidence of that. Mark: I understand there's an antenna section in this device; what is the resonant frequency that that operates at? Lazar: The resonant frequency of the gravity wave I do know, but I don't know it off hand; I just can't remember it. Mark: Can you give me a ballpark, like 2,000 kilohertz? Lazar: I really don't remember. It's a really odd frequency. Mark: Is it measured in kilohertz or gigahertz or megahertz? Lazar: I really don't remember. Mark: When you first started to go public and were meeting with people at John Lear's house, I understand that there were a number of witnesses at those first meetings. One of them claims that you did say that you had seen an extraterrestrial while working inside one of those saucers, trying to back- engineer the propulsion system, and that you had been looking out through a doorway or through a porthole in the side of the device and that you had actually seen an extraterrestrial walking around on the outside of one of those devices. Lazar: Devices meaning disks? Mark: Yes. Lazar: No. Mark: So you're saying you've never seen an extraterrestrial at S-4. Lazar: I really don't want to get into that. Mark: The reason I ask is because someone else is claiming that you have. Lazar: Well, stated the way you did, no I didn't. And I never did look and see an extraterrestrial. As the story goes, and the reason I never bring it up, is because I thought I saw something once -- walking at a glance -- and that's all there is to it. And I won't stand on that fact because it was just a fleeting glimpse; when I came back, whatever was there was gone; it could have been a million things. Mark: I have a contact that claims that you were responsible for determining that Element 115 was not in fact necessary to operate an anti-gravity propulsion device in the earth's magnetic field. Is that true? Lazar: No, it's the exact opposite. Caller: Why are you going public? There's obviously a lot of other staff on the project that senses a great degree of loyalty. Lazar: The straw that broke the camel's back was, after I left the program I became concerned about what happens now. I made a routine request for my birth certificate, which I needed just for I.D. purposes, and I was told that it doesn't exist, I wasn't even born at that hospital. I sat on that for about a week and just wondered, and then I began to inquire at previous jobs and also at other schools, and that information was also gone. And I got the idea that soon someone was going to disappear, so that's when I contacted the TV station and essentially let everything out. Caller: But you left the program under very amicable circumstances? Lazar: No, that's a long, involved story that I really don't want to get into. Caller: Are you afraid of any repercussions from the govenment? Lazar: Oh yeah, I was really concerned at one time. Caller: Less so now? Lazar: Yeah, less so now, but you still keep in the back of your mind . . . Caller: If anything would happen to you now, that would cause such an uproar in itself, the last thing they would do would be to go anywhere near you. Lazar: Exactly. As someone said on the media somewhere, if there're following me now, it's to make sure nothing happens to me. Caller: Did you witness any working models of the vehicle that were operational? Lazar: I only saw one operate. I saw one at close range while I was at the area and then at extreme distance -- about 15 miles, when I brought some friends up to look at it. Caller: Using the technology that's being used, the craft are very agile, aren't they? Lazar: Oh yes, very, in one specific mode of travel. Caller: In one direction at a time? Lazar: No. There's two modes of travel. There's a low-speed mode and a high-speed mode. I don't remember what they called them; they had a specific name for them. Caller: What was the size of the staff working on the project? Lazar: 22 people that I knew of, in the area that I worked in. How extensive the rest of the facility was, I don't know. Caller: I understand you were frustrated at the size of the staff. You thought it should have been larger? Lazar: Oh yeah! Much! Caller: More could have been learned about the program more quickly? Lazar: Sure! I mean, 22 people, c'mon! Caller: Do you think we understand enough about the alien propulsion technology to build our own vehicles, using this technology -- or are we even close? Do we know what's going on? Lazar: Yeah, we know what's going on, but the problem is substituting earthly materials, and there's no easy way getting around that. Caller: How is Element 115 involved in the construction of the vehicles? Lazar: Everything seems to come down to 115. It's a super-heavy element. It seems that as you get into the heavier elements -- and I'm sure this property extends into as-yet-undiscovered elements in excess of atomic number 115 -- that the ATOMIC gravity wave inside the atoms holding things together begins to extend outside of the atomic structure itself, and it's this wave that can be tapped off in quantity -- small quantity, actually. This wave can be amplified, contained, and used for a useful purpose. Goodman: Are your radiation detectors for nuclear power plants? Lazar: Not nuclear power plants; weapon . . .where they use plutonium. Goodman: Like the latest flight above us now? Lazar: The Galileo? Goodman: Yeah. Lazar: Yeah. Goodman: Are you involved with that, Mr. Lazar? Lazar: Not directly. Someone may have used our probes to detect -- Number 37: Are they flying these vehicles within our city areas at any time? Lazar: I really don't know. I was only witness to a couple tests. I don't know how far they go. I think they're very careful with them. I personally don't think they're whipping them around the solar system because I don't know how profficient they are at operating them. Number 37: Do you read any UFO literature in book form? Lazar: Nothing in book form. I occasionally get handed little tidbits here and there and glance at them, but no, I don't delve into reading. Number 37: You mentioned some stuff on the Billy Meiers case. Have you read any of that information because you had mentioned that you had seen some pictures? Lazar: Yeah, I looked at the, what caught my eye was certainly the -- whatever that book's called -- Contact From the Plaeides or something -- but it's essentially a picture book; there's really no text in it. One of the craft in there looks strikingly similar to the one I call the Sport Model. Number 37: What did you think of that similarity? Did that puzzle you? Lazar: Yeah, because originally I had kind of discounted the Billy Meiers stuff, but that craft looks AMAZINGLY like the one that I worked on. And another thing, somewhere in that book they had a picture of a grassy field with three round indents in the ground. Now that would coincide with the three gravity amplifiers in the bottom of the craft and the imprint that they do make, so that kind of makes me believe that that really did occur. Number 37: You said you didn't necessarily share the same views of Bill Cooper and John Lear as far as the big picture was concerned? Lazar: I'm not exactly sure what each individual story is. John Lear has a specific story; Bill Cooper has a specific story. I do agree with both of them in the fact that, yeah, there's alien craft here and so on and so forth. John Lear thinks there're here to use us for food. I don't exactly remember Bill Cooper's story. But the little intricate parts here and there -- I just haven't seen any evidence MYSELF of it. I don't know what these gentlemen have found out on their own. Caller 37: From everything you know about it, do you believe there is a possibility there are benevolent creatures in the universe? Lazar: Oh sure. Goodman: How would you describe this picture? Lazar: It's an interesting picture. It looks like a formation of four and a formation of two flying saucers. Goodman: That picture came in a box delivered to the Vagabond Inn. No name, no nothing. Just a note: "This picture was taken from the 29-1/2-mile marker on the day that I had the best time of my life, thanks to you, Billy Goodman Happening." That's all. Lazar: There's even a distortion in the cloud behind a couple of them; that's really interesting. Goodman: That is right up there where people have gone. Bob mentioned the same thing that I said when I saw that: "Boy, that's a DAYTIME shot." Look at the smile on Bob Lazar's face! Lazar: It would be interesting to magnify it to some degree. Very interesting. They're glowing the color that the crafts glow. Goodman: I don't know who you are out there, but I thank you very, very, very much, because that is absolute, positive proof that they are up there in the sky having a good time. Do you think that they're flown by alien beings, or are WE -- the military -- doing it? Lazar: I think that the ones that we're testing . . . the one that I was involved in I think is being flown by the military. Whatever else is going on I don't know. Was that picture taken over Area 51? Goodman: That's right. And it looks like it. Recognize the peak? Lazar: Yeah. Of course, that's a daytime photograph. And I was told that all the testing was done at night. And, I mean, that's interesting. Goodman: You described, when you went inside one of these little puppies, that there were very, very small seats, almost like a kindergarten type. Lazar: Right. Exactly. Goodman: So we have to have some small guys doing it -- jockeys or something? Lazar: No,no. You could squeeze into it. Paul: Do these craft appear to be shuttle craft, not the main craft? Lazar: I don't know how you'd differentiate between the two? Paul: In most instances, people speak of them joining up with another craft and then going out of the atmosphere. Could the models you've seen be classed as shuttle craft in that respect? Lazar: I really don't know. Paul: They wouldn't carry a big fleet of people? Lazar: No, definitely not. They are small, I'm guessing right in the mid-30-, 40-foot range, somewhere in there. And as far as carrying a lot of cargo or beings or whatever, no, there's not a whole lot of room there. So possibly there is a larger craft that they join with, but I didn't see any. Paul: Are there more engines than there are craft at S-4? Lazar: That's a good question. There's nine craft. I really don't know. Paul: It would be something to explain how in the hell we got more engines than we do craft. There's got to be some kind of an agreement or somebody helping us. Lazar: Right. There's certainly more fuel than there needs to be. Paul: Since they have released you and taken away your scientific livelihood, I hope you go on the national circuit, 60 Minutes, the Carson show, everything you can get on, and milk it for every dime you can get. Lazar: [laughs] Paul: You have a right to do that since they interrupted your career. But the important thing is to get this stuff into the hands of the scientific community, that can do some good with it. They've been toying with it for years and nothing's come out of it. We can't get anywhere. We've got to get it out of the hands of these power-mongers. Lazar: I agree one hundred percent. Paul: I think that's why you took people up there in the first place. You were tired of their games. Wesley Crumb, Charleston, Illinois: It's a great privilege to get a chance to speak with you. I greatly admire your courage in coming forward. I saw a copy of the KLAS program you did. When I first heard about you I ran up about a $300 phone bill calling New York and Chicago, and everywhere. I got a rejection today from the Donahue show that they don't want to do a program about you. Did you go inside all nine spacecraft? Lazar: No, no, just one. Crumb: When you were inside the craft, did you see any indication that either through markings on the controls or otherwise that these ships were from a different place? Was there any writing on any controls or anything? Lazar: No, not on controls and things like that. But I did see some evidence of writing. Crumb: When you saw the slight demonstration that was performed for you, were you the only person that was there that saw this craft operate? Lazar: No, there were several people. I was standing right next to the person who was in radio contact with the craft. Crumb: How long did this demonstration last? Lazar: It was a short duration. It lifted off the ground, slid over to the left, then back to the right, and set back down. It was a very short duration. Crumb: But you never saw who was at the controls? Lazar: No, because when I was brought in, the craft was in the hangar. When I came out, it was already out of the hangar and sitting on -- well, sitting out away from the hangar some distance. So I don't know how it was brought out, who brought it out, who got in it. I can only guess. Crumb: Is the entire thing underground -- all nine different hangars? Lazar: No, it's not underground; it's just butt up against the side of a little mountain, a little hill kind of, but it's kind of inside the mountain. Crumb: Do you feel that the billions of dollars that are being spent on the space program by the administration is a waste of money, as we already have these ships in our posssession? Lazar: No, because look at all the technology that we did get out of the space program. Crumb: Was it ever disclosed to you that these craft were on loan to us. Is there a chance of them being repossessed at any time? Lazar: No, none of that was ever disclosed to me -- anything about the origin. Crumb: I heard a rumor earlier this evening that your van was shot at recently. Is there any truth to that? Lazar: I don't have a van. I was shot at in my car. Crumb: It got passed on to me from the Video Clearinghouse in Yucaipa, and we've been keeping pretty close touch ever since this news broke. I did get a call yesterday from the National Enquirer. They might follow up and try and do something for you, Bob. The Enquirer is not exactly the best way you want to go, but at least it does have some national exposure. Burt in Burbank: You said there's more fuel than necessary at the Test Site? Lazar: Yeah. I don't know exactly where it is, but there's 500 pounds. Burt: 500 pounds of Element 115? Lazar: Yeah, and it takes 223 grams per craft, so there's definitely an abundance of fuel out there. Burt: Could you quickly describe the underside of these ships? Lazar: No, because I only saw from a SIDE view of only one craft. The other ones were always sitting on the ground; I never saw it. But the underside is essentially flat. Now, I never got directly under it to look. There might be some features down there, but I really don't know. Burt: The reason I ask is because you were talking about the three distortions that can come down from the gravity engines to distort the graph. Are you aware of any time distortion within the saucer itself while they are running? Lazar: Yeah, there has to be. Burt: What about SIZE distortion within the ship? I've heard reports that people who have been in these that the inside seems much larger than the outside would indicate. Lazar: I have heard that too, but I haven't really seen any evidence of that. Burt: You were talking about the low- and high-speed modes and the control factors in there. Can you describe those modes and what the ship looks like each time it is going through those modes? Lazar: The low-speed mode -- and I REALLY wish I could remember what they call these, but I can't, as I can't remember the frequency of the wave -- The low-speed mode: The craft is very vulnerable; it bobs around. And it's sitting on a weak gravitational field, sitting on three gravity waves. And it just bounces around. And it can focus the waves behind it and keep falling forward and hobble around at low speed. The second mode: They increase the amplitude of the field, and the craft begins to lift, and it performs a ROLL maneuver: it begins to turn, roll, begins to turn over. As it begins to leave the earth's gravitational field, they point the bottom of the craft at the DESTINATION. This is the second mode of travel, where they converge the three gravity amplifiers -- FOCUS them -- on a point that they want to go to. Then they bring them up to full power, and this is where the tremendous time-space distortion takes place, and that whips them right to that point. Burt: Did you actually bench-test a unit away from the craft itself? Lazar: The reactor, yeah. Burt: About how large is this, and could you describe it? Lazar: The device itself is probably a plate about 18 inches square; I said diameter before but it is square. There's a half-sphere on top where the gravity wave is tapped off of, but that's about the size of it. Amy: Are there subjects you won't talk about regarding what was going on at Groom Lake at the project? Lazar: No, I don't think so. Amy: Do you have future plans for more publicity? Lazar: There are several networks that are interested. Amy: 60 Minutes? Lazar: That's been mentioned, but I haven't heard anything officially. Amy: Would you do it? Lazar: Yeah, I'd do a major network thing, sure. Amy: Are you familiar with the movie Hangar 18? Lazar: Yeah, I think I saw that when it first came out. Amy: Do you remember any parallels to what you know now? Lazar: I don't remember enough about the movie. Amy: The KLAS-TV program showed a Los Alamos newspaper article about you during the time that you were at Los Alamos. What paper was that? When was it written? Lazar: The Monitor, July 1982, or something like that. I think I still have a copy at home. Amy: Did the alien craft create harmful radioactivity in the area? Lazar: No. Amy: The woman talked about on the show a few days ago -- the child and the two women [Cash/Landrum case?] -- and they now have cancer. How did that occur? Lazar: I've heard of that before, and that sounds like a really poor attempt at us producing a craft -- a nuclear-powered craft, really dirty, spewing nuclear material all over the place. It sounds something that we would make. It really rings human. Amy: Do the aliens appear to be the same physical makeup? From your research on the craft itself, can you tell if they are similar to us -- by the way it was designed? Lazar: Certainly smaller. Amy: But there's nothing other than that? Lazar: Not from the crafts. I read some material pertaining to what they call the typical grey. I believe them to be that. Goodman: It was interesting when you asked for your birth certificate, and you could not locate it. And they told you that literally you did not exist? They TOLD you this in so many words? Lazar: They said we just have no records here. Goodman: And YOU felt that you didn't exist? Lazar: I felt that that's what they were trying to make happen. Goodman: Are you familiar with that type of thing being done? Lazar: No, I never heard of it before. I guess other people have. Goodman: Did you ever get your birth certificate? Lazar: Nope. Goodman: What about diplomas and things of that nature? Was there any record of any colleges you have attended? Lazar: George Knapp tracked down one, and they still had a record there. Goodman: All the rest are gone? Lazar: Yeah. Goodman: Have you called the colleges yourself and asked for copies? Lazar: Yeah. Yeah. Just like I went and called Los Alamos, too, and they said, no, you never worked here, and you know, I've been there for years. You can present them with the information, look, here's my name in the [Los Alamos] phone book, here are the people that I've worked with, here is the guy that I worked for, this is the project I worked on, and all they say is no. I mean it's ridiculous. Goodman: And when you're talking to these people, I'm sure there are some that probably are just working there; they don't know any different. They are just checking the records and saying we don't have anything. Lazar: Right. You can hear them when you call up. They are checking on the computer. They will type in your name and it won't come up. So that's probably all they do know. Goodman: People should realize this -- nowadays especially -- you could be pulled out -- all of us could -- and anything we've ever done. If someone pulls your name out of a computer where you've worked before or you've had some past, you don't exist because the new person or a personnel director going in and checking -- you're not there. You have no record of that individual. Lazar: Right. It depends on the level that you look into it, too. Like I said, George Knapp went out to Los Alamos, and that's where he got the telephone directory and spoke to someone I worked with out there, and so on. Goodman: This mode of travel involved in moving these UFOs around: Can you see that being a mode of travel for us in the future. You said it only took grams of fuel. That sounds pretty good to me as far as being efficient. Do you think that it's possible that we could be traveling like that in the future? Lazar: Well, obviously, THEY do, so I imagine it's possible in the future. Goodman: I'm talking about our automobiles. And do you have to be off the ground in order to travel like this? Lazar: Yeah, I think you do. It's not a very good mode of slow-speed travel. ----------Continued in Lazar:Goodman 2 ---------------------------- -- -* Don Allen *- InterNet: dona@bilver.UUCP // Amiga..for the best of us. USnail: 1818G Landing Dr, Sanford Fl 32771 \X/ Why use anything else? :-) UUCP: ..uunet!tarpit!bilver!vicstoy!dona 0110 0110 0110 Just say NO! Illuminati < MJ-12|Greys|TLC|CFR|FED|Bilderbergs > UN = "New World Order" Article: 6308 of alt.conspiracy Path: ns-mx!uunet!crdgw1!ge-dab!tarpit!bilver!dona From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy Subject: INFO:LAZAR - Billy Goodman interview -Part 2 (conclusion) Keywords: Robert Lazar -UFO - Area51 Message-ID: <1991Jul4.015413.15382@bilver.uucp> Date: 4 Jul 91 01:54:13 GMT Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL Lines: 1451 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:1083 alt.conspiracy:6308 ---------Billy Goodman interview of Robert Lazar, part 2 (conclusion) -- Goodman: Something else we talked about off the air. We might as well tell the people about it. Some strange things are going on in your life. You mentioned about car doors being opened. Describe what happened the other night when you and your . . . Shelley left the house and you came back and the doors were wide open. What do you think about all this? Lazar: It's crazy! A friend of mine, Shelley, was over, and we went out to a bar to have a, a, well, a buffet. We went out, locked the door, checked everything, and we came back several hours later, and all the doors were open. And nothing was disturbed in the house; nothing was taken. In her car that was left in the driveway, the seats were moved all the way back like someone big sat in them. I've gone with other friends to a health club that I go to. We lock the doors and check them; in fact, I usually keep a gun in the car and put my wallet on the dash. We've come out and the doors have been not just unlocked but actually open -- not even the wallet taken or the gun. Certainly kids would have done THAT. It's just like someone wants me to know that they're still there. Goodman: The last time you were on the Happening, you revealed the gentleman's name -- Lazar: Dennis Mariano Goodman: -- saying he was threatening you and was the biggest problem in your life. Have you had any problems with him since then? Lazar: No, not recently, no. Goodman: How would the anti-matter reactor act in a car? Lazar: I don't know if I'd use that in a car. But if you wanted to, you could use it as a tremendous electrical power. Goodman: Which goes back to the beginning of time: We were going to have electric cars and were convinced we shouldn't have electric cars because we were told we would have to plug them in along the way. It wouldn't be necessary -- as they said years ago -- to plug in along the way to re-charge the batteries if we had something inside to generate -- Lazar: Right. Along the same lines, you could make a NUCLEAR-powered car, too, running off plutonium. Goodman: If we wanted to get involved with this anti-matter-reactor-type or mode of travel, we'd have to have Element 115 -- Lazar: Right. Goodman: -- which you had in your possession at one time. Lazar: Yeah, that's one of the things I got. And that was my ace-in-the-hole. Goodman: And they got it off you. Lazar: Yeah. We did get it. . . For people that saw the KLAS tape, where George Knapp points and says, "It's stored in containers similar to this one," well, that WAS one. And that's why we put it on there. It was kind of a jab at them to say we got it. That was the real ace-in-the-hole because if everyone came out and jumped on it and said this is all garbage and everything, you know, just to pop that out and say, go check this! Goodman: Listen guys out there at Area S-4: I know you're listening 'cause we heard this recently. Why don't you get some of that somehow to Bob. Why would that be your ace-in-the-hole? Lazar: Because anyone can verify that it's an element that doesn't exist. Goodman: Boy, that would be wonderful if we could just get that. Any of you Mercury Workers up there that want to get involved, and say that you do want to get involved, that might be a great way to help Bob's cause out and to prove his story, behind the story. Bill from Las Vegas: Someone previously called in and said that some of the Mercury Workers had decided to get behind Lazar. Has Bob Lazar ever heard anything in relation to that? Have any of the Mercury Workers contacted him, and do any of them intend to go public as you have done? Lazar: I don't know what the situation is with those guys, if they're for real or not. I've got messages through people that someone called once and said there were three of them and two of them were captured down at S-4 being tortured. And there was another guy out here. And so I really don't know what the story is with those guys -- if they're for real or not. Bill: Have you had any contact from other scientists that you had worked with or any other scientists either at S-4 or any other scientists that don't work there? Lazar: Scientists that DON'T work there, yeah, that I worked with at Los Alamos, sure. But none at S-4, no. Bill: Since you've gone public with this, you've had contact with them calling you and wanting to know what's going on, etcetera? Lazar: Oh yeah. There were a couple that I gave information to as we were going along. And they knew what was going on already -- through me. Bill: If you had other people to back you up and support you, it might lend more credibility to what you're saying. Lazar: That was part of the idea of getting it on the news, and I thought hopefully I would shake the tree and have these other guys come forward and all be able to corroborate the story and also have 115 under my belt, but that whole plan backfired. Bill: This is for them if they're listening: The rest of us simply just don't have the guts to do anything, apparently. Lazar: I wish they did. Bill: Anything in the works with regard to any national television coverage or news media coverage of any sort? Lazar: There's been lots of talk but nothing definite. There's no date set for anything, but there's been a tremendous amount of interest, national and international. Bill: I heard talk that there's a BIG underground base up there, too. Did you know anything about that? Lazar: I've heard that story, but I have no first-hand knowledge of it. I haven't been in any tunnels or any underground stuff. Bill: If these aliens that have these UFOs are obviously thousands of years advanced in technology, it seems, how in the world would it seem that the Government would come in possession of these UFOs, if in fact the aliens didn't actually want them to have them? Lazar: I don't know. They look in very good condition. It doesn't look like they were crashed, that they were retrieved somewhere. It really looks like they were given. So I don't know; that might be the case. Goodman: Have you ever given thought to the fact that maybe they were invited here and they actually landed here and that's why they were here? Lazar: Yeah, it's possible. Goodman: They could have come right to this area. Jim from Las Vegas: On TV, you spoke of observing a demonstration of this anti-matter gravity wave controller device. And you made a mock-up copy? Lazar: A friend made one, yeah. Jim: I heard you speak of bouncing golf balls off of this anti-gravity field? Lazar: Yeah. Jim: And also about the candle, the wax, and the flame stood still? Lazar: Right. Jim: And then the hole that you saw appear -- Lazar: It wasn't a hole; it was a little disk. Jim: Under what conditions did you see this demonstrated. Elaborate on this. And how large was the force field? Lazar: The force field where the candle was? Jim: The force field created by the anti-matter device. Lazar: It was about a 20-inch radius from the surface of the sphere. Jim: Where was this area, just above the device? Lazar: Yeah, surrounding the sphere. Jim: Did the sphere surround the device? Lazar: No, the sphere sits in the center of the device. It's a half-sphere sitting on a plate, and a field surrounds the half-sphere. Jim: And you just place a candle in there? Lazar: No, no, no. That was a separate demonstration. I'm just telling you where the field EXTENDS from. Jim: Oh, that's what I'm curious about. Lazar: No, they tap the field off using a wave guide, off of the sphere. And this is a completely different setup, where they had a mockup small gravity amplifier, and there were three focused into a point, and that area of focus was probably nine or ten inches in diameter. Jim: They displaced this area or moved this area? Lazar: No, it wasn't displaced; it's just where the field was generated. Jim: And in there you put the candle? Lazar: Right. Jim: And that thing can actually bounce golf balls of of it? Lazar: No, no. The golf ball thing, again, had nothing to do with that setup. The golf ball thing had something to do with just when the reactor was energized, before the wave guide was put on or anything. We were just pushing on the field; it was being demonstrated to me; and we just bounced a golf ball off the top. Jim: And the candle: Does it melt and the flame stand still in this DISK that you're talking about? Lazar: Well, in the AREA, yeah. Jim: You don't have to put it in the center? Lazar: Right. Jim: Just anywhere in the area? Lazar: Well, the actual flame of the candle WAS in the area -- in the center of the disk. Jim: And you saw this happen? Lazar: Yeah. Goodman: You don't show much emotion. Lazar: Maybe that's my nature, but that's what happens after ten o'clock if I'm sitting in one place. Goodman: I'm not being derogatory about it. I'm just saying it seems like there's no emotion. Some of this stuff that you're talking about just gives me chills! We get mail from people at Jet Propulsion Laboratory and McDonnell Douglas. Would you like to work for people like that? Lazar: I don't know. I'm kind of used to working for myself. I don't know about going to work for . . . especially anything attached to the Government again, [look with] distrust . . . Goodman: Off the air, I asked what would you like to see for the future and what could you do for humanity? He said we could talk about that, but the main concern right now is how he can support himself, and I didn't realize you were having difficulty as far as that. Lazar: Oh no, not really difficulty, but it's something always to look for. Goodman: How could anyone in our listening audience assist you? Lazar: Oh, they really can't. There's several things I did before I began to get into the program up there. I used to race my jet car. I'll probably start that up again this season and expand my scientific business, United Nuclear. I'll probably increase that into a sales field and things like that. Goodman: Okay, I just thought we could bring that up just in case there was someone out there that could use your services. What service do you offer, if someone out there could use it? Lazar: Someone would have to be fooling around with plutonium, and there aren't many people that do that. Goodman: Don't bet on that. You never know. Caller: Was the craft you worked on one that WE made or was it one that was brought here by the aliens from another planet? Lazar: This is a craft of alien origin. Caller: That was brought here BY them from another planet? Lazar: Yeah. Caller: Do we know anything about their way of life? Do they speak the same language or what? Lazar: I really don't know. I really know very little about that. I'd LIKE to know a lot about that. You assume that they mass-produce the craft, so there must be some sort of factory somewhere. That means there must be workers in the factory. Do they have a social life? I mean, the questions are endless. I'd like to know myself. Caller: And if they are here on this planet, WHERE are they? Lazar: That's another good question. You got me. I really don't know. Caller: If one walked up to my door, what am I supposed to do? Lazar: I don't know. I guess you'll find out really quick if they're benevolent or not. But as far as what to do, who knows? Goodman: Say you're up in Kansas out in a farmland and you see this person that looks really far-out, do you think they're just going to wait for them to come to the door or do you think they're going to shoot and ask questions later? Lazar: Probably shoot and ask questions later -- Goodman: That's the problem. Wouldn't that cause all kinds of consternation amongst these people if they find out one of their people were -- Lazar: Well, you have all the stories of the abductee reports, about medical examinations; I mean they go through a lot of trauma and stuff like that. When it came right down to it, if I was confronted by a bunch of them -- my car stopped or something to that effect, a craft obviously in sight -- yeah, I'd take on a hostile attitude really quickly. Goodman: Unless you were told differently -- Lazar: Right. Goodman: -- by the Government: these people don't mean to harm you; they're going to be landing in your cities, whatever; just [kinda act friendly.] Caller: Do you think in the future our President will tell us on national television that the UFOs are here, that he will make it known to us? Lazar: I doubt it. Caller: You don't think he ever will? Lazar: No, I don't think he could muster up enough to do that. Caller: One of the presidents in the past was supposed to say that if he was elected he was going to tell us all about it, but he didn't. Lazar: Carter. That tells you something right there, because he never got in and denied it. He just got in and didn't say anything. New caller: Did you have a badge when you went to work? Lazar: Sure did. Caller: Did it have any designation on it? Lazar: As far as what? Caller: What did it say? Lazar: It's a white badge. It has two -- a light blue and a dark blue -- diagonal stripes through it. On the top it says MAJ-12. The clearance level is called MAJESTIC; I don't know if that was, like I said before I don't know if that means anything as far as the MAJESTIC-12 documents go, or if they just called that clearance that as a nostalgia type of thing. My picture was on it -- what else was on it . . . Caller: Did it have both MAJ and MAJESTIC -- both words? Lazar: The only place I ever saw MAJESTIC was on Dennis's [Mariano] badge, who was my supervisor, and his badge looks slightly different. I don't know if it was an older kind or what. Caller: You mentioned you were doing back-engineering, but specifically, what was the breakdown of your duties, for example, for one day, with respect to, say, what your co-workers were doing? What was the breakdown, the division of tasks? Lazar: I have no knowledge of what the other people were doing. Caller: But you were not working simply by yourself. Lazar: No, just with one person. Caller: And what was the difference between what you did and what he did? Lazar: Well, we were basically in the training phase. He was getting me up to date on everything, so we never split off, and you know, he went and did his thing, and I -- Caller: Did you ever see an analysis or spectrogram of 115? Lazar: Yes. Caller: And what did that tell you? Lazar: Well, that it was an unknown element. Then we did density and weight calculations, which are pretty basic, and of course it was too heavy for its physical size. It was an X-Ray spectrograph. I don't remember what other tests we did to it. Caller: How did you know what the times of testing would be to go up to the sites to view the object. And do you know where it's being tested now? Lazar: Dennis told me the testing times. And of course those were the times that I relayed to other people, and we went out there. What was the other question? Caller: Do you know where it's being tested now? Lazar: Oh, I have no idea. In fact, if I was them, the last place I would test them would be S-4. Another Caller: Are you familiar with Alnico 5 magnetic material we use here? Lazar: Yeah, it's a common -- I never heard the 5 designation. Caller: It's a very dense magnet. Is that close to the material of 115? Lazar: Oh no, not at all. That's an acronym for aluminum, nickel, iron, and cobalt, none of them being anywhere near it whatsoever. Caller: Are there portholes on that craft? Lazar: At the very top, there is portholes; they are square, though. Caller: But they must be able to see by TV or. . .? Lazar: I don't know. I just saw from the outside. When I was inside, I never -- I don't think I really even bothered to look up there; I don't recall. Caller: With the gravity generators running, is there thermal radiation? Lazar: No, not at all. I was never down on the bottom WHILE the gravity generators were running, but the reactor itself -- there's no thermal radiation whatsoever. That was one of the really shocking things because that violates the first law of thermodynamics. Caller: The atomic weight of the 115 material: Is that heavier? We know the 115 atomic weight would be different from the gravitational weight. Is the gravitational weight of that material very heavy? Lazar: Yeah. Caller: How does that stuff break off? Do you saw it or does it grind up. How do you get to test grams or whatever it is? Lazar: I don't know. I really don't know how that's machined into it. I know it is machined, but I don't know if there's any special procedures employed. Caller: Does it melt? Lazar: I'm sure it does. And just historically, all heavy elements are also toxic. I imagine it is a very toxic thing. What else? If you use the standard designations as started at 103, its name would be "unuspentium [sp?]." Its symbol -- if it's going to be plugged into the periodic chart -- would be UUP. In fact. I have a friend that gave it kind of a cute name; he calls it "unobtainium." Caller: In your wildest dreams, do you think you would be able to create any of this stuff on earth -- in order to do the same thing? Lazar: In fact, I'm in the process of fabricating the gravity amplifier, but then I'm at a tremendous shortage for power. So yeah, I have even tried to do that stuff on my own. Caller: Is there any electronics as we know it -- chips or transitors? Lazar: No, nothing like that. Because of the tremendous power involved, too, there was no direct connection between the gravity amplifiers and the reactor itself. Caller: Are the wave guides similar to what we use with microwaves? Lazar: Very similar. Goodman: You mentioned all heavy metals are toxic? Lazar: Yeah, they seem to be. Lead, radium, plutonium . . . Goodman: Element 115? Lazar: You would just assume it would be toxic. Caller: Is Sector 4 also called Papoose Dry Lake Bed? Lazar: Yeah. Caller: Is it also in a place called Emigrant Valley? Lazar: Right. You can see Papoose Dry Lake from out of the hangar doors. Caller: In regard to the long-range method of travel, isn't a propulsion unit the wrong idea? I feel this device is creating a situation where it is diminishing or removing the localized gravitational field, and long-distance body that they're heading toward is actually PULLING the vehicle rather than it being pushed. Am I correct in this? Lazar: The vehicle is not being pushed. But being pulled implies it's being pulled by something externally: it's pulling something else to IT. IT's creating the gravitational field. Caller: Is there any relation to the monopoles which [scientists] have been looking for? Lazar: Well, they've been looking for the monopole magnet. But then this [the UFO force] is a gravitational force. Caller: Different things but exhibiting similar effects? Lazar: Right. Caller: Last night I saw a four-door Japanese car. On the right-side, rear, passenger door there were three 9mm bullet holes, about a 12-inch group. Is that the vehicle that was shot at? Lazar: No. That's similar to my car, but they missed me. New Caller: Do we give something in exchange for all this information they're giving us? Lazar: I really don't know. I don't know what went on behind the scenes as far as how we got the technology. Caller: Did they give us the 115 in large quantities? Lazar: Yeah, 500 pounds is what I'm told. The way I've seen it, it comes in little thin disks close to the size of a half dollar. Caller: Did you ever own any, or -- ? Lazar: Yeah. Caller: What happened to it? Lazar: It's gone. It was stolen out of my house along with some other stuff that I got from there. Caller: [By] the Government? Lazar: That's what I assume; I HOPE it's in their hands; I'd hate it to be in . . . A few people did know about it -- some UFO-related people -- and I'd hate for unexperienced people to be in possession of the stuff. But yeah, that was taken. We did get some film of it and some film of it doing some really unusual things. Caller: How did you get hired at Area 51? Lazar: I was referred by a well-known physicist to talk to someone. And I really don't want to go all into that because then I'm pointing fingers at specific people. Caller: Were everyone's mouths shut where you worked? Lazar: Yeah, everyone wouldn't let you talk, and it wasn't a really happy environment. Everyone was just into what they were doing and that was it. New Caller: What year were you working up there? Lazar: Last year. Caller: I heard from someone I know that's a pretty good source that a small amount of plutonium, like a picogram, might be good for you. Is that true? Lazar: No, not at all. Goodman: What would you use plutonium for? Lazar: To die. In the lungs, it's almost immediate lung cancer. It's toxic in itself. The body has a tough time getting rid of it. It's just bad news. Goodman: And you're messing with it. Lazar: I don't have any at my house. Goodman: You said that's part of what you're working on. Lazar: Electronic equipment to detect plutonium: They're called alpha radiation detectors or air proportional detectors. Goodman: Why do you want to detect the plutonium? Lazar: They use them to screen personnel that are leaving an area that's been plutonium contaminated; they check equipment for plutonium contamination; so on and so forth. Goodman: This is as bad as radiation? Lazar: Plutonium does produce radiation. Goodman: So it's as bad as when they've been clearing the people in nuclear power plants and stuff like this? Lazar: Yeah. Goodman: And you're devising a device that's going to be easier? Lazar: No, our device is just less expensive. Caller: Can you list your credentials? Lazar: As far as what? Caller: Schooling, degrees. Lazar: I have two masters degrees; one's in physics; one's in electronics. I wrote my thesis on MHD, which is magnetohydrodynamics. I worked at Los Alamos for a few years as a technician and then as a physicist in the Polarized Proton Section, dealing with the accelerator there. I was hired at S-4 as a senior staff physicist to work on gravitational propulsion systems and whatnot associated with those crafts. Caller: What school did you go to? Lazar: I'd rather not say, the reason being I am currently working with them under contract, and I'm having enough trouble with this as it is. Caller: Why did you leave the Groom Lake project? Lazar: I don't want to go into that either. That's a big, long complicated story. It gets into my personal life, too, and I don't want to get into that. Caller: Have there been any attempts made on your life? Lazar: Yeah. Caller: When was the last one? Lazar: There was only one direct one. I really don't remember when that was, maybe six, eight months ago, something like that. Just being shot at getting out on the freeway. Caller: Did another car drive by and shoot you? Lazar: Yeah. Caller: Are there any weapons on board the alien craft? Lazar: Not that I know of. Of course, the gravity generators themselves can be focused, and I imagine that can be used as a weapon. Caller: How many alien people do they hold? Lazar: I don't know. How many people can you fit in a car? I imagine if there's a bunch standing up, you can pack them in there. Caller: Is Element 115 an extraterrestrial material? Lazar: Yes, definitely. Caller: How do you suppose the S-4 project came to acquire 500 pounds if it's not from this world? Lazar: I would imagine it came on one of the craft. Caller: Extra fuel, huh? Lazar: Maybe. Caller: How close can a civilian get to Area 51 or Emigrant Valley? What is security like? How many guards and so forth? Lazar: I think the closest you can get is probably about 10 miles, and then you get a mountain between you and them. Caller: A lot of patrols? Lazar: Oh yeah. Goodman: Off the air, you said you traveled one time on hydrogen in your car. Lazar: Yeah, I had a 1978 TransAm I converted to run on hydrogen. Goodman: We were talking about this one night as a new fuel for transportation. Is that more dangerous than gasoline? Lazar: It depends how it's stored. There's ways you can do it. You can store it as a gas, compressed in a cylinder where, yeah, it's dangerous and explosive. You can store it as a liquid -- cryogenic liquid -- where it's also dangerous and explosive. Or you can also store it in a hydride [sp], a chemical that absorbs hydrogen like a sponge absorbs water. When it's in that storage state, it's really not flammable. You heat the chemical using the radiator water, or electrically, or the exhaust gas to produce the hydrogen, and there's only a small amount at a time ever produced. And in that instance it's a lot safer than gasoline, and that's the method I use. Goodman: In other words, we could put these in automobiles? Lazar: Absolutely, definitely. The only exhaust is water vapor -- essentially steam and very little oxides. Goodman: Where do we get hydrogen? Lazar: The most common place is from water. When you pass electricity through water, you break down the bonds and wind up with oxygen and hydrogen. Goodman: What could we be charged if we pulled up to a tank and asked for some water? Lazar: It takes energy to separate the water back into its molecular state, or atomic state rather. Goodman: But forgetting what the components are inside the car, if a driver were to drive up, they would just have to put water into this particular unit? Could they make it that simple? Lazar: You could make it that simple, yes. Goodman: Has this been known for years in the scientific field? Lazar: There's been plenty of cars that have been made to run on hydrogen. In fact one state somewhere has their entire postal fleet with little jeeps that run on hydrogen. There's a company called Billings Energy that does the conversions. Goodman: Why do you think it's not being made readily available to us? Lazar: There's probably lots of reasons. You're looking at the oil companies. . . Goodman: Okay. That's what I wanted to get to. Lazar: But you can always point your finger at them for anything. Goodman: But I mean, it's just being held back from us even though it could be here. Lazar: But you've got the problem of availability, too, if you're going to just use gaseous hydrogen. Goodman: What would it take to change our current motor in a car to accept this? Lazar: Not very much at all. It's very similar to a propane conversion. Goodman: Have you heard from Mr. Teller at all? Lazar: No. Goodman: Not one word? In other words, he's done nothing at all? Lazar: No. Goodman: You said we're nowhere near being able to have an anti-matter reactor? Lazar: No, not at all. The first thing we'll come up with when we toy with that some more is -- and there's already been talk of it -- is an anti-matter weapon. Unfortunately, that's the easiest thing to produce. First we'll see that before we'll see potential useful uses. Goodman: I was talking to Bob Lazar off the air, and Bob is a jet car driver. That's how he relaxes, doing 350 miles per hour. Roger: Are the nine disks quite different in appearance? Lazar: Yeah, they're all completely different in appearance. Roger: Are they then perhaps from different star systems? Lazar: Could be. Roger: You said the one you looked at, the Sport Model, was from Reticulum, right? Lazar: That's what I READ. Roger: So that has the gravity propulsion system. But then some of the others may have some other type of propulsion system? Lazar: I was told that the reactors are all similar in them [the crafts], and from that I just assume that the propulsion system is the same. But it is possible that the other ones have different propulsion systems, yeah. Roger: How many light years from Earth to Reticulum? Lazar: 32, 33, 34, somewhere around there. Roger: They must get away from Earth before they amplify these gravitational systems, do they not? Lazar: They don't HAVE to, but it has to be a line of sight where they can move to. Roger: In other words, it wouldn't have any effect on the Earth even though it were close to it when they turned it on? Lazar: No. Roger: Where do the aliens fit into religion? They must say something about it. I heard that they had a [bearing] on us through religion, perhaps through colonization. Lazar: I've read some about that. You know, I don't want to go into that because that's going to upset everybody. Caller: What is the top speed of the craft? Lazar: It's tough to say a top speed because to say speed you have to compare distance and time. And when you're screwing around with time and distorting it, you can no longer judge a velocity. They're not traveling in a linear mode where they just fly and cover a certain distance in a certain time. That's the real definition of speed. They're bending and distorting space and then essentially snapping it back with the craft, so the distances they can travel are phenomenal -- in little or no time. So speed has little bearing. Caller: Is the laser part of their technology or their flying speed? Lazar: No, I haven't seen anything along that line. Caller: Is Rockwell involved with that? Lazar: Not that I've seen. Pistol: You've mentioned anti-gravity generator and anti-matter generator. Are they different? Lazar: It's not a gravity generator; it's a gravity amplifier. I get tongue-twisted all too often. The anti-matter reactor provides the power for the craft and the basic low-amplitude gravitational wave, which is too low of an amplitude to do anything. It's piped into the gravity amplifiers, which are found at the bottom of the craft. There it's amplified into an extremely powerful wave, and that's what the craft is flown on. But there is an anti-matter reactor: that's what provides the power. Roger Nelson, KBAY-Radio San Francisco announcer: Last time I asked Bob Lazar about the hyper-light propulsion systems he had seen, he said the crafts have hyper-light capabilities -- beyond the speed of light. Do you know anyone in our government or who worked on the craft who might be from Earth who has taken those craft and flown past the speed of light to other galaxies? Lazar: I don't, and I don't know if they have been used for that. Nelson: Is there any way to find how many of our guys on particular programs have gone to space, what they're learning, exactly where they are now, and whether or not there's any tie-in with the Alternative Three Escape-Earth Plan that supposedly the Government leaders are stirring up now. Is there any place that you know of that this information can be found? Lazar: I imagine, if any of that is in fact true, it would be found in the midst of S-4 or 51 down there. But how to contact those guys and actually get them to talk is a feat not yet attained. Nelson: What is it you are now doing now that they have cut you off at the knees? Lazar: I do other scientific research and produce, design, and repair alpha radiation detection equipment. Nelson: A number of copies of these broadcasts and the show on Channel 8 and all the other stuff has been getting around, perhaps even internationally. Has anybody bothered you since you went public? Lazar: Other than the sily little things that have been done, no, nothing, nothing big to be concerned about. Nelson: Are we going to see you at any of these things like the January 7th conference ["An Evening With Bill Cooper," Showboat Hotel Sports Pavilion, Las Vegas, Nevada, 5:00 p.m. - 8:00 p.m., $15 per person], or other symposiums in the future? Lazar: I don't think so, no. Nelson: Well look, I think you're a very brave man. With that kind of an onus on your head, it takes a lot of courage to keep coming back to the airwaves. I stand up and cheer as one. Caller: How do your magnetohydrodynamics studies relate to the hot spots in the earth's magnetic flux, and does that relate to the deep-hole theory, the Soviet Union's plan? Lazar: I don't know what the Soviet Union's plan was. I looked at it from a power point of view, as producing on a large scale plasma-generated energy in a power-plant situation, or producing something that would retrofit -- like a coal-fired plant that has a lot of waste heat and high-energy plasma. Caller: The question is, are you experimenting using the earth's flux? Lazar: No. There's stand-alone high-energy magnets that I use. Caller: What is the atomic weight of 115? Lazar: I hate even to guess. I know it because we've written it down because we've calculated it, but I really don't remember. Caller: Can you give us a ballpark? Lazar: No, 'cause I'd be wrong! Just like if I gave a ballpark on the gravitational wave frequency -- and that's really bugging the hell out of me. There were three things, as a matter of fact, that for some reason I've developed a mental block on. I'll have to call Billy, and then he can announce it on the air. I'll just call him and then he can relay it to everyone. New Caller: I'd like to stand up and cheer for Bob Lazar! It does take a lot of courage, and it's about time somebody stepped forward with some information that's being kept from us for so long. How long do you think it took them to make their journey here, using their methods of propulsion? Lazar: An extremely short time. I'd hesitate to say, but I don't think you're even looking at days. Caller: Is that because of this gravity lines-of-force thing or because time stands still for them and it really does take a long time but they don't know it because time stands still? Lazar: No, they're actually traveling almost IN-BETWEEN time because of the way that they distort time and space. So that they're traveling vast distances without the incrementation of time. The time would be very, very little. Days is probably -- I'm way off saying that, too. But I hate to say something and be really far off. Caller: Could these aliens be robots and not actually be native beings from that galaxy? Lazar: I imagine it's possible. Who knows what actually flew the craft, whether or not aliens have ever been in Area S-4 down there, but it's possible that some automated creature flew them. Who knows? Goodman: You made a statement when he asked how long it took them to get here, and when you were inside the spacecraft itself you didn't see any sleeping quarters. So perhaps they just start in the morning and they're here in the afternoon; it's that simple as far as OUR time goes. Lazar: If it even takes that long. Barbara: When your hypnotherapist, Layne Keck, talked on the air about you, did you request that? Lazar: That he talk about me? Barbara: Uh huh. Lazar: No, George Knapp requested that, and then Layne called me to find out if it would be okay, and I said yeah, go ahead. Barbara: Well, I called the office and that was what I was told, and it didn't seem quite -- Lazar: That I requested Layne to go on? No. Barbara: That's what the person in the office said. How was your experience there with him? How did you feel about your experience? Lazar: As far as what? How I got along with Layne? Barbara: No. As far as how you felt comfortable with going back to some unpleasant experiences. Lazar: The emotions came up when you're under hypnosis, and that part wasn't exactly pleasant. Barbara: How do you feel about it today? Lazar: I feel better. At the time, it wasn't very pleasant. But in general, just being under hypnosis is a really good feeling. Barbara: You have the videotape of that? Lazar: Yeah. Barbara: It's in your possession? Lazar: I don't want to say where it is, but I know where it is. Barbara: I'm going to be doing that because I was with him. So for my own personal information, I just wanted to do that, because I have good aliens, bad aliens, you know, it runs in my family. And there's an extreme reason why I'm going to be doing this, so I wanted to clarify that and try to make myself . . .Although I can do it on my own, I won't go deeper than a certain point. New Caller: Is there any limit on the distance a spaceship can travel. Can it actually travel out of our galaxy to the Andromeda galaxy? How far can 223 grams of Element 115 take you? Lazar: I really don't know. From what I understand, the actual consumption of the element is very low; I imagine it is possible with enough [junk] made to travel to another galaxy. Caller: I assume the gravity wave is more powerful than the gamma wave, correct? Lazar: Than the GAMMA wave? Caller: Or the spectral wave? What's the limit on light waves with the 10 billion light years or something -- how far light can travel? Lazar: A limit as far as what? It depends on the interaction: the gravitational fields the beam passes through, the photons pass through, and so on and so forth, so there's no real limit at true dead space. As I said last time, and only one person took advantage of it, if anyone does have any questions they want to ask me, they can write in care of this station. A person called earlier and wanted a copy of that newspaper article. I have no problem in copying that and sending it to him. So just write to the station, whatever the address is. ================================================================= End of File -- -* Don Allen *- InterNet: dona@bilver.UUCP // Amiga..for the best of us. USnail: 1818G Landing Dr, Sanford Fl 32771 \X/ Why use anything else? :-) UUCP: ..uunet!tarpit!bilver!vicstoy!dona 0110 0110 0110 Just say NO! Illuminati < MJ-12|Greys|TLC|CFR|FED|Bilderbergs > UN = "New World Order" Article: 6309 of alt.conspiracy Path: ns-mx!uunet!crdgw1!ge-dab!tarpit!bilver!dona From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy Subject: INFO: Robert Lazar - First knowledge - Paranet messages Keywords: Robert Lazar - UFO - Area51 Message-ID: <1991Jul4.020322.15458@bilver.uucp> Date: 4 Jul 91 02:03:22 GMT Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL Lines: 605 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:1084 alt.conspiracy:6309 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This information is presented for your persusal and is a continuation of my policy of informing the public what is currently available. The content of this information does NOT necessarily reflect the personal views of the poster,nor should the views,opinions,statements or claims represented in the following be accepted by anyone reading these texts at *face* value. If this interests you, please endeavor to research it yourself and investigate it to *your* satisfaction, and as such I will leave it in your hands to either prove it or de-bunk it :-) As I do not have a great amount of time available to pursue follow-ups exclusively, comments to me should be directed to dona@bilver.uucp in mail. --------------------------------------------------------------------- The following are some of the first messages that appeared on the Paranet UFO network regarding Robert Lazar. ----Begin Included Text --------------------------------------------- Message #2505 "PN: UFO" Date: 11-Nov-89 03:25 From: Michael Corbin To: All Subj: For Immediate Release Next Reply is Message #2506 November 10, 1989 ParaNet Information Service (Denver, CO)--This evening saw perhaps an unprecedented event in UFOlogy. KLAS-TV in Las Vegas, Nevada has been airing a UFO special during the evening news which began on Monday dealing with the UFO mystery and cover-up. The series, which has been covered by ParaNet, began its coverage with a history of UFOs beginning in the late 1940s and moving forward through the numerous sighting reports to the cattle mutilations, which was aired last evening. As promised at the close of last evening's show, George Knapp, a news anchorman for Channel 8 in Vegas, stated that a scientific person would be featured on tonight's program who has claimed to work at Area 51, the government's super-secret test range at Nellis AFB in Nevada. Indeed, quite a story was told by Robert Lazar, a physicist who claimed that he had worked on a project at Area 51 involving flying disks provided by alien intelligences. Over the last year, ParaNet has carried stories relating to possible involvement with the government in projects of this nature at the Nevada test site. Up to now, the stories have been of a very speculative nature. Although the material presented by Robert Lazar remains unconfirmed, enough information has been disclosed that ParaNet's large investigative staff in Nevada has started an intensive investigation into this release. It is interesting to note that Robert Lazar is an associate of John Lear and has been providing this information to Lear over the last few months. Lear has appeared on Channel 8 on numerous occasions together will Bill Cooper discussing Lear's famous 'ET Hypothesis.' According to Lear, Lazar was instrumental in providing Lear with locations overlooking the test site which would provide a good view of the objects as they flew into the night sky. Lear attempted to shoot video of an object as it maneuvered through the night sky during last summer, however nothing was captured on the tape of a substantive nature. Lear also relates that his group was harassed by a Lincoln County sheriff following his attempts to take the pictures. Below is a transcript of the program that aired this evening. All paragraphs out of quotes are the narrator of the segment. We were as accurate as possible on the transcription, however there are a couple of places where comments were edited out due to inability to understand what was being said. Further reports will be provided as information becomes available. ================================================================= We've been working on the story for some time....UFO researchers claim that there is a secret government within our government. Now this may be hard to believe coming from the UFO perspective, but we have learned that Watergate and the Iran Contra scandal that factions within our government can and do pursue their own hidden agendas outside of the law; outside the control of the Congress or the knowledge of the American people. This is exactly the type of operation that we hear about tonight. It's a chilling scenario with worldwide implications that may have its roots right here [Las Vegas, Nevada]. Area 51, that mysterious corner of the Nevada Test Site, is no longer considered a secret. The fact that secretive things go on here isn't evident; even to the Soviets who make daily spy flights over the facility to take a peek at what's going on. These photos, never before shown in public, are about as close as anyone will ever come to seeing what the place looks like again. The dry bed at Groom Lake, the corrugated buildings, a three-mile long runway and some highly sophisticated radar and detection equipment. Its been known by many names over the years -- Dreamland; The Ranch; The Skunk Works. If ever there was a place to test the secret new technology, this is it. And that's exactly what has been done here for decades. Area 51 is where Francis Gary Powers and the other U-2 pilots were trained in the 50s. And, where the U-2 itself was developed. The SR-71 spy plane that spotted Soviet missiles in Cuba in the early 60s were also developed at 51. 51 is where Stealth technology was nurtured, where Star Wars devices are still tested, and where all manner of CIA [unknown] business has been plotted and refined. It's the perfect place for secret things, but of course, that's no secret. 51 is ringed by the forbidden vastness of the Nevada test site; by the looming Groom Mountain and by sparsely populated desert expanses. But the people that do live out here have no love lost for the military, but they're conservative, patriotic and they mind their own business. Interviewer questioning a nearby resident of Area 51: "Ever see something that you can't explain?" Resident: "Sure, lots of times." Interviewer: "Care to elaborate?" Resident: "No." (Laughter). On any given night at the Rachel Bar and Grill, you might find three or four people who work at Area 51. They are among the flowing Budweiser and the cowboy hats. You might find them, but they are not going to talk to you. Not about the things that they have seen over the mountain. A steady trickle of curiosity- seekers flows through here; strangers, drawn by strange stories of lights in the night sky. Their questions also go unanswered. No one who has worked at Dreamland has ever publicly acknowledged what so many people have suspected for years: That alien technology is being tested in the Nevada desert. The speculation first surfaced in documents obtained by UFO researchers. Documents about something called Project Aquarius. The document allegedly prepared for an organization called MJ-12, states that a program to fly recovered alien spacecraft was established in 1972 and is continuing in Nevada. The National Security Agency has confirmed it does have a Project Aquarius but denies that it has anything to do with flying saucers. NSA will not say what Project Aquarius is. Speculation was heightened in 1984, when the Air Force seized nearly 90,000 acres around Groom Lake. The action was, by most accounts, illegal. During Congressional hearings about the land grab, Congressman John Siberling grilled the military about the legal authority used in the action and was told the authority was at a much, much higher level than the Air Force. Siberling asked what authority is higher than the laws of the United States? The Air Force official said he could respond, but only in a closed briefing. In 1987, when the Air Force sought to renew its stranglehold on the Groom range, news articles once again mentioned the talk about alien spacecraft and subsequent articles in national magazines quoted un-named sources about things of alien origin flying in Nevada. Things that would make film-maker George Lucas drool. Despite the speculation, no one who knew Area 51 from the inside ever talked publicly about the saucer story. Bob Lazar: "Well, there's several uh, actually nine uh flying saucers, flying disks that are out there of extraterrestrial origin." The live interview with the shadowy "Dennis" drew international attention. Portions were broadcast by radio in six European countries, and in a nationally televised TV special in Japan. Despite numerous inquiries and "feelers," "Dennis" has remained anonymous until now. His real name is Robert Lazar. A young scientist with eclectic interests. The choice of "Dennis" was an inside joke -- he says that's the name of his superior at Groom Lake. It wasn't a joke to Dennis. Lazar: "He called right after and said, 'Do you have any idea what we're going to do to you now?' and I said no, and he hung up the phone." Lazar's story is by any standard, fantastic. He says he's telling it in order to protect himself. He said he was hired to work in area called S-4 which is a few miles south of Groom Lake. At S-4, he says, are flying saucers, anti-matter reactors and other working examples of technology that is seemingly beyond human capabilities. Lazar: "Right. This stuff came from somewhere else. I know it is hard to believe, but it is there and I saw it. I know what the current state-of-the-art is in physics and it it can't be done." Checking out Lazar's credentials proved to be a difficult task. He says he holds degrees in physics and electronics, but the schools that we contacted say they've never heard of him. He says he also worked as a physicist at Los Alamos National Labs where he worked with one of the world's largest particle beam accelerators, a half-mile long 'behemoth' capable of generating seven-hundred million volts. Los Alamos officials told us they have no record of Robert Lazar ever working there. They were either mistaken or were lying. A 1982 phone book from the Lab lists Lazar right there among the other scientists and technicians. A 1982 news clipping from the Los Alamos newspaper profiled Lazar and his interest in jet cars. It, too, mentioned his employment at the Lab as a physicist. We called Los Alamos again, and an exasperated official told us he still had no records on Lazar. EG&G, which is where Lazar says he was interviewed for the job at S-4, also has no record. It's as if someone has made him disappear. Lazar: "Well, they're trying to make me look non-existent to the places that I called...." Interviewer: "Explain. Called where?" Lazar: "Well, the schools that I went to; the hospital that I was born at; past jobs, and nothing comes up with my name on it." He smiles, but out of futility, knowing the whole thing must sound ridiculous. According to Lazar, his employer was the United States Navy. He says he and other government employees would gather near EG&G, fly to Groom Lake, then a very few people would get into a bus with blacked out or no windows and drive to S-4. Interviewer: "You get off the bus, what do you see?" Lazar: "A very interesting building. Its got a slope of probably about 30 degrees which are hangar doors, and it has textured paint on it, but it looks like sand. It's made to look like the side of the mountain that it is in, whether it's to disguise it from satellite photographs or what...." He says he was never told exactly what he would be working on, but figured it had something to do with advanced propulsion. On his first day he was told to read a series of briefings, and immediately realized how advanced the propulsion really was. Lazar: "The power source is an anti-matter reactor. They run gravity amplifiers. There is actually two parts to the drive mechanism. It's a bizarre technology. There is no physical hookups between any of the systems in there. They use gravity as a wave using wave guides that look like microwaves." It took awhile, Lazar says, before he actually saw one of the flying disks, however there were hints everywhere. Lazar: "Right. They had a poster, and it looked like a commercial poster, like it was lithographed, like you could buy it at K-Mart or someplace, but they were all over the place and it had the disk that I coined the term 'the floor model' which lifted off the ground about 3 feet out at the area, in the Dry Lakes area, and the caption on it said 'They're here.' These posters were all over the place." Later, he got to see the real thing. Lazar: "When I was led in, it was the first time that I saw the 'floor model' in the hangar sitting down, and I was told they could have walked me in the front door but they purposely wanted to walk me by it. I was told not to say anything and to keep my eyes forward and walk past the disk to the office area. And I did. And as we went by it, I just kinda stuck my hands on it, just to run it alongside the thing and uh ....After that I got to see actually lift off the ground and operate." Interviewer: "You actually got to see more than one?" Lazar: "Yeah. The hangars are all connected together. There are large bay doors between each one. There were nine total that I saw, each one being different. Like they had the assortment pack." Security at S-4 was oppressive Lazar said, and his superiors used fear and intimidation almost as a brainwashing tool. Lazar: "They did everything but physically hurt me." Interviewer: "They put a gun to your head?" Lazar: "Yeah." Interviewer: "You mean they actually put a gun to your head?" Lazar: "They did that even in the original security briefing. Guards there with M-16s. Guys there slamming their fingers into my chest, screaming into my ear, they were pointing weapons at me. Like I said, it's not a good place to work." That fear factor would surface later. Lazar agreed to undergo a polygraph exam as part of this report. Polygrapher Ron Clay asked about the technology that Lazar had seen. Polygrapher: "Did you knowingly lie when you had actually seen anti-gravity propulsion in operation?" Lazar: "No." The results of this exam were inconclusive. Lazar appeared to be truthful on one test; deceitful on a second. Clay recommended that a second examiner be brought in. Polygrapher Terry Tabernetti (sp?) runs a corporate security operation and is a former Los Angeles police officer. He put Lazar through four tests and concluded there were no attempts to deceive. Tabernetti sent his test results to a third polygrapher who agreed the results appeared truthful. The charts were then sent to a fourth examiner who did not agree suggesting that Lazar might be relating information he'd learned from someone else. The polygraphers concurred and decided they would not issue a final statement on truthfulness until more specific testing can be conducted. And that's where it stands. Tabernetti believes the difficulty in determining Lazar's truthfulness stems from the fear that was drilled into him. Lazar: "Well, I am telling the truth. I've tried to prove that. What's going on up there could be the most important event in history. You're talking about contact, physical contact and proof from another planet, another system, another intelligence. Thats got to be the biggest event in history, period. And, it's real and it's there. And I had an extremely small part in it. I'm convinced that what I saw is absolute proof of that. There is no way that we could have created those disks. There is no way we could have made the disks, the power supplies, anything that goes with it." Lazar says he has no intention of going on any UFO lecture circuit. He is not looking to do any additional interviews. In fact, he was not too crazy about doing this one. He did it after certain unfavorable things started happening in his life, and he did it because he feels that whoever is running the show up at S- 4 is perpetrating a fraud on the American people and the scientific community. ================================================================= Message #3969 "PN: UFO" Date: 12-Nov-89 01:48 From: Michael Corbin To: All Subj: Correction to the Area 51 transcript SUBJECT: ADDENDUM/CORRECTIONS RE 11/10/89 KLAS-TV/NEVADA TEST SITE/AREA 51 UFO REPORT My introduction to the partial transcript of the program contains certain presumptions -- rather than evidence -- which may be misleading. These presumptions were based on prior SEPARATE KLAS-TV telecasts with Lear and with a "Dennis" -- now revealed as Robert Lazar. > It is interesting to note that Robert Lazar is an associate of > John Lear and has been providing this information to Lear over > the last few months. The extent to which Lazar has interfaced with Lear is unknown. In fact, Lear appears to have had a number of Nevada Test Site sources, any one of whom could have provided him with the Area 51 information. > According to Lear, Lazar was instrumental in providing Lear > with locations overlooking the test site which would provide > a good view of the objects as they flew into the night sky. In fact, it is unknown who -- if anyone -- steered Lear to the specific locations overlooking the Nevada Test Site. Lear has made no statement regarding Lazar in this regard. > As promised at the close of last evening's show, George Knapp, > a news anchorman for Channel 8 in Vegas, stated that a > scientific person would be featured on tonight's program > who has claimed to work at Area 51, the government's > super-secret test range at Nellis AFB in Nevada. Rather than being situated at Nellis Air Force Base in Las Vegas, Area 51 lies in the northeast corner of the U.S. Government's Nevada Test Site at Mercury, Nevada, which is 65 miles north of Nellis Air Force Base. Mike Message #4002 "PN: UFO" Date: 14-Nov-89 03:22 From: Robert Klinn To: All Subj: Area 51: The Nevada Test Site's Supersecret UFO Base? Next Reply is Message #4023 With two top local TV stations here in Las Vegas -- KLAS-TV and KTNV-TV -- carrying deadly serious news reports this week of real alien UFOs POSSIBLY being flown out of the supersecret Area 51, that portion of the U.S. Government's Nevada Test Site which the Air Force refuses to acknowledge as even existing, the situation here appears like The War of the Worlds. Disinformation? Reality? What next? At KTNV-TV, photographer Clay Downey and reporter Glen Meek are tracking down the nature of the on-going projects at Area 51. Off-air, Meek says he has discovered that Area 51 is comprised of four sections. Of those, he has learned the type of activity occurring at two of them. He has been having much difficulty learning the type of activity occurring at the other two. KTNV will broadcast reports this week at 5:30 p.m. Wed., Thurs, & Fri. In a videotape presented by KLAS-TV newsman George Knapp, a UFO performs abrupt manuevers over what may be the "S-4" portion of Area 51 at the Test Site. Knapp's final report will be broadcast tonight, Tuesday at approximately 6:15 p.m. Knapp's star witness is scientist Robert Lazar, who drew a picture of the craft he saw operating at the base. Lazar emphatically claims these are alien craft -- not human-made devices. Lazar says at least one UFO appeared to have been ruptured by a projectile. War of the Worlds? Robert B. Klinn --- QuickBBS v2.04 * Origin: -==- Denver, CO (303)232-6115 (1:104/422) Message #4024 "PN: UFO" Date: 15-Nov-89 01:55 From: Michael Corbin To: All Subj: Installment on Dreamland continued. November 13, 1989 ParaNet Information Service (Denver, CO) -- In our continuing coverage of the remarkable revelations coming out of Las Vegas, Nevada, here is the next installment to the program aired on November 13, 1989 by television station KLAS-TV and George Knapp. ================================================================= News Anchor persons: A former government scientist has alleged that the U.S. military is flying recovered UFOs at a secret base in the Nevada desert. The allegations about the secret facility near the Groom Mountains first surfaced on Eyewitness News on last Friday [November 10, 1989]. Scientist Bob Lazar says that there are at least nine of the flying saucers being tested and that they were not built on Earth. George Knapp has more on the continuation of our series on UFOs. Lazar: "Yeah. It was obvious it came from somewhere else, uh, other than Earth." Scientist Bob Lazar was convinced that the technology he saw being tested at a secret base in the Nevada desert is of alien origin, and for Lazar the proof is, at least, partially in the furniture. One of the nine flying disks he says he saw at the base, which was designated S-4, looks exactly like this UFO photographed in Europe [Photo of UFO shown]. Lazar called it the "sport model." Lazar: "I gave everything names -- the top hat one and you know the jello mold and, uh, the sport model operated without any hitches at all. I mean, it looked new. If I knew what a new flying saucer looked like. One of them looked like it was hit with some sort of a projectile. It had a large hole in the bottom and a large hole in the top with the metal bent out like some sort of, you know, large caliber 4 or 5 inch had gone through it." Even before he saw the sport model operate, Lazar says, he suspected that the ship came from somewhere else. The realization slapped him in the face the first time he glimpsed the inside of the disk. Lazar: "I got to look inside and it had really small chairs. I think that was the first confirmation I had. That was just a shocking thing because everytime before that I was able to label it. This is just a little advance that a group of scientists had formed and, you know, they're keeping it secret, and yeah, we could have built a big disk like that, and yeah, that's no problem, and, you know, we could have adapted the use(?) to make it fly, but why does it have little furniture inside? [garbled]. And things began to click together just all too fast." A few of the disks had been completely dismantled to find out how they worked, Lazar says, but others were fully operational. A Japanese TV network created this animated version of Lazar's story after his first interview with us aired in May [showing video]. Lazar says the dramatization is similar to a test flight he witnessed. Lazar: "The bottom of it glowed blue and began to hiss like any, like high voltage does on a round sphere. It's my impression that the reason that they're round and have no sharp edges is to contain the high voltage like, uh, if you've seen a high voltage system's insulators -- things are round or else you get a corona discharge. In either case, it began to hiss as in high voltage and it lifted off the ground quietly except for that little hiss in the background, and that stopped as soon as it reached about 20 or 30 feet." Lazar says the test of the sport model was a short one -- that it made only a few moves before setting back down. He didn't see who was actually flying the craft, but was very impressed, nonetheless. Lazar: "Well, there's no action reaction system to it. There's no, like in a jet engine, exhaust gas being thrown out -- no propeller, no noise. It's just, for all intents and purposes, magic." To Lazar's knowledge, the flying disks are not being used, for say, any flights to Jupiter. He said excessive caution and intense secrecy contributed to the plodding pace of the program and were a main source of his disenchantment. Lazar: "It's just unfair, outright, not to put it in the hands of the overall scientific community. There are people much more capable of dealing with this information, and by this time would have gotten a lot further along than this small select group of people working out in the middle of the desert. They don't even have the facilities, really, to completely analyze what they're dealing with." Gene Huff: "Well he was being quiet. If he kept me abreast of anything, he kept me abreast of the security checks -- they'd randomly drop by his house. They'd threaten his life; they'd threaten his wife's life. They had done all that so we really didn't converse, I mean, he really was adhering to the program." Gene Huff is a Las Vegas real estate appraiser. A regular guy who just happens to have a friend in the flying saucer business. He learned about Lazar's S-4 experiences only after a long period. Lazar is anxious for people to know that he didn't just run right out and spill the secrets of the universe, and that some things are properly kept confidential. Lazar: "I did not believe that this should be a security matter. Some of it, sure. But, just the concept that there's definite proof, and uh, we even have articles from another world, another system, you just can't not tell everyone. A lot of people don't believe that. But, I do." When he reached what he felt was his bursting point, he took Huff and a few others to the edge of the Groom Mountains to see the flights for themselves. A total of five witnesses on two consecutive weeks managed to dodge security patrols long enough to see the strange glowing object lift above the mountain. Huff(?): "Uh, it came up above the same mountain. It moved around. It did a step move -- it actually went up in the air like this [showing details with hands] and it hovered then dropped way down then it just floated around and cruised around. It starts coming up the mountain range...." This home video tape was recorded during one of the trips to the Groom Mountains [showing video tape. A lot of talking....Object in sight....Mention of brightness of the object....]. Admittedly, the tape proves very little by itself because, with the distance and darkness, there are no reference points other than the alleged flying disk, but Lazar's information about the time and location of the test flight proves correct -- not once but twice. That, according to our off-camera interviews with each of the other witnesses. Gene Huff describes his second sighting: Huff: "Through the telescope we could see an elliptical-shaped light. You can only get so close even with a telescope to a secure facility. Anyway, it came up by us very rapidly. It glowed and glows brighter like a star and we almost got the feeling that it was going to explode, it glowed so brightly. We backed up behind the car then it went down and glowed back up a little bit and then very softly glided back over, back where the mountains where it came up, hovered for awhile, and then that's that....Just like you see in the movies." Bob Lazar isn't the only person to claim "inside knowledge" of the flying disks at the test site -- he is just the only person to say so publicly. We have communicated with several people who say they know of the saucer program. A technician in a highly sensitive position told us it is "common knowledge among those with high security clearances that recovered alien disks are stored at the Nevada test site." A Las Vegas professional, who once served in the military and was stationed at the test site, said he saw a flying disk land outside the boundaries of Area 51 -- that it was quickly surrounded by security personnel and that he was taken away and debriefed for several hours. A man who once worked at Groom Lake as a technician, at our request, wrote this letter explaining how he inadvertently walked into the wrong hangar and saw what appeared to be a large metallic disk under a tarp. It was being examined by men in lab coats. And, an airman who worked at Nellis at a radar installation says he and his fellow servicemen watched over a period of five nights, unusual objects flying over the Groom Mountains. He says the radar images indicates the objects zoomed into range at speeds of 7,000 miles per hour and then would stop on a dime, and that nothing we have is capable of doing that. The airman says that when word of his sighting got out, he was ordered to turn off his radar sensors for that area and told to keep quiet about the matter because it did not happen. None of this means that the military is actually flying alien spacecraft in the Nevada desert. It could all perhaps be explained as some other secret program. Lazar insists that's not the case. We put the matter to the U.S. Navy, which according to Lazar, is running the saucer show. Four different naval offices were contacted. All denied having any information in their files. The Naval Research Lab said it conducted a thorough search but found "zip." Naval Intelligence said much the same thing, adding, it is not required to create a file where one doesn't exist. A side note: We also requested files on a UFO sighting over Tremonton, Utah in 1952. The Navy spent more than a thousand hours studying film of that sighting -- a fact that's been noted in several publications -- but, for purposes of our request, the Navy couldn't find those files either. Lazar: "The group that runs this project, whether it really is the Navy or they just say that, apparently these people have executive power -- they don't report to anyone." Tomorrow, more troubling allegations of the military potential of alien technology. ================================================================= This file is available on ParaNet as Area51-2.ufo. End of file -- -* Don Allen *- InterNet: dona@bilver.UUCP // Amiga..for the best of us. USnail: 1818G Landing Dr, Sanford Fl 32771 \X/ Why use anything else? :-) UUCP: ..uunet!tarpit!bilver!vicstoy!dona 0110 0110 0110 Just say NO! Illuminati < MJ-12|Greys|TLC|CFR|FED|Bilderbergs > UN = "New World Order" Article: 6310 of alt.conspiracy Path: ns-mx!uunet!crdgw1!ge-dab!tarpit!bilver!dona From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy Subject: INFO: Chuck Harder interview of George Knapp -LAZAR Keywords: Robert Lazar -UFO - Area51 Message-ID: <1991Jul4.020919.15517@bilver.uucp> Date: 4 Jul 91 02:09:19 GMT Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL Lines: 631 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:1085 alt.conspiracy:6310 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This information is presented for your persusal and is a continuation of my policy of informing the public what is currently available. The content of this information does NOT necessarily reflect the personal views of the poster,nor should the views,opinions,statements or claims represented in the following be accepted by anyone reading these texts at *face* value. If this interests you, please endeavor to research it yourself and investigate it to *your* satisfaction, and as such I will leave it in your hands to either prove it or de-bunk it :-) As I do not have a great amount of time available to pursue follow-ups exclusively, comments to me should be directed to dona@bilver.uucp in mail. --------------------------------------------------------------------- The following file(s) appeared on the Paranet UFO network in the late 1989 to 1990 time period. The following files are on Robert Lazar and are copyrighted by Paranet to insure their integrity. I have not gotten express permission to re-publish them here; however it's my *intent* to make them available for their informational content only. --------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the Chuck Harder radio interview "For The People" of George Knapp, regarding Robert Lazar. --------------------------------------------------------------------- DATE OF UPLOAD: December 23, 1989 ORIGIN OF UPLOAD: ParaNet Information Service CONTRIBUTED BY: Chuck Harder/Special Correspondent to ParaNet ======================================================== (C) Copyright 1989 ParaNet Information Service All Rights Reserved unless copyrighted by Author. ======================================================== INTERVIEW WITH GEORGE KNAPP OF KLAS-TV (LAS VEGAS, NEVADA) ON NOVEMBER 17, 1989. INTERVIEWED BY CHUCK HARDER, HOST AND MODERATOR OF 'FOR THE PEOPLE' OF THE SUN RADIO NETWORK. CHUCK HARDER My guest has (now) called in and I'm going to run down who he is and where he's from for a number of reasons, some of them for his own protection. George, are you there... GEORGE KNAPP Hello Chuck. CHUCK HARDER Please tell us, you are George Knapp, right... GEORGE KNAPP That's right. CHUCK HARDER George, what do you do for a living? GEORGE KNAPP I'm a journalist with KLAS-TV in Las Vegas, the CBS affiliate here. CHUCK HARDER So you are a TV newsman... GEORGE KNAPP Right. CHUCK HARDER And you work for Channel 8, KLAS-TV in Las Vegas, Nevada... GEORGE KNAPP Right. CHUCK HARDER I understand that you have come upon some very interesting information and you've done some special reports, could you tell us about it...? GEORGE KNAPP Well we just finished a nine-part series -- what may be the longest series that's ever been done on this subject dealing with UFOs. Our research actually started about two and a half years ago, a fellow named John Lear, the son of the guy who invented the Lear Jet brought some of this information to our attention. In May of this year, Mr. Lear introduced us to a fellow who claims to have worked at a secret base designated S-4...on a top-secret Nevada test site...the fellow said that he worked on flying saucers, that the technology was not from Earth, and we interviewed him live in silhouette in May, the response was incredible...we got response from Japan, parts of that interview aired on radio in Europe, and six different European countries...so we decided with this much interest we might want to take a look at the subject in more depth. We started doing that and the first thing we found out is that really UFOs have not been given a fair shake by science, by government, by religion and especially by journalism. Millions of people have seen UFOs, millions more believe...I think the latest Gallup poll shows about 70 percent of college-educated Americans believe that there's something to it, but because of the tabloid aspects...'The Girl Who Gives Birth to 52 UFO Babies' -- kind of things in the National Enquirer, people have shied away from it...Serious people have shied away. Scientists, although they might be interested in searching the universe for radio signals really don't want to look in their own back yard -- they can't get grants...people would laugh at them. Journalism - - the coverage is generally condescending and quirky, especially by the networks, as in the coverage of this UFO that supposedly landed in the USSR, people making fun of it...so, we figured out that millions of people want to know as Roy Neary, the guy in the 'Close Encounters' movie said, 'What's going on?' So we started investigating it. The focal point of the story being this fellow who said he worked at S-4. We broke his identity last Friday. His name is Bob Lazar, he is a former scientist who worked at Los Alamos National Labs, he is a physicist...we did a lot of checking on him and found interestingly enough that his life was disappearing around him. In other words we called Los Alamos Labs and they said they never heard of him. We called MIT where he says he went to school and they had never heard of him. We called for his Birth records and they had disappeared...as if someone was trying to make him a non-person. We did however confirm some of the information that he had given us...we found newspaper articles from Los Alamos indicating that he had indeed worked there...we found an old telephone book from the lab with his name in it, which gave him a certain amount of credibility in our eyes. The story he tells is an incredible one. He was hired to work at this area called S-4 on the test site, he was flown up to a place called Groom Lake -- taken by bus with no windows to S-4...the base is built almost to look like its part of the desert with sand covered hanger doors, he goes inside and he starts reading these briefing papers dealing with UFOs! Pictures of UFOs on the walls, pictures of aliens, autopsy reports on alien bodies...things of this nature -- he's pretty amazed. Then he sees the discs. He says there are nine of the discs up there, they are powered by an anti-matter reactor which produces its own gravitational field...technology that does not exist on this planet, and the interesting thing...he thought for a while that perhaps it was just an advanced secret scientific project that our government is pursuing until he looked inside one of the discs and noticed the small furniture...all the chairs were built like for children...and then things started coming together for him. Are you with me Chuck? CHUCK HARDER I'm listening. GEORGE KNAPP Er, I'm not sure how much detail you want me to go in on... CHUCK HARDER Oh I think you ought to keep going. GEORGE KNAPP Well, this fellow was up there for only a few months. And it was a rough place for him to work...the security was so hard and he was being harassed at home, his phones being tapped...plus he's on to what he thinks are the secrets of the universe...he starts to tell other people about it, confide with close friends. CHUCK HARDER Ummmmmm..... GEORGE KNAPP He had the date of a couple of tests and on two consecutive weekends he took people up into the desert outside of the boundaries of area S-4, and they video taped the saucers...what looks like a saucer coming over the mountains! CHUCK HARDER Wow... GEORGE KNAPP We showed that video as well... CHUCK HARDER Uh-huh.... GEORGE KNAPP Five different people that we interviewed that had gone up there confirmed the same story...we also had confirmation of other bits of his story from other people, a former security guard who worked up there...who said he had seen the saucers, a former technician... CHUCK HARDER By the way, excuse me, I have some letters from some people postmarked from that area, one inside of a base, who tells me what you're saying is true. Keep going. GEORGE KNAPP Ah, we also found a Nellis Airman who had been on radar duty at Nellis airbase which is here just south of the area that this fellow is talking about...he reported numerous times seeing... CHUCK HARDER George, excuse me...let me do the half hour news break, I want you to tell your story, I want America to hear it...please stand by. >>>>At this point the SUN RADIO NETWORK runs the half hour news headlines and sports audio package from UPI<<<< (After news the guest is re-introduced for listeners who may have just tuned in...) CHUCK HARDER How many reports did you do, George? GEORGE KNAPP We did nine total in this series. CHUCK HARDER Ok, now at the time we went to news on the half hour you told me that a scientist named Bob Lazar... GEORGE KNAPP Right... CHUCK HARDER Ok, came to you and came to the public and apparently was concerned for his safety because he wanted to tell America or get news out that - yes, the Federal Government has nine saucers, and yes they are near...it's near Nellis, is it not? GEORGE KNAPP Yes. CHUCK HARDER Cause I have letters from people who are at Nellis. Some of which don't want to give their name, some of which gave their name, I have the postmarks. Tell us now if you would, start the story from the fact that the gentleman has revealed that there are nine of these things. We're listening and so is America. GEORGE KNAPP Well, we wanted to try to confirm as much of his story as possible from other sources of course, so we started looking for other people who might have knowledge of what's going on up there...as I mentioned, I found a former security guard who said that he had seen the saucers up there, I found a former technician who said that he had walked into a room inadvertently and saw one under a tarp, we found a Nellis airman who had worked in radar and said that basically he and his fellow airman has seen these things flying over the Groom Mountains at speeds up to 7,000 miles per hour on radar...these things would stop on a dime, so the guy knew that this is not your average airplane that's doing this. We also interviewed the other people who went with Lazar up on two consecutive weeks, they test them on Wednesdays for some reason, and videotaped the tests, saw these things flying over the mountains and confirmed his story as well. We put these questions to the Navy, who Lazar says he worked for up there -- we made Freedom of Information Act requests for information about the various specific programs he mentioned, of course the Navy denied having any information on the programs. Of course in those requests we also asked for other information about UFOs, stuff the Navy has already released and they denied having that information as well -- so I don't put a lot of faith in the FOIA requests. CHUCK HARDER In other words, what you're saying is that your organization which is KLAS-TV in Las Vegas, plus many other UFO research groups have uncovered many UFO documents that the government says, 'Yeah, we got them and yeah it's true'...but then when you ask them again they say, 'No, we don't have them!' GEORGE KNAPP Exactly...that's exactly correct! CHUCK HARDER I understand from MUFON and many other groups that there are somewhere from four to seven thousand documents that prove that...yes these things exist, copies of the documents are in private hands, then you go and ask the government and they say, 'Well, er, no we don't remember...' GEORGE KNAPP The government says that they have done these studies that say that UFOs are no threat to national security, they're either psychological aberrations, which means that people are nuts when they see them, that's what they feed the public...but behind the scenes they are very concerned about the national security implications of UFOs that land at nuclear missile bases and can't be caught, things of that nature. So the government from what I've read is very concerned about the phenomena and doesn't really understand it. The government on the other hand has outright lied concerning what information it does have...the CIA for example says it doesn't collect any information on UFOs...well that's just patently not true. We have documents from the CIA, a lot of it is blacked out, which mentions UFO studies by the CIA, UFO research, CIA-UFO experts, agency personnel who are monitoring the phenomenon, so they have lied to us all along. I didn't expect to get any confirmation regarding what Lazar has to say, but had to give it a try anyway. CHUCK HARDER Before we went to the half-hour break you said that when he looked inside one of these discs there were little furniture, give me some information... GEORGE KNAPP Well he feels that they were bringing him along, giving him a piece at a time. He would see a saucer one day, the next he would see the hanger doors open and see all nine of them...after that he got to see the inside of the thing. He also got to see a demonstration of it. He was told to stand back and watch this...and the thing lights up real bright...I guess the power that's produced is incredible, you need to produce your own gravitational field and it raised up, he wasn't sure who was flying it or was it remotely or what. He watched it raise up, did a couple of maneuvers and sat back down. Part of the reason he came forward, not to spill the secrets of the universe or the government, but because the research that's being done up there is being handled in a clumsy fashion. If they have had these for as long as forty years, which is what he believes, they haven't come to far in trying to understand them. Some of the discs he said he saw up there were being taken apart, kind of a reverse archaeology process to figure out how they worked. Some of the research going on up there is aimed at trying to duplicate the things that these machines can do using earth technologies and earth materials and he says it just can't be done. The key to the flying of the things is something he calls 'Element 115'...it does not exist on our periodic charts, he believes that wherever it came from its a naturally occurring element, he says we have 500 pounds of this stuff up there, just a little tiny sliver of it produces incredible amounts of power. Its the '115' that we will not be able to duplicate so he thinks...one of the reasons that he came forward is because scientists all over the world are working, putting their energy into trying to master the secrets of gravity and the secrets of anti-matter technology and here we've got it up there and they're not doing a very good job with it -- this little batch of scientists hidden out in the desert are trying to figure it out and not doing a very good job... CHUCK HARDER But this is kind of common with the United States government...I read a tremendous amount of material...I read a tremendous amount of material...I read five newspapers a day and I'll find where one group in one part of the country is working on a project and I'll get a clipping where another group is working on the same project, I've contacted them and they don't know of each other! GEORGE KNAPP Yeah, Yeah -- that's exactly right...he said the compartmentalization up there was very severe as well so that nobody had the full picture -- I guess so nobody could spill the beans as he has been trying to do. CHUCK HARDER Alright, what does he feel the public should know and what does he feel should be done? GEORGE KNAPP Well, he's not on a campaign, what he really wanted to do was to save his own life. He started having some problems when it became obvious to his employers that he was telling someone else about this. CHUCK HARDER We're talking about Bob Lazar now... GEORGE KNAPP Bob Lazar...his phone being tapped, people visiting him, calling him up with a single word message -- DEAD -- then they hang up! He tried to arrange meetings with his former supervisor and the meetings didn't come off, he says somebody took a shot at him on the freeway...obviously he realizes that if they really wanted to kill him, they could. Maybe perhaps they were just trying to shut him up. He feels that what is going on up there is a crime against the entire scientific community...not only the American people because we don't know what's going on and we haven't been told alien technology exists, but also against the scientific community. So, what else can I tell ya? CHUCK HARDER What does he say about the aliens? GEORGE KNAPP He's reluctant to talk about that, apparently he did see some aliens up there... CHUCK HARDER Excuse me, are you telling me there were live aliens? GEORGE KNAPP Yeah, he's kind of sketchy on the details of that, and I don't think I should go much further on that...part of the discussion until I can talk to him, but he has indications that there are aliens up there, at least one... CHUCK HARDER Live? GEORGE KNAPP Yeah, it's pretty wild, I know and I didn't include that in our reports because I couldn't confirm any thing of that nature, I couldn't find anyone else who had seen them up there so... CHUCK HARDER What did they look like? GEORGE KNAPP Your classic Grey...the little big-headed almond eyed-grey skinned being...the same ones in the classic descriptions of the UFO literature...he's kind of squeamish talking about it as well because it sounds so crazy... CHUCK HARDER I don't think it's crazy at all, there was an article, let me digress for a moment, there was an article yesterday on the front page of The Wall Street Journal where the FDA that stopped all of the grapes from Chile last March...apparently somebody laced two of the grapes with cyanide a couple of hours before the FDA, stumbled on them and it was an inside job apparently while the grapes were in the inspection station...and it was not done on the way, so somebody's lying there -- we're talking of two little grapes that almost bankrupted the country of Chile! If two little grapes...and such a story hits the front page of The Wall Street Journal about the questions about the truthfulness and what happened with the FDA, what about this...how would this ever get out if they would cover up a story about TWO LITTLE GRAPES?! GEORGE KNAPP Well, I tell you we asked the question, the obvious question, if this is true; how can the government keep this a secret all this time? A story this big -- the government leaks like a sieve on other things, how could the coverup exist? CHUCK HARDER Oh, I'll tell you... GEORGE KNAPP To which Lazar responds, this is the easiest...and he asked the question to his superiors up there, it's the easiest thing in the world to keep a secret because if it does come out, little bits and pieces, who's going to believe it? CHUCK HARDER Exactly...let me, you remember the Condon Report, do you not? GEORGE KNAPP Yes... CHUCK HARDER For those who are listening, I got into this investigation because I kept getting letters from our listeners who said, Chuck you ought to investigate this...we've investigated many things in the past such as the GM Diesel coverup, we're working on a pay phone coverup, we've done things with Ralph Nader...and so on. So we started buying the books and contacting UFO organizations. I then found that there was a guy named Phil Klass who was always there...somehow he as always there and he said that everything was bunk! And of course, he works for the Aviation Week magazine which is of course is the mouthpiece for the Military/Industrial complex and they certainly wouldn't want this technology to be out! I was also amazed when I saw the stealth bomber (tests) live on CNN one Saturday and a small plane landed at the same place, (runway) do you remember that...? GEORGE KNAPP Yes... CHUCK HARDER My question is: If the Stealth Bomber was so super-secret, how could a man and his children land their little tiny plane on the same runway at a super-secret airforce base? How could he have pierced the radar and fighter jets and so forth? My feeling was, probably the Stealth Bomber was obsolete and nobody was watching! GEORGE KNAPP Yeah, I'd have to agree with you, because the security up there...the only thing that comes out of that place is what they want out of it. CHUCK HARDER So what your talking about then, since the Condon Committee, Phil Klass and all the of the spokespeople who are supposed to know everything, what your saying is the ridicule factor...if Billy Bob sees a flying saucer and even has a photo of it and takes it to the paper, everybody laughs at him! GEORGE KNAPP There are actual documents the government has released (Under Freedom of Information Act) that show it has an active program that started back in the fifties...the CIA even used the term DEBUNKING, there were discussions about using Walt Disney to produce cartoons that made fun of people who had seen flying saucers...they were going to bring Arthur Godfrey in as their spokesperson. Phil Klass as you mentioned, he's explained away UFO sightings seen by thousands of people as the constellation ORION, when you can only see ORION from the other side of the planet. CHUCK HARDER Uh huh... GEORGE KNAPP He uses things like Ball Lightning, plasma balls to explain the sightings where plasma balls only last for a few seconds and the examples that he is trying to explain occur in cloudless skies where there is no lightning around. You mention the Condon report, that's a perfect example of the kinds of things that the government has done in the past, they commission a study, it's supposed to be THE STUDY, but the guy they hire to run the thing, Edward Condon had before he even started, that there was nothing to UFOs, the government should get out of it, and he also said at one point that the authors of UFO books should be HORSEWHIPPED! One of the explanations that came from the Condon Committee witnessed by several people, they described it as, a natural phenomena so rare that it has never been seen before or since! I don't think this kind of a thing is an accident! CHUCK HARDER Ok, the Soviet Union and Tass gave their report (of a UFO) and from what I have heard there are different kinds of aliens, some have been coming here for years and years and it's nothing new... GEORGE KNAPP Right... CHUCK HARDER Why is it in some parts of the world (now) they report other types of humanoids and other types of vehicles...I happen to have beautiful photos of some, and as I told you off-the-air, we're going to be releasing them in our upcoming magazine if someone doesn't stick a dagger through my heart... GEORGE KNAPP You're talking about the Billy Meier case, if you want to touch on that, we also did some investigation on that... CHUCK HARDER Ok, go ahead. GEORGE KNAPP Billy Meier, I've always been intrigued by that, and wanted to check them out. Its been pretty much written-off by the UFO community but when we put questions to them about the case they can't explain exactly why so we traveled to Phoenix and talked to Lee Elders one of the lead investigators on the Billy Meier case and started going over the evidence. The photos had been analyzed by independent experts, the film footage and video had been analyzed, the metal sample had been confirmed as something we don't have -- technology of cold fusion was used to produce this metal, the landing sites, the strange circular patterns in the grass that are now only gaining attention in Britain and other countries, all of this stuff had never been pretty much discounted by the UFO community because Elders and Wendelle Stevens had gone outside of the UFO community to get confirmation. The UFO people were kept out of it, the Billy Meier case I think exemplifies the biggest weakness in UFOLOGY and that's the jealousy that permeates the field...everybody wants to be the only one with the real story of UFOs, so they kind of written this guy off only because he didn't cooperate with them. CHUCK HARDER We have been able to get some photos from a source who has some negatives that were just recently located...some from ten feet away, I used to be in the motion picture business. If they are models they cost thousands of dollars and I doubt if a simple Swiss farmer could have done it... GEORGE KNAPP I'd agree with ya, the reason we got interested in Billy Meier, it goes back to Lazar, was because Bob Lazar says, the saucer that he saw fly, he dubbed it the sport model, was the same saucer in the Meier photos, exactly the same. CHUCK HARDER The new ones or the old ones? GEORGE KNAPP The new one. CHUCK HARDER Ok, that's the one we've got. GEORGE KNAPP Going back to the things he saw (Lazar) at S-4, he saw the nine saucers, he said all nine of them were different, like we got the variety pack, but the one he saw fly was like the one in the Meier photo. (There are Three types photographed by Billy Meier.) That's why we decided to check out the Meier part of the (UFO) story. >>>>At this point Chuck Harder tells George Knapp that there is a break coming up and after the break would he please tell Mr. and Mrs. America what they should do to get the truth.<<<< CHUCK HARDER I hope that Mr. and Mrs. America make note of the name George Knapp and Bob Lazar so that if anything ever happens to them, you know why. GEORGE KNAPP Someone should tell us what's going on...TV and movies have conditioned us...we won't panic...Jimmy Carter when he ran for President promised that if he was elected that he vowed to open all the UFO files and he didn't -- we wrote to him asking why and he didn't respond. We want the government to come clean. If that takes a Congressional Investigation...that's something that should be looked at. If it is launched we have to make sure that there are no CIA, contractors and the like involved otherwise people aren't going to believe it. We've seen enough of this whitewash stuff over the years. If there's nothing to the story, then open up the files and prove it to us! CHUCK HARDER OK, have the government let the press into these areas and don't first clean them out... ================================================================= 1117NAP.UFO End of File -- -* Don Allen *- InterNet: dona@bilver.UUCP // Amiga..for the best of us. USnail: 1818G Landing Dr, Sanford Fl 32771 \X/ Why use anything else? :-) UUCP: ..uunet!tarpit!bilver!vicstoy!dona 0110 0110 0110 Just say NO! Illuminati < MJ-12|Greys|TLC|CFR|FED|Bilderbergs > UN = "New World Order" Article: 6311 of alt.conspiracy Path: ns-mx!uunet!crdgw1!ge-dab!tarpit!bilver!dona From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy Subject: INFO: Project Bluebook -UNKNOWNS- Part 1 Keywords: Project Bluebook UFO's Message-ID: <1991Jul4.021512.15602@bilver.uucp> Date: 4 Jul 91 02:15:12 GMT Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL Lines: 663 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:1086 alt.conspiracy:6311 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This information is presented for your persusal and is a continuation of my policy of informing the public what is currently available. The content of this information does NOT necessarily reflect the personal views of the poster,nor should the views,opinions,statements or claims represented in the following be accepted by anyone reading these texts at *face* value. If this interests you, please endeavor to research it yourself and investigate it to *your* satisfaction, and as such I will leave it in your hands to either prove it or de-bunk it :-) As I do not have a great amount of time available to pursue follow-ups exclusively, comments to me should be directed to dona@bilver.uucp in mail. --------------------------------------------------------------------- The following files (6) are from the work of Don Berliner, who compiled a listing of the Project Bluebook "unknowns" . This is part 1: ----------Bluebook Part 1 ----------------------------------------------- THE BLUE BOOK UNKNOWNS ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The unexplained UFO reports from the files of the U.S. Air Force's Project Blue Book UFO investigations. Compiled by Don Berliner, for the Fund for UFO Research ~~~~~~~~~~~~ the conclusions or views expressed in this publication are the views of the author(s) and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the Fund for UFO Research, Inc. THE UNEXPLAINED UFO CASES FROM THE PROJECT BLUE BOOK FILES ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ In January, 1974, I visited the U.S. Air Force Archives at Maxwell AFB, Montgomery, Ala., to review the files of Project Blue Book as the first step toward writing a book on the subject. In a full week, I read all the "unexplained" cases in the original files and made extensive notes, including the names and other identifying information on all witnesses where given. The cooperation of the staff of the Archives was excellent, and no restrictions were placed on my work. A few months later, the files were withdrawn from public view so they could be prepared for transfer to the National Archives in Washington, D.C. This process involved making a xerox copy of almost 30 file drawers of material, blacking out the names and other identifiers of all witnesses, and then microfilming the censored xerox copy. The microfilm has been available to the public at the National Archives since 1976. The original Project Blue Book files remain under lock and key at the Archives. On almost every page of the 12,000+ case files, there are big black marks where information that could be used to cross-check Project Blue Book's controversial work has been censored. This includes the names of witnesses to widely-publicized cases, and even names in newspaper clippings! As it was perfectly legal for me to copy witness' names when I visited the Air Force Archives, those names can be found in this report of 585 (less 13 missing) unexplained cases. And since the Privacy Act, which motivated the Air Force to censor the files in the first place, does not apply to reporters or anyone else outside the Government, they can be used as the reader pleases. Inasmuch as the book I planned to write has never progressed beyond the manuscript stage, I see no reason to keep this information under wraps any longer. Perhaps it will encourage others to re-investigate cases and make the results known. "Unidentified" says a great deal...and it says almost nothing. Probably the most controversial aspect of the entire Air Force investigation of UFOs was its handling of individual cases. The means by.which one case was determined to be "identified" and another "unidentified" has no doubt fueled more arguments about Project Blue Book than anything else it did. For many years, Blue Book's most vocal opponents have insisted that the standards by which cases were allegedly explained were grossly unscientific. Blue Book's goal, according to those who held it low esteem, was to attach some explanation to every case, regardless of logic or common sense. Examples of Blue Book saying a violently maneuvering disc was an aircraft, or of blaming a puzzling radar tracking on a supposedly malfunctioning radar set which it never bothered to check out, are numerous in the popular UFO literature. And they are even more numerous in the files of Project Blue Book. The urgency with which Blue Book officials tagged answers onto cases without having done the proper investigation is obvious, though not proven. But if the Air Force was so eager to label cases "identified", despite the lack of supporting evidence, then those few cases which it labeled "unidentified" presumably withstood every attempt to apply every other kind of label. And so it may be that those cases are truly unidentifiable in familiar terms. Indeed, the Air Force defines "unidentifiable" cases as those which "apparently contain all pertinent data necessary to suggest a valid hypothesis concerning the lack of explanation of the report, but the description of the object or its motion cannot be correlated with any known object or phenomenon." To meet such criteria, a report must obviously come from a reputable source, and it must not bear any resemblance to airplanes, balloons, helicopters, spacecraft, birds, clouds, stars, planets, meteors, comets, electrical phenomena, or anything else known to frequent the air, the sky, or nearby space. Unfortunately, the Air Force failed to stick to its own rules. Some of the "unidentifiable" cases most certainly can be correlated with known objects or phenomena. But most of them cannot. Moreover, many of the so-called "identified" cases cannot honestly be so correlated. But we are primarily concerned here with those cases which Project Blue Book openly admits it tried to explain and failed. The amount of detail in these cases varies enormously. Some cases - frequently those which were well publicized at the time of the event - contain considerable information, while others are vague and seriously incomplete. Project Blue Book generally placed the blame for such incompleteness on the witnesses, but it should take its own share of the responsibility. 'In thousands of cases, there is no completed questionnaire in the Project files, nor even any indication that one was sent to the witness. And in most of the instances where a questionnaire was filled out, it was never followed up to get more complete answers to questions which the witnesses failed to deal with properly. For much of the life of Project Blue Book and its predecessors, there was no satisfactory.questionnaire at all. And one of those used for a lengthy period was so badly organized that a witness should not be held to blame for giving incomplete answers. Yet, despite all the roadblocks, many reports are sufficiently complete to tell a pretty clear story of a puzzling experience. With this data now available, anyone can look at Project Blue Book's "unidentified" UFO reports and make up his own mind. July 3, 1947; Harborside, Maine. 2:30 p.m. EDT. Witness: astronomer John Cole of South Brooksville, Me. Watched 10-15 seconds while ten very light objects, with two dark forms to their left, moved like a swarm of bees to the northwest. A loud roar was heard. July 4, 1947; over Emmet, Idaho. 8:17 p.m. PDT. Witnesses: United Air Lines Capt. E.J. Smith, First Officer Ralph Stevens, Stewardess Marty Morrow. Watched for 12-15 minutes while four objects with flat bottoms and rough tops moved at varying speeds, with one high and to the right of the others. July 6, 1947; Fairfield-Suisan Air Base, California. Daytime. Witnesses: Army Air Forces Capt. and Mrs. James Burniston. Watched for 1 minute while one object having no wings or tail rolled from side-to-side three times and then flew away very fast to the southeast. July 8, 1947; Muroc Air Base, California. 9:30 a.m. PDT. Witnesses: lst Lt. Joseph McHenry, T/Sgt Ruvolo, S/Sgt Nauman, Miss Janette Scotte. Watched for an unstated length of time while two disc-shaped or spherical objects--silver and apparently metallic--flew a wide circular pattern, and then one of them later flew a tighter circle. July 9, 1947; Meridian, Idaho. 12:17 p.m. PDT. Witness: Idaho statesman aviation editor and former (AAF) B-29 pilot Dave Johnson. Watched for more than 10 seconds from an Idaho Air National Guard AT-6 while a black disc, which stood out against the clouds, made a half-roll and then a stair-step climb. July 10, 1947; Harmon Field, Newfoundland, Canada. Between 3 and 5 p.m. local time. Witnesses: three ground crewmen, including Mr. Leidy, for Pan American Airways. Watched briefly while one translucent disc- or wheel-shaped object flew very fast, leaving a dark blue trail and then ascended and cut a path through the clouds. July 29, 1947; Hamilton Air Base, California. 2:50 p.m. PDT. Witnesses: Assistant Base Operations Officer Capt. William Rhyerd, ex-AAF B-29 pilot Ward Stewart. Watched for unknown length of time while two round, shiny, white objects with estimated 15-25 foot diameters, flew 3-4 times the apparent speed of a P-80, also in sight. One object flew straight and level; the other weaved from side-to-side like an escort fighter. Sept. 3, 1947; Oswego, Oregon. 12:15 p.m. PDT. Witness: housewife Mrs. Raymond Dupui. Watched for unknown length of time as 12-15 round, silver objects flew an unstated pattern. Oct., 1947; Dodgeville, Wisconsin. 11 unnamed civilian man. Watched for 1 hour while an undescribed object flew counterclockwise circles. Oct. 14, 1947; 11 mi. NNE of Cave Creek, Arizona. Noon MDT. Witnesses: ex-AAF fighter pilot J.L. Clark, civilian pilot Anderson, third man. Watched 45-60 seconds while one 3-foot "flying wing"-shaped object, which looked black against the white clouds and red against the blue sky, flew straight at an estimated 380 m.p.h., at 8-10,000 feet, from NW to SE. April 5, 1948; Holloman AFB, New Mexico. Afternoon. Witnesses: Geophysics Lab balloon observers Alsen, Johnson, Chance. Two irregular, round, white or golden objects. One made three loops then rose and disappeared rapidly; the other flew in a fast arc to the west during the 3O^second sighting. July 29, 1948: Indianapolis, Indiana. 9:88 a.m. witness*: James Toney, Robert Huggins, both employees of a rug cleaning firm. One shiny aluminum object, shaped something like an airplane's propeller, with 10-12 small cups protruding from either blade. Estimated size 6-8' long, 1.5-2' wide. The object glided across the road a few hundred feet in front of their vehicle and apparently went down in a wooded area. Sighting lasted a few seconds. July 31, 1948; Indianapolis, Indiana. 8:25 a.m. Witnesses: Mr. and Mrs. Vernon Swigert; he was an electrician. Object was shaped like a cymbal, or domed disc; about 20' across and 6-8' thick, and was white without any shine. It flew straight and level from horizon to horizon in about 10 seconds, shimmering in the sun as if spinning. July or August, 1948; vicinity of Marion, Virginia. Shortly after sunset. Witness: Max Abbott, flying a Bellanca Cruisair four-passenger private airplane. A single bright white light accelerated and turned up a valley. Sept. 23, 1948; San Pablo, California. 12 noon. Witnesses: Sylvester Bentham and retired U.S. Army Col. Horace Eakins. Two objects: one, a buff or grey rectangle with vertical lines; the other a translucent "amoeba" with a dark spot near the center. The arms of the "amoeba" undulated. Both objects travelled very fast. Oct. 15, 1948; Fusuoka, Japan. 11:05 p.m. Witnesses: pilot Halter and radar operator Hemphill of a P-61 "Black Widow" night fighter. Up to six objects tracked on radar, only one seen visually. Dull or dark object shaped like a dirigible with a flat bottom and clipped tail end. Six seen on radar separately Pilot attempted to close on visual object, but it dove away fast. Dec. 3, 1948; Fairfield-Suisan AFB, California. 8:15 p.m. Witness: USAF Sgt., control tower operator. One round, white light flew for 25 seconds with varying speed, bouncing motion, and finally a rapid erratic climb. Jan. 4, 1949; Hickam Field, Hawaii. 2 p.m. Witness: USAF pilot Capt. Paul Storey, on ground. one flat white, elliptical object with a matte top circled while oscillating to the right and left, and then sped away. Jan. 27, 1949; Cortez-Bradenton, Florida. 10:20 p.m. Witnesses: Capt. Sames, acting chief of the Aircraft Branch, Eglin AFB, and Mrs. Sames. They watched for 25 minutes while a cigar-shaped object as long as two Pullman cars and having seven lighted square windows and throwing sparks, descended and then climbed with a bouncing motion at an estimated 400 m.p.h. March 17, 1949; Camp Hood, Texas. 7:52 p.m. Witnesses: guards of the 2nd Armored Division. While awaiting the start of a flare firing, they watched, for an hour, while eight large, green, red and white flare-like objects flew in generally straight lines. April 3, 1949; Dillon, Montana. 11:55 a.m. Witnesses: construction company owner Gosta Miller and three other unnamed persons. One object shaped like two plates attached face-to-face; matte bottom, bright aluminum top; 20' diameter, 4-5' thickness. It rocked or rotated in six cycles, descended, rocked, flew, rocked; all this was very fast. April 4, 1949; Merced, California. 10:20 p.m. witness: William Parrott, former Air Force pilot and major. One generally round object with a curved bottom and dull coloring. The object gave off a clicking sound until overhead. Parrott's dog reacted. 35 seconds. April 24, 1949; Arrey, New Mexico. l0:30 a.m. Witnesses: General Mills meteorologist and balloon expert C.B. Moore and others on a balloon launch crew. One white, round ellipsoid, about 2.5 times as long as wide. April 28, 1949; Tucson, Arizona. 5:45 p.m. Witnesses: Howard Hann, Mr. Hubert, Tex Keahey. One bright, sausage-shaped object was observed for 40 minutes while it rolled and flew fast. May 5, 1949; Ft. Bliss, Texas. 11:40 a.m. Witnesses: Army officers Maj. Day, Maj. Olhausen, Capt. Vaughn. Two oblong white discs, flying at an estimated 200-250 m.p.h., made a shallow turn during the 30-50 second observation. May 6, 1949; Livermore, California. 9:35 a.m. Witness: C. G. Green. Two shiny, disc-like objects rotated around each other and banked. Then one shot upwards with a grey trail and rejoined the other. The sighting lasted 5 minutes. May 9, 1949; Tucson, Arizona. 2:30 p.m. Witness: M/Sgt. Troy Putnam. Two round, flat silvery objects, estimated to be 25' in diameter, flew 750-1,000 m.p.h. in a banked but steady manner. May 27, 1949; South-central Oregon. 2:25 p.m. Witness: Joseph Shell, ferrying SNJ trainer for North American Aviation, from Red Bluff, California, to Burns, Oregon. Five to eight oval objects, twice as long as wide, and 1/5 as thick. They flew in trail formation, with an interval equal to 3-4 times their length, except that the second and third were closer together. July 24, 1949; Mountain Home, Idaho. 12 noon. Witness: Henry Clark, manager of a flying service, flying a Piper Clipper. Seven delta-shaped objects, 35-55' in span, 20-30' long, 2-5' thick; light colored except for a 12' diameter dark circle at the rear of each. They flew in a tight formation of twos with one behind, and made a perfect, but unbanked, turn. During the 10 minute sighting, they displayed decreasing smooth oscillations. Clark's engine ran rough during the sighting, and upon landing was found to have all its spark plugs burned out. July 30, 1949; Mt. Hood, Oregon. 9 p.m. Witnesses: Northwest Airlines Capt. Thrush, two Portland control tower operators, and one flying instructor. One object with one white light and two red lights, maneuvered and hovered. Feb 5, 1950; Teaticket, Massachusetts. 5:10 p.m. Witnesses: Marvin Odom, former U.S. Navy fighter pilot, USAF Lt. Philip Foushee, pilot from Otis AFB, and two others. Two thin, illuminated cylinders, one of which dropped a fireball, maneuvered together and then disappeared high and fast after 5 minutes. Feb. 24, 1950; Albuquerque, New Mexico. 1:55 p.m. Witnesses: Municipal Airport Weather Observers Luther McDonald, Harrison Manson. One white, slightly elongated oval was watched for 1.5 minutes through a theodolite while it flew straight and level. Feb. 25, 1950; Los Alamos, New Mexico. 3:55 p.m. Witnesses: Twelve Atomic Energy Commission security inspectors. One cylinder with tapered ends, silver and flashing, flew slow and hen fast, fluttered and oscillated, and changed course. observations by individuals varied from 3 seconds to 2 minutes. arch 3, 1950; Selfridge AFB, Michigan. 11:05 p.m. Witness: st Lt Frank Mattson. One intense, dull yellowish light descended vertically, then flew straight and level very fast for 4 minutes. March 20, 1950; Stuggart, Arkansas. 9:26 p.m. Witnesses: Chicago & Southern Airlines Capt. Jack Adams, First Officer G. W. Anderson, Jr. One 100' circular disc with 9-12 portholes along the lower side emitting a soft purple light, and a light at the top which flashed 3 times in 9 seconds, flew at not less than 1,000 m.p.h. It was seen for 25-35 seconds. March 27, 1980; Motobo, Okinawa. 10:30 a.m. Witness: USAF radar operator Cpl. Bolfango. Tracked on radar for 2 minutes while it was stationary and then moved at 500 m.p.h.. Visual observation not detailed, only mentioned in summary. March 28, 1950; Santiago, Chile. 3:15 p.m. Witness: M/Sgt. Patterson, of the office of the U.S. Air Attache. One white object observed for 5-10 seconds through binoculars while it flew high and fast, crossing 30^ of sky. March 29, 1950; Marrowbore Lake, Tennessee. 7 a.m. Witnesses: real estate salesmen Whiteside and Williams. Six-twelve dark objects shaped like 300-lb. bombs, estimated 5 feet long. Flew 500 m.p.h. and descended, making a noise like wind blowing through the trees. April 8, 1950; Kokomo, Indiana. 2 a.m. Witness: Earl Baker. One grey metallic disc, 50' in diameter, 15' thick; top-shaped with a "conning tower" at the top and three ports on the rim giving off a blue light. It hovered for 2 minutes, then flew away. Baker aroused from sleep by his dog. April 14, 1950; Ft. Monmouth, New Jersey. 2:30 p.m. Witness: Army M/Sgt. James. Four rectangular, amber objects, about 3' by 4'. changed speed and direction rapidly; the group of objects rose and fell during the 3-4 minute sighting. May 7, 1950; Nine miles sough of Ely, Nevada. 6:45 p.m. Witnesses: Mr. and Mrs. George Smith and their grandson. One silvery white object hovered at 100' altitude, moved back and forth for 10 minutes and then flew up and away. Note in case file: "No investigation." June 27, 1950; Texarkana, Texas. 7:50 a.m. Witnesses: Terrell and Yates, employees of Red River Arsenal. One object, bright, shaped like two dishpans face-to-face, flew straight and level, fast for 4-5 seconds. July 13, 1950; Redstone Arsenal, Alabama. 5 p.m. Witnesses: two skilled Arsenal employees including Mr. Washburn. one object, shaped like a bowtie, and like polished aluminum. Flew straight and level, then one triangle rotated 1/4 turn in the opposite direction and returned to its original position. The object then made a right-angle turn and accelerated away after at least 30 seconds. Aug. 4, 1950; approx. 100 mi. SE of New York City (39' 35' N., 72' 24.5' W.). 10 a.m. EDT. Witnesses: Master Nils Lewring, Chief Mate Jacob Koelwyn, Third Mate, of M/V Marcala. One 10' cylindrical object at 50-100' altitude, flying with a churning or rotary motion, accelerated at end of 15 second sighting. Aug. 20, 1950; Nicosia, Cyprus. 1:30 p.m. Witnesses: USAF MATS liaison officer Lt. William Ghormley, Col. W. V. Brown, Lt. col. L.w. Brauer. One small, round, bright object flew fast, straight and level for 15-20 seconds. Aug. 25, 1950; approx. 250 mi. SW of Bermuda (29' 40' N., 67* 28' W.). 8 p.m. Witness: B-29 radarman S/Sgt. William Shaffer. Radar observation, plus possible blue streak 3 minutes later. B-29 followed unidentified target, then passed it at l/4-mile distance, target followed for 5 minutes, then passed B-29 and sped away. Total time of tracking: 20 minutes. Aug. 30, 1950; Sandy Point, Newfoundland, Canada. 1:30 p.m. Witnesses: three local employees, including Kaeel and Alexander, of the Air Force Base. A dark, barrel-shaped object with a pole down from it into the water, flew at 3-5 m.p.h. and 15-20' altitude for 5 minutes. Sept. 3, 1950; Spokane, Washington. 2 p.m. Witnesses: Maj R.J. Gardiner, Mrs. Gardiner and neighbor (former saw three objects, others saw one). Metallic bronze discs, 20-30' long, 2-6' thick. Moved independently and erratically for 5 minutes. Sept. 20, 1950; Kit Carson, Colorado. 10:49 a.m. Witness identified only as a "reliable source". Two large, round, glowing objects and three smaller, internally lit objects. Two hovered for 1 minute, moved, and three smaller ones came from behind or within the two larger objects, and all sped upward and away. Sept. 21, 1950; Provincetown, Massachusetts. 9:52 a.m. Witness: M.I.T. research associate and Air National Guard Maj. M.H. Ligda. Radar tracking of one object during M.I.T tracking of USAF flight of F-84 or F-86 jet fighters. Object speed was 22 miles/minute (l,200 m.p.h.), made turn of 11-12 gs acceleration during 1 minute observation. Oct. 15, 1950; Oak Ridge, Tennessee. 3:20 p.m. Atomic Energy Commission Trooper Rymer, J. Moneymaker, Capt. Zarzecki. Two shiny silver objects shaped like bullet or bladder. They dove with a smoke trail and one vanished. The other hovered at 5-6, altitude, 50' away, left and returned several times somewhat further away. Oct. 15, 1950; Pope AFB, North Carolina. Witness: Daniel. Listed as "unidentified" in folder index, but no supporting data could be found. Oct 15, 1950; Pope AFB, North Carolina. Witness: Woodward. Same as previous observation. Oct. 23, 1950; Bonlee, North Carolina. 12:42 p.m. Witness: ex-USAF pilot Frank Risher. One aluminum object shaped like a dirigible or Convair C-99 cargo plane, with 3 portholes, arrived from southeast, hovered 3-5 seconds and flew away to the south- south-east at end of 40 second sighting. Nov. 5, 1950, Oak Ridge, Tennessee. 11:55 a.m. Witness: Fairchild Aircraft illustrator Don Patrick. One translucent object, light grey with dark core, shaped like a pear or bean. Flew for 5-10 minutes with rapid, darting movements. Dec. 2, 1950; Nanyika, Kenya. 10:50 a.m. Mr. and Mrs. L. Scott. One pearly, iridescent object with a flattened top, spun while hovering and made a sound like bees buzzing. Only data in files was from East African "Standard" newspaper. Dec. 6, 1950; Ft. Myers, Florida. 5 p.m. Witnesses: former aircraft purchasing agent Harry Lamp and four boys, using lO-power binoculars. One 75' object, 3-4' thick, bubble on top, silver with a red rim having two white and two orange jets along it. The center revolved when the object hovered; then it flew away very fast. Dec. 11, 1950; l0 mi. NW of Gulcana, Alaska. 10:13 p.m. Witnesses: crew of Northwest Air Lines flight 802. Two white flashes, followed by a dark cloud which rose and split in two. Jan. 8, 1951; South of Ft. Worth, Texas. 10:45 p.m. Witnesses: Mr. and Mrs. W.J. Boggus, plus unidentified drivers and passengers in other cars stopped to watch. Two groups of red and green lights in triangular formations were stationary and then moved. Jan. 12, 1951, Ft. Benning, Georgia. 10 p.m. Witness: U.S. Army 2nd Lt. A.C. Hale. One light with a fan-shaped wake remained motionless like a star about 20 minutes and then sped away. Jan 16, 1951; Artesia, New Mexico. Time unknown. Witnesses: Two members of a balloon project from the General Mills . Aeronautical Research Laboratory, the manger of the Artesia Airport, and three pilots. The balloon crew was observing their 110' balloon at an altitude of 112,000' when a dull white, round object was spotted. It appeared larger than the balloon, but made no movement. Later, the balloon crew and the others saw two objects from the airport; flying side-by-side, they circled the balloon and flew away to the northeast. The second observation lasted about 40 seconds. Note: there is confusion over the date of this case, with some USAF records showing it as 1952; however, 1951 appears to be correct. Feb. 1, 1951; Johnson Air Base, Japan. 5:10 p.m. Witnesses: pilot and radar operator of F-82 night fighter. One amber light made three or four 360* turns to the right, reversed toward the F-82 and then climbed out of sight. Feb. 21, 1951; Durban, South Africa. 4:55 a.m. Witnesses: three men in a truck, several other persons, none named. A dark red, torpedo-shaped object with darker center, flew straight and level. Feb. 26, 1951; Ladd AFB, Alaska. 7:10 a.m. Witness: USAF Sgt. J.B. Sells. One dull grey, metallic object, estimated to be 120' long and 10-12' thick, hovered, puffed smoke and sped away after 1-1.5 minutes. Note: may have been Feb. 25. Mar. 10, 1951; Chinnampo, Korea. 9:51 a.m. Witnesses: crew of USAF B-29 bomber, including scanners and tail gunner. A large red-yellow glow burst and became blue-white. No further information in files. Mar. 13, 1951; McClellan AFB, California. 3:20 p.m. Witnesses: USAF lst Lt. B.J. Hastie, Mrs. Rafferty. A cylinder with twin tails, 200' long and 90' wide, turned north and flew at incredible speed. Two minutes. Mar. 15, 1951; New Delhi, India. 10:20 a.m. Witnesses: 25 members of a flying club, including the chief aerial engineer and his two assistants. One metallic cigar-shaped object with white exhaust which turned black when it accelerated to an estimated 1,000 m.p.h. and made a large loop. Seven minutes. June 1, 1951; Niagara Falls, New York. 4:20 a.m. Witnesses: M/Sgt H.E. Sweeney, 2 enlisted men. One glowing yellow-orange, saucer-shaped object with arc-shaped wings, flew straight up. Seen for 30-40 seconds. July 24, 1951; Portsmouth, New Hampshire. 7:10 Witnesses: Hanscom AFB Operations Officer Capt. Cobb, Cpl. Fein. One 100-200' tubular object, 5 times long as it was wide, with fins at one end, and colored greyish with many black spots. Flew 800-1,000 m.p.h. at 1-2,000' altitude, leaving a faint swath. 20 seconds. Aug. 25, 1951; Albuquerque, New Mexico. 9:58 p.m. Witnesses: Sandia Base Security Guard Hugh Young and wife. A flying wing- shaped craft passed over their heads at an estimated 800-1,000' altitude with no sound. Size estimated at 1.5 times wingspan of B-36 bomber,or 350'. Dark, chordwise stripes on underside, and 6-8 pairs of soft, glowing lights on trailing edge of "wing". Speed estimated at 300-400 m.p.h., object seen for about 30 seconds. Aug. 31, ; Matador, Texas. 12:45 p.m. Witnesses: Mrs. Tom Tilson, one or two other women, all apparently of excellent reputations. One pear-shaped object with a length of a B-29 fuselage (100'), aluminum or silver with a port or some type of aperture on the side. It moved with smaller end forward, drifting slowly at about 150' altitude, then headed up in a circular fashion and out of sight after a few seconds. Sept. 6, 1951; Claremont, California. 7:20 p.m. (not really clear). Witnesses: S/Sgt W.T. Smith, M/Sgt L.L. Duel (?). Six orange lights in an irregular formation, flew straight and level into a coastal fog bank after 3-4 minutes. Sept. 14, 1951; Goose Bay, Labrador, Canada. 9:30 p.m. Witnesses: T/Sgt W.B. Maupin, Cpl. J.W. Green. Three objects tracked on radar. Two were on a collision course, then one evaded to the right upon the request, by radio, of one of the radar operators! No aircraft were known to be in the area. A third unidentified track then joined the first two. More than 15 minutes. Oct. 2, 1951; Columbus, Ohio. 6 p.m. Witness: Battelle Memorial Institute graduate physicist Howard Cross. One bright oval with a clipped tail flew straight and level, fading into the distance after 1 minute. Oct. 3, 1951; Kadena, Okinawa. 10:27 p.m. Witnesses: radar operators Sgt. M.W. Watson and Pvt. Gonzales and one other Sergeant. One large, sausage-shaped blip tracked at an estimated 4,800 m.p.h. Oct. 9, 1951; Terre Haute, Indiana. 1:42 p.m. Witness: CAA Chief Aircraft Communicator Roy Messmore at Hulman Municipal Airport. One round silver object flew directly overhead, reaching the horizon in 15 seconds. Note: a very similar incident happened 3 minutes later near Paris, Illinois (15 miles NW) and was also listed as "unidentified" for several years, but was eventually reclassified. Oct. 11, 1951; Minneapolis, Minnesota. 6:30 a.m. Witnesses: General Mills balloon researchers, including aeronautical engineer J.J. Kaliszewski, aerologist C.B. Moore, pilot Dick Reilly in the air, and Doug Smith on the ground. The flight crew saw the first object, a brightly glowing one with a dark underside and a halo around it. The object arrived high and fast, then slowed and made slow climbing circles for about two minutes, and finally sped away to the east. Soon they saw another one, confirmed by ground observers using a theodolite, which sped across the sky. Total time first object was seen was 5 minutes, second was a few seconds. Nov. 18, 1951; Washington, D.C. 3:20 a.m. Witnesses: Crew of Capital Airlines DC-4 Fliqht 610, Andrews AFB Senior air traffic controller Tom Selby. One object with several lights, followed the DC-4 for about 20 minutes and then turned back. Nov. 24, 1951; Mankato, Minnesota. 33:53 p.m. Witnesses: USAF or ANG pilots W.H. Fairbrother and D.E. Stewart in P-51 Mustangs. One milky white object shaped like Northrop flying wing (broad, slightly swept-back wing with no fuselage or tail). Estimated 8' span. Flew straight and level for 5 seconds. Dec. 7, 1951; Sunbury, Ohio. 4:30 p.m. Witness: amateur astronomer Carl Loar. One silvery sphere seen through telescope. Two specks sighted at sides, object seemed to explode and was replaced by a dark cloud and many specks. 30 minutes. Dec. 7, 1951; Oak Ridge, Tennessee. 8:15 a.m. Witness: Atomic Energy Commission guard J.H. Collins. One 20' square object, white-grey but not shiny flew above ridge to clouds and back again twice, taking 30-40 seconds each time. Feb. 11, 1952; Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. 3 a.m. Witnesses: Capt. G.P. Arns and Maj. R.J. Gedson flying a Beech AT-ll trainer. One yellow-orange comet-shaped object pulsed flame for 1-2 seconds of a 1 minute straight and level flight. Feb. 23, 1952; over North Korea. 11:15 p.m. Witness: Captain/B-29 navigator. One bluish cylinder, three times long as wide, with a tail and rapid pulsations, came in high and fast, made several turns and levelled out under B-29 which was evading mild antiaircraft fire. 45 second sighting. March 20, 1952; Centreville, Maryland. 10:42 p.m. Witnesses: WWl/WW2 veteran A.D. Hutchinson and son. One dull orange-yellow saucer-shaped light flew straight and level very fast for 30 seconds. March 23, 1952; Yakima, Washington. 6:56 and 7 p.m. Witnesses: pilot and radar operator of F-94 jet interceptor. On either occasion, a red fireball increased in brightness and then faded over 45 second span. Stationary both times. Note: --------Cont in Bluebook Part 2--------------------------------------- -- -* Don Allen *- InterNet: dona@bilver.UUCP // Amiga..for the best of us. USnail: 1818G Landing Dr, Sanford Fl 32771 \X/ Why use anything else? :-) UUCP: ..uunet!tarpit!bilver!vicstoy!dona 0110 0110 0110 Just say NO! Illuminati < MJ-12|Greys|TLC|CFR|FED|Bilderbergs > UN = "New World Order" Article: 6312 of alt.conspiracy Path: ns-mx!uunet!crdgw1!ge-dab!tarpit!bilver!dona From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy Subject: INFO: Project Bluebook -UNKNOWNS- Part 2 Keywords: Project Bluebook UFO's Message-ID: <1991Jul4.021624.15658@bilver.uucp> Date: 4 Jul 91 02:16:24 GMT Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL Lines: 529 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:1087 alt.conspiracy:6312 ---Bluebook Part2 ------------------------------------------------- Project Blue Book Status Report #7 (May 31, 1952) says target was also tracked by ground radar at 78 knots (90 m.p.h.) at 22,500' and 25,000' altitude. March 24, 1952; 60 miles west of Pt. Concepcion, California. 8:45 a.m. Witnesses: B-29 navigator and radar operator. One target tracked for 20-30 seconds at estimated 3,000 m.p.h. March 29, 1952; 20 miles north of Misawa AFB, Japan. 11:20 a.m. Witness: Brigham, pilot of AT-6 trainer. One small, very thin, shiny metallic disc flew alongside the AT-6, then made a pass at an F-84 jet fighter, flipped on edge, fluttered 20' from the F-84's fuselage and flipped in the slipstream...all in 10 seconds. April 4, 1952; Duncanville, Texas. 7:30 p.m. Witnesses: two radar operators of the 147th AC&W Squadron. One object was tracked for one minute by radar at an estimated 2,160 m.p.h. April 5, 1952; Phoenix, Arizona. l0:40 a.m. Witnesses: Mr. and Mrs. L.G. Ryan, R.L. Stokes, D. Schook. One large, dull grey circular object, followed by two more, flew straight and level at high speed. April 5, 1952; Miami, Florida. 9:15 p.m. Witnesses: L.E. VanDercar and 9 year old son. Four dark circular objects with mostly fuzzy edges, crossed face of Moon; each was half the apparent diameter of Moon. 2:59 p.m. Witness: H.L. Russell. April 6, 1952; Temple, Texas. 2:59 p. 50-75 grey-white discs changed position within formation continually, tilted in unison every 12-15 seconds during 3.8 minute sighting. April 12, 1952; North Bay, Ontario, Canada. 9:30 p.m. Witnesses: Royal Canadian Air Force Warrant Officer E.H. Rossell, Flight Sgt. R. McRae. One round amber object flew fast, stopped, reversed direction, climbed away at 30' angle during a 2 minute observation. April 14, 1952; LaCrosse, Wisconsin. 12:35 p.m. Witness: unidentified CAL airline pilot. Several light colored objects flew in V-formation. No further details in files. April 14, 1952; Memphis, Tennessee. 6:34 p.m. Witnesses: U.S. Navy pilots Lt. jg. Blacky, Lt. jg. O'Neil. One inverted bowl, 3' long and 1' high, with vertical slots, flew fast, straight and level, 100 yards from observers' aircraft for 45-60 seconds. April 15, 1952; Santa Cruz, California. 7:40 p.m. Witness: Mr. Hayes, brother of Master Sergeant. Two faint objects observed flying fast along the horizon for 6-8 seconds, using 20x spotting telescope. April 17, 1952; Longmeadow, Massachusetts. 8:30 p.m. Witnesses: S.B. Brooks, chemical engineer J.A. Eaton. One round, deep orange object flew fast and erratic, occasionally emitting a shaft of light to the rear during a 40 minute sighting. April 17, 1952; Yuma, Arizona. 3:05 p.m. Witnesses: group of Army weather observation students, including several graduate engineers. One flat-white, circular object flew with an irregular trajectory and a brief trail, for about 7 seconds. April 18, 1952; Yuma, Arizona. Time unknown. Witnesses: two Army weather observation students. One flat-white circular object flew for 5-10 seconds in a very erratic manner. April 18, 1952; Bethesda, Maryland. l1:30 a.m. Witnesses: R. Poerstal and three other men. Seven to nine circular, orange-yellow lights in a 40^ V-formation flew overhead silently for 4-8 seconds, from south to north. April 18, 1952; Corner Brook, Newfoundland, Canada. l0:l0 p.m. Witness: reporter Chic Shave. One round, yellow-gold object flew south and returned during 1.5 minute sighting. April 18, 1952; 50 miles northwest of Kyushu, Japan (129* 51' E., 34' 19' N.). Witness: one radar operator. Tracked unidentified target for 1 minute at 2,700 m.p.h. April 18, 1952; Corner Brook, Newfoundland, Canada. 4 a.m. Witness: janitor C. Hamilton. One yellow-gold object made a sharp turn and left a short, dark trail during l minute sighting. April 22, 1952; Naha AFB, Okinawa. 99 p.m. Witnesses: crew of B-29 bomber, on ground. One elliptical object, followed by two and then another two, each with a white light that blinked every 1-2 seconds as they performed erratic maneuvers for 10 minutes. April 24, 1952; Bellevue Hill, Vermont. 5 a.m. Witnesses: crew of USAF C-124 transport plane. Three circular, bluish objects in loose "fingertip" formation twice flew parallel to airplane during 3-4 minute period. April 24, 1952; Milton, Massachusetts. 2:30 p.m. Witnesses: three Cambridge Research Center electronics engineers, one named Buruish. Two flat, red squares flew wobbly in level flight, climbed, levelled out during 1.5 minute observation. April 24, 1952; Clovis, New Mexico. 8:10 p.m. Witness: USAF light Surgeon Maj. E.L. Ellis. Many orange-amber lights, sometimes separate, sometimes fused, behaved erratically. Speed varied from motionless to very fast during 5 minute sighting. April 27, 1952; Roseville, Michigan. 4:15 p.m. Witnesses: H.A. Freytag and three male relatives, including a minister. One silver oval rolled, descended and stopped. Two silver cigar- shaped objects appeared, one departing to the east and one to the west. A third silver cigar-shaped object flew by at high speed. Sightings lasted 45 minutes. April 27, 1952; Yuma, Arizona. 8:30 p.m. Witnesses: M/Sgt. and Mrs. G.S. Porter (he was off-duty control tower operator). Bright red or flame-colored discs, appearing as large as fighter planes. Seven sightings of one disc, one of two in formation during 2 hours. All seen below 11,000' overcast. April 29, 1952; Marshall, Texas. 3:30 p.m. Witness: private pilot R.R. Weidman. One round, white object which flew straight, with a side-to-side oscillation for 1.5 minutes. April 29, 1952; Goodland, Kansas. 100 p.m. Witness: B-29 bombardier Lt. R.H. Bauer. One white fan-shaped light pulsed 3-4 times per second for 2 seconds. May 1, 1952; Moses Lake, Washington. 5:32 a.m. Witnesses: Two Atomic Energy Commission employees, Eggan and Shipley. One silver object without wings flew straight and level for 1.5 minutes. May 1, 1952; George AFB, California. 10:50 a.m. Witnesses: three men on the arms range, plus one Lt. Colonel 4 miles away. Five flat-white discs about the diameter of a C-47's wingspan (95') flew fast, made a 90^ turn in a formation of three in front and two behind, and darted around, for 15-30 seconds. May 5, 1952; Tenafly, New Jersey. 10:45 p.m. Witness: Mrs. M.M. Judson. Six or seven translucent, cream-yellow objects. One moved in an ellipse, while the others moved in and out. May 7, 1952; Keesler AFB, Mississippi. 12:15 p.m. Witnesses: Capt. Morris, a Master Sergeant, a Staff Sergeant, and an Airman First Class. Ten times, an aluminum or silver cylindrical object was seen to dart in and out of the clouds during a 5-10 minute period. May 9, 1952; George AFB, California. 5:20 p.m. Witness: A/lc G.C. Grindeland. One dull white, arrowhead-shaped object flew straight and level for 10 seconds. May 10, 1952; Ellenton, South Carolina. 10:45 p.m. Witnesses: 4 duPont employees at the Savannah River nuclear plant. Up to four yellow, disc-shaped objects were seen on five occasions between 10:45 and shortly after 11:15. May 14, 1952; Mayaquez, Puerto Rico. 7 p.m. Witnesses: Attorney and ex-USAF pilot Mr. Stipes, Sr. Garcia-Mendez. Two shining orange spheres: one was stationary, while the other darted away and back for 30 minutes. May 20, 1952; Houston, Texas. l0:l0 p.m. Witnesses: USAF pilots Capt. J. Spurgin and Capt. BB. Stephan. One bright or white oval object moved from side-to-side while making a gradual turn for 90 seconds. May 25, 1952; Walnut Lake, Michigan. 9:15 p.m. Witnesses: seven persons, including John Hoffman, his family and friends. One large white circular object having dark sections on its rim, flew straight and level for 30 minutes, appearing red when behind a cloud. May 28, 1952; Saigon, French Indo China. 10:30 a.m. Witnesses: many in crowd watching a ceremony. One white-silver disc-shaped object flew straight and fast for 2 minutes. May 28, 1952; Albuquerque, New Mexico. 1:45-2:40 p.m. Witnesses: two city fire department employees. Two circular objects--one shiny silver and the other orange or light brown-- were seen three times performing fast maneuvers. May 29, 1952; San Antonio, Texas. 7 p.m. Witness: USAF pilot Maj. D.W. Feuerstein, on ground. One bright tubular object tilted from horizontal to vertical for 8 minutes, then slowly returned to horizontal, again tilted vertical, accelerated, appeared to lengthen and turned red. The entire sighting lasted 14 minutes. June 1, 1952; Rapid City, South Dakota. 6 p.m. Witnesses: A/lc Beatty and two civilians. At least five long silver objects flew in a neat box formation with a leader for 15-20 seconds. June 1, 1952; Walla , Washington. 1 p.m. Witness: ex-military pilot Reserve Maj. W.C. Vollendorf. One oval object with a "definite airfoil" performed a fast climb for 7 seconds. June l, 1952; Soap Lake, Washington. 3+ p.m. Witness: Ray Lottman. Three glimmering objects flew straight and level for 10 minutes. June 2, 1952; Bayview, Washington. 5:02 p.m. Witness: Larry McWade. One purple object seen for unknown length of time. No further information in files. June 2, 1952; Fulda, West Germany. Time unknown. Witness: lst Lt. John Hendry, photo-navigator on an RB-26C reconnaissance bomber. One porcelain-white object flew very fast for an unknown length of time. June 5, 1952; Lubbock, Texas. 11 p.m. Witnesses: Dan Benson, Mr. Bacon. A total of eight yellow circular objects, like large stars, were seen during 45 minutes. The first two were in a trail formation, the others were seen singly. June 5, 1952; Albuquerque, New Mexico. 6:45 p.m. Witness: S/Sgt T.H. Shorey. One shiny round object flew 5-6 times as fast as an F-86 jet fighter for 6 seconds. June 5, 1952; Offutt AFB, Omaha, Nebraska. 11 p.m. Witnesses: 2nd Lt. W.R. Soper, a Strategic Air Command top secret control officer and former OSI agent; and two other persons. One bright red object remained stationary for 4.5 minutes before speeding away with a short tail. June 6, 1952; Kimpo AFB, Korea. Case missing from official files. June 7, 1952; Albuquerque, New Mexico. 11:18 a.m. Witnesses: crew of B-25 bomber #8840 at 11,500'. One rectangular aluminum object, about 6'x4', flew 250-300' below the B-25. June 8, 1952; Albuquerque, New Mexico. 10:50 a.m. Witnesses: Mr. and Mrs. J.D. Markland. Four shiny objects flew straight and level in a diamond formation. June 9, 1952; Minneapolis, Minnesota. Case missing from official files. June 12, 1952; Ft. Smith, Arkansas. 7:30 p.m. Witnesses: U.S. Army Major and Lt. Colonel, using binoculars. One orange ball with a tail flew with a low angular velocity. June 12, 1952; Marakesch, Morocco. 11:26 a.m. Witness: T/Sgt. H.D. Adams, operating an SCR-584 radar set. One unidentified blip tracked at 650 kts. (750 m.p.h.) at greater than 60,000' altitude. June 13, 1952; Middletown, Pennsylvania. 8:45 p.m. Witness: R.S. Thomas, Olmstead AFB employee and former control tower operator. One round, orange object travelled south, stopped for 1 second, turned east, stopped 1 second, and went down. June 15, 1952; Louisville, Kentucky. 11:50 p.m. Witness: Edward Duke, ex-U.S. Navy radar technician. One large, cigar- shaped object with a blunt front, lit sides and a red stern, maneuvered in a leisurely fashion for 15 minutes. June 16, 1952; Walker AFB, New Mexico. 8:30 p.m. Witness: USAF maintenance specialist S/Sgt. Sparks. Five or six greyish discs, in a half-moon formation, flew at 500-600 m.p.h. for l minute. June 17, 1952; McChord AFB, Washington. Between 7:30 and 10:20 p.m. Witnesses: many and varied. From one to five large silver-yellow objects flew erratically, stopped and started for about 15 minutes. June 17, 1952; Cape Cod, Massachusetts. 1:28 a.m. Witness: pilot of USAF F-94 jet interceptor. A light like a bright star crossed the nose of the airplane while being observed for 15 seconds. No further information in the files. June 18, 1952; Columbus, Wisconsin. 9 a.m. Witness: R.A. Finger. One crescent-shaped object hovered for several seconds and then sped away. June 18, 1952; Walnut Lake, Michigan. 10 p.m. Witnesses: Marron Hoffman and four relatives, using 4x binoculars. One orange light was observed zigzagging and then hovering for an unspecified length of time. June 19, 1952; Goose Bay, Labrador, Canada. 2:37 a.m. Witness: 2nd Lt. A'Gostino and unidentified radar operator. One red light turned white while wobbling. Radar tracked a stationary target during the 1 minute sighting. June 19, 1952; Yuma, Arizona. 2 p.m. Witness: USAF pilot John Lane. One round, white object flew straight and level for 10 seconds. June 20, 1952; Central Korea. 3:03 p.m. Witnesses: four Marine Corps Captains and pilots of F4U-4B Corsair fighter planes. One 10-20' white or silver oval object made a left-hand orbit at terrific speed for 60 seconds. June 21, 1952; Kelly AFB, Texas. 12:30 p.m. Witness: T/Sgt. Howard Davis, flight engineer of B-29 bomber at 8,000' altitude. One flat object with a sharply pointed front and rounded rear; white with a dark blue center and red rim, trailed sparks as it dove past the B-29 at a distance of 500', in l second. June 22, 1952; Pyungthek, Korea. 10:45 p.m. Witnesses: Two Marine Corps Sergeants. One 4 ft. diameter object dove at a runway shooting red flames, hovered briefly over a hill, turned 180 , flashed twice and was gone. June 23, 1952; Spokane, Washington. 4:05 p.m. Witness: Airport weather observer Rex Thompson. One round disc with a metallic shine flashed, and fluttered like a flipped coin for 5-7 minutes. June 23, 1952; McChord AFB, Washington. 9 p.m. Witness: 2nd Lt. K. Thompson. One very large light flew straight and level for 10 minutes. No further information. June 23, 1952; Kirksville, Missouri. Case missing from official files. June 23, 1952; Oak Ridge, Tennessee. 3:30 a.m. Witness: secretary Martha Milligan. One bullet-shaped object with burnt-orange exhaust flew straight and level for 30-60 seconds. June 23, 1952; Owensboro, Kentucky. 10:00 a.m. Witness: National Guard Lt. Col. O. L. Depp. Two objects looking like "giant soap bubbles", reflecting yellow and lavender colors, flew in trail for 5 seconds. June 23, 1952; Location unknown, but information came via Japan Hq. "CV 4359". 6:08 a.m. Witness: USAF pilot of the l8th Fighter-Bomber Group. One black coin-shaped object, 15-20' in diameter, made an irregular descent. June 25, 1952; Chicago, Illinois. 8:30 p.m. Witnesses: Mrs. Norbury, Mr. Matheis. One bright yellow-white, egg-shaped object which sometimes had a red tail, made seven circles in 1 1/2 hours. June 25, 1982; Japan-Korea area. Case missing from official files. June 26, 1952; Terre Haute, Indiana. 2:45 a.m. Witness: USAF 2nd Lt. C. W. Povelites. Undescribed object flew at 600 m.p.h. and then stopped. No further information in files. June 26, 1952; Pottstown, Pennsylvania. 11:50 p.m. Witness: assistant manager of airport. Three sightings of flashing lights: two lights separated by 2 miles, with the leader flashing steadily and the other irregularly; two similarly flashing lights, but with l mile separation; finally a single light. Speed estimated at 150-250 m.p.h.. Total of 1/2 hour. June 27, 1952; Topeka, Kansas. 6:50 p.m. Witnesses: USAF pilot 2nd Lt. K. P. Kelly and wife. One pulsating red object which changed shape from a circular to a vertical oval as it pulsed. Was stationary for about 5 minutes, then went out. June 28, 1952; Lake Kishkanoug, Wisconsin. 6 p.m. Witness: G. Metcalfe. One silver-white sphere became an ellipse as it turned and climbed away very fast. 10 seconds. June 28, 1952; Nagoya, Japan. 4:10 p.m. Witness: Capt. T. W. Barger, USAF electronics countermeasures officer. One dark blue elliptical-shaped object with a pulsing border flew straight and level at 700-800 m.p.h.. June 29, 1952; O'Hare Airport, Chicago, Illinois. 5:45 p.m. witnesses: three USAF air policemen. One bright silver, flat oval object surrounded by a blue haze, hovered, then moved very fast to the right and to the left, and up and down for 45 minutes. July 3, 1952; Selfridge AFB, Michigan. 4:15 a.m. Witnesses not identified. Two big lights, estimated at 20' diameter, flew straight and level at tremendous speed. July 3, 1952; Chicago, Illinois. 11:50 p.m. Witness: Mrs. J. D. Arbuckle. Two bright pastel green discs flew straight and level very fast for 6 seconds. July 5, 1952; Norman, Oklahoma. 7:58 p.m. Witness: Oklahoma State Patrolman Hamilton in State Patrol airplane. Three dark discs hovered and then flew away, silhouetted against a dark cloud. 15 seconds. July 6-12, 1952; Elizabeth, New Jersey. 11:00 p.m. Witness: Charles Muhr. Four pictures taken of some indistinct light which was admittedly not seen visually, but which appeared on the negatives. July 9, 1952; Colorado Springs, Colorado. 12:45 p.m. Witness: USAF pilot Maj. C. K. Griffin. One object shaped like an airfoil less its trailing edge, luminous white, moved slowly and erratically for 12 minutes. July 9, 1952; Kutztown, Pennsylvania. 6:30 p.m. Witness: farmer John Mittl. One aluminum, oval-shaped object changed direction and attitude, finally tipping on end and departing after 20 seconds. Case file includes three vague photographs. July 9, 1952; Rapid City AFB, South Dakota. 3:35 p.m. Witnesses: S/Sgt. D.P. Foster and three other persons. Three times, a single white, disc-shaped object sped by, straight and level, in 5 seconds. July 12, 1952; Annapolis, Maryland. 3:30 p.m. Witness: insurance company president William Washburn. Four large, elliptical-shaped objects were seen to fly very fast, stop, turn 90* and fly away in 7-8 seconds. . July 12, 1952; Kirksville, Missouri. 9 p.m. Witnesses: many radar controllers who were military officers. Several big blips tracked on radar at 1,500 kts. (1,700 m.p.h.). There was no visual sighting. July 14, 1952; Norfolk, Virginia. 8:12 p.m. Witnesses: Pan American Airways First Officer William Nash, Second Officer William Fortenberry. Eight large, round, glowing red objects maneuvered below their airliner, in formation. July 15, 1952; West Palm Beach, Florida. 10:10 p.m. Witnesses: J. Antoneff and two other persons. One discus-shaped object, greyish, except when hovering, when it appeared muddy. Hovered over Palm Beach International Airport, then followed an SA-l6 twin-engined amphibian and flew away after 40-60 seconds. July 16, 1952; Beverly, Massachusetts. 9:35 a.m. Witness: U.S. Coast Guard photographer Shell Alpert. Four roughly elliptical blobs of light in formation photographed through window of photo lab. July 17, 1952; White Plains, New York. 3:10 p.m. Witness: Mrs. Florence Daley. Two round objects, bluish-white with brighter rims, flew in formation, making a sound like bombers, only softer. Note: Later, the witness stated she heard many feminine voices coming from the objects. July 17, 1952; Lockbourne, Ohio. 11 a.m. Witness: Air National Guard employees. One light like a big star was seen for 3 hours, but disappeared when an aircraft approached. Also seen the night of July 20, 22 and 23. July 18, 1952; Lockbourne, Ohio. 9:10 p.m. Witnesses: T/Sgt. Mahone, A/3c Jennings. One amber-colored, elliptical-shaped object with a small flame at the rear, periodically increased in brightness. It moved very fast for l 1/2 minutes, giving off a resonant beat sound. July 18, 1952; Miami, Florida. 11 a.m. Witnesses: E. R. Raymer and daughter. One opaque, silvery bubble flew very fast at a right-angle to the wind direction for 10 seconds. July 18, 1952; Patrick AFB, Florida. 9:45 p.m. Witnesses: three USAF officers and four enlisted men. Over an hour period, a series of hovering and maneuvering red-orange lights were observed moving in a variety of directions. July 19, 1952; Williston, North Dakota. 2:55 a.m. Witness: one experienced civilian pilot. One elliptical-shaped object with a light fringe, travelled down fast, made a 360* and then a 180* turn in 5 minutes. July 19, 1952; Elkins Park, Pennsylvania. 11:35 p.m. Witnesses: USAF pilot Capt. C.J. powley and wife. Two star-like lights maneuvered, hovered and sped for 5-7 minutes. July 20, 1952; Lavalette, New Jersey. 12:20 a.m. Witness: Seton Hall Univ. chemistry professor Dr. A.B. Spooner. Two large orange-yellow lights with some dull red coloring flew in trail, turned and circled for 5-6 minutes. July 21, 1952; Weisbaden, West Germany. 6:30 p.m. Witnesses: USAF pilot Capt. E.E. Dougher, WAF Lt. J.J. Stong, situated miles apart. Four bright yellowish lights were seen by Dougher to separate, with two climbing and two flying away level in the opposite direction. Stong watched two reddish lights fly in opposite directions. Sightings lasted about 10-15 minutes. July 21, 1952; San Marcos AFB, Texas. 10:40 p.m. Witnesses: one Lieutenant, two Staff Sergeants, three airmen. One blue circle with a blue trail was seen to hover and then accelerate to near-sonic speed (700+ m.p.h.) after 1 minute. July 21, 1952; Converse, Texas. 4:30 p.m. Witness: wife of USAF Capt. J. B. Neal. One elongated, fuselage-shaped object flew straight and level, made a right-angle turn and went out of sight at more than 300 m.p.h., all in 3-5 seconds. July 21, 1952; Rockville, Indiana. 8:10 p.m. Witnesses: one military officer, two enlisted men. One aluminum, delta-shaped object with a vertical fin, flew straight and level, and then hovered during a 3 minute sighting. July 22, 1952; Holyoke, Massachusetts. After midnight. Witness: Mrs. A. Burgess. One round, yellow, flashing light went downward. No further information in files. July 22, 1952; Los Alamos, New Mexico. 10:50 a.m. Witnesses: control tower operator Don Weins, and two pilots for Carco. Eight large, round, bright aluminum objects flew straight and level, then darted around erratically during 25 minutes. July 22, 1952; Uvalde, Texas. 2:46 p.m. Witness: Don Epperly, Trans Texas Airlines station manager and weather observer. One large, round, silver object flew at more than 1,000 m.p.h. for 45 seconds, while gyrating. July 22, 1952; between Boston and Provincetown, Massachusetts. 10:47 p.m. Witnesses: pilot and radar operator of USAF F-94 jet interceptor. One round blue light passed F-94, spinning. July 22, 1952; Trenton, New Jersey. 10:50 p.m. t.o 12:45 a.m., July 23. Witnesses: crews of several USAF F-94 jet interceptors from Dover AFB, Del. Thirteen visual sightings and one radar tracking of blue-white lights during two hours. July 23, 1952; Pottstown, Pennsylvania. 8:40 a.m. Witnesses: the two-man crews of three USAF F-94 jet interceptors. One large -------Continued in Bluebook Part 3 ----------------------------------- -- -* Don Allen *- InterNet: dona@bilver.UUCP // Amiga..for the best of us. USnail: 1818G Landing Dr, Sanford Fl 32771 \X/ Why use anything else? :-) UUCP: ..uunet!tarpit!bilver!vicstoy!dona 0110 0110 0110 Just say NO! Illuminati < MJ-12|Greys|TLC|CFR|FED|Bilderbergs > UN = "New World Order" Article: 6313 of alt.conspiracy Path: ns-mx!uunet!crdgw1!ge-dab!tarpit!bilver!dona From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy Subject: INFO: Project Bluebook -UNKNOWNS- Part 3 Keywords: Project Bluebook UFO's Message-ID: <1991Jul4.021747.15716@bilver.uucp> Date: 4 Jul 91 02:17:47 GMT Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL Lines: 526 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:1088 alt.conspiracy:6313 -------Bluebook Part 3 ----------------------------------------------- silver object, shaped like a long pear with two or three squares beneath it, flew at 150-180 kts. (170-210 m.p.h.), while a smaller object, delta-shaped or swept back, flew around it at 1,000-1,500 kts. (1,150-1,700 m.p.h.). Seen by crews for 1-4 minutes. July 23, 1952; Altoona, Pennsylvania. 12:50 p.m. Witnesses: two-man crews of two USAF F-94 jet interceptors at 35-46,000' altitude. Three cylindrical objects in a vertical stack formation flew at an altitude of 50-80,000'. Seen for 20 minutes. July 23, 1952; South Bend, Indiana. 11:35 p.m. Witness: USAF pilot Capt. H. W. Kloth. Two bright blue-white objects flew together, then the rear one veered off after about 9 minutes. July 24, 1952; Carson Sink, Nevada. 3:40 p.m. Witnesses: two USAF Lt. Colonels McGinn and Barton in a B-25 bomber. Three silver, delta-shaped objects, each with a ridge along the top, crossed in front of and above the B-25 at high speed, in 3-4 seconds. July 26, 1952; Washington, D.C. 8 p.m. until after midnight. Witnesses: radar operators at several airports, airline pilots. Many unidentified blips tracked by radar all over Washington area, at varying speeds. Pilots spotted unidentified lights. July 26, 1952; Kansas City, Missouri. 12:15 a.m. Witnesses: USAF Capt. H. A. Stone, men in control towers at Fairfax Field and Municipal Airport. One greenish light with red-orange flashes was seen for 1 hour as it descended in the northwest from 40* elevation to 10* elevation. July 26, 1952; Andrews AFB, Maryland. This was a continuation of the extensive sightings and radar tracking reports reported throughout the Washington, D.C. area, all night long. July 26, 1952; Kirtland AFB, New Mexico. 12:05 a.m. Witness: Airman lst Class J.M. Donaldson. Eight to ten orange balls in a triangular or V-formation flew very fast for 3-4 seconds. July 26, 1952; Williams, California. Case missing from official files. July 27, 1952; Selfridge AFB, Michigan. 10:05 a.m. Witnesses: three B-29 bomber crewmen on ground. Many round, white objects flew straight and level, very fast. Two at 10:05, one at 10:10, one at 10:15, one at 10:20. Each was seen for about 30 seconds. July 27, 1952; Wichita Falls, Texas. 8:30 p.m. Witnesses: Mr. and Mrs. Adrian Ellis. Two disc-shaped objects, illuminated by a phosphorus light, flew at an estimated l,000 m.p.h. for 15 seconds. July 28, 1952; Heidelberg, West Germany. 10:20 p.m. Witnesses: Sgt. B.C. Grassmoen, WAC Pfc. A.P. Turner. One saucer-shaped object having an appearance of light metal and giving off shafts of white light, flew slow, made a 90^ turn and climbed away fast after 4-5 minutes. July 28, 1952; McGuire AFB, New Jersey. 6 a.m. Witness: Ground Control Approach radar operator M/Sgt. W.F. Dees, and persons in the base control tower. Radar tracked a large cluster of very distinct blips. Visual observation was of oblong objects having neither wings nor tail, which made a very fast turn and at one time were in echelon formation. Entire episode lasted 55 minutes. July 28, 1952; McChord AFB, Washington. 2:15 a.m. Witnesses: T/Sgt. Walstead, S/Sgt. Calkins of the 635th AC&W Squadron. One dull, glowing, blue-green ball,.the size of a dime at arms' length, flew very fast, straight and level. July 29, 1952; Osceola, Wisconsin. 1:30 a.m. Witnesses: radar operators on ground, pilot of F-5l Mustang in flight. Several clusters of up to 10 small radar targets and one large target. Small targets moved from southwest to east at 50-60 kts. (60-70 m.p.h.), following each other. The large one moved at 600 kts. (700 m.p.h.). One hour total time. Pilot confirmed one target. July 29, 1952; Langley AFB, Virginia. 2:30 p.m. Witness: USAF Capt D.G. Moore, of military air traffic control system. One undescribed object flew at an estimated 2,600 m.p.h., below 5,000' altitude, toward the air base for about 2 minutes. July 29, 1952; Langley AFB, Virginia. 2:50 p.m. Witnesses: Mr. Moore, Gilfillan electronics representative W. Yhope. One radar target tracked moving away, stopped for 2 minutes, again moved very, very fast. Four minutes. July 29, 1952; Merced, California. 3:44 or 4:35 p.m. Witnesses: Herbert Mitchell and one employee. One dark, discus-shaped object, trailed by a silvery light 2 lengths behind, tipped on its side, dove, hesitated and then circled very fast during the 2 minute sighting. July 29, 1952; Wichita, Kansas. 12:35 p.m. Witnesses: USAF shop employees Douglas and Hess at Municipal Airport. One bright white circular object with a flat bottom flew very fast, and then hovered 10-15 seconds over the Cessna Aircraft Co. plant, during the 5 minute sighting. July 29, 1952; Ennis, Montana. 12:30 p.m. Witnesses: USAF persons, alerted that UFOs were coming from the direction of Seattle, Wash. Two to five flat disc-shaped objects: one hovered 3-4 minutes, while the others circled it. Sighting length of 30 minutes not explained further. July 30, 1952; Albuquerque, New Mexico. 11:02 p.m. Witness: USAF lst Lt. George Funk. One orange light remained stationary for 10 minutes. No further details in files. July 30, 1952; San Antonio, Texas. 10 a.m. Witnesses: E.E. Nye and one other person. One round, white object flew slow and then sped away after 20-30 minutes. Aug. 1, 1952; Lancaster, California. 1:14 a.m. Witnesses: sheriff's deputies and other persons, one named Mallette. Two brilliant red lights hovered and maneuvered for 5 minutes. Aug. 2, 1952; Lake Charles, Louisiana. 3 a.m. Witnesses: USAF lst Lt. W.A. Theil, one enlisted man. One red ball with a blue flame tail flew straight and level for 3-4 seconds. Aug. 4, 1952; Phoenix, Arizona. 2:20 a.m. Witness: USAF A/3c W.F. Vain. One yellow ball which lengthened and narrowed to plate shape, flew straight and level for 5 minutes. Aug. 4, 1952; Mt. Vernon, New York. 11:37 a.m. Witnesses: one woman, two children. One object, shaped like a lifesaver or donut, emitted black smoke from its top and made a 15' arc in 1.5 minutes. Observed for 2 hours. Aug 5. 1952; Haneda AFB, Japan. 11:30 p.m. Witnesses: USAF F-94 jet interceptor pilots lst Lt. W.R. Holder and lst Lt. A.M. Jones, and Haneda control tower operators. Airborne radar tracked a target for 90 seconds. Control tower operators watched 50-60 minutes while a dark shape with a light flew as fast as 330 kts. (380 m.p.h.), hovered, flew curves and performed a variety of maneuvers. Aug. 6, 1952; Tokyo, Japan. This is a continuation of the Haneda AFB sightings. Aug. 6, 1952; Port Austin, Michigan. Case missing from official files. Aug. 7. 1952; San Antonio, Texas. 9:08 a.m. Witness: Mrs. Susan Pfuhl. Four glowing white discs: one made a 180* turn, one flew straight and level, one veered off, and one circled during the 70 minute sighting. Aug. 9, 1952; Lake Charles, Louisiana. 10:50 a.m. Witness: USAF A/3c J.P. Raley. One disc-shaped object flew very fast and then hovered for 2 seconds during a 5-6 minute sighting. Aug. 13, 1952; Tokyo, Japan. 9:45 p.m. Witness: USAF Marine Corps pilot Maj. D. McGough. One orange light flew a left orbit at 8,000' and 230 m.p.h., spiralled down to no more than 1,500', remained stationary for 2-3 minutes and went out. An attempted interception was unsuccessful. Aug. 18, 1952; Fairfield, California. 12:50 a.m. Witnesses: three policemen. One object changed color like a diamond, and changed directions during the 30 minute sighting. Aug. 19, 1952; Red Bluff, California. 2:38 p.m. Witness: Ground Observer Corps observer Albert Lathrop. Two objects, shaped like fat bullets, flew straight and level, very fast for 25 seconds. Aug. 20, 1952; Neffesville, Pennsylvania. 3:10 a.m. Witnesses: Bill Ford and two others. An undescribed object flew at 500' altitude for several minutes. No further data in files. Aug. 21, 1952; Dallas, Texas. 11:54 p.m. Witness: Jack Rossen, ex-artillery observer. Three blue-white lights hovered then descended; 1.5 minutes later, one of them descended more. Aug. 23, 1952; Akron, Ohio. 4:10 a.m. Witnesses: USAF 2nd Lt. H.K. Funseth, a ground radar observer, and two U.S. Navy men. One pulsing amber light was seen to fly straight and level for 7 minutes. Aug. 24, 1952; Hermanas, Mexico. 10:15 a.m. Witness: Georgia Air National Guard F-84G jet fighter pilot Col. G.W. Johnson. Two 6' silver balls in abreast formation, one turned grey rapidly, the other slowly. One changed to long grey shape during a turn. Sighting lasted about 10 minutes. Aug. 24, 1952; Tucson, Arizona. 5:40 p.m. Witnesses: Mr. and Mrs. George White. One large round, metallic, white light with a vague lower surface, flew slowly, then fast With a dancing, wavering motion, for about 1 minute. Aug. 24, 1952; Levelland, Texas. 9:30 p.m., 10:30 p.m. Witnesses: Mr. and Mrs. Elmer Sharp. One object, shaped like a spinning top, changing color from red to yellow to blue, and with a fiery tail, hovered for 20 minutes, whistling, then flew away. It, or another like it, returned an hour later. Aug. 25, 1952; Pittsburg, Kansas. 5:35 a.m. Witness: radio station musician William Squyres. One dull aluminum object, shaped like two meat platters, face to face, estimated at 75' long, 45' wide, and 15' thick. Through a window in the front section shone a blue light; the head and shoulders of a man could be seen. The mid section had numerous windows through which could be seen some kind of regular movement. A series of small propellers were spaced close together along the outer edge of the object, revolving at high speed. The object was hovering about 10' above the ground, 100 yards off the road, with a slight rocking motion. It then ascended vertically with a sound like a large covey of quail starting to fly at the same time. Vegetation showed signs of having been disturbed under the object. Aug. 25, 1952; Holloman AFB, New Mexico. 3:40 p.m. Witnesses: civilian supervisor Fred Lee, foreman L.A. Aquilar. One round silver object flew south, turned and flew north, made a 360 turn and flew away vertically after 3-5 minutes. Aug. 26, 1952; Lathrop Wells, Nevada. 12:10 a.m. Witness: USAF Capt. D.A. Woods. One large, round, very bright object with a V-shaped contrail having a dark cone in the center, flew very fast, hovered, made an instantaneous 90 turn, followed by a gentle climb and finally sudden acceleration. Aug. 28, 1952; Chickasaw and Brookley AFB, Alabama. 9:30 p.m. Witnesses: USAF control tower operators, officer from USAF Office of Special Investigations, and others. Six objects, varying from fiery red to sparkling diamond appearance, hovered, flew erratically up and down for 1 hour and l5minutes. Aug. 29, 1952; Colorado Springs, Colorado. 8:35 p.m. Witness: pilot C.A. Magruder. Three objects, 50' in diameter, 10' high, aluminum with red-yellow exhaust, flew in trail at estimated 1,500 m.p.h. for 4-5 seconds. Aug. 29, 1952; west of Thule, Greenland (77' N., 75* 15' W.) 10:50 a.m. Witnesses: two U.S. Navy pilots flying a P4Y-2 patrol plane. Three white disc-shaped or spherical objects hovered, then flew very fast in a triangular formation, in 2-3 minutes. Sept. l, 1952; Marietta, Georgia. 10:50 p.m. Witness: ex-AAF B-25 gunner. Two large white disc-shaped objects with green vapor trails flew in trail formation, merged, flew away very fast. Sept. 1, 1952; Marietta, Georgia. 10:30 p.m. Witness: one unidentified person using binoculars. Two large objects shaped like spinning tops and displaying red, blue and green colors, flew side by side, leaving a sparkling trail for 30 minutes. Sept. 1, 1952; Atlanta, Georgia. 9:43 p.m. Witnesses: Mrs. William Davis and nine other persons. One light, similar to the evening star, moved up and down for a long period of time. Sept. l, 1952; Marietta, Georgia. 10:30 p.m. Witnesses: Mr. Bowman (ex-artillery officer) and 24 others. A red, white, and blue-green object which spun and shot off sparks for 15 minutes. Sept. 1, 1952; Yaak, Montana. 4:45 a.m. Witnesses: Visual sighting by two USAF enlisted men, radar tracking seen by three men using AN/FPS-3 radar set. Two small, varicolored lights became black silhouettes at dawn; flew erratically. One hour. Sept. 2, 1952; Chicago, Illinois. 3 a.m. Witness: radar tracker Turason (ground controlled approach) at Midway Airport. 40 targets flew in miscellaneous directions, up to 175 m.p.h. Two seemed to fly in formation with DC-6 airliner. Total of 8 hours. Sept. 3, 1952; Tucson, Arizona. 99 a.m. Witnesses: civilian pilots McCraven and Thomas. One shiny, dark ellipse made three broad, curving sweeps in 1.5 minutes. Sept. 6, 1952; Lake Charles AFB, Louisiana. l:3O'a.m. Witnesses: T/Sgt. J.E. Wilson and two enlisted men. One bright star-like light moved about the sky for 2 hours. Sept. 6, 1952; Tucson, Arizona. 4:55 p.m. Witnesses: ex- Congresswoman Mrs. Isabella King and Bill McClain. One orange teardrop-shaped object whirled on its vertical axis, descended very fast, stopped, retraced its path upwards, while whirling in the opposite direction. 1.5 minutes. Sept. 7, 1952; San Antonio, Texas. 10:30 p.m. Witnesses: chemist J.W. Gibson and others. One orange object or light (the color of 2,000' F.) exploded into view. Seen for from 3-20 seconds by various observers. Sept. 9, 1952; Rabat, French Morocco. 9 p.m. Witness: E.J. colisimo, a civilian illustrator with USAF Intelligence. One disc with lights along part of its circumference, flew twice as fast as a T-33 jet trainer, in a slightly curved path for 5 seconds. Sept. 12, 1952; Allen, Maryland. 9:30 p.m. Witnesses: Mr. and Mrs. David Kolb, of the Ground Observer Corps, using binoculars. One white light with a red trim and streamers flew northeast for 35 minutes. Sept. 13, 1952; Allentown, Pennsylvania. 7:40 p.m. Witness: private pilot W.A. Hobler, flying a Beech Bonanza. One object, shaped like a fat football, flaming orange-red color, descended and then pulled up in front of the witness' airplane. Seen for 2 seconds. Sept. 14, 1952; Santa Barbara, California. 8:40 p.m. Witness: USAF C-54 transport pilot Tarbutton. One blue-white light travelled straight and level, then went up. Seen for 30 seconds. Sept. 14, 1952; North Atlantic, between Ireland and Iceland. Witnesses: military persons from several countries aboard ships in the NATO "Operation Mainbrace" exercise. Among the sightings: one blue-green triangle was observed flying 1,500 m.p.h; three objects in a triangular formation gave off white light exhaust at 1,500 m.p.h. Sept. 14, 1952; White Lake, South Dakota. 7 p.m. Witness: Ground Observer Corps observer L.W. Barnes, using binoculars. One red, cigar-shaped object, with three puffs behind it, flew west, then south, and then was gone. Seen 30-40 minutes. Sept. 14, 1952; Ciudad Jaurez, Mexico. 11:30 p.m. to 1:20 a.m., Sept. 15. Witnesses: consulting engineer R. J. Portis and three others. Six groups of 12-15 luminous spheres or discs, which flew in formations varying from arcs to inverted-Y's, very fast. Sept. 14, 1952; Olmstead AFB, Pennsylvania. Time not known. Witness: pilot of Flying Tiger Airlines airplane N67977. One blue light flew very fast on a collision course with the airliner. Note: the summary card attached to the file showed completely different information. Sept. 16, 1952; Portland, Maine. 6:22 p.m. Witnesses: crew of U.S. Navy P2V Neptune patrol plane, visually and via radar. A group of five lights was seen at the same time a long, thin blip was being tracked on radar. Note: consideration was given to this being USAF KC-97 airplanes involved in a refueling operation. The sighting involved 20 minutes. Sept. 16, 1952; Warner-Robbins AFB, Georgia. 7:30 p.m. Witnesses: three USAF officers, two civilians. Two white lights flew abreast, at 100 m.p.h., for 15 minutes. Sept. 17, 1952; Tucson, Arizona. 11:40 a.m. Witnesses: Mr. and Mrs. Ted Hollingsworth. Two groups of three large, flat, shiny objects flew in tight formations: the first group slow, the second faster. Seen for 2 minutes. Sept. 23, 1952; Gander Lake, Newfoundland, Canada. No time shown. Witnesses: Pepperell AFB operations officer and seven other campers. One bright white light, which reflected on the lake, flew straight and level at 100 m.p.h. for 10 minutes. Sept. 24, 1952; Charleston, West Virginia. 3:30 p.m. Witnesses: crew of USAF B-29 bomber. A lot of bright, metallic particles or flashes, up to 3' in length, streamed past the B-29 for 15 minutes. Sept. 26, 1952; 400 miles NNW of Azores Islands. 11:16 p.m. Witnesses: pilot, copilot, engineer and aircraft commander of USAF C-124 transport plane. Two distinct green lights were seen to the right and slightly above the C-124, and at one time seemed to turn toward it. The lights alternated leading each other during more than 1 hour of observation. Sept. 27, 1952; Inyokern, California. 10 p.m. Witnesses: two couples, using a 5x telescope. One large, round object, which went through the color spectrum every 2 seconds, was seen to fly straight and level for 15 minutes. Sept. 29, 1952; Rochester, England. 3:55 p.m. Witnesses unknown, but report came via the Rochester Police Dept. Two flat objects hovered for 3 minutes, and then sped away. Sept. 29, 1952; Southern Pines, North Carolina. 8:15 p.m. Witnesses: U.S. Army Res. lst Lt. C.H. Stevens and two others. One green ellipse with a long tail orbited for 15 minutes. Sept. 29, 1952; Aurora, Colorado. 3:15 p.m. Witness: USAF T/Sgt. B.R. Hughes. Five or six circular objects, bright white but not shiny, circled in trail formation for 5-6 minutes. Oct. 1, 1952; Shaw AFB, South Carolina. 6:57 p.m. Witness: USAF lst Lt. T.J. Pointek, pilot of RF-8O reconnaissance jet. One bright white light flew straight, then vertical, then hovered, and then made an abrupt turn during a 23 minute attempted intercept. Oct. 1, 1952; Pascagoula, Mississippi. 7:40 p.m. Witnesses: Mr. and Mrs. C.C. McLean and one other person. One round, milky-white object, shaped like a powder puff, hovered for 5-10 minutes then flew away very fast in an arc. A loud blast was heard at the start of the 22 minute sighting. Oct. 7, 1952; Alamagordo, New Mexico. 8:30 p.m. Witness: USAF Lt. Bagnell. One pale blue oval, with its long axis vertical, flew straight and level for 4-5 seconds, covering 30 in that time. Oct. 10, 1952; Otis AFB, Massachusetts. 6:30 p.m. Witnesses: USAF S/Sgt., two other enlisted men. One blinking white light moved like a pendulum for 20 minutes, and then shot straight up. Oct. 17, 1952; Taos, New Mexico. 9:15 p.m. Witnesses: Four USAF officers One round, bright blue light moved from north to northeast at an elevation of 45* for 2-3 seconds and then burned out. Oct. 17, 1952; Killeen, Texas. 10:15 p.m. Witnesses: Ministers Greenwalt and Kluck. Ten lights, or a rectangle of lights, moved more or less straight and level for 5 seconds. Oct. 17, 1952; Tierra Amarilla, New Mexico. 11 p.m. Witness: one military person (no detail). One white streamer moved at an estimated 3,000 m.p.h. in an arc for 20 seconds. No further details in files. Oct. 19, 1952; San Antonio, Texas. 1:30 p.m. Witness: one ex-USAF aircrewman Woolsey. Three circular aluminum objects, one of which was olive-drab colored on the side, flew in a rough V-formation. One object flipped slowly, another object stopped, during the 3-4 minute sighting. Oct. 19. 1952; 500 miles south of Hawaii. 6:58 p.m. Witnesses: crew of USAF C-50 transport plane. One round yellow light, with a red glowing edge, estimated at 100' in diameter, flew at 300-400 kts. (350-450 m.p.h.) for 20 seconds. Oct. 21, 1952; Knoxville, Tennessee. No time given. Witnesses: persons at airport weather station. Six white lights flew in a loose formation for 1-2 minutes, and made a shallow dive at a weather balloon. Oct. 24, 1952; Elberton, Alabama. 8:26 p.m. Witnesses: USAF Lt. Rau, Capt. Marcinko, flying a Beech T-ll trainer. One object, shaped like a plate, with a brilliant front and vague trail, flew with its concave surface forward for 5 seconds. Oct. 29, 1952; Erding Air Depot, West Germany. 7:50 a.m. Witnesses: USAF S/Sgt. Anderson, A/2c Max Handy. One round object, silhouetted against a cloud, flew straight and level and smooth at 400 m.p.h. for 20 seconds. Oct. 31, 1952; Fayetteville, Georgia. 7:40 p.m. Witness: USAF Lt. James Allen. One orange, blimp-shaped object, 80' long and 20' high, flew at treetop level, crossed over Allen's car (at which time his radio stopped playing), then climbed out at 45' and tremendous speed at the end of a 1 minute sighting. Nov. 3, 1952; Laredo AFB, Texas. 66:29 p.m. Witnesses: two control tower operators, including Lemaster. One long, elliptical, white-grey light flew very fast, paused, and then increased speed during a 3-4 second observation. Nov. 4, 1952; Vineland, New Jersey. 5:40 p.m. Witness: housewife Mrs. Sprague. Two groups of 2-3 whirling discs of light flew toward the southeast over a period of 30 seconds. Nov. 12, 1952; Los Alamos, New Mexico. 10:23 p.m. Witness: security inspector. Four red-white-green lights flew slowly over a prohibited area for 15 minutes. Nov. 13, 1952; Opheim, Montana. 2:20 a.m. Witness: radar tracking by USAF 779th AC&W station. An unexplained track was followed for 1 hour, 28 minutes, at 158,000' altitude (30 miles) and a speed of 240 m.p.h. Radar was FPS/3 (PPI). Nov. 13, 1952; Glasgow, Montana. 2:43 a.m. Witness: U.S. Weather Bureau observer Earl Oksendahl. Five oval-shaped objects, with lights all around them, flew in a V-formation for about 20 seconds. Each object seemed to be changing position vertically by climbing or diving as if to hold formation. Formation came from the northwest, made a 90* overhead, and flew away to the southwest. Nov. 15, 1952; Wichita, Kansas. 7:02 a.m. Witnesses: USAF Maj. R.L. Wallander, Capt. Belleman, A/3c Phipps. One orange object (a blue streak?) varied in shape, as it made jerky upward sweeps with 10-15 second pauses during a 3-5 minute sighting. Nov. 24, 1952; Annandale, Virginia. 6:30 p.m. Witness: L.L' Brettner. One round, glowing object flew very fast, made right angle turns and reversed course during a 1 hour sighting. Nov. 27, 1952; Albuquerque, New Mexico. 12:10 p.m. Witnesses: pilot and crew chief of UAAF B-26 bomber. A series of black smoke bursts (4-3-3-4-3), similar to antiaircraft fire, was seen over a 20 minute period.C. 12:30 a.m. Witnesses: radar Nov. 30, 1952; Washington, D.C. l operators at Washington National Airport. Radar trackings similar to those of July 26, 1952. Dec. 8, 1952; Ladd AFB, Alaska. 8:16 p.m. Witnesses: pilot lst Lt. D. Dickman and radar operator lst Lt. T. Davies in USAF F-94 jet interceptor (s/n 49-2522). One white, oval light which changed to red at higher altitude, flew straight and level for 2 minutes, then climbed at phenomenal speed on an erratic flight path. Sighting lasted 10 minutes. Dec. 9, 1952; Madison, Wisconsin. 5:45 p.m. Witnesses: Capt. Bridges and lst Lt. Johneon in USAF T-33 jet trainer. Four bright lights, in diamond formation, flew at 400 m.p.h. and were passed by the T-33 at 450 m.p.h. during the 10 minute sighting. Dec. 28, 1952; Marysville, California. Case missing from official files. -------Continued in Bluebook Part 4 ------------------------------------ -- -* Don Allen *- InterNet: dona@bilver.UUCP // Amiga..for the best of us. USnail: 1818G Landing Dr, Sanford Fl 32771 \X/ Why use anything else? :-) UUCP: ..uunet!tarpit!bilver!vicstoy!dona 0110 0110 0110 Just say NO! Illuminati < MJ-12|Greys|TLC|CFR|FED|Bilderbergs > UN = "New World Order" Article: 6314 of alt.conspiracy Path: ns-mx!uunet!crdgw1!ge-dab!tarpit!bilver!dona From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy Subject: INFO: Project Bluebook -UNKNOWNS- Part 4 Keywords: Project Bluebook UFO's Message-ID: <1991Jul4.021915.15773@bilver.uucp> Date: 4 Jul 91 02:19:15 GMT Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL Lines: 477 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:1089 alt.conspiracy:6314 --------Bluebook Part 4 --------------------------------------------- Jan. 1, 1953; Craig, Montana. 8:45 p.m. Witnesses: Warner Anderson and two women. A silver, saucer-shaped object with a red glowing bottom, flew low over a river and then climbed fast in a horizontal attitude. Ten second sighting. Jan. 8, 1953; Larson AFB, Washington. 7:15 a.m. Witnesses: men from the 82nd Fighter-Interceptor Squadron, including the squadron commander; all were on the ground. One green, disc- shaped or round object flew southwest for 15 minutes, with a vertically bobbing motion and sideways movements, below clouds. Jan. 10, 1953; Sonoma, California. 3:45 p.m. or 4 p.m. Witnesses: retired Col. Robert McNab, and Mr. Hunter of the Federal Security Agency. One flat object, like a pinhead, made three 360* right turns in 9 seconds, made abrupt 90* turns to the right and left, stopped, accelerated to original speed and finally flew out of sight vertically after 60-75 seconds. Jan. 17, 1953; near Guatemala City, Guatemala. 3:55 p.m. Witness: geologist/salesman J.J. Sackett. One brilliant green-gold object, shaped like the Goodyear blimp with its length twice its height, flew 400 m.p.h. straight and level, stopped, then went straight up with one stop. Sighting lasted 22 seconds. Jan. 28, 1953; Pt. Mugu, California. 1 p.m. Witness: R.W. Love, owner of Love Diving Co., engaged in retrieving radio- controlled drones. An 18-20' white, flat disc flew straight and level, overhead, for 6 minutes. Jan. 28, 1953; Corona, California. 6:05 p.m. Witness: USAF T/Sgt. George Beyer. Five 25' green spheres flew in V-formation, then changed to trail formation at which time the end objects turned red. Sighting lasted 12 minutes. Jan. 28, 1953; Albany, Georgia. No time given. Witnesses: radar maintenance personnel. Radar tracked one stationary target for 20 minutes. A visual sighting about the same time was explained. No further information in the files. Feb. 3, 1953; Keflavik, Iceland. 5:25 p.m. Witnesses: radar operators. Four unidentified targets were tracked for 24 minutes. No further data. Feb. 4, 1953; Yuma, Arizona. 1:50 p.m. Witness: U.S. Weather Bureau observer Stanley Brown, using a theodolite. One white, oblong object was tracked flying straight up, leveling off and being joined by a second, similar, object. The second twice flew away and returned to the first. After 5 minutes, both were lost to sight behind clouds. Feb. 17, 1953; Port Austin. Michigan. 10:04 p.m. Witnesses: two officers and three airmen of USAF AC&W squadron, visually and by radar. Visual object appeared to larger and brighter than a star and changed color; it was seen to move slowly for 5 minutes until 10:09 p.m. Radar picked up a target at 10:08 p.m. moving in a similar direction for 17 minutes, at similar speed. Feb. 20, 1953; Pittsburg-Stockton, California. #1 time unknown; #2, 10:30 p.m. Witnesses: USAF B-25 bomber pilots. #1 was a bright yellow light seen for 8 minutes. #2 was a bright light which flew on a collision course, dimmed and climbed away fast. Feb. 24, 1953; Sherman, Texas. 7:43 p.m. Witnesses: Warrant Officer and Mrs. Alden. Two bright red, round objects with big halos flew in small circles, climbed and faded during a 3-7 second sighting. Feb. 27, 1953; Shreveport, Louisiana. 11:58 a.m. Witness: USAF airman/private pilot. Five yellow discs made circular turns, fluttered, three of them vanished, the other two flew erratic square turns for a total of 4 minutes. March 11, 1953; Hackettstown, New Jersey. 4 a.m. Witness: Mrs. Nina Cook, an experienced private pilot and wife of a Pan Am flight engineer. A large light, blinking at 10-15 times per minute, moved up and down along a mountain range. March 14, 1953; north of Hiroshima, Japan. 11:45 p.m. Witnesses: radar and visual observation by 10 crew members of U.S. Navy P2V-5 patrol plane. Groups of 5-10 colored lights, totalling 90-100, slowly moved aft off the left side of the airplane, as detected visually and by airborne radar for 5 minutes. March 21, 1953; Elmira, New York. 3:05 p.m. Witness: Ground Observer Corps observation post. Six discs in a group flew high and fast for a few seconds. March 25, 1953; San Antonio, Texas. 3:05 p.m. Witnesses: USAF Capt. and Mrs. D.E. Cox. Several lights, some of which moved straight, others which made 360^ turns for 1.5 hours. March 27, 1953; Mt. Taylor, New Mexico. 7:25 p.m. Witness: pilot of USAF F-86 jet fighter at 600 kts. (700 m.p.h.). One bright orange circle flew at 800 kts. (900 m.p.h.), and executed three fast rolls. Pilot chased object for 4 minutes. March 29, 1953; Spooner, Wisconsin. 3:45 p.m. Witness: L.C. Gillette. One aluminum, circular object flew high and fast, twice reversing its course. Note: Mr. Gillette saw a similar object in 1938. Fifteen second sighting. April 8, 1953; Fukuoka, Japan. 7:55 p.m. Witness: lst Lt. D.J. Pichon, pilot of USAF F-94B jet interceptor. One bright blue light descended, accelerated, flew parallel to the F-94, increased its speed and blinked out after 45 seconds. April 15, 1953; Tucson, Arizona. 5:45 p.m. Witness: S/Sgt. V.A. Locey. Three orange lights were seen for: 3 minutes, 30 seconds, and a few seconds. May 1, 1953; Goose AFB, Labrador, Canada. 11:35 p.m. Witnesses: pilot and radar operator of USAF F-94 jet interceptor, and control tower operator. One white light evaded interception attempt by F-94 during 30 minute sighting. May 27, 1953; San Antonio, Texas. 8:30 p.m. Witnesses: many unidentified civilians, including Jacobson. Nine separate meandering lights were seen during 15 minute sighting. June 21, 1953; Naha, Okinawa. 7 p.m. Witnesses: Nine Japanese and Okinawan weather observers. One unidentified light moved slowly for 20 minutes. No further data in files. June 22, 1953; Goose AFB, Labrador, Canada. Z:lO a.m. Witnesses: pilot and radar operator of USAF F-94 jet interceptor. One red light, flying at an estimated 1,000 kts. (1,100 m.p.h.) eluded the chasing F-94 after 5 minutes. June 24, 1953; Iwo Jima, Bonin Islands. 11:30 p.m. Witnesses: crew of USAF KB-29 aerial tanker plane. Radar tracked an unidentified target which twice approached to within .5 miles of the airplane, and once to within 6 miles, during a 2 minute observation. June 24, 1953; Simiutak, Greenland. 11:30 a.m. Witness: weather observer A/2c R.A. Hill. One red triangle hovered and rotated for 15 seconds, then climbed for 5 minutes. Aug. 3, 1953; Amarillo, Texas. 12:04 p.m. Witness: Airport control tower chief C.S. Brown. One round and reflective or translucent object flew straight, stopped for 7 seconds, sped along, stopped again, was joined by a similar object and they flew off in different directions, after a total of 56 minutes. Aug. 20, 1953; near Castle AFB, California. 9:05 p.m. Witnesses: crew of TB-29 bomber/trainer plane. One greyish oval object made four passes at the airplane (three times at 10-20 miles distance), then dived vertically as if two objects. Aug. 27, 1953; Greenville, Mississippi. 9:45 p.m. Witnesses: USAF pilot, M/Sgt., others, all on the ground. One meandering light was observed for 50 minutes. No further details in file. Sept. 2, 1953; Sidi Slimane AFB, French Morocco. 9:14 p.m. Witnesses: Lt. Col. William Moore and lst Lt. J.H. McInnis, Dec. 24, 1953; El Cajon, California. 8:04 a.m. Witnesses: U.S. Navy Lts. J.B. Howard and L.D. Linhard, flying F9F-2 jet fighters. Ten silver, oval objects flew at more than 400 kts. (450 m.p.h.), straight and level, for 5 minutes. Dec. 28, 1953; Marysville, California. 11:55 a.m. Witness: Yuba County Airport Manager Dick Brandt. One saucer, with a brilliant blue light, reflecting on a nearby building, hovered briefly during the 1.5 minute observation. Jan. 28, 1954; Rangeley, Maine. 110-10:15 a.m. Witness: Wilhelm Reich. Two bright lights moved into valley, and were seen against the mountain background, for 15 minutes. Feb. 26, 1954; Newburyport, Massachusetts. 2:30 p.m. Witnesses: architect R.M. Pierce, marine engineer George Avery and one other person. One silver disc, with a white trail, made a loud roar for 30-60 seconds. March 2, 1954; vicinity of Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. 10 p.m. Witness: research engineer R.C. Swengel. Three objects, each with two lights, flew straight and level at medium speed for an unknown length of time. March 5, 1954; Nouasseur, French Morocco. 8 p.m. Witnesses: crews of USAF KC-97 aerial tanker planes. One object or light made passes at KC-97s, the other flew straight and level. Sighting duration unknown. March 12, 1954; Nouasseur, French Morocco. 9:35 a.m. Witness: USAF lst Lt. Robert Johnson, flying an F-86 jet fighter. He chased an object at more than 530 m.p.h. for 30 seconds, but was unable to catch it. It appeared to be the size of a fighter plane but had neither tanks nor trails. April 8, 1954; Chicago, Illinois. 4:30 p.m. Witness: Lelah Stoker. One white round-topped disc, with a humanoid suspended beneath it, skimmed over the water, landed, and an occupant in a green suit walked around. It then took off very, very fast. Sighting lasted 30 minutes. April 23, 1954; Pittsfield, Maine. 9:30 a.m. Witnesses: Mr. and Mrs. F.E. Robinson. One silver dollar-shaped object with a dome and a flashing light made a sound like a swarm of bees. It hovered and tilted, flew horizontally, then rose vertically without tilting. Stones underneath it moved. Four minute sighting. April 24, 1954; Hartland, Maine. 6:10 p.m. Witness: D. Robinson. One large, silver, oblong object with a dome and a flashing light flew straight and level and then straight up. Total of 15 minutes under observation. April 26, 1954; Athens, Georgia. 7:35 p.m. Witnesses: C. Cartey, Mr. and Mrs. H. Hopkins and their daughter. Fifteen to twenty yellow objects in a V-formation, flew from south to north for 10 seconds. May 10, 1954; Elsinore, California. 12:40 p.m. Witness: U.S. Marine Corps Squadron Leader D.R. Higgin, flying an F3D-2 jet fighter. One dark gunmetal delta-shaped object, 22' long and 10' wide, with a fin on the top, descended at a 25-30' angle under the lead airplane of a formation, and over the airplane of Higgin. Sighting lasted a few seconds. May 11, 1954; Washington, D.C. 10:45 p.m. Witnesses: three USAF.air policemen at Washington National Airport. Two bright lights were seen on three occasions to fly straight and level, make 90* turns and fade. Each sighting lasted about 45 seconds. May 22, 1954; LaPorte, Indiana. 9:15 p.m. Witnesses: highway engineer R.W. Dring, engineer Geert Tibma. One bright light made a shallow climb for 45 seconds. May 31, 1954; Concord, New Hampshire. 10:15 a.m. Witness: Mrs. L.K. Stevens. One very white, elongated object flew very, very fast, and then blinked out after 8-10 seconds. June 1, 1954; from 400 miles south to Minneapolis, Minnesota. 9 p.m. Witnesses: crew of USAF B-47 jet bomber at 34,000' altitude. One object with running lights flew at 24-44,000' altitude for 1 hour. June 8, 1954; Texarkana, Texas. 1 a.m. or 2:30 a.m. (file not clear). Witness: L.T. Prewitt, employee of Red River Arsenal. One golden yellow light flew over his house, making a "shhh" or buzzing sound for 2 minutes. 9:09 p.m. Witness: USAF pilot June 10, 1954; Estacado, Texas. 9:09 p.m. Witness: USAF pilot Capt. Bill McDonald, in flight. One white light descended at 45^ from great altitude, passed under his aircraft, made two 360' turns and went out after 30 seconds. June 22, 1954; Miami Beach, Florida. 9 p.m. Witnesses: U.S. Marine Corps Maj. E. Buchser and Maj. J.V. Wilkins. One meteor- like object descended, stopped, and became extremely bright. Sighting lasted 7 minutes. June 24, 1954; Danvers, Massachusetts. 12:45 p.m. Witness: R.B. Tomer, director of commercial engineering for CBS-Hytron. One white, elliptical-shaped object covered 45^ of sky in 30 seconds. June 25, 1954; Indian Lake, Ohio. 5:05 p.m. Witnesses: experienced private pilot John Mark, flying Navion lightplane; radar at Dayton, Ohio airport, tracked very fast target at same location. One silver or aluminum round object with a flat bottom, raised front edge, inverted cone on top, and a diameter of about 60'. Flew horizontally, hovered, made a high-G pull up and then a steep climb into an overcast. Sighting lasted 3-5 minutes. July 18, ; Normandy, Missouri. 8:40 p.m. Witness: A.T. Chamblin. One greenish-white disc was seen for 30 minutes. July 25, 1954; Middle Sister Island, on U.S.-Canadian border in western Lake Erie. 7:12 p.m. Witness: attorney L.B. Tussing. One black cylinder, 12 times long as wide, moved fast along the surface of the lake. July 30, 1954; Los Angeles, California. 10:15 a.m. Witness: Hughes Aircraft test pilots Englert and Peterson, flying a B-25 bomber. One metallic, pencil-shaped object flew slowly or hovered for an unstated length of time. Aug. 2, 1954; Westlake, Ohio. 5:17 p.m. Witness: ex-AAF B-17 gunner (19 missions) N.E. Schroeder. One thin, bright ellipse, like polished metal, hovered for 5-8 seconds, dropped down 3,000' in 3 seconds, hovered again and faded out after a total of 20 seconds in view. Aug' 6, 1954; San Antonio, Texas. 6 p.m. Witness: mechanical engineer L.H. Hormer. One intensely white elliptical light changed to yellow, then orange, then pink, four or five times while flying straight and level for 5 minutes. Aug. 11, 1954; Yoron Jima, near Okinawa. 8:55 p.m. Witness: P.L. Percharde, electrical engineer and assistant manager of Moeller Shipwrecker Co., of Okinawa. A line of blue lights, underneath. a blue circle with a black center. Flew over ship and climbed, illuminating and agitating the clouds. Aug. 15, 1954; San Marcos, Texas. 10:20 p.m. Witnesses: USAF Maj. W.J. Davis, Capt. R.D. Sauers, flying a C-47 transport plane. One dark blue oblong object paced the C-47, veered away, then crossed in front of it. Five minute sighting. Aug. 24, 1954; Egilstadir, Iceland. 8:30 p.m. Witness: one unnamed farmer. A cylinder, 2-2.5' long, 4-5' in diameter, made a loud whizzing sound, flew straight and level fast, then slow, then fell into sandbar. Aug. 26, 1954; Danville, Virginia. 6:15 a.m. Witness: Rev. W.L. Shelton. Two domed ellipses, 20' long, 8' thick, 10' at ends; glowing silver or orange. Hovered, then climbed side-by- side while getting brighter. Observed for 2 minutes. Aug. 27, 1954; Dorchester, Massachusetts. 1 p.m. Witness: E.A. Srazdes. Seven large, white, teardrop-shaped objects turned blue. Flew in line formation and increased speed during the 2 minute sighting. Aug. 29, 1954; Prince Christian, Greenland. 11:05 a.m. Witnesses: lst Officer H.G. Gardner, engineer J.V.D. Whitisy, flying Royal Dutch Airlines DC-4 (PH-DBZ). Three or four dark, lens-shaped objects veered north and changed position in formation during the 10 minute sighting. Sept. 4, 1954; Butler, Missouri. 3 a.m. Witness: J. Faltemeier, CAA communications specialist. Twenty-thirty lights, as if on a string, flew straight and level for 1.5 minutes. Sept. 5, 1954; Butler, Missouri. 12:23 a.m. Witness: J. Faltemeier, CAA communications specialist. One silver or white object with a slightly swept-back leading edge and a following exhaust, flew straight and level, then veered southwest to south after 30 seconds. Sept. 18, 1954; Kimpo Air Base, Japan. 5:55 a.m. Witnesses: two control tower operators, a weather forecaster and a weather observer. One round object, like polished aluminum, flew straight and level for 11-13 minutes. Sept. 21, 1954; Barstow, California. 1 a.m. Witnesses: two local policemen, four U.S. Marine Corps police, one highway patrolman. One red-orange ball giving off sparks, and a smaller light, made a zigzag descent and then hovered. Total of 20 minutes. Sept. 21, 1954; Santa Maria, Azores Islands. 9:45 p.m. Witness: airport guard. One 10'x5' light metallic blue, pecan-shaped object with a clear glass or plastic nose having a door, and with poles or aerials on the nose. Humming or whining, it hovered, landed vertically, 50' away. A blond man, 5' 10" tall appeared, spoke in a strange language, patted the guard on the shoulder, got in the object, hooked up his harness, pushed a button, took off with the object's nose pointed up, then levelled off and climbed vertically. Sighting lasted 2-3 minutes. Sept. 22, 1954; Marshfield, Missouri. 9 a.m. Witnesses: private pilot J.N. Williams, E.J. Ash. A thin, translucent tan asymmetrical boomerang-shaped object revolved, then tumbled down behind some trees. Marks were found in the dirt. Sighting lasted 15 minutes. Sept. 23, 1954; Gatlinburg, Tennessee. 9:45 a.m. Witness: Dave Owenby. Two bright silver, wheel-shaped objects flew from north to south in trail for 2 minutes. Oct. 13, 1954; Nouasseur, French Morocco. 10:05 a.m. Witness: weather observer, following a balloon with his theodolite. One round, flat, silver object flew straight and level for 30 seconds. Oct. 15, 16 and 17, 1954; Kingfisher, Oklahoma. 8:45 p.m. Fifty objects with illuminated bottoms were seen flying in a V-formation, very fast, on successive nights. Only data is on summary card. Oct. 28, 1954; Miho Air Base, Japan. 5:32 p.m. Witnesses: USAF pilots Lt. Col. O.C. Cook and Lt. J.W. Brown, on ground using 7x50 binoculars. One brilliant white, round-oval object climbed in front of clouds, brightened, turned 90 to the north. Seen for 45 seconds. Oct. 29, 1954; Terciera Islands, Azores. 9 p.m. Witnesses: four Portuguese nationals. One object, shaped like a stovepipe with a center bulge and short wings (10' long, 3' in diameter, 3' wings) having concave wingtips, and grey colored. Made a gargling sound when hovering, then disappeared in the glare of airplane landing lights. Sighting lasted 4-5 minutes. Nov. 15, 1954; Augusta, Maine. 44 p.m. Witness: N. Gallant, manager of radio station WFAV. Ten gold, circular objects flew in vertical V-formation, straight and level for 3 minutes. Nov. 19, 1954; Corvallis, Oregon. 4:15 p.m. Witness: P.J. Gunn, assistant professor of art at Oregon State University and ex-U.S. Navy aviation cadet. One bright white light hovered 8.5-9 minutes, then crossed 20 of sky in 3-3.5 minutes. Nov. 28, 1954; Manilla, Phillipine Islands. 10:50 a.m. Witness: one anonymous medical doctor. One flat-bottomed, domed object (65-70' across, 18-20' high), bright orange with yellow discs attached and an exhaust trail. Flew north, stopped, reversed its course during 4 minute sighting. Dec. 3, 1954; Gulfport, Mississippi 12:12 p.m. Witnesses: Mr. and Mrs. S.P. Mellen. One translucent grey, round, flat object rotated on its vertical axis at high r.p.m. for 30 seconds. Dec. 7, 1954; Cape Province, South Africa. 1:15 p.m. Witness: weather officer, using a theodolite. One white, semi-circular, flat object with a dome flew from west to east, then turned north. Sighting lasted 7 minutes. Jan, 1, 1955; Cochise, New Mexico. 6:44 a.m. Witnesses: instructor and student pilot in USAF B-25 bomber/trainer. A metallic disc, shaped like two pie pans face-to-face, and 120- 130' in diameter, paced the B-25, showing both its edge and its face, for 5-7 minutes. Only item in case file was summary form. Jan. 26, 1955; Lakeland, Florida. 6:15 p.m. Witness: J.M. Holland. A black smoke trail made a circle. There was an explosion and some objects fell. No further information in file. Feb.l, 1955; 20 miles east of Cochise, New Mexico. 7:55 p.m. Witnesses: Instructor Capt. D.F. Ritzdorf, aviation cadet F.W. Miller in TB-25 bomber/trainer. One red and white ball hovered off the left wing of the TB-25 for 5 minutes, then made a very fast climb. Total time of sighting was 8 minutes. Feb. 2, 1955; Miramar Naval Air Station, California. 11:50 a.m. Witness: USN Cmdr. J.L. Ingersoll. One highly polished sphere, with reddish-brown coloring, fell, then instantly accelerated to 1,000-1,500 m.p.h. Feb. 10, 1955; Bethesda, Maryland. 10:03 p.m. Witness: E.J. Stein, model maker at U.S. Navy ship design facility. One object, shaped like a small portion of the bottom of the Moon, with a radiant yellow color, hovered for 30 seconds. Its bottom changed to a funnel shape. Total sighting lasted 1.5-2 minutes. April 30, 1955; Travis County, Texas. 7:30 a.m. Witness USAF Wing Intelligence Officer Maj. L..J. Pagozalski. Four black objects in a cluster made a whooshing sound like a zephyr. Sighting lasted 2-3 seconds. May 4, 1955; Keflavik, Iceland. 12:38 p.m. Witnesses: Lt. Col. E.J. Stealy, lst Lt. J.W. Burt. About 10 round, white objects, one of which left a brief smoke trail, flew in an irregular formation, some of them making erratic movements during the 5-8 second sighting. May 23, 1955; Cheyenne, Wyoming. Midnight. Witnesses: USAF Airman/Basic I.J. Shapiro and E.C. Ingber. During a 5 minute period, two slender, vertical rectangles were seen low on the horizon, and two ovals with tops (dark, with dark blue illumination) flew higher. July 29, 1955; Columbus, Nebraska. 10:45 p.m. Witness: Morrice Raymond. Four orange flashing lights and one whIte flashing light moved up and down like yo-yos for 5-6 minutes. Aug. 11, 1955; Iceland. 11:45 a.m. Witness: 2nd Lt. E.J. Marlow. Twelve grey objects, from cigar to egg-shaped, varied --------Continued in Bluebook Part 5 -------------------------------- -- -* Don Allen *- InterNet: dona@bilver.UUCP // Amiga..for the best of us. USnail: 1818G Landing Dr, Sanford Fl 32771 \X/ Why use anything else? :-) UUCP: ..uunet!tarpit!bilver!vicstoy!dona 0110 0110 0110 Just say NO! Illuminati < MJ-12|Greys|TLC|CFR|FED|Bilderbergs > UN = "New World Order" Article: 6315 of alt.conspiracy Path: ns-mx!uunet!crdgw1!ge-dab!tarpit!bilver!dona From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy Subject: INFO: Project Bluebook -UNKNOWNS- Part 5 Keywords: Project Bluebook UFO's Message-ID: <1991Jul4.022028.15830@bilver.uucp> Date: 4 Jul 91 02:20:28 GMT Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL Lines: 533 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:1090 alt.conspiracy:6315 -----Bluebook Part 5 ---------------------------------------------- their formation from elliptical to wavy line to scattered to straight line to trail formation. Speed varied from hover to 1,000 m.p.h. Sighting lasted 3-4 minutes. Aug. 23, 1955; Arlington, Virginia. 10:45 a.m. Witness: G.M. Park, using a 400x telescope. Several orange lights moved singly or in groups, circling and stopping during 30 minute sighting. Sept. 3, 1955; Bellingham, Washington. Witness: observer Saunders for Ground Observer Corps. One white pinhead moved slowly across 30^ of sky in 15 minutes. No further information. Sept. 7, 1955; Washington, D.C. Witnesses: two photographers, one plate maker for the Army Map Service (one named Smith). One glowing round object flew an arc for 1 minute. Sept. 9, 1955; near Alcoa, Tennessee. 12 noon. Witness: M.N. Dawkins, using binoculars. One brown, almost square object flew with a circular motion for 10-15 minutes. Oct. 8, 1955; Loogootee, Indiana. 4:38 p.m. Witnesses: R.D. Prather, H. Ahern. One round, silver or white object flew straight and level at more than 1,000 m.p.h. for an unstated length of time. Oct. 11, 1955; Pt. Lookout, Maryland. 4 p.m. Witnesses: B. Hale, A. Ostrom. One round object which looked white in the daylight and turned red with sparks toward the end of the 2.5 hour sighting, made a deep roar, unlike an aircraft. Nov. 17, 1955; St. Louis, Missouri. 6:10 a.m. Witness: J.A. Mapes. Twelve round, flat objects, silver on top and dark on the bottom, flew in 4-deep formation, tipping in pitch and roll, for 45 seconds. Nov. 20, 1955; Lake City, Tennessee. 5:20 p.m. Witnesses: Operations Officer Capt. B.G. Denkler and five men of the USAF 663rd AC&W Sqdn. Two oblong, bright orange, semi-transparent objects flew at terrific speed and erratically, toward and away from each other. Observed by various persons form 4 to 15 minutes. Nov. 25, 1955; La Veta, Colorado. 10:30 a.m. Witness: State Senator S.T. Taylor. One dirigible-shaped object (fat front, tapered toward the tail) object, which was luminous green-blue and jellylike, appeared overhead diving at a 45' angle, then reduced angle to 30'. Object seen for 5 seconds. Dec. 21, 1955; Caribou, Maine. 111 p.m. Witness: Roberta V. Jacobs. One round, very bright gold, domed disc made a short climb, rotated, hovered and then accelerated during the 6-8 minute sighting. Feb. 12, 1956; Goose Bay, Labrador, Canada. 11:25 p.m. Witnesses: F-89 pilot Bowen, radar observer Crawford. One green and red object rapidly circled the aircraft while being tracked on radar during 1 minute sighting. No further details. Feb, 19, 1956; Houston, Texas. 6:07 a.m. Witnesses: crew of Eastern Airlines Super Constellation. One intense white light, moving 4-5 times the speed of the airplane, was evaded by the pilot. April 4, 1956; McKinney, Texas. 3:15 p.m. Witnesses: Capt. Roy Hall, U.S. Army, ret.; Charles Anderson and others; some observed through a 6" telescope, others through a 55-200x telescope. One fat, oblong object with two lines around its middle, remained stationary for 6 hours. June 6, 1956; Banning, California. 5:30 a.m. Witness: Mr. Bierman. One thin disc with a small dome, shimmering silver, hovered about 100 yards away for 8-10 seconds, then zoomed up. Aug. 8, 1956; 20 miles south of Quartsite, Arizona. ll p.m. Witnesses: attorneys W.B. Buttermore and J.W. Smith. One blue-white pulsating light flew fast, straight and level, for 5-7 minutes. Aug. 27, 1956; Juniata, Pennsylvania. 9:55 p.m. Witness: Mrs. R.S. Pope. One bright disc with a clear dome flew vertically, then north. A very cold breeze seemed to have been originated by the object during the 3 minute sighting. Sept. 4, 1956; Dallas, Texas. 9 p.m. Witnesses: U.S. Marine Corps T/Sgt. R.D. Rogers and family. One large star, changing to red color, remained stationary for 20 minutes, then went west at 200 kts. (230 m.p.h.). Sighting lasted 23 minutes. Sept. 14, 1956; Highland, North Carolina. 1 a.m. Witness: Scaly, N. Car. policeman O.S. Gryman. Fourteen yellow-to-red round objects with tremendous exhaust, flew in a Vague formation from southwest to east to northeast and back again, while swoooping up and down. Sighting lasted 1.5 hours. Nov. 1, 1956; 60 miles east of St. Louis, Missouri, in Illinois. 5:30 p.m. Witness: USAF Capt. W..M. Lyons, Intelligence Division Chief (Aerial Weather Reconnaissance Officer), flying a T-33 jet trainer. One orange light with a blue tinge, flew across the sky for 2 minutes. Nov. 30, 1956; Charleston AFB, South Carolina. 12:48 p.m. Witness: USAF aerial navigator Maj. D.D. Grimes. One unspecified object flew at an estimated 100' altitude over water for 10 minutes. No further details. Dec. 31, 1956; Guam. 2:10 a.m. Witness: USAF lst Lt. Ted Brunson, flying an F-86D jet interceptor. One round, white object flew under the F-86D, which was unable to turn as sharply as the object. April 25, 1957; Ringgold, Louisiana. Military witness Robertson. Case missing from official files. June 12, ; Milan, Italy. 7:30 p.m. Witness: G.U. Donadio, translator for export-import firm. One object "big as a hen's egg" flew very fast, zigzagged, hovered and revolved, then shot up after 17 minutes. July 27 or 29, 1957; Longmont, Colorado. Early morning. Witness: J.L. Siverly. One thick disc, ice blue, with a top like honeycomb (interconnected hexagons), hovered and rocked below the hill tops for 10 minutes. Middle band was scalloped, bottom had four kidney-shaped forms. July 29, 1957; Cleveland, Ohio. 10:31 p.m. Witnesses: Capital Airlines Capt. R.L. Stimley, First Officer F.J. Downing. One large, round, yellow-white object dimmed once, crossed the bow of the airliner, which then gave chase but was unable to catch it. Sighting last 8 minutes. July 29, 1957; Oldsmar, Florida. 11:45 a.m. Witness: E.E. Henkins. One pale yellow fireball glided into the water and exploded. Viewed for 1 minute. Sept. 20, 1957; Kadena AFB, Okinawa. 8 p.m. Witnesses: S/Sgt. H.T. O'Connor, S/Sgt. H.D. Bridgeman. One object, shaped like a coke bottle without the neck, translucent and fluorescent. Made four 5-10 second passes from north to south, with 4-5 minutes between passes. Oct. 8, 1957; Seattle, Washington. 9:17 a.m. Witnesses: two U.S. Army sergeants. Two flat, round, white objects flew in trail formation along an irregular path, frequently banking during 25-30 seconds. Nov. 6, 1957; Radium Springs, New Mexico. 10:50 p.m. Witnesses: one Las Cruces policeman, one Dona Ana County Deputy Sheriff. One round object--changing from red to green to blue to white-- rose vertically from a mountain top. Sighting lasted 10 minutes. Nov. 8, 1957; Merrick, Long Island, New York. l0:10 a.m. Witness: Mrs. L. Dinner. One bar-shaped object, 3.5' long, giving off blue flashes, made a swishing sound. No further data. Nov. 26, 1957; Robins AFB, Georgia. 10:07 a.m. Witnesses: three control tower operators, one weather observer and four others. One silver, cigar-shaped object suddenly vanished after 8 minutes. Nov. 30, 1957; New Orleans, Louisiana. 2:11 p.m. Witnesses: three U.S. Coast Guardsmen. One round object turned white, then gold, then separated into three parts and turned red. Sighting lasted 20 minutes. Dec. 13, 1957; Col Anahuac, Mexico. 9:35 a.m. Witness: R.C. Cano. Fourteen-fifteen circular, tapered discs, very bright, flew in a formation like a stack of coins, then changed to an inverted-V formation. Sighting lasted 20 minutes. Dec. 17, 1957; near Grand Junction, Colorado. 7:20 p.m. Witness: F.G. Hickman, 17. One round object changed from yellow to white to green to red; red tail was twice as long as the body. It stopped, started, backed up for 45 minutes. March 14, 1958; Healdsburg, California. 8:45 a.m. Witnesses: Mr. and Mrs. W.F. Cummings and one other. A 3' round, black object touched the ground and then took off. Watched for 2 minutes. April 14, 1958; Lynchburg, Virginia. 1 p.m. Witness: USAF Maj. D.G. Tilley, flying C-47 transport. One grey-black rectangular object rotated very slowly on its horizontal axis for 4 seconds. May 9, 1958; Bohol Island, Phillipine Islands. 11:05 a.m. Witness: Phillipine Airlines pilot. One object with a shiny, metallic surface was falling and spinning for 1.5 minutes. June 14, 1958; Pueblo, Colorado. 10:46 a.m. Witness: airport weather observer O.R. Foster, using a theodolite. An object shaped like Saturn, less the bottom part; silver with no metallic luster, flew overhead for 5 minutes. June 20 ,1958; Ft. Bragg, North Carolina. 11:05 p.m. Witness: Battalion Communication Chief SFC A. Parsley. One silver, circular object, its lower portion seen through a green haze, hovered, then oscillated slightly, then moved at great speed. Watched for 10 minutes. Aug. 17, 1958; Warren, Michigan. 7:05 p.m. Witness: A.D. Chisholm. One extremely bright object shaped first like a bell, then like a saucer, hovered for 5 minutes, flipped over and sped away to the west-south-west. Sighting lasted 6-10 minutes. Sept. 1, 1958; Wheelus AFB, Libya. 12:15 a.m. Witness: Philco technical representative A.M. Slaton. One round, blue-white object flew at varying speeds. First sighting lasted 2 minutes, second lasted 1.5 minutes. Oct. 2, 1958; Stroudsburg, Pennsylvania. 2:30 p.m. Witness: naturalist Ivan Sanderson. One dull-grey object, shaped like a pickle with a flat bottom, flew erratically and made loops for 15 seconds. Oct. 27, 1958; Lock Raven Dam, Maryland. 10:30 p.m. Witnesses: Phillip Small, Alvin Cohen. One large, flat egg-shaped object affected a car's electrical system and caused a burning sensation on one of its occupants. Sighting lasted 1 minute. Nov. 3, 1958; Minot, North Dakota. 2:01 p.m. Witness: M/Sgt. William R. Butler, medic. One bright green object, shaped like a 10 cent piece, and one smaller, silver round object. First object exploded, then second object moved toward the location of the first at high speed. Sighting lasted 1 minute. March 26 or 27, 1959; Corsica, Pennsylvania. 12:45 p.m. Witness: T.E. Clark. One dark red, barrel-shaped object, 20' long, 6-7' high, descended below some trees during the 3 minute sighting. June 18, 1959; Edmonton, Alberta, Canada. 9:30 p.m. Witnesses: A. Cavelli and R. Blessin, using 7x binoculars. One brown, cigar-shaped object came from below the horizon (close to the witnesses) ascending to 40-50^ above the horizon in 4 minutes. June 30, 1959; Patuxent River NAS, Maryland. 8:23 p.m. Witness: USN Cdr. D. Connolly. One gold, oblate-shaped object, nine times as wide as it was thick, metallic and with sharp edges, flew straight and level for 20-30 seconds. July 25, 1959; Irondequoit, New York. 1 p.m. Witness: technical illustrator W.D. Neva. One thin, crescent moon-shaped object with a small white dome in the center, flew at tremendous speed for 5-10 seconds. Aug. 10, 1959; Goose AFB, Labrador, Canada. 1:28 a.m. Witness: Royal Canadian Air Force pilot Flt. Lt. M.S. Mowat, on ground. One large star-like light crossed 53* of sky in 25 minutes. Sept. 13, 1959; Gills Rock, Wisconsin. 1:05 a.m. Witness: R.H. Daubner. One round yellow light, with eight blue lights within it, and then five larger red lights, flew very fast vertically while making a pulsating jet noise. Sighting lasted 10 minutes. Sept. 13, 1959; Bunker Hill AFB, Indiana. 4 p.m. Witnesses: at least two control tower operators and the pilot of a Mooney private airplane. One pear-shaped object, colored white, cream, and metallic, with a trail under it. Object showed little movement during 3 hours. Attempted intercept by USAF T-33 jet trainer failed. Oct. (3rd or 4th week), 1959; Telephone Ridge, Oregon. 9:15 p.m. Witness: department store manager C.A. Cissman. One bright light approached, hovered about 30 minutes, and then was up and gone in 2 seconds. Oct. 4, 1959; Quezon, Phillipine Islands. 9:25 p.m. Witnesses: USN Lt. C.H. Pogson, CPO K.J. Moore. One large round or oval object, changing from red to red-orange, flew straight and level for 15 minutes. Oct. 6, 1959; Lincoln, Nebraska. 8:15 p.m. Witnesses: Lt. Col. L. Liggett (Selective Service) and wife. One round, white-yellow light made several abrupt turns and flew very fast for 2 minutes. Oct. 19. 1959; P]ainvjlle! Kansas. 9:25 p.m. Witness: Capt. F.A. Henney, engineering instructor at USAF Academy, flying a T-33 jet trainer. One bright yellowish light came head-on at the T-33, the pilot avoided it and the light dimmed. Sighting lasted 30 seconds. Nov. 18, 1959; Crystal Springs, Mississippi. 6:25 p.m. Witness: J.M. Porter. A row of red lights flew slow, then speeded up immensely. Sighting lasted 5-6 minutes. Feb. 27, 1960; Rome AFB, New York. 6:27 p.m. Witnesses: control tower officer Capt. J. Huey and four other tower operators. One light trailing a white fan shape, made a mild descent for 3-4 minutes. 5:55 p.m. Witness: Charles March 4, 1960; Dubuque, Iowa. 5:5 Morris. Three elliptical-shaped objects made a slight climb for 4 minutes. Film exposed during sighting showed no images of the objects. March 23, 1960; Indianapolis, Indiana. 3:35 a.m. Witnesses: Mr. and Mrs. E.I. Larsen. A series of balls, arranged like an "X" with one diagonal line, seen for 3/4 of a minute. Note: little data on the case in the files. April 12, 1960; LaCamp, Louisiana. 9 p.m. Witness: Monroe Arnold. One fiery-red disc exploded four or five times. Analysis of paint samples from explosion proved inconclusive. Sighting lasted 2-3 seconds. April 17, 1960; Richards-Gebauer AFB, Missouri. 8:29 p.m. Witnesses: USAF Maj. J.G. Ford and Link representative A. Chapdelaine, using a 48x telescope. One reddish glow made an odd orbit for 2.5 minutes. April 25, 1960; Shelby, Montana. 7-10 p.m. Witness: Mrs. M. Clark. Five circular objects flew in trail formation, hovered and accelerated and made sharp turns. Case file includes other reports from Mrs. Clark for previous 3 years. July 19, 1960; St. Louis, Missouri. 8:30 p.m. Witness: T.L. Ochs. One round, bright red light flew overhead, stopped and hovered, and then backed up. Sighting lasted 20 minutes. Note: Ochs reported similar sightings on three following nights. Aug. 23, 1960; Wichita, Kansas. 3::24 a.m. Witness: Boeing aeronautical engineer C.A. Komiske. One round object with yellow lights coming from what looked like three triangular windows at bottom. Object was dull orange. Flew in an arc for 2 minutes. Aug. 29, 1960; Crete, Illinois. 4:05 p.m. Witness: farmer Ed Schneeweis. One shiny, round, silver object flew straight up very fast for 18 seconds. Sept. 10, 1960; Ridgecrest, California. 9:50 p.m. Witnesses: Mr. and Mrs. M.G. Evans. Two light gray glowing objects, saucer or boomerang-shaped, which swished when accelerating. Seen 1-2 seconds each. Oct. 5, 1960; Mt. Kisko, New York. 7:37 p.m. Witness: E.G. Crossland. One bright, star-like light moved across 120^ of sky in 20 seconds. Nov. 27, 1960; Chula Vista, California. 7:30 p.m. Witnesses: Mr. and Mrs. L.M. Hart. One orange-red point of light made huge circles and stopped during the 20-30 minute sighting. Nov. 29, 1960; south of Kyushu, Japan. 6:38 p.m. Witnesses: USAF Lt. Col. R.L. Blwlin (sp?) and Maj. F.B. Brown, flying a T-33 jet trainer. One white light 8lowed and paralleled the course of the T-33 for 10 minutes. Feb, 27, 1961; Bark River, Michigan. 10:15 p.m. Witness: Mrs. LaPalm. One fiery-red, round object, preceded by light rays, slowed and descended, while her dog howled. Sighting lasted 10 minutes. Spring, 1961; Kemah, Texas. Case missing from official files. April 24, 1961; 200 miles SW of San Francisco, California (35' 50' N., 125' 40 W.). 3:34 a.m. Witnesses: aircraft commander Capt. H.J. Savoy and navigator lst Lt. M.W. Rand, on USAF RC-l2lD patrol plane. One reddish-white, round object or light, similar to satellite. Observed for 8 minutes. May 22, 1961; Tyndall AFB, Florida. 4:30 p.m. Witnesses: Mrs. A.J. Jones and Mrs. R.F. Davis. One big silver dollar disc hovered and revolved, then suddenly disappeared after 15 minutes. June 2, 1961; Miyako Jima, Japan. 10:17 P.m. Witnesses: lst Lt. R.N. Monahan and Hazeltine Electric Co. technical representative D.W. Mattison. One blue-white light flew erratic course at varying speed, in an arc-like path for 5 minutes. July 7, 1961; Copemish, Michigan. 11 p.m. Witness: waitress Nannette Hilley. One large ball flew slow, split into four after 45 minutes. Four flew close formation, descended and flew away to the west. Total sighting lasted 1 hour. July ll, 1961; Springfield, Ohio. 7:45 p.m. Witnesses: ex-air navigator G. Scott, Mrs. Scott, and neighbors. One round, bright light like shiny aluminum, passed overhead in 20 minutes. July 20, 1961; Houston, Texas. 88 a.m. Witnesses: Trans-Texas Airlines Capt. A.V. Beather, flying DC-3, plus vague report from ground radar. Two very bright white light or objects flew in trail formation for 30 minutes. Aug. 12, 1961; Kansas City, Kansas. 9 p.m. Witnesses: college seniors J.B. Furkenhoff and Tom Phipps. One very large oval object with a fin extending from one edge to the center; like a sled with lighted car running boards. Hovered at 50' altitude for 3-5 minutes, then flew straight up and east. Nov. 21, 1961; Oldtown, Florida. 7:30 p.m. Witnesses: C. Locklear and Helen Hatch. One round, red-orange object flew straight up and faded after 3-4 minutes. Nov. 23, 1961; Sioux City, Iowa. 9:30 p.m. Witness: F. Braunger. One bright red star flew straight and level for 15 minutes. Dec. 13, 1961; Washington, D.C. 5:05 p.m. Witnesses: C.F. Muncy, ex-U.S. Navy pilot W.J. Myers, and G. Weber. One dark diamond-shaped object with a bright tip flew straight and level for 1-3 minutes. Feb. 25, 1962; Kotzbue, Alaska. 7:20 p.m. Witnesses: one U.S. Army private, six anonymous civilians. One red light, trailed 30 seconds later by a blue light. Sighting lasted 5 minutes. March l, 1962; Salem, New York. 10:35 p.m. Witness: Mrs. L. Doxsey, 66. One gold-colored box, 12-14"x3-4", flew straight and level across the horizon for 3-4 minutes. . March 26, 1962; Ramstein Air Base, West Germany. 1:35 p.m. Witness: USAF Capt. J.M. Lowery, from an unspecified aircraft. One thin, cylindrical object--l/3 snout, 2/3 tail fins--flew at an estimated Mach 2.7 (2,000 m.p.h.) for 5-8 seconds. March 26, 1962; Naperville, Illinois. 11:40 p.m. Witnesses: Mrs. D. Wheeler, Claudine Milligan. Six or eight red balls, arranged in a rectangular formation, became two objects with lights by the end of the 15 minute sighting. March 26, 1962; Westfield, Massachusette. 10:45 p.m. Witnesses: many unidentified young people. One large red ball flew or fell down, then went back up during 3-10 minute sighting. Note: May 26? April 4, 1962; Wurtland, Kentucky. 0150Z. Witnesses: G.R. Wells and J. Lewis, using 117x telescope. One small object changing brightness, gave off smoke but remained stationary like a comet for 6 minutes. Case missing from official files. June 21, 1962; Indianapolis, Indiana. 4 a.m. Witnesses: Lt. Col. H. King and tail gunner M/Sgt. Roberts, aboard a B-52 heavy jet bomber. Three bright, star-like lights: one seen; 10 seconds later, two more were seen. Total sighting took 3 minutes. June 30, 1962; Richmond, Virginia. 9 a.m. Witness: 13 year old Meadors. One red, star-like light seen for an unspecified length of time. No further details in files. July 19, 1962. Bayhead, New Jersey. 9:30 p.m. Witnesses: C.T. Loftus, H. Wilbert. Four or five lights darted about the sky for 7-10 minutes. July 29, 1962; Ocean Springs, Mississippi. 11:20 p.m. Witnesses: Mr. and Mrs. M.O. Barton. One bright cherry-red, diamond-shaped object flew slow, hovered, made fast 1/2 loops for l0 minutes. Aug. 18, 1962; Bermuda. 5 p.m. Witnesses: owner M. Sheppard and chief announcer A. Seymour of radio station. Three dull-white, egg-shaped objects wavered as they moved for 20 minutes. Sept. 21, 1962; WSW of Biloxi, Mississippi, in the Gulf of Mexico. 7:37 p.m. Witness: fishing boat captain S.A. Guthrie. Two objects, red and black with orange streaks, one as big as the Moon, and the other smaller. Arced across the sky for 13 minutes. Oct. 23, 1962; Farmington, Utah. 3 p.m. Witness: R.O. Christensen. One grey and silver ball, trailing what looked like twine with two knots in it, swerved, and climbed away at a 45' angle, making a sound like a flock of ducks (rushing air). Twenty seconds. Nov. 17, 1962; Tampa, Florida. 99 p.m. Witness: F.L. Swindale, college graduate and ex-USMC Capt. Three bright star-like lights approached, hovered and bounced, then faded after 11-15 minutes. May 18, 1953; New Plymouth, New Zealand. 10:30 p.m. Witness: C.S. Chapman, 15. One white, fuzzy, flashing light hovered and darted around for 4 minutes. May 22, 1963; Pequannock, New Jersey. 10:45 p.m. Witness: Myra Jackson. Four pink wheels spun or rolled very fast from east to west in succession, each taking about 1 second. June 15, 1963; 200 miles north of Venezuela (14* 27' N., 69* 57' E.). 10:39 a.m. Witness: 3rd Mate R.C. Chamberlin, of S/ Thetis. One luminous disc travelled at 1.5 times the speed of satellite for 3-4 minutes. Summer, 1963; Middletown, New York. 9:30 or 10 p.m. Witness: Grace Dutcher. Eight-ten lights moved at random, then in an oval formation, then singly, during the 1 minute sighting. July 1, 1963; Glen Ellyn, Illinois. 8 p.m. Witness: R.B. Stiles, ll, using a theodolite. One light, the size of a match head at arm's length, flashed and moved around the sky for 1.5 hours. Aug. 11, 1963; Warrenville, Illinois. 10 p.m. Witness: R.M. Boersma. One light moved around the sky for 20 seconds. Aug. 13, 1963; St. Gallen, Switzerland. 8:04 p.m. Witness: A.F. Schelling. One fireball became a dark object after 4 minutes, and then a bigger glow, a minute later, and finally exploded. Note: same witness had another, undescribed, sighting on Aug. 14 Sept. 14, 1963; Susanville, California. 3:15 p.m. Witness: E.A. Grant, veteran of 37 years training forest fire lookouts for the U.S. Forest Service. One round object intercepted a long object and either attached itself to the latter or disappeared. Sighting lasted l0 minutes. Sept. 15, 1963; Vandalia, Ohio. 66 p.m. Witness: Mrs. F.E. Roush. Two very bright gold objects--one shaped like a banana and the other like an ear of corn--one remained stationary, the other moved from west to north during 10 minutes, Oct. 4, 1963; Bedford, Ohio. 3:32 p.m. Witness: R.E. Carpenter, 15. One intense oblong light with tapered ends and surrounded by an aqua haze, flashed and flickered while stationary for 15 seconds. --------Continued in Bluebook Part 6 --------------------------------- -- -* Don Allen *- InterNet: dona@bilver.UUCP // Amiga..for the best of us. USnail: 1818G Landing Dr, Sanford Fl 32771 \X/ Why use anything else? :-) UUCP: ..uunet!tarpit!bilver!vicstoy!dona 0110 0110 0110 Just say NO! Illuminati < MJ-12|Greys|TLC|CFR|FED|Bilderbergs > UN = "New World Order" Article: 6316 of alt.conspiracy Path: ns-mx!uunet!crdgw1!ge-dab!tarpit!bilver!dona From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy Subject: INFO: Project Bluebook -UNKNOWNS- Part 6 (conclusion) Keywords: Project Bluebook UFO's Message-ID: <1991Jul4.022145.15887@bilver.uucp> Date: 4 Jul 91 02:21:45 GMT Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL Lines: 525 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:1091 alt.conspiracy:6316 -------Bluebook Part 6 (CONCLUSION) -------------------------------- Oct. 23, 1963; Meridian, Idaho. 8:35 p.m. Witnesses: several unnamed students, including Gordon. One object shaped like a circle from below and like a football from the side, hovered low over the observers, making a deep, pulsating, loud, extremely irritating sound, for 6 minutes. Oct. 24, 1963; Cupar Fife, Scotland. No time given. Witnesses: A. McLean (12) and G. McLean (8). One light moved for an unspecified length of time. No further details in files. Note: Project Blue Book chief Maj. H. Quintanilla told the youngsters, in a letter, that this was "one of the most complete" of the unexplained cases for the year. Dec. 11, 1963; McMinnville, Oregon. 7 a.m. Witness: W.W. Dolan, professor of mathematics and astronomy, and dean of the faculty of Linfield College. One bright, star-like light hovered, slowed, dimmed and flashed in 1 minute. Dec. 16, 1963; 800 miles north of Midway Island (40* N., 175* 54' W.). 5:05 p.m. Witness: unspecified persons aboard a military aircraft. One white light blinked 2-3 times per second as it moved very fast across the sky for 15 seconds. April 3, 1964; Monticello, Wisconsin. 9 p.m. Witnesses: Mr. and Mrs. R. Wold (he was a graduate student in anthropology). Four huge red lights in a rectangular formation, with a white light above, were near the ground, tilted and flew away after 3-4 minutes. April 11, 1964; Homer, New York. 6:30 p.m. Witnesses: physiotherapist W.B. Ochsner and wife. Two cloud-like objects darkened; one shot away and returned during the 30-45 minute sighting. April 24, 1964; Socorro, New Mexico. 5:45 p.m. Witness: Socorro policeman Lonnie Zamora. Watched object with flame underneath descend toward the desert. Two small humanoids observed near vertical oval on ground. Later watched object take off with a roar, go silent and fly away. Burning and charred brush found at landing sight. May 9, 1964; Chicago, Illinois. 10:20 p.m. Witness: J.R. Betz, U.S. District Court reporter. Three light green crescent-shaped objects, about half the apparent size of the Moon, flew very fast in tight formation from east to west, oscillating in size and color for 3 seconds. May 18, 1964; Mt. Vernon, Virginia. 5:15 p.m. Witness: civil engineer F. Meyers. One small, glowing white oval split twice after moving from the right of the Moon around to the left. Sighting lasted 17 minutes. May 26, 1964; Cambridge, Massachusetts. 7:43 p.m. Witness: P. Wankowicz, RAF pilot and ex-Smithsonian satellite tracker. One thin, white ellipsoid (3.5 times as long as wide) flew straight and level for 3-4 seconds. May 26, 1964; Pleasantview, Pennsylvania. 11 p.m. Witness: Rev. H.C. Shaw. One yellow-orange light, shaped like the bottom of a ball, was spotted in a field and chased down the road for 2 miles. June 13, 1964; Toledo, Ohio. 9:15 p.m. Witness: B.L. English, announcer for radio station WTOD. Three glowing white spheres, glowing red on their sides, moved slow, hovered and then moved in circles very fast, all the while making a low, rumbling sound. July 16, 1964; 15 miles south of Houghton Lake, Michigan. 11:15 p.m. Witness: Northern Air Service pilot K. Jannereth. Four white lights in a stepped-up echelon formation, were joined by two more. They closed in on the airplane, then rapidly slowed nd flew along with it for a total of 5 minutes. July 20, 1964; Littleton, Illinois. 4:45 a.m. Witness: J.J. Winkle. One 60' diameter round-topped, flat-bottomed object with a long acetylene-colored flame shooting downward, flew straight and level, made a half loop, then rose up. Sighting lasted l minute. July 27, 1964; Norwich, New York. 7:30 p.m. Witness: Duabert, engineering supervisor. One aluminum sphere with a luminous ring, remained stationary for 4-5 minutes. July 27, 1964; Denver, Colorado. 8:20 p.m. Witness: A. Borsa. One white ball of fire, the size of a car, climbed slowly, then speeded up. Sighting lasted 2-3 minutes. Aug. 10, 1964; Wake Island. 5:16 a.m. Witnesses: aircraft commander Capt. B.C. Jones and navigator lst Lt. H.J. Cavender, in parked USAF C-124 transport plane. One reddish, blinking light approached the runway, stopped and made several reverses during 2 minutes. Aug. 15, 1964; New York, New York. 1:20 a.m. Witness: S.F. D'Alessandro. One 10'x5' bullet-shaped object with wavy lines on the rounded front part and six pipes along the straight rear portion, made a "whishhh" sound. Witness' dog growled during . sighting. Aug. 15, 1964; Yosemite National Park, California. 8:15 a.m. Witnesses: E.J. Haug, of the San Francisco Orchestra and the San Francisco Conservatory of Music; and C.R. Bubb, a high school mathematics teacher. Three bright silver, round objects, in a stack formation, flew very fast, changing positions within the formation. The sound of rushing air was heard during the 3-4 second sighting. Aug. 18, 1964; Atlantic Ocean, 200 miles east of Dover, Delaware. 12:35 a.m. Witnesses: Maj. D.W. Thompson and First Pilot lst Lt. J.F. Jonke, on a USAF C-124 transport plane. One round, blurred, reddish-white object was on a collision course with the C-124 from ahead and below. The airplane evaded the object. Sighting las ted 2 minutes. Sept. 10, 1964; Cedar Grove, New Jersey. 7:09 p.m. Witness: chemist P.H. DePaolo. Four white lights, 3-4 apart, were seen to the north, going west for 45 seconds. Nov. 14, 1964; Menominee Falls, Wisconsin. 9:40 p.m. Witnesses: Dr. G.R. Wagner, MD; and two girls. Three dim, reddish lights flew through a 160^ arc in 5-6 seconds. Nov. 19, 1964; 1,400 miles east of Tokyo, Japan (34' 55' N., 164* 05' E.). Witnesses: unidentified military persons. One bright white flashing light was travelling from horizon to horizon in 20 seconds. Jan, 23, 1965; Williamsburg, Virginia. 8:40 a.m. Witness: Mr. T.F. Mains. One mushroom or lightbulb-shaped object, 75-80' high, 25' diameter on top and l0' bottom diameter; metallic grey with a red-orange glow on the near side and a blue glow on the far side. The object made a sound like a vacuum cleaner. The witness' car electrical system was affected as the object moved away at an altitude of 4'. The sighting lasted 25 seconds. March 4, 1965; Corvallis, Oregon. 9:23 p.m. Witness: W.V. Harrison. Three lights rose from the ground, several seconds apart. The next day, an oily spot was found at the site. March 8, 1965; Mt. Airy, Maryland. 7:40 p.m. Witness: J.H. Martin, instrument maker for U.S. Bureau of Standards. Six lights flew overhead slowly for 3 minutes. April 4, 1965; Keesler AFB, Mississippi. 4:05 a.m. Witnesses: USAF A/2c Corum, a weather observer; confirmation by college student R. Pittman not clear from available data. One 40' black, oval object with four lights along the bottom, flew in and out of the clouds for 15 seconds. May 7, 1965; Oxford, Michigan. 7:30 p.m. Witness: M.E. Marshall. One light, like a satellite, split into two parts, one of which was copperish color, then two more joined up. One object may have been tumbling. Sighting lasted 1 minute. July 6, 1965; Kiel, Wisconsin. 9:30 p.m. Witness: Mrs. E.R. Hayner. One flashing light, like a satellite, was seen for less than 1 minute. No further data was in the files. July 25, 1965; Castalia, Ohio. 9:15 p.m. Witness: amateur astronomer M.D. Harris, 16. One bright blue star crossed 90 of sky in 10-15 seconds. Aug. 4, 1965; Dallas, Texas. 9:30 p.m. Witness: J.A. Carter, 19. One light flew fast, straight and level for 12 seconds. No further data in files. Aug. 4, 1965; Tinley Park, Illinois. 11:35 p.m. Witnesses: two unnamed 14 year olds. One light moved around the sky for 16-17 seconds. No further data in files. Aug. 19, 1965; Cherry Creek New York. 8:20 p.m. Witnesses: Mrs. William Butcher, son Harold, 17, and children. A large elliptical object, with a reddish vapor underneath, came close to the ground, then shot straight up into the clouds a few seconds later. Radio drowned out by static, a tractor engine stopped. When the object was on the ground, a steady beeping sound could be heard. Afterwards, a strange odor was noticed, and the next day, a purplish liquid, 2"x2" marks and patches of singed grass were found at the site. A bull bellowed and tried to break its bonds. Aug. 30, 1965; Urbana, Ohio. 10:30 p.m. Witnesses: M.A. Lilly, N. Smith, T. Nastoff. One white ball, 5-8' in diameter and trailed by a 2-3' light, hit the road 100' in front of the witness' car, bounced and flew away. Sighting lasted 3-4 seconds. Sept. 3, 1965; Exeter, New Hampshire. 2 a.m. Witnesses: Exeter Patrolmen Eugene Bertrand, Jr. and David Hunt, and Norman Muscarello. One large, dark, elliptical object with a row of red lights around it, moved slowly and erratically around houses and trees, while lights blinked in sequence. Farm animals were very noisy. Sighting lasted about 1 hour. Sept. 3, 1965; Damon, Texas. 11 p.m. Witnesses: Brazoria County Chief Sheriff's Deputy Billy McCoy and Deputy Robert Goode. One triangular object, 150-200' long, 40-50' thick at middle and dark grey, with a long, bright, pulsing, purple light on the right side and a long blue light on the left side. Came from distance to 150' off highway and 100' in the air. Purple light illuminated ground beneath object and interior of police car. Driver felt heat on his left arm. Initial sighting lasted 5-10 minutes. Second sighting.occurred later that night. Sept. 25, 1965; Chisholm, Minnesota. 9:55 a.m. Witness: Bett Diamon. Five orange lights in a row flew fast and made an abrupt turn during the 1 minute sighting. Sept. 25, 1965; Rodeo, New Mexico. 10 p.m. Witnesses: Dr. George Walton, physical chemist, and wife. Two round white objects flew side-by-side, at 30-50' altitude, pacing the witnesses' car for 6 minutes. Oct. 4, Middletown, Ohio. Wiitness: Tucker. Case missing from official files. Feb. 2, 1966; Salisbury, North Carolina. 11:15 p.m. Witnesses: Mr. and Mrs. L.J. Wise. One silver, diamond-shaped object with several balls constantly in very fast motion around it, and much light. Object hovered over the trees for 3-4 minutes, while a dog barked, and then zipped out of sight. Sighting lasted 1 hour. Feb. 6, 1966; Nederland, Texas. 5:45 a.m. Witnesses: Mr. and Mrs. K.R. Gulley. One yellow, lighted object at 500; altitude and a pulsating red glow on the lawn. The house lights went out, and high frequency bothered the witnesses' ears. Sighting lasted 5-10 minutes. March 20, 1966; Miami, Florida.. 12:15 a.m. Witness: USAF Res. Maj. K.C. Smith, employee of NASA at Cape Kennedy. One pulsating light which varied from white to intense blue made a jerky ascent and then rapidly accelerated away to the north after 5 minutes. March 22, 1966; Houston, Texas. 1:30 a.m. Witness: S.J. Musachia. White flashing lights, and the air full of smoke. Lit up witness' apartment. Sound of "yen " heard up close during 4 minute sighting. March 23, 1966; Temple, Oklahoma. 5:05 a.m. Witness: W.E. Laxson. One large object, like a wingless C-124 transport plane; 75' long, 8' high and 12' wide; with a bubble canopy on top. Sat on highway, a man dressed in military work clothes entered, and it rose after about 40 seconds. March 26, 1966; Texhoma, Oklahoma. Midnight. Witnesses: Mrs. P.N. Beer and Mrs. E. Smith. One flashing light buzzed their car from the front then hovered. Sighting lasted l0 minutes. April 5, 1966; Alto, Tennessee. 11:55 p.m. Witness: W. Smith. One oval object with a dark top, appeared cone-shaped when moving. It made a high-frequency noise during the 2.5 hour sighting. April 5, 1966; Lycoming, New York. 3 a.m. Witness: Lillian Louis. One vapor-like sphere hovered and spun at low altitude, shooting its exhaust onto the ground below. Sighting of 1 minute. April 30, 1966; Sacramento, California. 3:15 a.m. Witness: Anita Miller. One light moved around the sky for 2.5 hours. No further detail in files. May 7, 1966; Goodfellow AFB, Texas. 9:55 p.m. Witness: A/3c W.L. Whitehead. One short, cylindrical object with pointed ends and a yellow light at one end and blue light at the other, flew straight and level for 35 seconds. June 6, 1966; Spooner, Wisconsin. 9:30 p.m. Witness: Dorothy Gray. Two domed discs with sparkling upper surfaces and square windows in their tops, revolved above a lake, apparently causing strange behavior of the lake water during the 25 second sighting. June 8, 1966; Kansas, Ohio. 6:45 a.m. Witness: Max Baker. One bright silver, cigar-shaped object, as long as an airliner, buzzed the witness' car. Sighting lasted 1 minute. June 18, 1966; Burnsville, North Carolina. 12:30 a.m. Witnesses: members of a Boy Scout group, including Sterrett. One bell-shaped object with three flashing red lights hovered for 5 hours and was then joined by six others. June 27, 1966; 400 miles east of Wake Island (19* N., 172* E.). 4 a.m. Witness: Radio Officer Steffen Soresen, of the S/ Mt. Vernon Victory. One "cloud" expanded with a light inside, and then accelerated away after several minutes. July l1, 1966; Union, Pennsylvania. 7:45 p.m. Witnesses: Carl Wood and Charles Hawthorne. One large (100' wide, 20' high) bright red object with small windows and yellow lights. The object emitted a humming noise, seemingly from the outside, and a qrinding noise which seemed to come from inside. Observed for 1 hour. July 25, 1966; Vanceboro, North Carolina. 1 a.m. Witness: college student James Clark. One object which changed color from orange to red to blue to green and back to orange. Followed witness' car at high speed, then stopped and hovered over the car. Rose and flew up and out of sight in less than 5 seconds. Entire sighting involved about 1 hour. July 31, 1966; Presque Isle State Park, Pennsylvania. 7:25 p.m. Witnesses: Douglas Tibbetts, 16; Betty Klem, 16; Anita Haifley, 22; and Gerald Labelle, 29. Square or hexagonal object with edges lit or reflecting light, came tumbling down from right to left. Stopped 5-10' above the beach and settled heavily down; circle of spotlights at top were visible when it was on the ground. Sighting lasted 5 minutes. . Aug. 19, 1966; Donnybrook, North Dakota. 4:50 p.m. Witness: U.S. Border Patrolman Don Flickenger. Round disc with domed top, 30' in diameter and 15' high, colored white, silvery or aluminum. Moved across a valley from the southeast, hovered over a reservoir, appeared to land in a small field, then rose up into clouds very rapidly. Sighting lasted 5 minutes. Aug. 23, 1966; Columbus, Ohio. 77 p.m. Witnesses: Broomall and Gilpin. One circular, luminous white object split into five objects and all streaked away toward the west. Sighting lasted 15 minutes. Aug. 26, 1966; Gaylesville, Alabama. 8:50 p.m. Witnesses: Mr. and Mrs. Funk and their three children. A cluster of four small, glowing, orange-yellow lights in a triangular formation, moved from east to west for 4.5 minutes. Sept. 1, 1966; Willsboro, New York. 2:45 p.m. Witness: T.H. Ridman. One oval object with lights that flashed red and white and occasionally blue, travelled west, then disappeared downward. It returned, several minutes later, at which time a loud noise was heard. The entire sighting lasted 30 minutes. Sept. 6, 1966; Suffolk County AFB, New York. 6:50 p.m. Witnesses: Stahl and Ladesic. One white cylinder of light came from the east at high speed, stopped and hovered for 3 minutes, and then turned and slowly disappeared. Sighting lasted 8 minutes. Sept. 9, 1966; Franklin Springs, New York. 9 p.m. Witness: Jacobson. One solid object, larger than an army tank, with lights all around it, made a low humming sound and disappeared into woods at the end of the 30 minute sighting. Sept. 13, 1966; Gwinner, North Dakota. 7:30 a.m. Witness: Rotenberger. One silvery-grey ellipse with a clear bubble protruding from its top, hovered about a mile away, then landed within 300 yards and took off very fast. It made a low-pitched whine during the 5 minute sighting. Sept. 28, 1966; Wilmington, Ohio. 3:38 p.m. Witness: Clarke. Three round, oval-shaped, aluminum-colored objects with rotating rings around them. Two remained stationary, while the third varied its altitude during the 90 second sighting. Oct. 5, 1966; Osceola, Wisconsin. Witnesses: several members of one family. One small, bright orange, moon-shaped object remained stationary in the northeast for about 20 minutes, then suddenly took off very fast to the WNW. Oct. 23, 1966; Southhampton, Long Island, New York. 6 p.m. Witness: Mr Acquino. One object with arms in front of it which sparkled like an arc-light. Traveled south along some power lines, then turned southwest. Made a slight humming sound during the 4 minute sighting. Oct. 26, 1966; Cold Bay Air Force Station, Alaska. No time given. Witness: civilian control tower operator Ralston. One white object approached runway at 50' altitude. Runway lights were then turned on, and object accelerated and climbed away so fast that witness was unable to use binoculars. Sighting lasted 3 seconds. Nov. 8, 1966; Saginaw, Michigan. At night. Witness: college graduate Annis. A group of lights that flashed and changed color hung stationary, almost touching the road, and would abruptly vanish during the 5 minute sighting. Dec. 25, 1966; Monroe, Oregon. 33 a.m. Witnesses: civilians and military persons. Three round objects, as large as cars, gave off vapor, then became three bright reddish-orange lights. Blast at beginning of 90 minute sighting pushed one witness against a car. Feb. 6, 1967; Odessa, Delaware. 8:45 p.m. Witnesses: Donald and Marie Guseman. One large, Saturn-shaped object--5O' in diameter and 20' high--with two bright lights, a green light on one side and a red light on the other. Hovered motionless over the trees, then slowly moved north and suddenly disappeared after 2 minutes. Feb. 12, 1967; Grand Rapids, Michigan. 3:40 a.m. Witness: Mr. Lou Atkinson. Four fluorescent, football-shaped objects, a dull, almost grey luminous color; flew northeast in a very rigid formation for 4-10 seconds. Made a chirping noise. Feb. 16, 1967; Stoughton, Wisconsin. 9:11 p.m. Witness: Miss Lynn Marsh. One light with faded edges seemed to follow observer in her car for 5-6 minutes. Feb. 20, 1967; Oxford, Wisconsin. 3:10 a.m. Witness: USAF veteran/truck driver Stanton Summer. One orange-red object flew parallel to truck for 2 minutes. Feb. 27, 1967; Grand Haven, Michigan. 8:19 p.m. Witnesses: Sheriff Grysen, wife and others. Large white light, with smaller red and green lights seen to the sides. Made almost instantaneous 90^ turn to left, shot out over road and stopped, moving too fast to follow. Sighting lasted 1 hour, 11 minutes. March 6, 1967; Benton Harbor, Michigan. 12:01 a.m. Witnesses: Jerome Wolanin, assistant news director of radio station and former policeman, and wife. One round saucer or oval-shaped object with red, green and yellow lights around bottom rim which pulsated red. Flew level, east to west, and was joined by second object from west. First object opened top, second came over and hovered for 30 seconds and disappeared. Sighting lasted more than 40 minutes. Objects made hissing sound. March 6, 1967; Galesburg-Moline, Illinois. 4:25 a.m. Witness: Deputy Sheriff Frank Courson. One object shaped like a rubber cup which is placed under furniture leg, with a dome set in the cup. Bottom of object spun rapidly, rim pulsated red. Approached witness and passed overhead at low altitude, making a hieeing sound. March 9, 1967; Galesburg, Illinois. 7:10 p.m. Witnesses: two housewives. One object shaped like a pancake with a rounded top; object was pulsating red, with red lights around its rim. Approached witnesses and seemed to explode with a brilliant white light that lasted 10 seconds and almost blinded them. Then it accelerated to the north and disappeared. March 9, 1967; Onawa, Iowa. 9:05 p.m. Witness: Jack Lindley. One bright white, saucer-shaped object, as big as a jet airliner, flew straight and fast to the east for 2 minutes. March 22, 1967; Wapello, Iowa. 10:20 p.m. Witness: Douglas Eutsler, 15. Fluorescent, solid, multicolored lights stood still, then flew away at high speed after 1 minute. March 24, 1967; Belt, Montana. 99 p.m. Witness: truck driver Ken Williams. One dome-shaped object, emitting a bright light, landed in a ravine. As the witness approached, it took off and settled back, hidden from the highway. Sighting lasted several minutes. March 26, 1967; New Winchester, Ohio. 4 p.m. Witnesses: man, woman, three boys. One oval object, which looked like copper or brass with the sun shining on it, flew from southeast to northwest with tumbling motion for 30 minutes. May 17, 1967; Rural Hall, North Carolina. 8:30 p.m. Witness: Red Ledford. One round, orange-colored object, similar in size to a small aircraft, zigzagged back and forth over a jet that was heading northeast for 5 minutes. June 24, 1967; Austin, Texas. 3:12 a.m. Witness: artist Ray Stanford. One solid, blue-white, elliptical object flew from northwest to northeast and stopped, seemingly in response to flashlight signal, for 1.5 minutes. The object then proceeded along its original path at high speed and disappeared behind clouds. Sighting lasted 9 minutes. June 29' 1967; Scotch Plains, New Jersey. 1:30 a.m. Witness: truck driver Damon Brown. One oyster-shaped object--2OO' wide, and 25-30' thick--with a huge red light at each end and one on the bottom, and a row of blue lights along the bottom. Circled m.n aircraft, hovering then moving rapidly, and then followed the witness' car for about 500', veered south and departed at great speed after 8-10 minutes. July 10, 1967; Lizelia, Mississippi. 5:50 p.m. Witness: golf pro Harold Washington (Capt, USMC, ret.). One object with a dome, the top colored gunmetal blue, the bottom the color of old lead. Moved east, crossed the highway tilted upward, moved to the right, accelerated and disappeared into the clouds after 3-5 seconds. Object made a swishing sound. Oct. 18, 1967; Lake Charles, Louisiana. 9 p.m. Witness: John Herbert. One bright, fiery ball flashed four times while moving east, just above the tree tops. Sighting lasted 1 minute. Feb. 9, 1968; Groveton, Missouri. 4:20 a.m. Witness: Mr. R.W. Bland. One object, 100' in diameter, with concave sides having "portholes" in the center of each gave off yellow-green light. Hovered 25' above ground, then moved rapidly toward the southwest. Gave off pulsating sound, like a length of wire whirled at high speed above the head. Sighting lasted 1-5 minutes. Sept. 15, 1968; near Ocala, Florida. 9:30 p.m. Witness: missionary pilot Jay Cole, flying a Beech C-45 twin-engined utility plane. One light performed aerobatics for 15 minutes and then vanished. A second light appeared, heading toward them on a collision course, made a 90* turn and disappeared. Later, ground radar told them a target was following them. Sightings lasted 15 minutes. Nov. 23, 1968. Newton, Georgia. 8:05 p.m. Witness: Mr. Jones, accountant. One oblong light, 120-150' wide. Hovering 75' above the ground, it emitted a beam that lit the ground. Radio gave off static, then car engine stopped. Light flew away vertically and car engine restarted itself. Sighting lasted 3-4 minutes. Jan. 17, 1969; Crittenden, Virginia. 3:24 a.m. Witness: Mr. Roman Lupton, test facility mechanic. Several amber lights--one of them blinking--in an elliptical formation, flew forward slowly while moving up and down, then turned and disappeared after 2 minutes. Made a humming sound. -----END OF ARTICLE -------------------------------------------------- -- -* Don Allen *- InterNet: dona@bilver.UUCP // Amiga..for the best of us. USnail: 1818G Landing Dr, Sanford Fl 32771 \X/ Why use anything else? :-) UUCP: ..uunet!tarpit!bilver!vicstoy!dona 0110 0110 0110 Just say NO! Illuminati < MJ-12|Greys|TLC|CFR|FED|Bilderbergs > UN = "New World Order" Article: 6317 of alt.conspiracy Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!crdgw1!ge-dab!tarpit!bilver!dona From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy Subject: CONTACT: Oscar Jordan case Part 1 Keywords: UFO contact Message-ID: <1991Jul4.022613.15965@bilver.uucp> Date: 4 Jul 91 02:26:13 GMT Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL Lines: 152 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:1092 alt.conspiracy:6317 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This information is presented for your persusal and is a continuation of my policy of informing the public what is currently available. The content of this information does NOT necessarily reflect the personal views of the poster,nor should the views,opinions,statements or claims represented in the following be accepted by anyone reading these texts at *face* value. If this interests you, please endeavor to research it yourself and investigate it to *your* satisfaction, and as such I will leave it in your hands to either prove it or de-bunk it :-) As I do not have a great amount of time available to pursue follow-ups exclusively, comments to me should be directed to dona@bilver.uucp in mail. --------------------------------------------------------------------- The following file(s) are a UFO case that MUFON investigator Mike Christol has worked on. ------Oscar Jordon Story Part 1 ----------------------------------- INTRODUCTION In April, 1973, a station wagon containing six people was en- route to Evansville, Ind. They were approaching the small town of Daylight, on Hwy 57, about five miles North of Evansville. The moon was rising slowly above the horizon and the six people were engaged in conversation. They were returning from Oakland City and Eberfield, Ind., where they had spent the day selling for the Kirby Vacuum Cleaner Company. As the brown station wagon rolled effortlessly along the highway the driver suddenly noticed a pulsating light traveling in their direction. The object was just above the moon as it approached their location. The chatter and intensity increased as the object drew nearer and nearer to the car. "Do you see that? What is that? What are we looking at? Oh God! I don't believe what I'm looking at!" These are just some of the comments made as the six men and women strained to get a better view of this large object approaching their car at no more than one hundred feet above the ground. Oscar Jordan turned to the lady on his right, and said: "Did you see that? Did you see that?" As she responded to him she began to hold her stomach and lean over in the seat beside him. "I'm sick at my stomach," she replied as Oscar rolled down the window on the driver's side of the car in the back seat. "I really want to see what this thing looks like," said Oscar as he pulled himself up into the window to get a better view of this tremendous, glowing, object moving slowly to a position directly above the now parked station wagon. Oscar seated himself in the car and noticed that everyone else had passed out. He also began to feel a strange sensation and the "lights just went completely out"... This is the climax to a bizarre series of events which began in October, 1972 in rural Tennessee and culminated in early April, 1973 at Daylight, Indiana, in what will come to be known as the ULTIMATE INCIDENT, AT DAYLIGHT. The six people in this case have since gone in different directions, and as of this writing have not been located, with the exception of Oscar Jordan. BIOGRAPHICAL SKETCH On July 29, 1980 Oscar Jordan, married his second wife, Freda Ditch and lived at 1150 South Dexter Ave. in Evansville, Ind. He retired from sales and in 1981, purchased an R.V. with which he and Freda traveled extensively for the next five years. Their travels took them from Florida to Canada, to Alaska. In 1986 they returned to Evansville and finally settled at their present location in November, 1988. Oscar was born in Henderson, Kentucky, during the Prohibition era, on March 28, 1924. He left Henderson in 1938 and moved to Memphis, Tennessee. There for only a year, he returned to Evansville in 1939 and joined the CIVILIAN CONSERVATION CORP, or the C.C.C and worked in Idaho for a year. He returned to Henderson in 1940 and enlisted in the army in December, 1941. After thirty four months of service he was discharged on October 27, 1944 and moved to Detroit Michigan. While living in Detroit, Oscar worked for the Chris Craft Corp. in Algonac, Michigan and in 1946 returned to Evansville, where he worked for about six months painting houses. Finally, in 1946, Oscar was employed by the P.A. Garr Co. which made and sold Electro Hygene Sweepers. In 1953 Oscar took a position in sales with the Kirby Vacuum Company and worked until his retirement in 1962. After retirement, Oscar moved to Sarasota, Florida and lived for eight years, until moving to a rural area near Humbolt, Tennessee, in 1970. It was at this time, that Oscar began to become aware of the UFO phenomena. In October, of 1972, Oscar and nine other people witnessed a large sphere move in straight lines and hover near his home. On one occasion one of the witnesses was an Air Force officer. In October of 1973, seven months after the Daylight incident, Oscar moved to Waverly, Kentucky and remained there until moving to Evansville in 1980. The years between 1972 and 1984 have been filled with many unusual and in some cases frightening experiences for Oscar Jordan. His is but one of the growing number of cases in which average people from all walks of life continue to report sighting UFO's and having missing time, only to find out later by various methods that they may have become what is now referred to as an "ABDUCTEE!" Now for the story as Oscar lived it. In his own words, as related to me. I now relate this amazing story to you. Welcome to the ULTIMATE INCIDENT, AT DAYLIGHT! INVESTIGATORS NOTE Those who read this investigative report of the UFO experiences of Oscar Jordan will notice that throughout the dialogue, Oscar refers to the incident which occurred at Daylight, Indiana, to have occurred in April 1974. Upon review of his biographical history, from birth to the time of this interview, we discovered that the event actually occurred one year earlier, during the great 1973 UFO flap. Please keep this in mind when reading this report. Michael Christol Investigator --------Cont in Oscar Jordon Part 2 -------------------------- -- -* Don Allen *- InterNet: dona@bilver.UUCP // Amiga..for the best of us. USnail: 1818G Landing Dr, Sanford Fl 32771 \X/ Why use anything else? :-) UUCP: ..uunet!tarpit!bilver!vicstoy!dona 0110 0110 0110 Just say NO! Illuminati < MJ-12|Greys|TLC|CFR|FED|Bilderbergs > UN = "New World Order" Article: 6318 of alt.conspiracy Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!crdgw1!ge-dab!tarpit!bilver!dona From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy Subject: CONTACT: Oscar Jordan case Part 2 Keywords: UFO contact Message-ID: <1991Jul4.022836.16024@bilver.uucp> Date: 4 Jul 91 02:28:36 GMT Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL Lines: 966 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:1093 alt.conspiracy:6318 ---------Oscar Jordon Part 2 -------------------------------------- THE OSCAR JORDAN CASE On January 28, l989, my wife Judy and I, Michael W. Christol, conducted the following interview at the home of Oscar and Freda Jordan. I became aware of this case after seeing Mr. Jordan on a T.V. News program, on Channel 25, WEHT, Evansville Indiana. [ Don's Note: Mike had put Oscar's address and tel# here, but I've deleted it both as a courtesy to Oscar and Mike ]. Michael Christol: "Mr. Jordan, would you tell me about your experiences with UFO's, from the first sighting to the latest?" Oscar Jordan: "The first time that I saw a strange light in the sky took place in 1972. It was about between 7:30 and a quarter to 8:00 in the afternoon, in the fall of the year. In fact it was in the first part of October, and there was a lady who worked for the power and light company over at Alamo, Tennessee, who had seen a strange craft in the sky which she described as a football with a light just under the bottom part of this football thing that she had seen. And of course at that time I thought that anybody who said that they saw something in the sky was a...ah...absolutely a nut. In fact that night we were looking at Startrek, and I said to one of them that was sitting there with me, I said: `I think I had better get up and see if I can see what all of these nuts are looking at, or at least claim that they're looking at in the sky.' So, I got up and went to the recreation room at the back part of the house and I was looking out the window, and I was really looking toward the South, toward Jackson, Tennessee. And all at once I see this pulsating light above the tree. It was infrared in color and I looked at it and this light was whirling around in the bottom of this thing and I didn't actually see any kind of a craft or anything like that. It was just a pulsating light. So as I was looking at this light, it went right...followed the line of trees all the way down toward... going in toward Jackson, Tennessee, which was about 9 miles from... ah...into Jackson. And I watched this light go around in a circle from South to East. In fact it was moving at such a tremendous speed that it was just really phenomenal to look at. So when this light stopped, it didn't stop as, as in any manner that I was accustomed to looking at, it just came to a...it just came to a stop, and it stopped! And it wobbled. I noticed it wobbled a little bit up there, and I thought: `Well that thing is actually wobbling like it's going around and around.' And all at once it leveled off like that (makes hand gestures to describe the objects motion), settled above the trees to the East of us, and there was 9 people looking at this thing. And the light was so bright that you could have actually read a newspaper out there. And while I was looking at this light, I spoke out and said: `You know if they wanted to, they...they could destroy everything that there is around here.' And it was at that time that I heard this little buzzing sound in my ear. And I heard a voice say to me: `You have nothing to fear.' So, and that time I had a warm glow pass throughout the whole of my body, which was...I really felt comfortable and at ease. I didn't feel like I had anything to fear. But anyway, while we were looking at this craft, or whatever this was in the sky that we were looking at that time, I ask somebody, I said: `Did you all hear anything?' And they said: `No, we didn't hear anything.' And I thought: `Well that's strange.' I wasn't really...I just felt strange all over. So any-way, I kept looking into the light of this thing and I said to them, I said: `They are getting ready to go. They are getting ready to move.' And the light in the bottom of this thing began to oscillate (makes a circular motion with hand). I could tell that it was picking up in oscillating. And it moved from the East to the West. And I had a pair of binoculars that I was looking at this craft through. And as it went over I could see that it was metallic in nature and it was far different from the craft that I later saw in, in 19 and 74. But after I had this experience with this craft, I use to look out the windows of the back windows at night, around between 7:30 and 8:30 in the night. And I use to watch these infrared spheres come along and approach a line of trees. When they got to the line of of trees they would stop, go above the tree, and come down on the other side of the tree (makes motion to match description with hand). And I would say that these infrared spheres were not but about maybe 5 or 6 feet off the ground. And I thought: `Well I'm going to go and really get a closer look at these infrared spheres.' I was really warned not to go near them, because had I gone near them, I was told that...that would...I would li...be literally absorbed by this. That it was really dangerous for me to do that. So I...I...I did not go near this infrared light that was traveling over the surface of the ground, down there. And I've seen it night after night, this round ball (gestures with hands to make a ball)...infrared ball. And one night I had the occasion to watch this ball come out of the East. And it came to a certain tree and it hovered above this certain tree. And while it was above this tree, it emitted sparks of electricity down on this tree. And I thought: `Boy, if that ain't something.' And I never did have my little box camera where I could get a picture of the thing. In fact, I wasn't prepared to do so. And, so that went on for about..Oh, I'd say up until about December, about the 25th day of December." "The 25th day of December I've always had the occasion to go out and look and to see if I could see them. And it seems like to me that they were always there. And I got to the point where I was able to look at that whirling light in the bottom of it, and I got to the point where I could tell when they were going to turn, and I knew what their next move was going to be. And I thought: `How strange it is to be setting here and looking at this and knowing exactly what they were going to do next up in the...up in the stratosphere.' So I made a statement that night when I was looking into this light that I'd give anything if I could really see what they really were and know more about the craft." "I...ah...after that period of time we moved away from Tennessee, and I decided that I was wanting to get back into some selling again, so I came to Evansville. I still lived in Tennessee at that...and I came to Evansville and was working out of an office down here in Evansville (Oscar worked for Kirby Vacuum Cleaner sales). I and six other people had made a trip up to Oakland City, Indiana, and we were on our way back from Oakland City and I came out of this little town of Oakland City and went down to Eberfield, Indiana. And we had worked there for maybe about an hour, and we decided that we were going on into Evansville. As we were coming 57 (Hwy) the driver of the station wagon noticed this pulsating light off...coming from the South-East toward us. And I said: `Do you see that bright light up there?' I said: `It's pulsating and coming in our direction.' I said: `I believe it's one of them.' And it came right straight toward the car and stopped about 300 feet away from us and about 100 feet up in the sky. It was at that time that I said: `Well, I really want to see what this thing looks like and I'm going to roll the window down and pull myself out so I can really get a look at it.' I said to this lady that was sitting next to me in the car. I said: `Did you see that? Did you see that?' And she said: `I'm sick at my stomach.' And as I rolled the window down, I pulled myself up out of the...the...over...put my hand on the top part of the car and pulled myself out to really get a real look at this thing. And I thought: `Oh my God, I don't believe what I'm looking at here!' The bottom of this craft had a transparent cover over a recessed light that set in a...in a cone shaped thing in the front with a...coming to a triangle in the back. And then on this outer edge of this craft, I could tell that this part actually was co...connected with this craft in the bottom. But from that point back, the bottom of this thing pulsated an electrum heat that covered the whole circumference of this craft on the outside. It seemed to be enveloped in a...what I would call an electrum light around the whole outside of it. It was about 60 feet across in diameter. It made no sound. The only thing that I noticed about it was that it had this window in the front. And that wind...that part of it was, was just as light...ah...white on the inside, I thought. I sit back down in the car because I felt this heat on my arm and it was getting to the point where I couldn't stand it any more. So I sit back down in my seat and I looked over at this lady that was sitting there and by that time I realized that this lady was literally...her head had dropped to the side. And I looked around in the car and I thought: `Well I'm the only one in this car that's really conscious about what the heck's going on here.' So I thought: `Well I'm going to take another look at it.' So I, this time when I pulled myself back and looked out the window, the craft was sitting right over the top of the car. And I...seems like to me the lights just went completely out, and that's the last thing I remember. I do realize that when the time I came back around again, I was looking at this thing in the sky, and it...it had gone up about...it had moved and the movement of it was so fast that I couldn't detect the movement of it. But it went right straight up about 1000 feet and just got small in the sky. And I kept looking at this and I thought: `Oh my God, I don't believe this, I really don't believe it.' And my attention was drawn by another bright light in the sky, off to the South of me. I noticed that the moon was not in the same place it was I thought a second ago. I thought: `Well surely the moon didn't move too!' And as I was looking at this other thing in the sky, it...ah...it was so unreal that I couldn't even hardly believe what I was looking at there. Because it had the same electrum around the outside of that...it was so bright...bright a glow, and it had an infrared thing in the center of...of that too. I now realized that what I was now looking at was not really a craft, but I...I honestly believe it was a hologram that I was looking at adjacent to this craft that was sitting above me. We...ah... finally people were back to normal in the car. I was looking out at this and I kept seeing this light revolve in the bottom of it. It kept getting brighter and brighter and brighter on the horizon, and as it went away, it suddenly...ah...the brightness suddenly became a dot on the horizon going straight North. It moved so fast it was there one second and the next second it was just gone. And that's how it happened." "Now there are other events about this that happened within a six months period of time. I was laying down one night and all at once I kept seeing lights flashing off and on and going off and on and I remember that I was looking at a...a panel on a wall. And things were going through my mind so fast that I...that I...it absolutely gave me a headache. And then after that they use to tell me where they were going to be in the sky. How...what they were going to be doing and things like that. And I knew later on when they told me they were going to be in one part of the sky, they were really there. And I pointed this out to a lot of people at that time. In fact the Mayor in this one little town...I never will forget it. The Kentucky State Basketball game was going on and I was a little reluctant to go down to his house and get him because I felt I would be taking him away from his national past time. But anyway, I...I did go down and get him and I brought him up there and I said: `I want you to take a look at this, because if you don't see it you won't believe it.' And there was a whole series of lights flashing in the sky. There was a triangle set of lights that went across like this, up like this and came back down (Oscar draws a triangle in the air, which represented the shape of the light pattern, with his finger). When that sequence of lights would go off, there was another sequence of lights that came on like this and went across like this diagonal shape, and then there was a round circle of lights out here on this end of it. And this...these lights all came on in sequence and went off in sequence. And I set up my telescope...ah...spotting scope and I let this fellow who was the mayor of this town look through this spotting scope. And you could actually see windows that this light was emanating from. And I would venture to say that these lights that we were looking at was really on the fringe of space...that we were looking at...and this, you could see the metallic color and the glow around this...up there. And he said: `What in the world are we looking at?' And I said: `Well, that's a good question.' But while we were looking at this diagonal shaped one, you could see lights going out and lights coming back into this thing. There were craft flying...going out of this and coming back in...into this one. The...ah...later on in... ah...a few months later there was a storm going on and I happened to be looking out toward the East, from where I was. And there was a round shaped object in the sky where the same light oscillated around and around up there. And many times after that I saw many lights flashing off and on in the sky. And one night I remember an old colored fellow, by the name of Chambers, that I had talked to and pointed out to. So one night, I...this circular one was coming ...coming alone, and I called this colored fellow up and I said: `Chambers, I want you to take a look out...out and tell me if you see the same thing that I see.' So he goes and he looks out his window and he walks out in his yard...comes back in the house and he says: `There's a circle of lights up there going around and around.' And I said: `Yea.' And I said: `It's not moving, not moving hardly at all, it's just hung up there in the sky.' So Chambers had the occasion to go up to a certain Bar-B-Q place (Peke's, in Waverly, Ky.) down in this little-o-bitty town that I lived in. And he pointed this same thing out to a lot of people that was there, and one of them said: `Well, what is it?' And of course Chambers knew that they were probably going to make fun of him for pointing it out to them, and he said: `Maybe it's a television set up there blinking off and on and going around.' But anyway, he had his mirror on his truck and he turned his mirror up on his truck until he got this object in the mirror, and they could all look in the mirror and see these lights going around and around on this craft. This craft made its appearance there periodically, and the night that I saw this large display of lights in the sky, I was told in 1977 that they would not make themselves visible like they had before, and not as often. And I've since seen lights in pairs in triangle shape in pairs of three in the sky. I haven't had a close encounter with any object like I did in 1974. I did in 1977 make a replica of the craft that I saw in the sky, because I felt like people really should know what this thing looks like. They have many different kinds of craft. Different makes and model of craft in the sky, they are not all the same. And when people see these craft, it depends on from what angle they are really looking at this craft. They are really describing what they see, but they are looking...from whatever angle they are looking at this craft it makes different kinds of shape in the background. So people are actually seeing what they see. But they...ah...if you...if they see it up close it's one of the strangest phenomenons I've ever seen in my life. We feel like we're the only pe...only thing in this Universe, and I know that's absolutely not true today. There are other entities in the world that we don't comprehend, and don't understand. And when I had my first encounter in 1972, I became so UFO minded, that I really wanted to search and read about every piece of UFO literature I could and try to understand what was going on. I read many things about what's happened to many different people throughout the United States and around about the whole world. We laugh at these individuals and we make fun, but this is not a laughing matter. There is things happening in the world that we don't comprehend or understand. Wherever they are from, I don't know. I don't think anybody else does. But none the less, they do exist. We...ah...we need to really try to understand more about this. I don't believe it's in the realm of man to understand this until they really get ready for you...really know what their purpose is here on this earth, or what they are actually doing here, because they far surpass us in technology. Anyone who can travel as fast as they can travel makes anything that we have look like in the primer stage. And that's...I still look forward to one day having another close encounter. I don't think I would be near as shook up about it if I did, as I was the first time. And there are many strange things that happened at that particular time that I would like to know more about. I don't know whether I'll ever find out what happened to us 6 people in that car that night. I do know that I felt like I was in a cloud, and I do remember looking at this tree and not looking at it from the same angle that I had looked at it previously. I felt like we were being lifted up and I was in a cloud. And after that I had my...as far as my mind and thoughts were, it became a blank. And that's my story." Mike Christol: "O.K. Would you reiterate once more about your trip down the Pennyrile and...and the things that happened. The events plus the gentleman that came to your house and set on your porch. (Oscar told Judy and me this story before we set up the video camera and I'm asking him to repeat it again.) Oscar: (Chuckles) "Yea. This took place Friday after our...our sighting of this bright light in the sky. About, I'd say, about two days later after that. I had someone knock on the door and come in and sit down and he posed as a book salesman. And I ask him what the book was all about and he said it was about dealing with the Bible, and he was sure I was interested in the Bible and he wanted to leave that book with me. I didn't, needless to say, buy the book. I did have quite a chat with this young...whoever he was, and supposedly he was from somewhere up in Bloomington, Indiana. This very strange...ah...this person was so thin that I...he was...I really thought he looked sick, he was so thin. He had dark skin, very gaunt features, and...I ke...the more I kept looking at this person sitting there I felt like it really wasn't any time to lie. Because, when he looked at me, he looked like he was looking right straight through me. And I had a feeling that...that he was reading my mind and my thoughts while I was sitting there. I've never had a feeling like that come over me in my life and I've never seen anything or anyone that gave me that feeling. This, this strange part about the whole thing is that when this fellow left the house and walked to the outside, there was a sulfur smell in the air. I don't know where he went to...he just...he just went! And this dark, rustic, I wouldn't say rustic, but faded out car that was setting up there where th...where this road was, it was gone too. I never did see him go back to the car. I don't even know where that car went. It just fttt...(makes a disappearing motion with his hands) it was...it was gone. Now that may sound kind of hairy to people, but that's actually what happened. And I've had Orientals come to the house that I thought was Orientals, and they were not... they weren't Orientals. There was...there was something strange about them too. And when I...I found myself wanting to take trips, to go to Evansville. I had no reason to go to Evansville, but I found myself going in that direction. And I was coming down the... the Purchase (Parkway in South-western Kentucky, intersecting Hwy. 51 out of Tennessee near Fulton, Kentucky.) highway out of Martinsville, Tennessee (He means Martin, Tenn.), and I remember coming onto the highway there in Martinsville, Tennessee and I was riding down the road and all at once here's this black car and there was two men setting in the front seat dressed in black. And their face and their skin was as white as it could be. And they both looked identical, that's the thing that really got me more than anything else. That they...there was...they looked so identical they wasn't even funny. And I kept looking at them and I thought: `Well that's strange, two people look identical, the same, in this car.' I didn't use no gas going down that road. That was something else strange too. Seems like I was being pushed along down that road. And time didn't seem to matter much either. And I kept thinking: `Well dad-gone, I wonder why they are following me down the road?' So I decided that I was just going to slow my car down an...and give them a chance to get around me. Well, I let up on the pedal and they did come along side of me and I looked right out across from them. Right across at them, and I thought: `Boy if you ain't a couple of strange dudes.' And I...and it really gave me a creepy feeling. And finally they dropped back and I was going on down the road toward the Western Kentucky Parkway. And on another occasion when I was going down that road, my motor began to miss out, and I'm not so sure I wasn't abducted that night. I...because time elapsed again, and when I got to the Western Kentucky Parkway, I pulled in at a gas station there and I stopped. And I kept looking out from the gas station and there were all kinds of blinking lights up there in the sky. And I...I pointed them out to somebody. I said: `Do you all see all those lights up there in the sky?' And apparently these people had gotten so use to it they didn't pay any mind to it. But none-the-less they were there. And right where you come off of the Purchase, there on...ah...not at the Purchase, but on the Parkway coming on to the Pennyrile there, that's exactly where th...that was taking place. But, when I left and moved up to this little town of Waverly, Kentucky, there were many, many instances that we saw these craft in the sky there. And I remember an incident about some lady in Kentucky claimed that they were picked up by a craft that was as large as three football fields. I don't doubt that story at all, because I've seen this...this round craft, and it is a large craft. So, if...if...if people are telling these stories, they are really happening. It's just not something they are dreaming up in their mind. And I've had these experiences. I don't understand them, but it did happen. And it did happen with six people in the car with me in 1974. (During a later visit with Oscar and his wife, Freda, I chronicled Oscar's life beginning with his birth and bringing him up to his present age and address. In doing this, we discovered that the 1974 incident at Daylight, Indiana, with six other people in the car, actually occurred in April, 1973. Thus, the incident occurred approximately six months after his initial sighting in Oct. 1972.) I, incidentally, I sent this...I made another replica of this craft and I sent this to the UFO Center in Evanston, Illinois. And I had a person to come down to see me from Bloomington, Indiana, from the UFO Center. And they ask me quite a few questions. There was no follow up on...on this at all. I had the feeling that these people who were questioning me at that time were governmental officials. And they...they have the information, they know about it. But I think they are...they know a lot more than they are telling people about this." Mike: "Could you hold the model at different angles and...and go again...once again describe what you saw on your model that...even the features that you don't have on it?" Oscar: "Well, in the...in the bottom part of this craft here, there is a...there is another square like piece that comes down and goes over and then goes down. And then from...in this area here, there is a French Protracted Curve that comes out on...in this area in here on both sides of this craft. I put these antenna on...on this craft from the side here, to show that there was antenna that protruded out on this craft in here like this. Now, the antenna that...that came out of the side of this craft is half telescoped. Made out of the same metallic material that...that is on here (the rest of the craft). I just put these antenna on there to show that there was antenna that came out the side of this craft. This craft in it...this craft had something like an electrum all around the whole circumference of this craft. It was literally bathed in light. Now when this light...that was recessed in this cone shaped thing here in the bottom of it...when it oscillated in the bottom of it, it sent this glow around the whole circumference of...of the craft. This bottom part in here, all the way across this part in here, when it...when this light oscillated, you could see the heat reverberate in the bottom of this thing from it. In fact the heat that comes out of the front of this craft in the front of it, if you...if you were to be exposed to that for any length of time, I think that it would literally burn the flesh right off of your body. I was 300 feet away from this thing and it literally...it just cooked my arms. It cooked my face. It burned me all the way down to my legs and this part of my body (points to mid-section). Burned me right straight through my clothes. And I had...that's...I think that's the reason that I set down when I did, because I couldn't have stood the heat from it for many...longer. I think it would have literally have burned my eyes right out of my head. I had headaches. The first time I saw this I had headaches for about 3 or 4 weeks after that. And this time when I looked at it my eyes ran water. Water ran out of my eyes for about 6 to 8 weeks after I looked into this light. So it's very important that...that anyone does have an encounter like that, they don't need to...they...they need to shield themselves from the light of this thing, because it will have a tremendous effect upon the...the body and also upon the person himself. It's strange...ah...strange that anything can travel as fast as this does. I'd like to say one thing about this. I've since realized that...that when I was looking at the television screen one night, they were talking about super conductivity. And they raised this little cube up, like that (makes a rising motion with hand). It made me realize what I was looking at...at that time. That it's possible for man to travel at any speed he wants to. He just doesn't realize how to do it yet. But, I would say that...that this is on the order of super conductivity, and the magnetic sphere and field around this thing. Because it...ah...it was real up... literally bathed in...in...in electrum light. And where it went, the light went right along with it. I think it literally...ah... this cloud that I was in, I believe that...I believe that this cloud that I was in and felt like I was in, the heat is so super around this thing that it literally was burning up the moisture that was in the air and that's what made this cloud. Now the hotter this...when this light oscillates fast, the more this light oscillates in the bottom, the brighter this thing gets (sounds as though the color changes as the frequency the craft emits increases). And the brighter it gets...ah...when it went away that night it looked just like a boiling cloud going...going away from us that night. And I ...like I say, I haven't had a close encounter with...with any craft since then. I've seen them a lot of times after that, until 1977. I've seen on the occasion after that many high sightings, but no low sightings. And I haven't seen those infrared spheres...Oh! And there was another ...there was another thing that I saw in the sky, that...that made me feel real funny. And this craft looked like the darkness of midnight with an infrared light in the...in the...that ...in the center of it. But it was so black that you couldn't see nothing but just plain darkness. That's all it emulated...was nothing but real dark, dark, dark light. And to loo...watch it go across the...they don't travel very...they were down rather low that night in Tennessee. And I've been back to this area a couple or three times, but I thought...always thought it was strange that all those people live around there and yet they don't show themselves to them people at all, hardly. There was a lot of people in Tennessee that...that witnessed this craft and talked about it openly. But seems like to me that the...the people that lived there took no interest in it at all. And that's kind of strange to realize that. I do know that they have had some sightings since then." Mike: "O.K." Freda: "We were going down the highway..." Oscar: "You, yea. You remember that time when we were going down the highway Freda, and this black, four cornered light, stayed in front of us all the way down the highway? And it was raining so bad that..." Freda: "Storming." Oscar: "Yea. And we couldn't even see where the road...(chuckles) started and where the road ended..." Freda: "It was just like a...a black square object. And it fit right in the front end of our car. And I got so upset...so excited that I laid down in the seat for a bit and I raised up and I said: `It's still there, it's still there. Look!' And we just kept on a going and finally...when it finally disappeared, we felt like we must get off of the highway..." Oscar: "But, I've...I had that feeling that as long as we followed this...this in front of us, that nothing would happen to us. And as it was, it...nothing happened. We were literally following this black, four cornered..." Freda: "It looked like it was black, shiny, and slick." Oscar: "in front of us. And it led us right straight down the highway. It's a very, very strange thing, and I'm not a person that ...that believes, I don't believe in mysticism. I'm a realist. And I'm a person that sees things for what they are. And, being a realist, I'm a realist about everything I do. I'm not a person to take chances. I always studied things that other people don't look into, and I'm a person that really seeks for knowledge. Because, I realize that knowledge is a defense and a strong tower. So, to acquire knowledge means that one must have an open mind. And that's the only way you can acquire knowledge is through an open mind. I've met a lot of people in my life who were closed minded and not ready to...to understand anything. When I first had this UFO experience, I wanted to find out if there was an answer to it. And it...I think that the conclusion that I've came from...what I've come to over the years, is that there is an answer to all of...of these things. And I'm sure that the one's in this craft, when they get ready for us to know what the answer is, that we will find out what it is. I don't know when that is going to come about, but... but there is...there is an answer." Mike: "Alright, let's go back to your sighting in 1972. You said that as it...the object would move and get ready to move, that you could watch the bottom of the light on the very bottom. And that you could determine in which direction that it was going to move. Was...how did you perceive direction? Was there a color change? Did it become more bright on one side than it would the other? Say, for instance, if it was going to move to it's left, would the light on...on the left side of it, or the right side of it get brighter?" Oscar: "I noticed...how come me to notice the way it was going to change...seemed like to me that when this light revolved, whatever direction they were going to turn in, that was...angle in which this light was...the angle that they were not going to turn on, it seemed to be real bright. But as it came, it swung around like this (makes revolving motion with hand). That light would change in the direction that they were going to go. And too, I think really and truly, that they were in some way communicating with me and telling me which ever angle that they were going to turn. Because, after I had this...after I heard this voice speak to me, it seems like that I had close communication with...with them." Mike: "Was it ever communication...ever instinctive knowledge that came to you after this first hearing the Voice? I noticed that several times you remarked that you communicated with them from time to time." Oscar: "Yea." Mike: "Now was this strictly a telepathic type of communication?" Oscar: "Yes, telepathic." Mike: "You don't...do you feel like that it at any time was based on, say maybe an abduction, where you could have been taken and told this? And then it was suppressed in your memory?" Oscar: "No! I had a feeling that they were so in tuned with my mind, that whatever I saw, they saw through my eyes for some reason. And it's a real strange feeling. Just something you can't explain. But I felt I...I just felt so broad in scope and view of things that whatever I was looking at they were...they were looking at it right along with me." Mike: "O.K. Were you always, prior to this first sighting, always open minded, in your opinion?" Oscar: "Well, I've always...like I've said, think that the way to be open minded is through knowledge. And I've always looked at... things from a different viewpoint. I always felt that if you really wanted to understand people, you had to understand what they believe in order to do that, in order to communicate. And I don't mean communicate in a sarcastic manner. Because if you communicate in a sarcastic manner, you're going to get a sarcastic reaction. In order to communicate with people, you have to have an open mind and you have to be willing to accept what they believe in order to communicate with them. You can't communicate with people any other way. If you have a hostile attitude, you're going to get a hostile reaction. It's that simple. So I didn't really fear. Even today I didn't fear whatever happened to me. I...I didn't fear it...like I say, there is some things about this that I don't talk about, because I don't feel that the average mind could comprehend what I'm trying to sa...what I'd be saying anyway. So I don't talk about it. There have been things that have happened to me in the past eight or nine years that have changed my whole life. For whatever reason, I ...I...I was told about certain things and they came true. My past life...and they happened just the way they said it would happen and I...I try to really comprehend it, of which I don't. There's some things that I don't comprehend about this." Mike: "Who...who told you these things that have happened?" Oscar: "Telepathically I was told." Mike: "These Ael...Extraterrestrial Intelligences passes this on?~ Oscar: "Yes, Yes!" Mike: "Extraterrestrial Intelligences revealed to you a past live?" Oscar: "Well, they...they revealed things to me that were going to happen to me that happened, that really did happen. I think they did it in a way so I would be prepared for the...for it, because it was a great shock." Mike: "Right." Oscar: "See? And of course with my religious background, that I had over the years, and the knowledge that I had acquired from that, it made me realize that whatever that is, if it...if it...whatever entity that is, it was a created entity. And when it was created, and how it was created, I don't know. But there's certain...their is a degree of intelligence there that I can't even...I can't even begin to fathom. Anyone who can telepathically communicate with me and use my mind and make me understand things, certainly know more about me than I know about myself. They know more about my working brain than I do. It's...it's...this is...the thing I'm trying to say is beyond comprehension. It's beyond comprehension! I don't fully understand it. I wish I knew all there would be to know about it. I look at all of the knowledge and wisdom that went into this thing and...and there's a great intelligence there. It's...in fact it's...it's so great that it's just...it's just hard for a human mind to comprehend it." Mike: "Did you at anytime feel that you were being manipulated?" Oscar: "Yes!" Mike: "Were you being forced to do things?" Oscar: "I...I felt that I was being manipulated. I don't know whether I was manipulated to do the...all the things that I...that I did, but in some way I...I really felt like I was being manipulated." Mike: "Did you feel like that...that the thing was a threat to you at any time?" Oscar: (Takes a deep breath while contemplating the question.) Mike: "If you didn't perform..." Oscar: "No, I...I didn't...I really didn't feel as...as if it was a threat. Because, I was told from the outset that I didn't have anything to fear. I felt that one time that possibly they were going to just literally pick me up and take me away. And I wasn't going to be free, but I...I begged to be free, because I said: `There are some things that I would like to do that I haven't had an opportunity to do, and I'd like to do that.'" Mike: "Were you ever in any...let's take for instance, this particular meeting between you and I, and those in this room. Were you ever, any time pri...in years prior to this, made aware that this would probably happen?" Oscar: "Yea." Mike: "That it was meant to be, in other words?" Oscar: "Oh, yes!" Mike: "Was it according to the time table you had been given, or was it early or late?" Oscar: "Well, in 1977, when I went to this TV station there, (WEHT -TV, CHANNEL 25, Evansville, Indiana) with my reproduction of what I saw in the sky, they looked at me rather skeptical. And I can say that I don't blame them for looking at me skeptical. Because I'm talking to people who are news reporters and although this is being reported and going on all over the world, they had the same feeling that I did, the first time that I got up out of my chair and walked to the back of the room. I had that same attitude. So it didn't come as any great surprise to me, but I felt that people who really needed to know about this...in fact I think they really wanted me to make it known. See? So that if it...it comes on a grand scale, it won't be...it won't be as near of a shock to people as...ah...you know after all we look around this Universe and...and we're floating in our little sphere. What goes on out of this sphere that we're in, we know little or nothing about it. My mother said: `It was a great thing for man to go the moon.' See? And I thought...and I said that: `It was not really a big deal.' And it really isn't a big deal. It...I...I said to her, I said: `As far as this Universe is concerned.' And I listened to this speech that many of our contemporary put out, such as conquering space. Well, going to the moon would be like a piss-ant crawling up on a window seal. It's... it's a very small thing, and yet as...as a real accomplishment for man, it is a great thing. But when we look at our Universe that we live in, and we look at the sphere that we live in ourself...in here we are floating in space with a magnetic field around us that holds us wherever we are in space. We can't see that magnetic field, and yet it does exist. I...I saw, not too long ago, the phenomenon of the Northern Lights. And the more these people observe these Northern Lights up there, they realize that they're dealing with a magnetic field that surrounds this earth. And those lights are really a magnetic force. They don't understand it, they don't comprehend it, but it's there. It's always there, the only difference is that we just can't see it. It's a force that we can't comprehend." Mike: "OK. Getting back to the 1972 sighting, where the objects came down close to the tree..." Oscar: "Yes." Mike: "...And they gave off the sparks. Did they actually touch the tree?" Oscar: "No." Mike: "Wer...wer...what do you think was the purpose for being around the tree?" Oscar: "I...it's...now I observed this thing for about at least a week. It made it's appearance through...you know...it's the same line...went to the same tree and went in the same direction every night. It...it was...it was as if it was programmed to do that." Mike: "Would you consider the possibility that...that these objects may have used this tree sort of like a grounding device?" Oscar: "That's right. They...they came right to the same tree every night. I thought when I...I could have set my watch by the time." Mike: "So you think that's their way of...of letting the earth... of grounding themselves to the earth by touching their fields?" Oscar: "Do you really...do you really want me to tell you what they were really doing with those things?" Mike: "Yes." Oscar: "They were...they...what they were really doing was surveying the ground. It...it was sort of a survey thing. Because they were really surveying out the land and so forth. Because when this thing came...this thing wasn't any more than five or six feet off of the ground. And it would go across field after field after field down there. And when it came to a tree, it would stop before that tree. And it would go right straight up over the top of that tree, and come right back down on the other side, and covered the whole field. And then...and then go to another field." * Mike: "There was a sense of purpose..." Oscar: "There was a purpose behind it." Mike: "Did you ever have a feeling of what the purpose may have been? Why they would take a little town like that and survey it? What was the name of this town?" Oscar: "Oh. This was in the...this was in...in the country side that they were doing that. And they were doing it all...all over that whole country side. I think they've done it all over the United States." Mike: "Do you think this was for the purpose of mapping?" Oscar: "Mapping!" Mike: "In exact maps." Oscar: "They...they know the terrain...they know the terrain better than you and...better than we do. It had...it was a sense of purpose. This thing...and...and yet if anyone would have went near that, they would have been absorbed by it. I was told that...that if I went near that, it would literally absorb me!" Mike: "Was this a telepathic..." Oscar: "Yes!" Mike: "Now this...was this a feeling or was it as a voice?" Oscar: "Oh, I...I've...not only the voice, but the feeling was there. DANGER! NOT TO GO NEAR THAT! If I went near that I would ...I would literally be absorbed! I would be no more!" Mike: "The...the absorption meant that your molecules would be just scattered..." Oscar: "Absolutely. No more! That's what I was told!" Mike: "Disintegrated!" -------------------------------------------------------------------- * I have in my files the name of a person in Kansas, who, while on a fishing trip with several other men, saw an orange sphere rise from behind a hill, level off at about 400 feet, and proceed to move over the terrain in an up and down zig zag fashion. He said all up and down and horizontal movement was done at 90 degree angles, and it looked to him as though it could have been some sort of terrain following equipment. He stated that static rather than music issued forth from his radio while they were fishing and attracted his attention to the object. Oscar: "That's true." Mike: "Because of the field itself." Oscar: "That's right." Mike: "Alright. Did they ever make known to you that...a way whereby you could safely approach?" Oscar: "Now way! No way to approach it safely! " Mike: "Alright. What about in...in your opinion now, based upon what you've seen and been telepathically told. The possibility of where people are picked up; how to you think that they safely enter those craft?" Oscar: "I think they're picked up...I think they enter into another...from my experience, I lost all sense of time. I think they are...are passed from one entity to another entity. I believe that when they come under the influence of this craft, this craft has it's own entity. What I mean by that is, it...you pass out of one magnetic field into another magnetic field." Mike: "Do you think these craft then are really living things, rather than mechanical objects?" Oscar: "I believe it's a mechanical object, but I don't...I believe ...in some ways I believe that some of the entities that are on there are not exactly real either. But the ones that are real are the ones that can come and look at you and communicate with you. They're real, but some of the...some of the objects that they use are mechanical." Mike: "Our scientists are finding ways to integrate genes with metals to make these metals have life, or intelligence." Oscar: "Yea." Mike: "Is this the type of material development, do you think, that's being used to make these things?" Or, do you think they're just strictly metal? And not metal as we think of it, but because they're...from what I've read they're a lightweight type of metal." Oscar: "Well, the...the ones that...the ones that are...are robot have this glow around them. The ones that are not robot, they are the real...they're real." Mike: "OK. So what you're saying is, the big craft, which you made the model of has the glow..." Oscar: "Yes!" Mike: "...Was more of a remote controlled ship?" Oscar: "No! You see these entities that are inside of this craft, are...are real!" Mike: "Alright." Oscar: "They are enveloped in this field. But on the inside of this field, the...the...the part that they are not a part of is...is this magnetic force, or whatever it is around this. They're... they're sealed in this, but they're protected from it. And they're real!" Mike: "Right." Oscar: "They're...but it...there is so much power and so much control here in this...in this craft. They...they have power untold. Power that they can control. They can...they can send out a...a light from this thing which literally shut...they could shut down a whole town if they wanted to!" Mike: "How do you think they do that?" Oscar: "I think they...I think it's done by magnetic forces. We... ah...it's...it's the only answer that I can understand. Anytime I...I...I go by this for the simple reason that if we have any magnetic force coming from the Sun, it kind of screws up your television. Screws up your radio communications. They...they have this type of power and they could...they can do just...it...anytime they want to, if they wanted to use it." Mike: "What we're looking at here is a remote controlled type of... of currents, where they can actually drain all of the energy out of everything, then turn around and charge it again form a distance." Oscar: "They can! They have the power to do that! They...they... you know our...when you stop and thing about our existence, ourself, our brain sends electrodes to the rest of our body. Since I've had this experience that I've had, I've lost a great deal of my sensitivity. I don't have the same sensitivity in my hands and my body that I use to. In fact, my...the electrical currents that come off of my brain are scattered. They don't follow any one particular point. They're scattered throughout my whole body now." Mike: "Do you have parts on your body that don't feel?" Oscar: "I have...I have no feelings in my arms and in my hips and certain parts of my body. In fact I could pick up a red hot pot and I don't even know I've got it in my hand until I have a burn from it." Mike: "In other words, if I take a pin and jab your fing..." Oscar: "I have no sensitivity at all. In fact I've had needles stuck in the...in the side of my hands by Neurologists. He says: `You don't even feel that do you?' I said: `No, I have no sensitivity.'" Mike: "Would you have any objection to a demonstration of that?" Oscar: "Yea, I don't have no objections. I...I cut my finger in there a while ago. I cut it and didn't even realize that I...I had done it until I had already done it." Mike: (Turning to my wife, Judy) "Do you have anything sharp? I don't have anything totally sharp." Judy: "No." Oscar: "I...ah...in fact I just went, not too long ago and I had... I had the...the..." Mike: "Acupuncture?" Oscar: "Yea. I've had needles that long (indicates a length of about six inches.) put down in my arms and through my back. And down in my side of my hands and all around. But, I...I do not have the sensitivity that I once had in my flesh." Mike: "OK." Judy: "Looks like that would effect the way you are able to move. It doesn't seem..." Oscar: "Well, I've been told by Neurologists that eventually I would...ah...eventually loose all of the movement altogether, because I've had a diffusion. In other words, what's happened to the Mylein that surrounds my nerves, I...I don't...I'm loosing all of that..." Judy: "Ummm..." Oscar: "...for some reason. They don't know why. I had...when I went over there and had all those tests over in...hospital over there. They told me that I...that eventually I would be paralyzed all over. But I...I figure well, you know, they said 10 years or so, and I said: `Well what difference does it make? If I live another 10 years I will have lived my life.' See? But no, I've had ...I've had them put it all the way down into my flesh, and the sensitivities just not there. I...I was rubbing my hips this morning, and my hip bones, and I said: `Boy, that's just as dead as a...there's no feeling there hardly at all.'" Mike: "And you think this is a direct result of coming in contact with the fields on these ships?~ Oscar: "I think it had...I think it had a lot to do with it. I've ...I didn't go very far with the Neurologist. I've...I wanted to tell him what I've felt it really was, but I don't think he's ready to...for that. Doesn't understand..." Mike: "And he hasn't been able to find any other cause for this loss of..." Oscar: "No! I didn't have diabetes. I don't have...ah...the only thing...he said that I had come in contact with a great deal of poison. I almost had to laugh about that, because I'm not conscious -------Cont in Oscar Jordan Part 3 ---------------------------------- -- -* Don Allen *- InterNet: dona@bilver.UUCP // Amiga..for the best of us. USnail: 1818G Landing Dr, Sanford Fl 32771 \X/ Why use anything else? :-) UUCP: ..uunet!tarpit!bilver!vicstoy!dona 0110 0110 0110 Just say NO! Illuminati < MJ-12|Greys|TLC|CFR|FED|Bilderbergs > UN = "New World Order" Article: 6319 of alt.conspiracy Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!crdgw1!ge-dab!tarpit!bilver!dona From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy Subject: CONTACT: Oscar Jordan case Part 3 (conclusion) Keywords: UFO contact Message-ID: <1991Jul4.022947.16079@bilver.uucp> Date: 4 Jul 91 02:29:47 GMT Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL Lines: 1319 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:1094 alt.conspiracy:6319 ----Oscar Jordon Part 3 (CONCLUSION) ------------------------------- of that fact." Mike: "A radiation type." Oscar: "Yes. I really think it's from a type of radiation." Mike: "Right." Oscar: "But I noticed when we came back up from Florida, this last trip up from Florida, I began to get blurred vision..." Freda: "Hold that." (Talking to Judy.) "Do you want that?" (Offering me a needle.) Mike: "No, just one of the small ones." Oscar: "I began to get blurred vision and have headaches and things like that." Freda: "Oops!" (Drops a needle.) Mike: "That's good right there." (Taking needle.) Freda: "Wait a minute, I've got two of them." Oscar: "And this doctor _____, he took a needle and went across my back with a needle and so forth, you know. And he said...he said to me; says: `you...you don't really feel that at all do you, in that area?' And I said: `No, I don't feel it.' And when they...when this doctor put that needle up through my hand, back up in here. (points to the webbing area between the thumb and index finger of his left hand.) He said: `You know that this is the most sensitive part of your whole body. You're going to come right off of the table." So I thought: `Well it's going to hurt.' So I rolled over and stuck my chops in the wall, you know. And I put my hand out like that and finally I said: `Well, have you got it in there?' He said: `Yea, I got it in there, don't you feel it?' I said: `No.' He said: `Well you're...I don't know about you!" Mike: "Ok. Here is a needle. I'll give it to you and let you do your own sticking, because I wouldn't want to be the one to do that to you." (Oscar sticks a needle into his left arm about two inches below the elbow. The needle is inserted about an eighth to a quarter of an inch. Once the needle is inserted, Oscar extends his arm to full length for all to view.) Mike: "Ouch! The back of the hand?" Oscar: "Naw. I don't even...I don't feel that at all. I just have no sensitivity." Mike: "What about on the back of your hand?" Oscar: "No. None." (Takes the needle out of his arm and sticks himself on the back of the hand, on his arm, on the underside, and also in the palm. The arm did not bleed from the needle sticks.) Mike: "None what so ever?" Oscar: "No! I have no sensitivity." Mike: "And you feel like this is a direct result from your exposure to the radiation from these..." Oscar: "I...you see I...I don't know. I can't actually say, but..." (Chuckles and hands me the needle.) Mike: "It's sharp alright!" (Stuck myself with needle.) Oscar: "Yea. I have no...no sensitivity. My...my sense of feel... like I say I...I've gone in there and picked up...sometimes I've picked up things from the stove. One night I thought I had that little cooking pan, and I thought I had hold of the handle of it and I really had hold of the bottom of it. And I picked that thing up and I said: `Oh my god Freda, I've got this in my hand! I need to put it down! And when I put it down it had burnt me all the way down through...all the way across these four fingers. (Takes the knife edge of his left hand and rubs it diagonally across his right palm, from the top of the index finger all the way down and off of the left edge of the heel of the palm, near the wrist.) I feel the feeling way down in the bone. So I just put my hand down in ice water for a little bit and about 15 or 20 minutes and it was all gone." Mike: "And you never blistered or anything?" Oscar: "I blistered a little bit on the corner of my finger here. In this area here." (Shows me the palm up side of his ring finger on the right hand.) Mike: "Yea, I can see that it's slick where it blistered." Oscar: "Yea, see. But I do that...I do it every now and then. I do it and I'm actually burnt before I have the deep down feeling in my flesh. But top feeling of flesh. I have none! None what so ever in the top part of my...my flesh!" Mike: "You're...did you have any of this feeling problems with your nerves before you had any..." Oscar: "No! No, I never had that problem at all!" Mike: "When did you fe...start noticing this loss of feeling?" Oscar: "In 19 and... Well it`s been in the past three years or four years that I've noticed this loss of feeling. I lost the feeling... I...I had this loss of feeling in...in my back here. It's more prominent in around my spine back here. In this general area than ...than before. (Points to the upper area of the spine in the area of the First Thoracic Vertebra.) Now I have a degeneration from an arthritic condition in the bone. But...and I talked to them about that and he said: `Well you...you shouldn't have...you shouldn't loose your feelings like that. I even went and had an MRI Scan (Magnetic Resonance Imaging) because I thought maybe I might...there might be something that was causing this loss of feeling. But they didn't find anything with an MRI Scan." Mike: "They can't...you are a walking enigma to them. They can't figure out what..." Oscar: "Well he just looked at me and they...this doctor to me, he says: `You know, since you don't have any feeling, I wonder why you're not just paralyzed all over? By all the rules in the book, you aught to be paralyzed and not be able to move!" Judy: "That's why I was asking. You didn't act like it bothered you any!" Oscar: "I...I don't notice it." Mike: "Do you have the medical reports on..." Oscar: "Oh yea! I got it. They call it "_______________________" but they..." Mike: "Do you have written papers?" Oscar: "Oh yea. But they..." Mike: "Can I see these please?" Oscar: "Yea. But they don't know...(laughs)...they...after having all the damn needles stuck in my arms and going through the whole nine yards, I walked out of there and the guy looked at me and he says...he just looked at me and he says: `I don't know about you. I'm...' This Neurologist, he...he just stood and shook his head. And I almost wanted to laugh at him, but I didn't." Mike: "You don't have pain in your body then, do you?" Oscar: "I have an...every now and then I get an electric current that I feel. It'll run from my head, all the way down to the bottom of my feet. And I feel this electric charge, but it goes through and...fttt...out, just like that." (Makes a sweeping motion with his right hand from the top of his head through the bottom of his feet and away from himself in a flicking motion.) Mike: "Is it painful?" Oscar: "Very painful! And..." Mike: "It's quick?" Oscar: "Yea. And then sometimes when I feel...when I have this feeling...when I...I take this Amitriptyline to..to kindly...ah... cut this electric current charges run through my body. I take it, the Amitriptyline, to kind of shut that down, so I don't notice it as much. And I don't sleep like you do! I could stay awake around the clock. An...and I don't have to go to sleep to rest. Strange, ain't it?" (Chuckles) Mike: "You rest while you're awake?" Oscar: (Laughing) "Yea, yea!" Mike: "How long have you been doing this?" Oscar: "Oh...I've been doing this ever since that happened to me." Mike: "Since 1974?" Oscar: "Yea. I..." Mike: "Do you still see more and more of the pictures? Do they continually present them..." Oscar: "Well, I kindly, over the...over the years, I kinda shut this thing off, you know. I just kinda turned my mind away from it. See?" Mike: "Have you ever at any time, when you'd see these pictures, tried to sketch out the best you could, what you were seeing? Make sketches? To write it out in a...in a...a diary type format?" Oscar: (Inhaling deeply and letting it out with a sigh) "Well, I...this may sound strange to you, but I have a photographic mind. I can look at a page and almost remember the whole page." Mike: "Have you always been this way?" Oscar: "Well, more so over the past few years." Mike: "In other words, these are acquired traits?" Oscar: "Yea. And...and so what happens to me...and Freda says... OH! She says: `I don'`t know how you can remember all of that.' When it comes to the Bible, I can almost go through the whole book, you know. And she says: `How can you remember all those things?' and I said: `Well Freda, I don't know, but I do.' She can be reading and I know what that next words gonna be. If she jumps over it, don't say it right, I'll tell her what it says. She says: `How did you know it said that?' and I said: `Well, I just know it says that.'" Mike: "Photographic memory?" Oscar: "Yea. So that's how I retain things, but when it comes to...I can remember things better than I can make my hands do. See? And...but I'm...I a really...a strange person. Like I said, I felt like I was absorbed and really taken over by whatever it was that I came in contact with!" Mike: "These...this one incident when you were looking at the model here..." (I hand him the model of the object he constructed) Oscar: "Yea." Mike: "...in 1974, and you said that it felt like the car was lifted..." Oscar: "Oh, yea!" Mike: "...and that you were in a cloud." Oscar: (Laughs) "I'm setting in a...I kept looking at this confounded tree setting over there, on the side of the road. I kept saying to myself: `Well, I'm in a cloud here! I'm in a cloud!' And I...I kept looking out at the...at the moon. And I thought: `Boy! That moon surely didn't get that high in the sky.' But this was after...this was after we were...you...you understand what I'm trying to say to you? That time element, there! From the time I was seeing all of these things; eighty minutes of time had elapsed!" Mike: "Right! That you couldn't account for!" Oscar: "Couldn't account for!" Mike: (Snapping my fingers) "Seems like it went just like that!" Oscar: "It just seemed like it was just a second!" Mike: "And the moon when you observed it. What direction was the moon in when you observed it?" Oscar: "Well, the moon...the moon was just coming up on the rise. But when I looked back at...at this moon, that moon was setting up here like this. (Raises arm to about eighty degrees above horizon) And I got to thinking: `Well, that moon didn't get up there that fast.' You know? I said: `It just couldn't have got there that fast.' Because, when we first saw this craft, the moon and the craft were identical. But then when I looked later, the moon was setting up over here, and the craft was setting out here like this. (points to the angle at which each object resided) And I thought: `Dad gone, that moon surely didn't rise up that fast!'" Mike: "And you have no memory of anything in between, other than the cloud?" Oscar: "No. No. Only six months later, I'm seeing all these lights flashing off and on in my mind." Mike: "Here is a book that was...1974. THE UFO EVIDENCE, that was published by NICAP. Now do you know what NICAP was?" Oscar: "No!" Mike: "The NATIONAL INVESTIGATION COMMITTEE ON AERIAL PHENOMENA, in Washington, D.C." Oscar: "No." Mike: "OK. It shows here on page 144, sightings of diagrams of the most commonly sighted type craft. Do you see anything in there that resembles any of the things that you've looked at over the period of time?" (THE UFO EVIDENCE - 1964) Oscar: "This. This." Mike: "That's the coin view of...see, each one is a view from different angles of it." Oscar: "Yea. And, let me see." Mike: "Do you want to turn it toward the camera and point it out at the camera? Just..." Oscar: "Yea. I've seen this. This one up in the corner, the diagonal." Mike: "That's the flat disk." (UFO Shape No. 1 - Flat Disk) Oscar: "Yea!" Mike: "In the..." Oscar: "I've seen this flat disk." Mike: "View -B-. Right?" (Side view) Oscar: "I've seen this one...ah...the one that I know. And I've seen this one here." Mike: "Alright. That's the triangular shape. Number eight?" Oscar: "Yea. And I've seen the round one." Mike: "And you've seen the round spherical disk?" (No. 6.) Oscar: "Yea. Yea!" Mike: What about this, the number 10 there? The source, light source only? It's just a little..." Oscar: "Oh, yea! Yea!" Mike: "...down at the...No! Down at the bottom here. See?" Oscar: "Oh, yea! Yes. This is the one that we...that I see now quite frequently." Mike: "OK." Oscar: "Just the flick-flick, flick-flick, flick-flick." (Describing the strobe light effect on the UFO) Mike: "Right. Now I have another series of pictures, and these are drawings that came from out of China. And see if any of those look familiar to you. Those particular type drawings that the Chinese reported frequently." Oscar: "Yea. This one." Mike: "Which one is that?~ Oscar: "This one right here." Mike: That's the...alright, turn that toward the camera also." Oscar: " Yea. This one." Mike: "That's...I don't know if we can pick it up over there." Oscar: "I doubt it, but I'll turn it around like this." Mike: "There we go." Oscar: "This one." (Pg.258, UFO'S OVER MODERN CHINA W. C. Stevens AND Paul Dong @ 1983 Tucson Arizona) Mike: "The box. That's the one your..." Oscar: "Yes. This one, and this one here. Just a...and then there's the ball shaped..." Mike: "Sphere?" Oscar: "This with the infrared light around it." Mike: "Uh-huhhhh...!" Oscar: "Yea!" Mike: "Is this one here the one on the first one? The box? Is this one the one you said...like the platform that you saw on the edge of outer space?" Oscar: "I saw...you remember this...you remember this one we just looked at up in the top there, with the flat platform? That's the one I saw where the lights were coming in and out of this thing. And I was looking at that one back toward the north that day. I'm looking sort of toward the north, I would say North-West, when I saw that one. And I thought...I stood there and looked at it for almost thirty minutes. And I thought: `Man.' And this was more in the daylight than it was in the dark, that I was looking at and saw all of this." Mike: "Have you seen anything like this one?" Oscar: "Now this is the...this is the...I would say...I would say that I have seen similar to that." Mike: "That's like the flat one." Oscar: "Yea. Flat one." Mike: "Guess I'll show the camera here. It's a flat...it's not a cigar, really, because it's flat on each end. But it seems to have a protrusion at the bottom." Oscar: "Yes." Mike: "Where things can come out." Oscar: "Yea. You're getting...you're getting right down to the nitty gritty!" (Laughs) Mike: "Here's some better views of it." Oscar: "Yea. Yep. Yes sir. Yea. I looked at that thing and I... I saw lights coming in and out of that thing and going and and I thought to myself: `Why hell, nobody will believe that. Nobody on this Earth will believe it. This thing has got to be huge, because you're...you're looking...' I was looking at this platform and I thought they were really playing tricks with my mind. And I thought: `Man! Just look at the lights up...lights above it and around it. Just small little flickering lights.' And they were coming and going like that." (Reference to a photo of an object on page 63-67 in the book: UFO Vol. 2, Photographs Around The World; By: Wendelle C. Stevens and August C. Roberts. Copyright 1985 P.O. Box 17206 - Tucson, Arizona 85710.) Mike: "You can show that to the camera as a matter of record too." Oscar: "Yea!" Mike: "OK. You might kind of glance through there and see if you see any other type things that you have...based on these photographs that people have taken. That's the same page right there." Oscar: "Now this one here reminds me of...this reminds me of...of of...of this down here." Mike: "They're the same series of photographs of the same object. So you might want to just scan...and he's got line drawings of what each disk looks like before he ever shows the disk. Any of these that you saw ever have any markings on them? Like these pictures?" Oscar: "No. Uh-uh. No. I've seen this one!" Mike: "The light." Oscar: "Yea! Just...just a glow. In fact that's what this one looked like when it came toward me. Just a glow and then when it got closer, it...I...I really got to see what it looked like. (Pg. 17-19 UFO Photographs Around the World, Vol. 2.) Mike: "And this is what the glow looks like right here. So even though you can't tell, he's drawing a photograph before each photograph of each type, to help explain. There's one that...see the lights all around it?" (Pg. 52-53 shows picture of Adamski cigar shaped mother ship and small scout craft. Vol 2) Oscar: "Yea." Mike: "But the...your's apparently didn't look quite like that one." Oscar: "Uh-uh." Mike: "They had the same light type." Oscar: "But you...can you understand this? That...that they're able to shut this light off." Mike: "Just like we would turn a light off." Oscar: "And...and all you're going to see is a black...a black shape there. That's all. And we've seen that black shape enough times to turn our...really turn our attention." Mike: "See there's your drawing there." Oscar: "Yea." Mike: A lot of times you were...you touched on the holographic aspect of it." Oscar: "Yes." Mike: "Did...ah...what you see is not really what's there." Oscar: "If I tried to describe what I saw in the holograph...the hologram, I'd be hard put to do that, because they...it seems like to me they directed my mind to it. My mind ran over the whole thing of it, and I thought...Ohhh!" Freda: "You know what a hologram looks like?" Mike: "Well it depends on what it's a hologram of. Oh, you're talking about the symbol of a hologram!" Oscar: "Yea." Mike: "OK. Like the dodecahedron." Oscar: "Now this...this, if you'll notice in here, this...this... this thing right in here. You see this, right in here? Shows me a picture on the front cover of National Geographic Magazine.) That looks like a...it sort of looks triangle shaped with a cloud. But here's another...Oh! There's one other thing I remembered one night ..." Freda: "There's a hologram." Mike: "This?" Oscar: "Just hold it up to the light." Freda: "You got to hold it right." Oscar: "Put it into the light. Turn it around. Oh no, you can't see it there." Mike: "Uh-uh. I can just make out marks, but that's about all I can see." Freda: "Here. There! You've got the right color there." Mike: "Yea! Right! It's like a three dimensional image." Freda: "Cause I'm bending the..." Oscar: "That`s...that's three dimensional." Mike: "Right!" Oscar: "See. I was looking at a three dimensional image." Mike: "The color's on the bottom..." Freda: "Now, I think we will find that too, if we bend it." Mike: "Now that's suppose to be the Earth. Yea! There you go." Freda: "We will bend it." Mike: "Right! It's a three dimensional...this is a hologram." Oscar: "Yea. It's a hologram." Mike: "But is this the..." Oscar: "Do you know how that's put on there? It's put on with a laser." Mike: "Yea. I've seen them do it on T.V." Oscar: "Yea. It doesn't exist. They're...they're..." Mike: (To Judy) "Did you see it?" Oscar: "They're making things out there of a hologram." Mike: "Bend it to get the light to hit it." Judy: "I see it." Mike: "These pictures are very vague. They're small, they're not blown up and they're hard to see." Oscar: "Yea. I...looking at some of these..." Mike: "But your hologram, what was it of? The one they showed you?" Oscar: (Laughing) "Oh alright. When I...when I think about what they did to my eyes that night, I almost turned...I almost turned green with envy. They made me see things that if I a...I couldn't ever describe what went on. What they made me see." Mike: "If you can do...I know our scientists can use holograms now to project...they use holograms to project a false image of me to another part of the room, and people won't know the difference." Oscar: "Oh yea! That's right." Mike: "Because of light. All it is, is the focus of light." Oscar: "This is...this...I've seen that UFO this way. This way. This way. And that way!" (Indicates different shapes) Mike: "That's a good example of their force fields. How they... how they can show them." Oscar: "Yea. That's right. And this." Mike: "Did you ever see one like this that had the spiral of lights like that?" (Pg. 258 UFO over China) Oscar: "No. I haven't. Uh-Uh. No!" Mike: "OK. Now, I have another book here which I've saved, that we'll get into. And these pictures are in color." (UFO...CONTACT FROM THE PLEADIES...Vol. 1. Picture Book. (Revised edition) Copyright 1980 by Genesis lll Publishing. Phoenix, Arizona) Oscar: "Yea!" Mike: "And..." Freda: "There Oscar! Right on the front door. Looks like yours!" Mike: (Pointing to picture taped inside front cover) "There I was in high school. I built this rocked back in high school out of carpet containers and wrapped it in aluminum foil, for our prom." Oscar: "You did?" Mike: "Uh-huh. Yes. And here is the tree effect." (Showing Oscar Sun Ship picture of Meier Case.) Oscar: "...Ah...you see..." Mike: "Parked by the tree." Oscar: "The one that I saw was more out in the open, like this. I ...I was using this tree to sight by. But the U...the UFO was over in this area like that." (Makes hand jester to show that the UFO he saw in Jackson, Tenn. in 1972, was in front of the tree, near the ground.) Mike: "But this one is supposedly pulled up from the tree and parked." Oscar: "Yea...well! Now you remember I told you about this...ah... you remember I told you about this UFO that came to that tree every night? It was just a round sphere, and that thing would come there and...and hover over the top of that tree. In fact, it would hover right over the top of it and it...and when it...and it...these electric sparks just seem like they came out from all around. Huh? Mike: (Oscar continues to look through the picture book Number One of the Meier Photo's) "The little dipper type thing you was talking about?" (Pointing to photograph of Pleadies Star System.) Oscar: "Yea." Mike: "That's the Pleadies Constellation." Oscar: "The Pleadies?" Mike: "And this is...this is where he claims...this man claims that this group comes from, this one here. There's the Hyades over there. Like the goat (devil) Hyades." Oscar: "Yea. Un-huh." Mike: "And then the Taurus section of the sky." Oscar: "Yea." Mike: "There's this...and it goes on out of course." Oscar: "How many light years is that away from us?" Mike: "He claims 500 light years." Oscar: "500 Light Years? That's...that's enough isn't it?" Mike: "Right, I'd say so." Oscar: "Sure." Mike: "I could make the jump in a minute or two I think." (Laughing) Oscar: (Laughing) "Yeeees." (Laughing continues) Mike: "A person...one thing I learned early is...is a person has to have a sense of humor to go along with an open mind." Oscar: "Yea. I always...I've got a..." Freda: "Yea. To keep from getting frightened over it." Oscar: "I gotta...I almost gotta laugh too, but I...you know, like I said for years after I saw this thing. I looked for answers, and the more I looked, the further away the answer got from me. So the answer is, there is no answer. See? That's the answer." Mike: "For us." Oscar: "For us!" Freda: "What was it that one told you? That you had no time? Time meant nothing!" Oscar: "Oh Yea! I...I remember...ah...I remember talking and they said: `What time have you got?' And I remember glancing down at my watch like this and I said; I was giving them the time and he...and he turned around and looked...and he...(indicates that the ET looked at him and held his hand out toward him as if to say: `Stop!')... like that, and he said: `You don't even know what...' he said: `I can see that you know little or nothing about time!' So...ah..." Mike: "Now would you explain in...in detail, because that's...ah... you're saying: `He turned around.' Like there's a physical person standing in front of you!" Oscar: "Yea! And...well there was...there was more than one! There was one here (points to his left), one over there (in front of him), and one there!" (points to his right. Three in a row spaced out some.) Mike: "Will you go back to the beginning of this story and start at the beginning?" Oscar: "I remember this white room that I was in. And I was about ...I wanted to get into Evansville real bad, because I had...I wanted to drive back down into Tennessee and I kept saying: `I don't have any...I don't have any time.' In fact, I was really trying to push them that night to get back to Evansville, because I didn't...like I had any time." Mike: "These are the people that you think abducted you?" Oscar: "Yea! And I kept saying: `I don't have time! I don't have time!' And...ah...finally he says: `Well, what time is it?' And I look...looked and I sa...was quoting the time. And I remembered saying...I remember them saying to me: `Well, you don't even know anything about time at all!' And I felt so damn stupid! I felt absolutely stupid! And I kept looking at this...I kept looking at this panel. I thought I was looking at a panel and a thing just kept moving so fast. I think they were...I think they were doing something with my mind!" Mike: "Did they put any kind of devices on you?" Oscar: "Ahhh..." Mike: "Attach anything to your body? Did they have any kind of mechanical mechanism that they brought around and scanned you with? Or something of this nature?" Oscar: (Thinking, trying to remember. Long pause.) Mike: "Don't be afraid to talk to me, because I know from where you're coming, from dealing with other people who have...even though I myself don't have any conscious memory doing this, I've dealt with other people who have. So don't be afraid to say...unless they're trying to blank you out." Oscar: "That's where...that's where everything comes to...a point." Mike: "Do you think this is...that...you...ah...get so excited when you first start talking about it. And then when I ask you a certain question, it's almost like the look on your face...just like you almost went blank." Oscar: "That's the part I can't remember." Mike: "You remember these beings. Right?" Oscar: "Yea." Mike: "What do they look like?" Oscar: "Well, ah..." Mike: "Height? Weight? You know, the color of skin texture?" Oscar: "These...ah...that I remember looking at, they had metallic suits on." Mike: "What color was...what color metallic? Were they white? Silver?" Oscar: "They were sort of white metallic and I really wanted to get away from them. I thought: `Well, I really got to get out of here. I got to...I got to get back into Evansville!' And he kept...and he kept saying to me: `Well you're...you're...ah...what time do you want it to be?' And I said: `Well, I don't want it to be a certain time.' And they said: `What time is it?' And when I told them what time it was, they said: `Well, you don't know anything about time at all!' And I realized the next day what they were really saying to me, because I lost all sense of time. And when I got back into Evansville, I thought the time that I wanted it to be, and the time it was didn't make any difference, because I wasn't going anywhere anyway! See? Strange ain't it?" Mike: "In other words...we...we had been ingrained in the importance of being certain places at certain intervals?" Oscar: "Yea. There's really no...ah...to them time didn't mean anything, and they weren't going the same place I wanted to go anyway. So they didn't really...they pointed out to me that it didn't really make any difference." Mike: "What...it...sounds like they're saying to you, and you can tell me if I'm right or wrong here is: Why rush? Just take every thing at a progressive...don't have any destination in mind." Oscar: "Yea. I think that's...I think that's exactly what they were trying to convey to me." Mike: "And we as a generation here, people on this Earth, set goals from point A to point B, and so much...schedule to get there." Oscar: "Well, I think that...I think what they were trying to say to me was that you operate on a...on a different time schedule than we operate on. And so time shouldn't be the all important thing. My watch wasn't running anyway, so it really wasn't going anywhere." Mike: "Describe the...if you would the facial features of these... any of these beings." Oscar: "They were very thin. In fact I...their faces are...ah... the upper part of their face is a lot larger than ours. They have no...in fact with...the suits that they wore were up over their...up over the top of them. Their eyes are rather...their eyes are the kind of eyes that just look right straight through you! In fact they look at you like you're really not there!" Mike: "What was the shape of their eyes?" Oscar: "Their eyes are...were round and up, like this." (Makes out side corners slant up and wrap around the head.) Mike: "Slanted?" Oscar: "Yes." Mike: "Oriental type?" Oscar: "Up! Yea." Mike: "Did they have any pupils in them?" Oscar: "No. Not...not that I could see." Mike: "What was the color of them?" Oscar: "If I looked in them, I would have to say they were dark and sort of...real glassy looking. Like they were just set!" Mike: "In other words, there was no movement to their eyes?" Oscar: "No." Mike: "Their eye was a fixed eye, in a certain place? Now do you think this was actually their eye, or was this some kind of outer protective part of their eye?" Oscar: "No. I've...I had to wonder about that, because none of it ...none of it seemed real to me at the time." Mike: "Ok. This is not a very good...gonna be very good, but..." (I make a drawing of typical small, thin, big eyed, gray ET.) Oscar: "Yea! You've got it!" Mike: "Ok. And say just a slit...like that? Is that the way they looked?" Oscar: "Yea!" Mike: "There was no lips? No nose? No ears?" Oscar: "Uh-Uh." Mike: "And then their bodies were just...little thin necks?" Oscar: (Laughs) "Yea. They looked like they'd be absolutely powerless against somebody like me. But...ah..." Mike: (Interjects) "Very strong!" Oscar: "They didn't look very strong. But they...I wasn't able to life my arms up." Judy: "They did that with their head." (Laughs) Oscar: "Huh? I couldn't..." Judy: "They did that...worked on your head." Oscar: "I couldn't lift my arms up. I was just more...motionless than anything else. I felt absolutely at their mercy!" Mike: "In all these, the eyes are really...rather black weren't they?" Oscar: "They were dark." Mike: "Dark color, but you couldn't detect any motion or emotion?" Oscar: "It seem...wherever their head...it seemed where...when they turned their head, whatever they turned, their eyes went right along with them. Do you know what I'm trying to say to you? There wasn't any...ah...they didn't look to the right or to the left like we do, and they don't turn their eyes to see what they want to see, they... their...they...it's just fixed and their...you look at them and they`re looking right straight through you! (Looks at my drawing) Yes!" Mike: "Is that the proper angle or were they more of a flatter..." Oscar: "Yes. Uh-huh. That's it!" Freda: "Skinny chin." Mike: "Yea. And how tall were they, would you say?" Oscar: "I...the ones I would say...I would say they were approximately five feet tall. Or...or...no more than five feet tall." Mike: "Did they have normal hands on their body?" Oscar: "No! Their hands were longer!" Judy: "Were you always in your car when this happened to you?" Oscar: "No. They weren't in the car. I wasn't in the car either. I don't re...ever remember being out of the car. I don't know. I do know that this car, this station wagon...I saw it about three weeks after that, and all the paint had rolled up on the outside of it. I mean just pealed right off! Yea. Uh-huh." Mike: "The hands look real...more fing...all fingers nearly?" Oscar: "Yea. Yea." Mike: "Like they were real long? Three of them maybe? Or four of them? No thumbs?" Oscar: "I couldn't...I just remember the..." Mike: "Was there any webb...say a webbing?" Oscar: "I'm not sure." Mike: "Give an effect like this?" Oscar: "I'm not sure. I wasn't...I was only looking at the eyes! And...ah...and..." Mike: "They sort of transfixed you? The eyes did?" Oscar: "Yea." Mike: "Were there little guys as well?" Oscar: "I was sitting there looking at them and I thought...and I kept saying: `You got to let me go! You got to let me go!' And I thought they weren't going to let me do. That's the whole thing. Because I couldn't have went, you know. And...and...I think these people that were with me, I don't think they even bothered with them at all. I'm not sure where they did or not. This big old fellow was driving the station wagon. He...more like this." (Makes reference to picture I was drawing) Mike: "Like this one without the webbs?" Oscar: "Yea." Mike: "About this size hands?" Oscar: "Yea." Mike: "Ok. It follows the scenario. Did they...did you see any features within the ship itself?" Oscar: "I kept...I...I...as I said, I kept looking at this panel that I was looking at. I kept...I kept thinking: `Boy you're really feeding me a lot of stuff, and I can't absorb all of this stuff that's going...just moving.' It was moving so fast through... through this up here, that I couldn't...I just thought: `I'll retain all of this. And I don't even know why you're...why you're doing this in the first place!' See? I still don't know why they did it." Mike: "They didn't...they didn't answer any questions?" Oscar: "No." Mike: "They ask you questions, but they didn't give you any answers." Oscar: "Not too many. They weren't there to give out answers." Mike: "Right. They were there to get answers!" Oscar: "Yea! They were really looking me over and...and they called me by name, and I think that's the thing that really got me more than anything else. I thought: `How in the world would you know my name?" Mike: "They...if they are like this, they more than likely, came from a star system called Zeta Reticula. It's a double star system." Oscar: "You know, I had the occasion to set my telescope up and look at that particular star that sort of wobbles in the sky. And it wob...it wobbles like this (makes a wobbling motion with his hand) and I was always called...I...it...when I was down in Tennessee, I always looked out and I was...my attention was always called to that wobbly star in the sky. Looks like it's just all around...moving like this all the time. But it...it...it's so far away." Mike: "Ok. You...ah...when you were in Tennessee, you saw this large circular object over the road." Oscar: "Ohhh!" Mike: "And then in time you wound up on a back road somewhere?" Oscar: "Yea!...ah..." Mike: "How much time became missing there?" Oscar: "I don't know! Freda, I can't tell. Could you tell?" Freda: "Uh-Uh. No!" Oscar: "No. I couldn't tell." Freda: "We were just...ah...we looked at each other and we were both kind of confused and he said: `I can't ever remember turning off of that main road. Can you?' And here we was on this side road. We had made a turn around, complete turn around. And we was driving slow and he says: `Well. I don't even know where to go to find out how to get back.'" Oscar: "I kept looking at...she kept following this glow in the sky, and I kept following it too. And I...I said: `Freda, they're making a complete circle around us!' And she said: `They are at that, aren't they?' And I said: `Yea. They're making a complete ci...let's don't get shook up about this!'" Mike: "What were the weather conditions on this night?" Oscar: "I'eee..." Freda: "Now that...when we saw that, it was clear. It wasn't a clear night, but it was a good night. It was...ah...it..." Mike: "Was it Winter? Summer?" Freda: " No. It was Summer." Mike: "The temperature, would you say?" Freda: "I'd say 60. Somewhere in that area." Mike: "And it wasn't stormy? It was partly cloudy you say." Freda: "No." Mike: "Now clear..." Freda: "And...and that...that light just..." Mike: "How large did this light..." Freda: "He said: `Hey! Look! Look!' The way it looked like... it was this big to us." Oscar: "Ohhh god! It covered the...the brightness of it...it just lit up the whole sky. And I said: `I wonder if anybody's looking at this like we are?'" Freda: "Then...then when we finally got straightened out was...ah ...when a car came down the highway. And then it went out." Mike: "Ok. Now you say that it appeared..." Freda: "It appeared to be...just like that and it...it just moved and I said: `Look! Look! Look Oscar!" Mike: "About the size of a large basketball to you?" Oscar: "It was larger than that!" (Laughs) Freda: "Oh yea. Yea it was." Oscar: "It...it lit up the whole...it lit up the whole terrain all the way around it. Oh. It was...it wasn't close to us at all. It ...it was just going...making a sweep like that." (Makes a 360 degree circular sweep with his arm above his head) Mike: "But yet it appeared huge." Oscar: "It was huge!" Freda: "It appeared...it appeared to us to be pretty big and it appeared to be...well, you know how you've seen the moon sometimes, pretty big? You know?" Mike: "How...If you could hold...put your hands around it, just to measure..." Oscar: (Chuckles) "I couldn't do it. I couldn't..." Mike: "From where you were, could you have got your hands around either side of it?" Oscar: "Uh-uh. No." Mike: "Top or bottom?" Oscar: "No. No." Mike: "And it was just a light?" Oscar: "Just a great big glowing light that went from this way around us all the way around to..." (moves hand in a clockwise direction) Mike: "Was it within a mile of you?" Freda: "Oh, I think it was further than that away." Mike: "Five miles? Ten miles?" Freda: "It sounds more like five miles. I think..." Mike: "And it made a complete...you're in a little car down here, and this thing is ten miles away making a humongus circle that would color...cover a ten to twenty mile arc all the way around. Is that what you're saying?" Oscar: "Yea." Freda: There wasn't no other traffic. It was at night time. There weren't no other traffic on that road!" Mike: "And where was this located?" Oscar: "We were coming out of...ahhh...Ohhh, what is that...what is that town in...ah..." Freda: "It was in Tennessee." Oscar: "Yea. We...it's right where the...what is that little town there Freda?" Freda: "Humbolt?" Oscar: "No. Ohhh, no, no, no! The make...they use to make suits there in this...in this little town." Freda: "Ohhh." Oscar: "I can't think of the name of it." Freda: "It won't come to me." Oscar: "No. I...in fact I've got one in there hanging up in the closet that came from that place." Freda: "It...it was a unusual feeling with...especially with me. And you know, well...don't get excited...just be cool...you're alright." Mike: "Did the light shine in the car?" Oscar: "Oh yea! The light...we could look...you could see the brightness of the light. It Just..." Freda: "It was a bright light." Oscar: "Yea. I said: `Hey Freda, they're up there!' (Laughs) Freda looked at me and said: `They are?' I said: `You better believe they're up there!' I said: `They're going to...doing a number on us right now." Freda: "See, it was him that was driving and...and I said: `Look, look!' And that...on across in front of us...man I turned all the way around in the front seat and I just kept following it and following it. And he got...he got almost back to where he was and..." Oscar: "I'll tell you where I was really afraid they were going to grab us. When we were coming down...down the...coming down the Purchase, there to the...to the Western Kentucky Parkway. That's where I thought...in between the Purchase and the Parkway is where they're really going to put the...put the stop on us. I...that certain hill there along where that Purchase is. This time we got along there and I didn't...you know, the motor didn't stop or slow or nothing!" Mike: "How many times have you had the automobile engine stop on you?" Oscar: "Well, two times that I know of, and that was up...that's the time it happened up there..." Freda: "We came to a complete stop and then we looked around and turned around and came back." Oscar: "And the next time that happened I was by myself coming down that Purchase there that night. And the car motor stopped and I kept seeing this light off up there and I said: `Dad-gone-it, I'm not going to let that happen to me tonight. I'm not going to let it happen!' But I don't know, I...I think it happened anyway and I didn't have anything to say about it, because it got dark again just like before on me." Mike: "So, you feel that humans are totally defenseless against these beings?" Oscar: "Yea, they are!" Freda: "Oh! He made a remark...what was it you made a remark one time? You made a remark about: `Well they could take care of armies,' or something." Oscar: "Oh, I...yea. I made this statement. I was...like I said, I was talking to this psychiatrist, you know? And I was explaining this to him, you know. And I said: `You know, if they wanted to, they could shut down armies.' I said: `There wouldn't be one thing on this Earth that would move...that's mechanical...to make war. If they want to shut it down, it'll stop! It'll cease!'" Mike: "Who was this Psychiatrist?" Oscar: "He's a V.A. Psychologist that I talked to. And he said... he told me: `Don't talk about this to anybody, because they'll want to put you down on the funny farm!'" Freda: "Oh yea, you really...he really encouraged us to knock it off!" Oscar: "So...yea. He..." Mike: "Would it be possible for me to get his name and phone number from you?" Oscar: (Laughs) Mike: "Can you...this is the purpose of the investigation...is to corroborate evidence." Freda: "I don't think he'd be too happy about it, do you?" Oscar: "I don't think he'd be too happy at all about it. You know, he wouldn't want to be...in fact he was so adamant about me talking about this it wasn't even funny. He said: `Just don't talk about it.' He said: `Because it makes you look rather odd.' And I thought...sitting in that chair, I thought how odd I'd look." Freda: "Well, he didn't believe it!" Oscar: "I thought how odd I really was anyway, you know? But..." Freda: "Oscar! Don't you think I've said to much?" Oscar: "I understood...I understood what his feelings were, and I knew where he was coming from." Mike: "He was scared. Wasn't he?" Oscar: "Well. (pause) You see...here is a man who has taken up Psychology, psychiatric things and I...of course I've...I've read this lady psychologist, Cathy Horney and...how did the book go? Psycholo...psychiatry and neurosis...and there are so many different types of neurosis...in this book. And I...and I was reading in there and I was trying to find out if any of those patterns of neurosis really fitted me. And the more I read, the more I realized that there wasn't any pattern there or any particular pattern that would fit me. There just wasn't any there. So, I just...I just more or less did a ninety-nine away from all of that. And then I decided a few years ago when..." Freda: "He said: `Well maybe they would try to put me in a funny farm.'" Oscar: "Well...I don't...I decided a few years ago when they...that nobody would really be interested in...in knowing about this. I just more or less...we just put this (the UFO model he had made) in the closet and I forgot about it for how many years Freda, did I forget...forget this?" Freda: "Oh, last three or four years when...you've been real busy." Mike: (I then showed Oscar and Freda Jordan excerpts of about ten minutes from the "Meier Chronicles" and Oscar said he had seen some of the same movements and displays of anomalous activity himself.) ------------------------ This concludes the preliminary interview. Since then I have continued to visit with Oscar and Freda Jordan on numerous occasions. He continually tells the same story. I feel he has not told us anywhere near all of what happened to him during his April, 1973 abduction. I hope that at a future time he will open up to me and share all that he remembers. We have introduced Oscar to a hypnotist, but at this time he does not have the trust necessary to allow those events stored in his subconscious to come to the conscious level. Oscar does not think that the average human has the necessary discernment to comprehend the true facts here. He feels the truth would simply confuse and frighten the majority of humanity. Oscar is not concerned about the future of the Earth, as a planet, being destroyed. He feels these Beings who appear in our sky's are in total control of the major events which take place on this Earth. He does not think they will sit idly by and let us destroy this beautiful planet in a nuclear holocaust. As he says: "They could shut down anything on this Earth that would move...that's mechanical ...to make war. If they want to shut it down, it'll stop! It'll cease!" If that is the case, if there are Beings who care enough about the Earth and/or its inhabitants, or both, then maybe there is a future for us after all. This is not the end of Oscar's story, it's only the beginning. --- ---------END OF ARTICLE ------------------------------------------ -- -* Don Allen *- InterNet: dona@bilver.UUCP // Amiga..for the best of us. USnail: 1818G Landing Dr, Sanford Fl 32771 \X/ Why use anything else? :-) UUCP: ..uunet!tarpit!bilver!vicstoy!dona 0110 0110 0110 Just say NO! Illuminati < MJ-12|Greys|TLC|CFR|FED|Bilderbergs > UN = "New World Order" Article: 1095 of alt.alien.visitors Path: ns-mx!uunet!comp.vuw.ac.nz!am.dsir.govt.nz!marcamd!mercury!kcbbs!kc From: Robert_Sutton@kcbbs.gen.nz (Robert Sutton) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: ROSWELL Message-ID: <1991Jul5.184558.6990@kcbbs.gen.nz> Date: 5 Jul 91 18:45:58 GMT Lines: 21 Organisation: Kappa Crucis Unix BBS, Auckland, New Zealand --------Has anyone read the new book about The Roswell Incident by the bod on CNN Larry King on July 2 that claims the old explanation that the crashed object was a radar target (which Phillip Klass on Larry King said he thought it was) is bogus that it was just the cover the military gave the curious & the debris went from the crash site in Corona NM 75 miles NW of Roswell on a B29 to Wright Patterson AFB which includes alien bodies & thier remain under top security (maybe even unto the Defense Secretary himself). Asto why all has not been revealed the author said orginally the military at 1st didnt know what to make of it & then later after studying reports etc such as a 1961 Burroughs Institute study for NASA concluded the public wasnt ready to be told all (or it seems anything) I wonder if theystudied only the general govt public as if was a true reflection of public sentiment it seems the times they really are a changing:Maybe **************************** ARE THOSE ETOI SPACESHIPS*** REALLY SHY OR ARE THEY JUST* WAITING TO SEAL THE ROYALTY* DEAL************************ Article: 1096 of alt.alien.visitors Path: ns-mx!uunet!bonnie.concordia.ca!ccu.umanitoba.ca!bison!sys6626!inqmind!themax!system From: system@themax.bison.mb.ca (Max Vernon) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Mars face. Message-ID: <3RVi51w164w@themax.bison.mb.ca> Date: 3 Jul 91 18:56:01 GMT References: <1991Jul02.030853.10642@lynx.CS.ORST.EDU> Organization: The Max BBS, private! Lines: 81 Chris Wood Writes..... > I have lost access to many of these articles the last week or so, so I > do not know if this article is in responce to mine... I'll assume it is. > I'm not saying that they would have become extinct, just that they may > have taken a precaution to ensure that a message to another intelligent > lifeform would exist in CASE they should become extinct. Maybe that does > not have anything to do with it at all, perhaps the purpose of the face > is just to ensure that we will know of other intelligent beings when we > were both technologicly capable of it and when we are emotionally ready for > it. We current have the technology. A face also provides an amount of doubt > which would ease us into the awareness of their existance. I really don't > think it would be wise to just march right into a civilization and > anounce your presence. It would be more wise to slowly increase awareness > of your existance and test them before you interact with them. If I were > in their place, I would want to slowly give them a few clues to our > existance and wait for them to become ready to accept us. Their 'readiness' > may be determined by how the general public reacts to the thought of > our presence if the roles were reveresed (whether the people fear us, welcome > us, or how well educated they are of us through rumours). I can't speak for anyone else but as far as I am concerned I would much prefer to know just exactly where, when, why and for how long a prospective alien race has known about my existence. In order to be at all fair to both parties the relationship must be completely open. If we found out through our own ability that some extraterrestrial has been looking in on us for a millenium but we have never known about it before, we would be much more likely to suspect bad intentions purely because of human fear of the unknown. Look at what's happening right here on our own world...with USSR now becoming a freer and more western type culture the west is begining to trust the USSR, and therefore our relationship is blosoming at a far faster rate than ever before! The same applies to any ET's out there! > Anyway, back to the possibility of their extinction... who knows why > they may have become extinct, perhaps they have been at war with other alien > races that are perhaps even more advanced than they are. Look at us, we still > possibly face extinction should a large scale nuclear war take place, a more > primitive race might think that we are beyond extinction because of all > our wonderful technology, but the truth is we very much have our limitations. > Sure, all of this is just speculation, but that's all we have in this > situation and sometimes that's what's needed to make progress. > You mentioned that they could have left a message in the form of a model > of a human skeleton, which I admit would be a good idea, but what if that > were the situation? Then someone would likely come up with the argument > asking why they didn't simply leave a face? The point is is that if it was > created by intelligent life, there are a number of ways they COULD have done > it, and it makes no sence to keep coming up with arguments to conform to > our beliefs. You think a skeleton would be better suited, I think a face is > best suited... perhaps they (if 'they' exist) for some reason or another > decided that a face would be better... that's not saying that other methods > of communication weren't considered. > Ok...I can see your point about face or skeleton, skeleton or face, but what I am saying is why leave something so bewildering? Does this type of discussion really better our chances of making communication with another race? Or wouldn't it be better to setup the communication first then start talking about whether or not to use it. I mean communication is and should always be a "two way street". Another good explanation for the face is it could be just something thrown in to send us of on a wild goose chase....AH I know what...have you Zeta Greys been screwing with the surface of mars again??? dammit! > -- > +---------------------------+----------------------------------------------+ > | Chris Wood | "If you can't convince them, confuse them." | > | woodc@jacobs.cs.orst.edu | -unknown | > +---------------------------+----------------------------------------------+ ^^^^ that is probably not unknown, just another ploy thought up by...MY GOD Chris Woods must be a Zeta Grey Himself and he is really planning an attack on society next sunday! OH NO!!! Just kidding Chris...although that saying is very interesting! :-) later! _____________________________________________________________________________ The Max BBS, private! Internet Email:system@themax.bison.mb.ca Combat Dogmatism, Whether of the Right or the Left. _____________________________________________________________________________ Article: 1097 of alt.alien.visitors Path: ns-mx!uunet!decwrl!csus.edu!ucdavis!csusac!cindy!fish From: fish@ecst.csuchico.edu (Kevin Haddock) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Mars face discussion Summary: just joined, have info Keywords: erosion NASA canals Mars pyramids Message-ID: <1991Jul05.035221.5123@ecst.csuchico.edu> Date: 5 Jul 91 03:52:21 GMT References: <2130@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de> Sender: news@ecst.csuchico.edu (no news is good news) Distribution: alt.alien.visitors Organization: California State University, Chico Lines: 30 Nntp-Posting-Host: cscihp.ecst.csuchico.edu In article <2130@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de> p581mao@mpirbn.UUCP (Martin Ott) writes: > >was modeled by wind and sand-storms. The appearance of the >stone was due to additional light effects. As I saw lots of >`mesa`-mountains last week in the southwest of USA, I never had the idea >that they probably were shaped by our `ancestors` from other planets. > >The face-stone photographed 1 hour later would probably look >as any other stone up there. > >regards >Martin I just started following this group so I wanted to ask first, I have some info relating to why some of the experts don't think the above is the case and to some unusual statements from NASA (if not comical) about why they don't want to expore it furthur. Also I don't know if it was mentioned before but there also appear to be pyramids and some kind of round structure that could appear to be a trade center or ampatheater (there also are some geometrically shaped lines around this structure giving it the appearance of being some center of activity with possibly roads or paths leading to it). Another interesting point are the early (1700-1800's) observations of Mars where there appeared to be movement of the canals (like possibly they were being re-engineered on the fly). Early observers speculated that there was a culture on Mars that was somehow losing it's water and working feverently to put what little was left to good use. I know this is all HIGHLY speculative but what the heck! (also you can hold your flames, and I hope they burn your hands!) Article: 1099 of alt.alien.visitors Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uwm.edu!csd4.csd.uwm.edu!j0nez From: j0nez@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (John William Bowman) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Mars Face. Message-ID: <13819@uwm.edu> Date: 5 Jul 91 11:24:08 GMT Sender: news@uwm.edu Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee Lines: 10 Originator: j0nez@csd4.csd.uwm.edu This thread just peaked my interest.... I (multitasking, of course), just viewed my HAM copy (which is very good) of this pic, and it seems to me that there might be something more than 'natural' occurring on Mars (not_natural_, as in wind storms, etc, of course) as far as this rock formation is concerned. If anyone is without this picture, please mail me, and I'll send it to you. It's worth the looksee. If too many requests, I'll upload it to an appropriate FTP site for downloading. You would be informed, of course. -John "Always watching the skies" Bowman Article: 1102 of alt.alien.visitors Path: ns-mx!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!think.com!linus!linus!mwvm.mitre.org!M14494 From: M14494@mwvm.mitre.org Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: crop circles again Message-ID: <1991Jul5.152708.12507@linus.mitre.org> Date: 5 Jul 91 15:21:25 GMT Sender: news@linus.mitre.org (News Service) Organization: The MITRE Corporation, McLean VA 22102 Lines: 31 Nntp-Posting-Host: mwvm.mitre.org A few weeks ago I heard a radio interview with the author of a new book on the crop circles. He (name escapes me) is a retired engineer who has been investigating the circles for the past 10 years or so. Key points: nobody knows what is causing them; they are getting much more numerious and complex; no attempts at hoaxing have been successful; x-ray microscope examination of the plants reveals changes in basic cell structure of affected plants; incidences of power surges and tv camera burn-out within the circles have been recorded. This guy seems quite scientific in his outlook, and mentioned that on a night when they stayed up waiting for a circle to form, one did form literally right under their noses, and they saw and heard nothing! When they saw the circle in the field below them at first light, it was a complete surprise to them. If any part of this is true, strange things are afoot... ! ------------------------- Original Article ------------------------- Xref: linus sci.skeptic:12390 alt.alien.visitors:986 Path: linus!linus!think.com!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov From: shoup@netcom.COM (Richard Shoup) Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.alien.visitors Subject: crop circles again Keywords: crop circles Message-ID: <1991Jul1.172640.8131@netcom.COM> Date: 1 Jul 91 17:26:40 GMT Organization: netcom Lines: 7 Two quick questions: 1. Have there been any new interesting circles yet this summer? How about some first-hand reports? Any organized investigation? 2. Has anyone yet devised any technique for hoaxing the circles which is convincing? If so, what is it and do observers agree? Article 1103 of alt.alien.visitors From: ww10+@andrew.cmu.edu (William Conrad Wojciechowski) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Aliens Newsletter Message-ID: X-Approximate-Date: Sat, 20 Jul 91 21:51:12 -0500 Lines: 42 I am starting a newsletter/journal of encounters sightings etc. Any story or information, whether it is a personal account or not, will be published. Fiction is allowed, but will be in a special section so as to separate the truth from fantasy. The author's name will be given credit in the newsletter for their article. Frequency of journals sent out will be directly related to the number of articles received. Pictures can also be sent. If you are interested in having your story, account or information put in the newsletter or just want a subscription follow these instructions. Subscriptions last one year. 1) Have your paper put in neat printing or have it typed. 2) Indicate whether or not the aritcle is non-fiction or fiction 3) Be sure to include your name, address, and telephone number. Telephone is optional 4) Include $15 for a subscription or $5 to only have an article published. Checks or money orders are preferred for your benefit, but cash will be accepted. Add $2 to each cost if out of the United States. 5) $5 for the first article and $2 for each additional article that is sent in anytime in the future. 6) If you only want your article published you will be sent a copy of the journal your article is published in. 6) For example, if you want a subscription and your first article published send $20 7) Send it to William C Wojciechowski 5033 Forbes Avenue Pittsburgh PA 15213 6) If you have questions call 412-268-5355 after 5pm EST, send email, or write. Email is the fastest and most reliable. Article: 1104 of alt.alien.visitors Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!ukc!icdoc!ibmassc!rob From: rob@aixssc.ibm.co.uk (Robert Trevelyan) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Crop Circles in the UK Keywords: Latest from the UK Vigils Message-ID: <1991Jul05.143357.5345@aixssc.ibm.co.uk> Date: 5 Jul 91 14:33:57 GMT Sender: rob@aixssc.ibm.co.uk (Robert Trevelyan) Followup-To: Robert Trevelyan ( CCCS member ) Organization: IBM AIX Systems Support Centre, UK. Lines: 57 Using banks of expensive camera and infra-red equipment to keep a 24-hr watch on a field below Morgan's Hill where a magnificent quadruple-ringed Circle and a Celtic Cross appeared respectively on June 1 and July 5 1990, a Team of crop watchers have witnessed something strange . In addition to the video equipment they have a powerful directional microphone which digitally records all sound in the range 2 to 20000 Hz, i.e. infra-sound, audible sound and some ultra-sound. The night of June 26/27 was cloudy and rainy and looked most unpromising. At about 3 a.m. some mist was in evidence and this appeared to be thickest right over the field being observed. It was decided to keep the cameras and infra-red gear running just in case it lifted and the directional microphone continued to record. At 5.45 a.m., an hour after dawn, the mist began to slowly clear. The pall of mist over the field under observation was the last to dissipate and, when it did, the cameramen could just see markings in the crop. They rushed down the hill to seal off entry to the field in which they could now see with binoculars a large dumb-bell pictogram. Close inspection showed no signs of human entry or footsteps in the wet soil at entry points to the field. A playback of the tapes from the directional microphone was found to be completely blank at all recorded frequencies. One of the cameramen who was first into the dumb-bell walked a long way along a tractor line to get to the the formation without damaging the standing crop. His trousers were soaked by the wet crop and his boots covered in mud. The circles were perfectly swirled with the plants bent but unbroken. There was no sign of foot-steps or muddy trampling in the circles. At 6 p.m the previous evening a military helicopter had flown across and hovered for a few minutes over the spot where the pictogram subsequently formed. Whether or not this was coincidental we have no way of telling. There are certainly rumours that the military have ways of detecting where and when Circles will form. Dr Meaden and his 19 Japanese scientists also encamped on Morgan's Hill were thought to have had that field under observation as well. But they are not saying what they made of this cosmic conjuring trick. Dr M only ever says "This entirely confirms my plasma vortex theory" whenever a new pictogram appears. He has on the hill some radar device, and we hear a rumour that this picked up some object the other night (not necessarliy the night of the 26/27th) which was definitely not an aircraft. The cry went up "It's a plasma vortex" and they all rushed to look for it. But nothing visible was seen. What Dr M calls a plasma vortex is what most other people call a UFO. This does not mean for a moment that it is necessarily a metallic spacecraft flown by aliens as the tabloid newspapers and Hollywood would have us believe. Nor for that that matter does calling it a plasma vortex mean that scientists have the slightest idea what it is or where it comes from. Meaden has never offered any equations, rotational velocities, or any credible explanation for how the mythical plasma vortex is formed. He might just as well call it a UFO like everyone else. No exact details of sizes of dimensions yet but I will be in-touch. Otherwise the latest crop circles seem to be dumbbells ,as a weight training dumbbell , with rings ,paths and circles attached .They look remarkably like insects as they have a paths leading from one of the circles at about 45 degrees with small circles at the end (antannae) . Article: 1106 of alt.alien.visitors Path: ns-mx!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!rice!uw-beaver!milton!sumax!polari!rwing!eskimo!nanook From: nanook@eskimo.celestial.com (Robert Dinse) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Drive System & Navigation Keywords: Power, Navigation Message-ID: <804@eskimo.celestial.com> Date: 5 Jul 91 19:41:29 GMT Organization: ESKIMO NORTH (206) 367-3837 SEATTLE WA. Lines: 27 This is a call to all of those who might have had an abduction experience (and remember it) or perhaps received information psychically. (or if there are alien visitors out there reading this...) I am interested in the mechanical aspects of the crafts, the power source, how the drive system works, is it capable of faster than light travel and if so how this is achieved, and how navigation is handled. I am interested in any details you can provide, even if it's just physical details of the inside or outside of the craft that might give a clue or two as to how it works. I am interested in both how navigation to a particular destination is handled, as well as collision avoidance, especially for faster-than-light travel (assuming they >do< have the technology to make it possible). If you request confidentiality, I will keep your name, and even the information if you wish, confidential. Any related information would be appreciated (how is the information necessary to navigation stored, communicated, etc). Thank you in advance. nanook@eskimo.celestial.com Article 1107 of alt.alien.visitors Path: ns-mx!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!ysub!psuvm!cunyvm!i25lg From: I25LG@CUNYVM.BITNET Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: MARS FACE -the Earth Connection Message-ID: <91186.161406I25LG@CUNYVM.BITNET> Date: 5 Jul 91 20:14:05 GMT References: <1991Jun14.140729.25097@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk> <1991Jun17.142242.25594@mailer.cc.fsu.edu> <1991Jun19.205145.3383@odin.corp.sgi.com> Distribution: usa Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center Lines: 7 Well, talking about nazca comes to mind what some peruvian proffesor told me ones. He was working on these lines for a long time. He came up with the theory that those lines were a kind of calendar for those people. They had one animal for a different season of the year. I hope this info will interest you. I don't remember what his name was but, He was a very well known person in the study of those lines in Peru. Harold Article: 2078 of alt.paranormal Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!unix.cis.pitt.edu!dsinc!bagate!cbmvax!amix!vanth!jms From: jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal,alt.stupidity,alt.flame Subject: Re: Advertising (was: Re: INFO: Application To Join C.A.U.S.) Message-ID: Date: 5 Jul 91 04:00:25 GMT References: <1991Jun22.090530.8469@agora.rain.com> Followup-To: alt.flame Organization: The Search For TERRESTRIAL Intelligence Lines: 20 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:1108 alt.paranormal:2078 alt.stupidity:2405 alt.flame:26628 OK gang, I've just picked up alt.alien.visitors so I missed most of the Allen-vs-whoever flamage. But from what I've seen, I just want to say that if Mr. Allen wants to post information about joining CAUS, I certainly agree with him that he's doing it as a SERVICE for INFORMATIONAL PURPOSES and therefore it DOESN'T constitute the dreaded "use of the net for commercial purposes." Hell, we have comp.sys.amiga.announce and comp.sys.amiga.reviews for just this sort of thing (albeit on a different topic of course) and I've never heard anybody bitch about *those* constituting commercial use of the net. They're for doing just what Mr. Allen was apparently doing -- informing the public that something exists and giving them information on how to pursue it if they wish. Followups to alt.flame, where bullshit like this argument belongs and where I won't have to read it, or pay for it. -- * From the disk of: | jms@vanth.uucp | "Let's become Jim Shaffer, Jr. | amix.commodore.com!vanth!jms | alive again." 37 Brook Street | uunet!cbmvax!amix!vanth!jms | Montgomery, PA 17752 | 72750.2335@compuserve.com | --Yes Article: 1112 of alt.alien.visitors Path: ns-mx!uunet!munnari.oz.au!yoyo.aarnet.edu.au!sirius.ucs.adelaide.edu.au!ijameson From: ijameson@physics.adelaide.edu.au (Iain Jameson) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Field Circles Message-ID: <3955@sirius.ucs.adelaide.edu.au> Date: 8 Jul 91 04:40:15 GMT Sender: news@ucs.adelaide.edu.au Reply-To: ijameson@adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au.oz.au (Iain Jameson) Organization: Department of Physics, University of Adelaide, South Australia Lines: 8 Nntp-Posting-Host: adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au According to a news item I just heard, "Field Circles" have been produced in the laboratory. It was done in Japan using plasma fireballs (ionized air). Of course this will have to be confirmed and duplicated. But we all know enough about science to realise this. Iain. Article: 1114 of alt.alien.visitors Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!crdgw1!ge-dab!tarpit!bilver!dona From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Crop Circles in the UK Keywords: Latest from the UK Vigils Message-ID: <1991Jul8.030415.25874@bilver.uucp> Date: 8 Jul 91 03:04:15 GMT References: <1991Jul05.143357.5345@aixssc.ibm.co.uk> Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL Lines: 23 In article <1991Jul05.143357.5345@aixssc.ibm.co.uk> rob@aixssc.ibm.co.uk (Robert Trevelyan) writes: >Using banks of expensive camera and infra-red equipment to keep a 24-hr >watch on a field below Morgan's Hill where a magnificent quadruple-ringed >Circle and a Celtic Cross appeared respectively on June 1 and July 5 1990, >a Team of crop watchers have witnessed something strange . [ Rest deleted ] Thanks much for posting that, Robert :-) BTW...In "Circular Evidence", there's some really beautiful plates of these "plasma vortex" (coughh..ahem) circles. Please keep any more reports coming in! Don -- -* Don Allen *- InterNet: dona@bilver.UUCP // Amiga..for the best of us. USnail: 1818G Landing Dr, Sanford Fl 32771 \X/ Why use anything else? :-) UUCP: ..uunet!tarpit!bilver!vicstoy!dona 0110 0110 0110 Just say NO! Illuminati < MJ-12|Greys|TLC|CFR|FED|Bilderbergs > UN = "New World Order" Article: 1115 of alt.alien.visitors Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!crdgw1!ge-dab!tarpit!bilver!dona From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Mars Face. Message-ID: <1991Jul8.031032.25976@bilver.uucp> Date: 8 Jul 91 03:10:32 GMT References: <13819@uwm.edu> Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL Lines: 27 In article <13819@uwm.edu> j0nez@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (John William Bowman) writes: >This thread just peaked my interest.... I (multitasking, of course), >just viewed my HAM copy (which is very good) of this pic, and it seems >to me that there might be something more than 'natural' occurring on >Mars (not_natural_, as in wind storms, etc, of course) as far as this rock >formation is concerned. If anyone is without this picture, please >mail me, and I'll send it to you. It's worth the looksee. If too many >requests, I'll upload it to an appropriate FTP site for downloading. >You would be informed, of course. > >-John "Always watching the skies" Bowman Thanks for the offer of uploading/FTP of the Mars Face pic, but is has made it here as a uuencoded gif. I have kept the uuencoded original so it could be re-posted again at a later time. I also have the HAM picture of the file that I think you're alluding to. It's real nice. I will also uuencode/uusplit this HAM and keep it for posting both here and in alt.bin*.pic* as well. Don -- -* Don Allen *- InterNet: dona@bilver.UUCP // Amiga..for the best of us. USnail: 1818G Landing Dr, Sanford Fl 32771 \X/ Why use anything else? :-) UUCP: ..uunet!tarpit!bilver!vicstoy!dona 0110 0110 0110 Just say NO! Illuminati < MJ-12|Greys|TLC|CFR|FED|Bilderbergs > UN = "New World Order" Article: 1117 of alt.alien.visitors Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!ukc!icdoc!ibmassc!rob From: rob@aixssc.ibm.co.uk (Robert Trevelyan) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Crop Circles in the UK Message-ID: <1991Jul08.091937.22497@aixssc.ibm.co.uk> Date: 8 Jul 91 09:19:37 GMT Sender: @aixssc.ibm.co.uk Organization: AIX Systems Support Centre, UK. Lines: 83 Originator: rob@eeyore.aixssc.uk.ibm.com Dick, I have been interested/involved in crop circles for about two years and was very fortunate last year to find the first pictogram in a field in Chilcomb , Winchester . This was the first crop circle not be of the normal circle/ring form as it had boxes and paths . Through this and my interest in the phenomenon I have made aquaintances with the leading circle investigators and even got a mention in a few books on the subject. I am also a member of CPR ( Circles Phenomnon Research - Pat Delgado and Colin Andrews ) and CCCS ( Centre for Crop Circle Studies ) . I live in an area that is about 15 minutes from Winchester and about 45 minutes from Silbury Hill in Wiltshire , these are the most popular areas for crop circles and I have been in about 50 or so or them over the last year or two . The team that witnessed the crop circle I previously mentioned on Morgans Hill , Wiltshire was run by ex BBC Producer and now Director of Circle Vision , circles PR company ? ,and a team of cameramen . They are the same team that assisted Delgado and Andrews on Operation Blackbird in 1990 , remmember the hoax. Anyway currently in that area at the moment are three independant watches arranged by Dr. Meaden ( The vortex man ) called Operation Blue Hill , CCCS called Operation Sirius and a CPR watch called Operation Nightingale . I found out about this as I have a friend that is the Director of field research for CCCS and he also works for the same company as I do. As he lives in a different part of the UK than I do it allows us to keep in touch of all areas of southern England . I also receive information from visiting sites that are known circle areas and in addition to that receive details via a circle network via the mail . If you are interested in joining this let me know and I will send you the address to write to . This years formations seem to be based on a new formation which has been termed "insectograms" as they have paths and circles that look like antennae . I believe there has been about 100+ circles this year to date but there has also been a great many hoaxes . A hoax can be perpetrated as it is not dousable and is very often rough at its edges . This is very much dependant on the crop it is created in as barly created a rougher looking formation but if it douses as well it point toward non-hoax. Hoaxed circles look and feel like hoaxes as they are very rough , the crop is always broken not layed down and happens when there are tramlines to the field, the lines the tractors wheels create . I visited the lecture given by Terence Meaden on Plasma Vortex last year and totally agree with you that the guy is slightly off the track where it comes to most crop circles. I do believe that simple circles can be created by his plasma vortex theory if there is a hill nearby and if the weather is correct for this but as for this being the answer I think he is crazy . How can a spiraling vortex of charged air/dust particles create boxes , paths or even rings , let alone triangles that were seen last year. Anyway I have just received a note about a new crop circle in the field where last years eighth of a mile pictogram appeared at Alton Barnes, Wiltshire . I will post details of this to the news as soon as I have read it . Be in touch , Robert > >Thanks for the great info. Can you say who the team is and how you >know about this? How many crop circles have there been previously >this season? Any new shapes? > >Plasma vortex, my arse. This looks like something much more interesting. >Please post any and all new info you can. > >Best regards, > >Dick Shoup >shoup@netcom.com > > -- Robert Trevelyan UKnet: rob@aixssc.ibm.co.uk AIX Communications VNET: TREVELR at BASVM2 Voice: +44-(0)256-56144 Article: 1119 of alt.alien.visitors Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!ukc!icdoc!ibmassc!rob From: rob@aixssc.ibm.co.uk (Robert Trevelyan) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Crop Circles ( screwed the last one up ) Message-ID: <1991Jul08.101556.15379@aixssc.ibm.co.uk> Date: 8 Jul 91 10:15:56 GMT Sender: @aixssc.ibm.co.uk Organization: AIX Systems Support Centre, UK. Lines: 63 Originator: rob@eeyore.aixssc.uk.ibm.com On Tuesday July 2 the main attraction of the Circle season occurred just where it was expected at Alton Barnes, Wiltshire. Within 200 yards of the position of last year's giant double dumb-bell pictogram . This is of similar size to the huge pictogram of 1990 . This new formation lies in a great expanse of green wheat . The formation is about 120 yards long and consists of a large ringed circle with long narrow passages running to a plain circle at one end and a smaller ring, with a spur beyond, at the other. Two 15 ft circles, like eyes, lie to one side of the central avenue level with the midpoints of the connecting passages and equi- distant from them. Already dozens of visitors were converging on the site to marvel at the new wonder where so many people had caught circles fever in 1990. Farmer Tim Carson is charging $1 entry and will probably exceed his last year's take of an estimated $8000 (pounds sterling). Farmhand Malcolm Enery described how he had been woken by a loud roaring noise at 1.30 a.m. that night. He thought at first that a C-130 Hercules from RAF Lyneham was flying over at rooftop level, but could see nothing through his window. Other residents of Alton Barnes were woken by a similar roar. Only when mist over East Field had cleared at 7 a.m. could the new pictogram be seen. It lies barely 800 yards from the tiny village. Today (Friday 5-7-91 ) a further formation, a smaller dumb-bell accompanied by several additional circles, has appeared in the same field just within a few hundred yards. Again these circles were initially shrouded by unseasonal mist. Something quite extraordinary appears to be happening at Alton Barnes and this is quite possibly not unconnected with the worldwide interest that was shown in the magnificent circles which appeared there last year. Last Sunday a large new pictogram appeared at Newton St Loe just two miles west of Bath. This greatly resembled the Alton Barnes pictogram of 1990, and once more its appearance was accompanied by strange lights seen in the sky and a roaring noise according to many people in the outskirts of the city. I hope to try to talk to some of these people and to piece together events surrounding this visitation. Before this year only one small crop circle had ever been reported in this area between Bristol and Bath. The Bath pictogram has a large asymmetric "key" and also the ringed "signature circle" in exactly the same relative position as the Wiltshire pictograms of last year. These distinctive features, and the fact that "keys" or "claws" have been seen in two other smaller formations in Avon and Somerset seems to show that the 1990 Wiltshire "circlemakers" have moved west. Equally the large symmetrical pictograms now appearing in Wiltshire closely resemble the style of those that appeared near Winchester in Hampshire last year, only they are somewhat larger, and only one has got "boxes". Again it looks as if the Hampshire circlemakers moved west. As for Hampshire, the 1991 pictograms so far are all "insectograms", immensely elaborate asymmetric formations with twin "antennae" and a peculiar ladder-like feature with a variable number of rungs at the opposite end. It has already been optimistically suggested that the "rungs" might represent the protein molecules in the double helix of DNA. Such is the articulateness of the new formations that this kind of speculation is no longer viewed with ridicule. I hope to visit this new one at Alton Barnes this week so will be in touch about this and any more in the area . Article: 1126 of alt.alien.visitors Path: ns-mx!uunet!cbmvax!amix!vanth!jms From: jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: been visited? Message-ID: Date: 8 Jul 91 04:08:31 GMT References: <8988@awdprime.UUCP> <1991Jul03.163719.27447@ariel.unm.edu> Organization: The Search For TERRESTRIAL Intelligence Lines: 34 In article <1991Jul03.163719.27447@ariel.unm.edu> omega@triton.unm.edu (--==[ Charlie ]==--) writes: >In article <8988@awdprime.UUCP> craigb@awdprime.austin.ibm.com writes: >> >> ..... by grays or >> nords or whatever? .... > >Net readers: I have been watching this group for a couple weeks >now and I find it interesting .... but I still am not sure of some >of your terminology .... what is a gray and what is a nord .... A grey is a short grey alien of the type which most frequently abduct people. They're often considered to be evil. They're allegedly from one of the planets orbiting Zeta Reticuli, and some people maintain that there are two slightly different species of them -- a taller species with noses which are in control, and a shorter species with no noses which work for the taller ones. A Nord(ic) or a Blond or a Tall is a benevolent alien which again is named for its appearance. I can't remember what planet they're from. They've been reported to be willing to reveal information about the Greys' plans for mankind, but not to actually intervene on our behalf. Some people say there's an ongoing war between them and the Greys. Sometimes the Nords are channeled rather than physically manifesting themselves. >Is there a type of "dictionary of alien terms" around anywhere ? Not to the best of my knowledge, but we should start one! A sort of FAQL for this newsgroup. -- * From the disk of: | jms@vanth.uucp | "Let's become Jim Shaffer, Jr. | amix.commodore.com!vanth!jms | alive again." 37 Brook Street | uunet!cbmvax!amix!vanth!jms | Montgomery, PA 17752 | 72750.2335@compuserve.com | --Yes Article: 1133 of alt.alien.visitors Path: ns-mx!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!utgpu!watserv1!watcgl!gawheckm From: gawheckm@watcgl.waterloo.edu (George Heckman) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: been visited? Message-ID: <1991Jul9.170407.28846@watcgl.waterloo.edu> Date: 9 Jul 91 17:04:07 GMT References: <8988@awdprime.UUCP> <1991Jul03.163719.27447@ariel.unm.edu> Organization: University of Waterloo Lines: 32 jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer) writes: >omega@triton.unm.edu (--==[ Charlie ]==--) writes: >> >>Net readers: I have been watching this group for a couple weeks >>now and I find it interesting .... but I still am not sure of some >>of your terminology .... what is a gray and what is a nord .... > >A grey is a short grey alien of the type which most frequently abduct >people. They're often considered to be evil. They're allegedly from one of >the planets orbiting Zeta Reticuli, and some people maintain that there are >two slightly different species of them -- a taller species with noses which >are in control, and a shorter species with no noses which work for >the taller ones. How can I identify a nose in control? Is it bristling with probes and antennas? Does it have a bump where the control centre is hidden? >A Nord(ic) or a Blond or a Tall is a benevolent alien which again is named >for its appearance. I can't remember what planet they're from. They've >been reported to be willing to reveal information about the Greys' plans >for mankind, but not to actually intervene on our behalf. Some people say >there's an ongoing war between them and the Greys. Sometimes the Nords are >channeled rather than physically manifesting themselves. The nords are disguised as a hockey team based in Quebec City. This disguise is wearing thin, as only real earthlings can play hockey properly, and the Nords' record is too lousy to result solely from terrestrial causes. -- George A. Heckman "Relax. Don't worry. Dept. of Computer Science Have a homebrew!" University of Waterloo - Charlie Papazian, "The Ontario, Canada, N2L 3G1 Complete Joy of Home Brewing" Article: 1136 of alt.alien.visitors Path: ns-mx!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!apollo!mcn From: mcn@apollo.hp.com (Michael McNulty) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Ed Walters Keywords: On Tuesday July 2 the main attraction of the Circle season occurred This new formation lies in a great expanse of green wheat . The formation Farmhand Malcolm Enery described how he had been woken by a loud roaring Today (Friday 5-7-9 Message-ID: <1991Jul9.191337.1024@apollo.hp.com> Date: 9 Jul 91 19:13:37 GMT References: <1991Jul08.100655.20929@aixssc.ibm.co.uk> Sender: netnews@apollo.hp.com (USENET posting account) Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Apollo Division - Chelmsford, MA Lines: 38 Nntp-Posting-Host: roddy.ch.apollo.hp.com Hi, I have been reading this newsgroup for a little while, but this is my first posting to it. I have a feeling that I may be bringing up an already-discussed issue, but I'm still interested in it. I hope it doesn't bore anyone if it is repetitive. What's the story with Ed Walters? He's the guy who has taken about 40 really great pictures of what he claims are space crafts in Gulf Breeze, Florida. He, along with is wife Frances, wrote a book and did the lecture and TV talk show circuits. By the end of his book, he was hinting that he has vague recollections of perhaps, maybe, sort of having been abducted or in contact with aliens as a child and that he was in contact with Budd Hopkins and had undergone hypnosis. He said that he wasn't ready to publicly discuss the results of his hypnosis sessions yet, though. I noticed in a friend's either CUFO or MUFON magazine (whichever one of them was sort of originally backing Ed for awhile), that he claimed to have later discovered a crop circle in his neighborhood. The last thing I heard of him, he was defending himself against charges that models of the crafts were found in his house after he moved. My criticism (an odd one, I'll admit) is that his pictures are almost TOO good. It's just hard for me to believe that he got pictures this good and that up close. I have a feeling that if they were legit, someone (AP, New York Times) would be paying a little more attention to him. What do most people think of him? Is he respected or is he considered a pretty good hoaxer who just hasn't been caught yet? Or has he been caught and I missed it? My feeling is that he started this off as a joke and it ballooned out of his control until he couldn't contain it anymore and he had to go along with it or he'd look foolish. How is he looked upon by others? Mike McNulty From: JOHNFW@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Date: 9 Jul 91 20:15:33 GMT Organization: Stanford Linear Accelerator Center Message-ID: <91190.121533JOHNFW@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal Lines: 4 I was watching last week and saw the information about the organization called CAUS that prints articles about people's experiences with UFO's but I did't get the address. Will someone plese let me know what it is? Thanks. Article: 1139 of alt.alien.visitors Path: ns-mx!uunet!munnari.oz.au!jabaru!tanus!00195 From: 00195@tanus.oz.au (Brian Evans) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: About Roswell and the Govt. Coverup Message-ID: <316@jabaru.oz.au> Date: 10 Jul 91 02:36:03 GMT Sender: news@jabaru.oz.au Organization: People-Net [tanus], Melbourne, Australia Lines: 33 johnr@systech.bjorn.COM (John Reed) writes: >I am not an expert in UFO-ology (or whatever it's called), but to >me, as a layman, the evidence seems overwhelming that a crash happened >at Roswell, and UFO's are definitely for real. > >The frustrating part for me is that all of the facts have been covered up. >Just what is the truth? What the f*** is going on? > >If a crash occured at Roswell, and aliens were recovered, then to me, >this would be the most significant event that has occurred in all of >human history. Does anyone else agree with this viewpoint?? I would also have to agree that based on fact a craft did crash at Roswell back in 1947. There has been a lot of written information (third party) detailing investigations regarding this incident. A new book is about to be released on the Roswell incident which discloses some fantastic facts about the incident. The authors have spent a considerable amount of time researching the incident and in light of the new evidence and information contained in the book (providing it is correct) I am convinced that an alien craft DID crash at Roswell. Your viewpoint regarding an important event in history is one I'm sure is held by many people who take an interest in this subject. As a follow on, I can only sit and wonder what information has been gained from the research the US government would have conducted on the aliens and their crashed ship. What additional information could the US government be withholding about further incidents of this type since 1947? Brian UUCP: {munnari}!jabaru!anthos!tanus!00195 INET: 00195@tanus.oz.au Article: 1140 of alt.alien.visitors Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!samsung!spool.mu.edu!cs.umn.edu!talon!orstcs!jacobs.CS.ORST.EDU!woodc From: woodc@jacobs.CS.ORST.EDU (Chris Wood) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: That Face on Mars!!! Message-ID: <1991Jul10.110634.16810@lynx.CS.ORST.EDU> Date: 10 Jul 91 11:06:34 GMT References: Sender: @lynx.CS.ORST.EDU Distribution: alt Organization: Oregon State University, CS Dept. Lines: 49 Nntp-Posting-Host: jacobs.cs.orst.edu In article kkorhon1@vipunen.hut.fi (Kimmo 'Kimbe' Korhonen) writes: > >I am just asking why! >Why should that face be meant for us humans? (I mean as an attempt to >communicate) >Isn't it true that you Americans have huge faces sculptured in some >mountain? (Presidential faces I mean) >Maybe - just maybe - that face on Mars was made to honour some leader >of an alien race! (If there exists or have existed one such alien race) > > >Don't loose ya hope!!! >-- > ............................ ............................ > : Flow my tears, : : E-mail: : > : said the policeman ! : : kkorhon1@vipunen.hut.fi : > :..........................: :..........................: I would like to point out that all of the faces that have been carved into stone (or whatever) on Earth are all facing a horizontal direction (as far as I know), we have no 'faces' on Earth that face straight up. Everyone keeps asking 'why they would communicate this way instead of with means that would cause no doubt about their existance' and 'why they do not simply come forth and make their precence known rather than hiding'. I have already given my opinion about the 'why this... why that' type questions, but I'll post them again briefly. As I said before, the so called 'face on Mars' might not have any communicative value other than to simply state that 'we are here and we know of your existance'. Why they might have chosen to put the structure on Mars instead of the moon or other planets is unknown, you can go on and on asking a whole series of 'WHY' questions, but that doesn't prove or disprove anything, you can only speculate on things like this. Someone in the future may ask 'why did they not put the statue of liberty, a symbol of freedom, in their capital city of Washington D.C.?'. There are millions of 'why' questions you could ask, you can't expect them all to conform to your idea of logic. Now as for why they would possibly remain hidden for so long. Face it, we are a violent and unpredictable race. Do you think it would be wise to just suddenly show up and say "we're here" and expect to immediately have a peacefull and benificial relationship? I think not. Besides, perhaps they are performing some observation experiment with us, like rats in a maze, seing how long it would take us to reach an adequate level of technology to deal with our own problems (or something similar to that). If that's the case, then obviously it would be unwise to get involved with us before we have completed our task. -- +---------------------------+----------------------------------------------+ | Chris Wood | "If you can't convince them, confuse them." | | woodc@jacobs.cs.orst.edu | -unknown | +---------------------------+----------------------------------------------+ Article: 1141 of alt.alien.visitors Path: ns-mx!uunet!decwrl!deccrl!news.crl.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!shodha.enet.dec.com!timpson From: timpson@shodha.enet.dec.com (Steve Timpson) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ed Walters Message-ID: <3518@shodha.enet.dec.com> Date: 10 Jul 91 13:32:22 GMT Sender: news@shodha.enet.dec.com Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Lines: 9 In article <1991Jul9.191337.1024@apollo.hp.com>, mcn@apollo.hp.com (Michael McNulty) writes... > > >What's the story with Ed Walters? If this is the same guy I saw a report on on TV a few weeks back he is a phoney. they showed the model he used to fake the photographs with and basically exposed the con he perpetrated. Article: 1142 of alt.alien.visitors Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!snorkelwacker.mit.edu!hsdndev!rutgers!orstcs!jacobs.CS.ORST.EDU!woodc From: woodc@jacobs.CS.ORST.EDU (Chris Wood) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Field Circles Message-ID: <1991Jul10.123751.20342@lynx.CS.ORST.EDU> Date: 10 Jul 91 12:37:51 GMT References: <3955@sirius.ucs.adelaide.edu.au> Sender: @lynx.CS.ORST.EDU Organization: Oregon State University, CS Dept. Lines: 27 Nntp-Posting-Host: jacobs.cs.orst.edu In article <3955@sirius.ucs.adelaide.edu.au> ijameson@adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au.oz.au (Iain Jameson) writes: > >According to a news item I just heard, "Field Circles" have been >produced in the laboratory. >It was done in Japan using plasma fireballs (ionized air). > >Of course this will have to be confirmed and duplicated. >But we all know enough about science to realise this. > >Iain. But does this mean that they are proven not to be caused by aliens? It just shows one tool that the aliens may have used to create the crop circles (if your information is correct). I have a hard time believing that plasma balls forms naturally would create such complex designs unless under the control of an intelligence. Besides I still find this hard to believe since (if I am correct) plasma fireballs are formed when air reaches temperatures of 40,000+ degrees fahrenheit. Such temperatures would seems likely to cause fires or atleast cause scorch marks on the crops. Also, plasma fireballs should register on infraread equipment that has been set up to try to observe this phenonenon happening. This is not intended as a flame. -- +---------------------------+----------------------------------------------+ | Chris Wood | "If you can't convince them, confuse them." | | woodc@jacobs.cs.orst.edu | -unknown | +---------------------------+----------------------------------------------+ Article: 1143 of alt.alien.visitors Path: ns-mx!uunet!munnari.oz.au!bruce!monu0.cc.monash.edu.au!monu6!minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au!rxxgre From: rxxgre@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au (Geof Rey Evans) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: what about the last 44 years ? Summary: more imfo req. Keywords: ? Message-ID: <1991Jul10.084842.24362@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au> Date: 10 Jul 91 08:48:42 GMT Distribution: alt Organization: RMIT Computer Centre, Melbourne Australia. Lines: 12 It is with some interest I read about the capture (alledged) of aliens and their craft in 1947 by the U.S. Govt., but that was 44 years ago ! Has nothing come to light since then ? No other imformation ? No other CRASHES ? Someone MUST know more about this incident if not any others...how can this still be such a secret ? GRE. -- ___________________________________________________________________ Article: 1144 of alt.alien.visitors Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!samsung!emory!att!cbnewsh!cbnewse!cbnewsd!cbfsb!cbnewsb.cb.att.com!marz From: marz@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (martin.zam) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: KLAS in Las Vegas... Keywords: Video Tape, S-4, George Knapp Message-ID: <1991Jul10.132620.225@cbfsb.att.com> Date: 10 Jul 91 13:26:20 GMT Sender: news@cbfsb.att.com Distribution: na Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories Lines: 12 Has anyone got a video tape copy of the 9 part series that George Knapp did for KLAS in Las Vegas, Nevada? After reading discussions on this news group, I called them for a copy. They said that they had to refuse, due to the overwhelming demand for copies. This 9 part series severely overloaded their ability to dub copies. How do "I" get a copy? Can anybody help? Thanks in advance, Martin Zam (201)564-2554 Article: 1148 of alt.alien.visitors Path: ns-mx!uunet!munnari.oz.au!manuel!coombs!joshua From: joshua@coombs.anu.edu.au (Joshua Geller) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: That Face on Mars!!! Message-ID: Date: 10 Jul 91 18:06:32 GMT References: <1991Jul10.110634.16810@lynx.CS.ORST.EDU> Sender: news@newshost.anu.edu.au Distribution: alt Organization: Computer Services Centre, Australian National University Lines: 34 If we are going to revive this here debate (and it sure seems like round 'n' is about to begin if it is not already begun) here (just offhand) are the possible explanations of the face (not in what I consider order of probability, BTW): a) it is not an intelligent artifact; it is merely a1) a trick of light and shadow (BTW, there exist two viking photo- graphs of the face and surrounds from significantly different sun angles; it retains its faceness and there have been some interest- ing stereometric studies). a2) carved out by erosive processes. b) it is an intelligent artifact made as: b1) a stonehenge type of astronomical observatory b2) a 'Sentinal' type beacon b3) something else entirely by ba) native martians who: ba1) just happen to have a strong resemblance to humans ba2) just happened to make something that resembles a human for some unknown reason ba3) eventually colonized earth bb) ancient terran colonists of mars bc) common ancestors of both terrans and martians, coming from somewhere else bd) none of the above (see b2) c) none of the above. I personally lean towards b2/bb; your mileage may vary. josh Article: 1152 of alt.alien.visitors Path: ns-mx!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!utgpu!attcan!craig From: craig@attcan.UUCP (Craig Campbell) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: That Face on Mars!!! Message-ID: <15481@vpk2.UUCP> Date: 10 Jul 91 17:54:21 GMT References: <1991Jul10.110634.16810@lynx.CS.ORST.EDU> Reply-To: craig@vpk2.ATT.COM (Craig Campbell) Distribution: alt Organization: AT&T Canada Inc., Toronto Lines: 13 In article <1991Jul10.110634.16810@lynx.CS.ORST.EDU> woodc@jacobs.CS.ORST.EDU (Chris Wood) writes: > I would like to point out that all of the faces that have been carved into >stone (or whatever) on Earth are all facing a horizontal direction (as far >as I know), we have no 'faces' on Earth that face straight up. What about those pictograms scattered about? You know, the bugs etched into the desert or some such thing. Of course there are those who argue that aliens created these as well. Go figure... craig Article: 1153 of alt.alien.visitors Path: ns-mx!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!asuvax!anasaz!billy From: billy@anasaz.UUCP (Bill Moore) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: About Roswell and the Govt. Coverup Message-ID: <4480@anasaz.UUCP> Date: 10 Jul 91 15:02:41 GMT References: <316@jabaru.oz.au> Reply-To: billy@anasaz.UUCP (Bill Moore) Organization: Anasazi, Inc. Lines: 13 In article <316@jabaru.oz.au> 00195@tanus.oz.au (Brian Evans) writes: > >johnr@systech.bjorn.COM (John Reed) writes: >>I am not an expert in UFO-ology (or whatever it's called), but to >>me, as a layman, the evidence seems overwhelming that a crash happened >>at Roswell, and UFO's are definitely for real. What evidence do you know about that supports the crashed UFO claim? Aside from flimsy hearsay statements, as far as I know, there has been nothing. We know something happened in Roswell and that its a military secret, there's ample proof of that. But how do you get from military secret to UFO? ... stuff deleted ... Article: 1154 of alt.alien.visitors Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!spool.mu.edu!uunet!pmafire! From: jeffl@servprod.inel.gov (Jeff Later) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Mars Face. Message-ID: <1991Jul10.215702.20586@pmafire.inel.gov> Date: 10 Jul 91 21:57:02 GMT Sender: J.B. Later Distribution: na Organization: WINCO Lines: 10 I remember "someone" posting information regarding the availability of large wall mount "posters" of the Mars Face for sale???? Anybody know where I can get one of these? Thanks in advance! Jeff Later jeffl@pmafire.inel.gov Article: 1158 of alt.alien.visitors Path: ns-mx!uunet!stanford.edu!apple!applelink.Apple.com!showen From: showen@applelink.Apple.com (Don Showen) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Drive System & Navigation Message-ID: <14572@goofy.Apple.COM> Date: 10 Jul 91 16:38:05 GMT References: <804@eskimo.celestial.com> Sender: usenet@Apple.COM Organization: Apple Computer Lines: 148 Robert Dinse states > I am interested in the mechanical aspects of the crafts, the power >source, how the drive system works, is it capable of faster than light >travel and if so how this is achieved, and how navigation is handled. I would like to introduce you to two of my favorite, favorite people. Samjese, I would fly on her beamship any time and Billie Meier, I still hope to make it to Switzerland to met him. Samjese showed up in Billies head around 1975 or 76 and said telepathically, come outside to so and so location and I will show you my beamship. Well he did, and she did. They had over 130 meeting, Billie took over 500 photos, recorded sounds of the beamship, took movie footage and actually got to fly on it a few times. He was one armed so instead of sitting there and taking notes while they were talking. Samjese had the beamships computer record their conversations and the computer would telepathically transmit them back to Meier when he was home in front of the typewriter. Samjese actually took the typewriter aboard the beamship to see at what speed to have the computer telepathically transmit the information. So the below is reprinted with permission from the book Message From the Pleiades by Wendelle Stevens it is from the Fourth Contact Saturday, 15 February 1975 Copyrighted by Wendelle Stevens Meier- My next question concerns what you have already explained to me in our first meeting, that Earth men would never be able to travel the Universe if they did not invent another method of propulsion. I can only imagine here that you mean a form of radiation propulsion, a hyper-drive, so to speak. In my opinion that must treat of a drive which in some way changes matter, likely beyond the speed of light, and by that the beamships enter a hyper-space, in which space and time are paralyzed, as you already explained. I assume that space and time in such a way collapsing into each other are somehow completely dissolved. Semjase- 26/ You take honors as a scientist. 27/ When we consider then, that all your knowledge consists of autodidactical work, it is phenomenal. 28/ You are completely right in your assumption. 29/ For traveling through cosmic space, a drive is necessary which surpasses the speed of light by millions of times. 30/ But this propulsion can only come into action when the speed of light has already been reached. 31/ From that it follows that a further drive is needed regulating normal speed up to that of light. 32/ This means then that a beamship needs two drives, first the normal which accelerates up to the speed of light, and then a second for the hyperdrive, as you call it. 33/ A drive then, which generates a million-fold, and billion-fold, the speed of light, thus the hyper-speed by which hyper-space is penetrated. 34/ A space in which the mass increases in relation to speed. 35/ So time and space collapse, and they become zero time and zero space. 36/ This means time and space cease to exist. 37/ And exactly by that, distances of numerous lightyears are traversed in a fraction of a second, with no time lag.(2) Meier- Does this mean that for a beamship and its passengers, the same time passes as on the home planet, or another star? Semjase- 38/ Surely. 39/ When, for example, we leave the Pleiades and need about 7 hours to get to Earth, then on our own planet, and on Earth, 7 hours pass. 40/ We need this long because we first have to fly beyond the reach of the planets by normal propulsion, and only far out in space can we convert to hyperspeed. 41/ Back from the hyperspace then, far outside your solar system, we convert to normal drive. 42/ We are never allowed to enter hyperspace too near to a planet... Meier- This is very interesting, but how, essentially, does such a hyper-drive work, and what happens to the normal drive? Semjase- 50/ I am not allowed to give you closer details on this, because if Earth scientists knew more details they would have solved their drive problems already in a short time. 51/ This is not in our cosmic interest, as the Earth human is still not free enough to fly in cosmic space. 52/ But he will in a given time solve the problem himself, which is not far off. 53/ I am only allowed to give so much of this secret, many of your scientists already being on the right track and working and conducting research on the necessary propulsions. 54/ I am only allowed to say this concerning propulsions; your scientists are already working on lightemitting drives. 55/ Light-emitting drives work for normal propulsion, and move the beamships near planets and until they are a safe distance away. 56/ there (another drive) is activated when greater distances are to be overcome. 57/ That is for the hyper-propulsion system, which surpasses time and space. 58/ We call both of these propulsions by other designations, but the sense is similar. 59/ We have another language than Earth humans, and so I have to explain it to you in terms which you understand. Meier- That is evident, yet I do not understand how such a drive functions. I understand the emittance, and the meaning of "tacheons", but I cannot imagine the actual process by which they result in propulsion. Can you tell me more about this? Semjase- 60/ No, I am not allowed to do so, because it might reveal the secret of the whole drive, and also the generating and harnessing of tacheons; and the same with the emittance drive. Meier- Thank you, that suffices, for I do not want to urge you. One thing still interests me. If I consider right, then the form of the beamship plays no decisive role, yet a discform would be the more ideal because, aerodynamically, in an atmosphere, it surely offers the least resistance, which would also be the case in water. Semjase- 61/ Surely so, you have struck a point. 62/ But taken in all, the form really plays little part. 63/ The disc-like form vouches the least resistance, and also offers the largest surface, to enable the drives on them to be most effective. Meier- This is evident, but how is it possible for a beamship in the gravity of a planet, or in its atmosphere, to attain such great speed without glowing, or the passengers succumbing to the huge pressures? Semjase- 64/ This is very easy to explain, and also no secret any more to Earth humans, at least not the scientists; the beamship is surrounded by a protection-beam-girdle, which allows every interference to glide away, without pushing. 65/ The same also happens in the cosmos, which swarms with particles. 66/ So the beam-protection screen functions to protect the ship against all influences and resistances, with anything contacting the screen becoming disintegrated or "flowed" away. 67/ All penetrating, or resistance-offering things are simply diverted without evoking pressure. 68/ A pressure would mean resistance and would inhibit unlimited speed. 69/ But removal of the protecting screen initiates another important effect which is of great importance to the passengers. 70/ The glide-away effect of the beam-protection screen also neutralizes the attractive force of a planet. 73/ ...which results in the beamship not being subject to the gravity forces of the planet. 74/ The gravity of a planet is, besides this, not always the same, or of the same strength, owing to certain alternations which will be discovered by your scientists in a reasonable time. 75/ The beam-protective-screen diverts the gravity and attractive forces, and the beamship in effect becomes a miniature planet which can travel at nearly lightspeed through any atmosphere without risk. 76/ As the gravity of a concerned planet does not influence the beamship, the passengers feel normal and unburdened, as if they were on their planet itself, always under the premise that the planetary gravity is in accordance with their anatomical capabilities. 77/ In the beamship itself, the gravity of course is tuned to the passengers and is completely controllable. 78/ When passengers on spacecraft from other worlds move in atmospheres alien to them, or on hostile planets with unbearable gravity, they use suits and small transportable instruments which generate for that creature, the necessary beam-protective-screen for their particular ship and peculiar requirement. Don Showen Work 408-974-9544 Home 408-865-1768 Article: 1159 of alt.alien.visitors Path: ns-mx!uunet!spool.mu.edu!news.cs.indiana.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!m.cs.uiuc.edu!vela!dlcogswe From: dlcogswe@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Dan Cogswell) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: been visited? Message-ID: <7943@vela.acs.oakland.edu> Date: 11 Jul 91 02:48:45 GMT References: <8988@awdprime.UUCP> <1991Jul03.163719.27447@ariel.unm.edu> <1991Jul10.053754.20691@bilver.uucp> Organization: Oakland University, Rochester MI. Lines: 30 dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) writes: [RE: a.a.v FAQ] >That's an idea that I'm toying with myself. Frequently, people will ask: >What are the greys? Where do they come from? What IS a "grey"? etc,ect.. > >Hmmmmmm...I'll get to work on some parts..maybe you could work on something >too? Great idea! Only, if Don writes it, I'm sure it will turn out to be about 1700 lines! :-) Seriously, I would VERY much welcome a FAQ *at least* defining some terms used here and the roles some of this stuff plays in relation to each other (that is, *IF* I believed any of this... ahem... :-). Also, I'd like to see more articles on how one can "protect" oneself from abductions, etc. I saw some references to previous articles, but joined in on the group to late to get the whole discussion. Definitely FAQ material. >-* Don Allen *- InterNet: dona@bilver.UUCP // Amiga..for the best of us. >Illuminati < MJ-12|Greys|TLC|CFR|FED|Bilderbergs > UN = "New World Order" Okay, Don, you've scared us enough! :-) -- Dan Cogswell dlcogswe@vela.acs.oakland.edu Mostly H20 and whatever pizza and Diet Pepsi digest into Article: 1160 of alt.alien.visitors Path: ns-mx!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!news.cs.indiana.edu!att!pacbell.com!ucsd!hub!ucsbuxa!6600hubb From: 6600hubb@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu (Richard Hubbell) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: ufo encounter Keywords: ufo encounter Message-ID: <625@hub.ucsb.edu> Date: 11 Jul 91 06:18:25 GMT Sender: root@hub.ucsb.edu Distribution: alt.alien.visitors Lines: 32 Did anyone see a show that had a piece on a ufo encounter in Texas? I saw part of it tonite (7-10-91) I missed a portion of it when signal went out from channel 6. A woman, her mother, and a child were driving when they saw some kind of craft. They stopped and the woman got out of the car to look at the ufo. The encounter lasted about ten minutes. The ufo was hovering the whole time. The ufo left and the woman got into the car as they were leaving a squadron of helicopters approached (the older woman counted 23 helicopters) she described them as the type with to rotors. Approx. 6 hours later they all became ill. The mother had the worst symptoms, followed by the child and then the older woman. According to the physician treating her she suffered from radiation exposure. Her skin was burned and she eventually lost her hair. A ufo researcher went to the site where this occurred and verified a dark patch of the asphalt that had been scarred by intense heat. I think his name was Schlouser(sp.) he also was told later that some trucks had gone to the site and removed all traces of the burnt asphalt and replaced it with new. At first the Air Force acknowledged that something did occur but then they went back on there original claim and denied that anything happened. I'd like to hear more about this incident if anyone can add more info. It happened 10 years ago in late 1980 in Texas(Dayton?). All three are still alive but the woman has been diagnosed with cancer and the older woman and child still also suffer from strange illnesses. RH -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- " University of California Santa Barbara Richard Hubbell " "6600hubb@ -> Inet:ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu;Bitnet:ucsbuxa.bitnet;UUCP:ucsbuxa " _______________________________________________________________________ Article 1170 of alt.alien.visitors: From: p515dfi@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (Daniel Fischer) Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Alien spacecraft to be displayed? [Forwarded from sci.astro] Message-ID: <2172@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de> Date: 6 Aug 91 11:15:42 GMT Reply-To: p515dfi@mpirbn.UUCP (Daniel Fischer) Organization: Max-Planck-Institut fuer Radioastronomie, Bonn Lines: 80 +From: huw@spls5.ccs.mt.nec.co.jp (Huw Jonathan Rogers) +Newsgroups: sci.astro +Subject: Aliens from outer space... Message-ID: <9108050414.AA08074@spls5.ccs.mt.nec.co.jp> Date: 5 Aug 91 04:14:01 GMT Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU Organization: Murder Inc. I recently heard a Radio One program in the UK that contained an interview with a leading proponent of the popular "US Government has aliens locked up and is experimenting with their spaceplanes" conspiracy theory. However this particular individual sounded very reasonable, did not make any outrageous claims, and further had some interesting facts to disclose. In particular he mentioned several verifiable facts which I would like some followup on: Rockwell International and NASA were planning a *massive* joint exhibition of space exploration this year (1991) but it was delayed inexplicably until 1992. In the *official* prospectus for this exhibition, one of the exhibits was clearly stated to be "an extraterrestrial space craft". When asked about this by various individuals, all enquiries were referred by NASA to the US DoD. An unnamed Pentagon spokesman speaking off the record is meant to have indicated that they "had a number of such vehicles to choose from..." The Pentagon also held a press conference to deal with press inquiries on this matter - and refused to answer any questions. In fact reporters later said that the Pentagon had asked most of the questions, and they all pertained to "what would be the public reaction if...". The guy on the radio program referred extensively to two NASA consultant engineers who claimed to have worked on alien spacecraft studying propulsion systems for NASA - both had high level security clearance in the States, were verifiably employed by NASA as senior consultant engineers, and both were phoned in the States by the station in a followup program (which I missed) the next day. The followup program incidentally was only scheduled at the last minute due to record phone calls from the public swamping Radio 1's 64 line switchboard... He also claimed that a NSA official had told him off the record that the NSA was in "electronic communication" with at least eight extraterrestrial sources of intelligent communication... He claimed that he possessed a recording of a telephone conversation with an ex deputy director of the CIA (Casey's deputy as I recall), who said that they (the CIA) had possession of quite a few alien artefacts, including bodies, spacecraft and other miscellaneous bits and pieces. He also verified on tape claims that several alien landings at US AFBs had occured in the past, and in some cases were common knowledge amongst certain groups of AFB personnel: "Hear what came in this morning, Joe?"... Various farmers in a certain area of the US (I forget the state that was mentioned) regularly discovered bloodless (drained) cattle in various stages of dismemberment in the early morning. These animals had had certain glands, body parts, or body fluids surgically removed with a precision beyond the capabilities of all but the most advanced surgical laboratories. This problem was so bad that in one place a farmer was in danger of going bust due to loss of cattle. One explanation advanced was that aliens were using these cattle as a convenient source of various rare chemicals/tissues. The technology in the latest black projects that have progressed to flight hardware - Aurora, Strike, etc. - seems to be well beyond the capabilities of current commercial (defense/aerospace) technology. In particular ablative control surfaces and reliable flight control at speeds in excess of Mach 4 are characteristics of such craft, sightings of which are widespread in Nevada along with reliable evidence (supersonic boom disruption?) of such speeds. Any comments/hard info. on any of these assertions would be much appreciated - please post as I am sure others are interested too. -Huw [ H.J.Rogers INTERNET: huw@ccs.mt.nec.co.jp ] [ ,_, JANET: huw%ccs.mt.nec.co.jp@uk.ac.nsfnet-relay ] [ :-(_)-o "Either code it for speed, or don't code it at all." ] [ _} {_ "I'll be back..." ] [ THIS EMAIL ADDRESS ONLY VALID UNTIL 12/9/1991 ] Article: 1177 of alt.alien.visitors Path: ns-mx!uunet!spool.mu.edu!cs.umn.edu!talon!orstcs!jacobs.CS.ORST.EDU!woodc From: woodc@jacobs.CS.ORST.EDU (Chris Wood) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: That Face on Mars!!! Message-ID: <1991Jul11.223743.1669@lynx.CS.ORST.EDU> Date: 11 Jul 91 22:37:43 GMT References: <1991Jul10.110634.16810@lynx.CS.ORST.EDU> <15481@vpk2.UUCP> Sender: @lynx.CS.ORST.EDU Distribution: alt Organization: Oregon State University, CS Dept. Lines: 27 Nntp-Posting-Host: jacobs.cs.orst.edu In article <15481@vpk2.UUCP> craig@vpk2.ATT.COM (Craig Campbell) writes: >What about those pictograms scattered about? You know, the bugs etched into >the desert or some such thing. Of course there are those who argue that >aliens created these as well. > >Go figure... > >craig I meant structures which were built/carved to honor a leader, etc... All these man made structures such as the carvings in Mount Rushmore, or statues such as the Statue of Liberty are built facing horizontally. I do not agree with what many people say about the designs of insects and animals drawn in the ground. I rather than strictly being used as a type of a caledar, I believe that these were also created to cummunicate with the 'gods' (in other words, the aliens). Maybe they were just artwork for the 'gods', who knows. Anyway, the point is is that designs created so that they are visible best from above generally aren't created to honor an individual or thing. If this face was created by an intelligence, then it is likely that it wasn't created as a monument to one of their leaders (unless of course they have heavy trafic in this part of the universe and decided to create a sort of inter-galactic landmark for their tourists). :-) -- +---------------------------+----------------------------------------------+ | Chris Wood | "If you can't convince them, confuse them." | | woodc@jacobs.cs.orst.edu | -unknown | +---------------------------+----------------------------------------------+ Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!news.cs.indiana.edu!att!att!fang!tarpit!bilver!dona From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: About Roswell and the Govt. Coverup Message-ID: <1991Jul11.235622.6087@bilver.uucp> Date: 11 Jul 91 23:56:22 GMT References: <316@jabaru.oz.au> Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL Lines: 40 In article <316@jabaru.oz.au> 00195@tanus.oz.au (Brian Evans) writes: > >johnr@systech.bjorn.COM (John Reed) writes: >>I am not an expert in UFO-ology (or whatever it's called), but to >>me, as a layman, the evidence seems overwhelming that a crash happened >>at Roswell, and UFO's are definitely for real. >> >>The frustrating part for me is that all of the facts have been covered up. >>Just what is the truth? What the f*** is going on? >> >>If a crash occured at Roswell, and aliens were recovered, then to me, >>this would be the most significant event that has occurred in all of >>human history. Does anyone else agree with this viewpoint?? > >I would also have to agree that based on fact a craft did crash at Roswell >back in 1947. There has been a lot of written information (third party) >detailing investigations regarding this incident. A new book is about to be >released on the Roswell incident which discloses some fantastic facts about >the incident. The authors have spent a considerable amount of time >researching the incident and in light of the new evidence and information >contained in the book (providing it is correct) I am convinced that an alien >craft DID crash at Roswell. Your viewpoint regarding an important event in There is a book out now called "UFO Crash At Roswell" and I would recommend it _most highly_. The authors are Kevin Randle, Capt, USAF-Ret and Don Schmitt. Published by AVON and available in paperback. This book is a MUST READ for anyone interested in finding out all the details. The book names PLENTY of names. This book,in my opinion, is the ~smoking gun~ that exposes the Govt COVERUP. Don -- -* Don Allen *- InterNet: dona@bilver.UUCP // Amiga..for the best of us. USnail: 1818G Landing Dr, Sanford Fl 32771 \X/ Why use anything else? :-) UUCP: ..uunet!tarpit!bilver!vicstoy!dona 0110 0110 0110 Just say NO! Illuminati < MJ-12|Greys|TLC|CFR|FED|Bilderbergs > UN = "New World Order" Article: 1179 of alt.alien.visitors Path: ns-mx!uunet!systech!johnr From: johnr@systech.bjorn.COM (John Reed) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: About Roswell and the Govt. Coverup Message-ID: <999@systech.bjorn.COM> Date: 12 Jul 91 00:56:55 GMT References: <316@jabaru.oz.au> <4480@anasaz.UUCP> Organization: Systech Corporation, San Diego Lines: 46 In article <4480@anasaz.UUCP> billy@anasaz.UUCP (Bill Moore) writes: >> >>johnr@systech.bjorn.COM (John Reed) writes: >>>I am not an expert in UFO-ology (or whatever it's called), but to >>>me, as a layman, the evidence seems overwhelming that a crash happened >>>at Roswell, and UFO's are definitely for real. > >What evidence do you know about that supports the crashed UFO claim? Aside >from flimsy hearsay statements, as far as I know, there has been nothing. We >know something happened in Roswell and that its a military secret, there's >ample proof of that. But how do you get from military secret to UFO? > Good point Bill. You should know just as much as anyone I suppose. So far, I'm about half way through Randle and Schmitt's Roswell book, and I would say this: Based on what is presented in the book, take witness A's testimony + witness B's testimony + witness C's testimony + ...... (you get the picture), I would conclude that an alien craft had crashed. Can peoples' testimony that you read in a book be taken as evidence? I tried to state that I'm no expert in UFO matters. Of course I don't have any direct evidence! I would not pretend that I'm an expert, and I surely wouldn't spout off that "I know for sure". I guess what you're trying to do is question the manner in which I reach my own personal conclusions. I would say that Vallee's Confrontations book and the mentioned Roswell book are honest attempts to present evidence that UFO's are for real. Should I discount the evidence presented in the books just because I don't have any direct, physical proof? And about those "flimsy hearsay statements": Are you very politely stating that each of the witnesses making statements in these books are liars? Are you attempting to very subtly de-bunk these books, and the reputable authors who wrote them? -- -------------------------------------------------------------- John Reed {uunet,ucsd}!systech!johnr Systech johnr%systech.uucp@ucsd -------------------------------------------------------------- Path: ns-mx!uunet!wuarchive!uwm.edu!linac!att!att!fang!tarpit!bilver!dona From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: About Roswell and the Govt. Coverup Message-ID: <1991Jul12.000115.6189@bilver.uucp> Date: 12 Jul 91 00:01:15 GMT References: <316@jabaru.oz.au> <4480@anasaz.UUCP> Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL Lines: 35 In article <4480@anasaz.UUCP> billy@anasaz.UUCP (Bill Moore) writes: >In article <316@jabaru.oz.au> 00195@tanus.oz.au (Brian Evans) writes: >> >>johnr@systech.bjorn.COM (John Reed) writes: >>>I am not an expert in UFO-ology (or whatever it's called), but to >>>me, as a layman, the evidence seems overwhelming that a crash happened >>>at Roswell, and UFO's are definitely for real. > >What evidence do you know about that supports the crashed UFO claim? Aside >from flimsy hearsay statements, as far as I know, there has been nothing. We >know something happened in Roswell and that its a military secret, there's >ample proof of that. But how do you get from military secret to UFO? > >... stuff deleted ... Mr Moore..it is plenty obvious to me that you haven't got a bloody clue! Go get some books and do your research!! I would most heartily recommend the Randle/Schmitt book, "UFO Crash at Roswell" that just came out in paperback and published by AVON books. Not to mention that Stanton Friedman has been also working on this for years... Don -- -* Don Allen *- InterNet: dona@bilver.UUCP // Amiga..for the best of us. USnail: 1818G Landing Dr, Sanford Fl 32771 \X/ Why use anything else? :-) UUCP: ..uunet!tarpit!bilver!vicstoy!dona 0110 0110 0110 Just say NO! Illuminati < MJ-12|Greys|TLC|CFR|FED|Bilderbergs > UN = "New World Order" Article: 1182 of alt.alien.visitors Path: ns-mx!uunet!spool.mu.edu!mips!sdd.hp.com!wuarchive!bcm!dino.qci.bioch.bcm.tmc.edu!skywalker From: skywalker@dino.qci.bioch.bcm.tmc.edu (Timothy B. Reynolds) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: ufo encounter Keywords: ufo encounter Message-ID: <6484@gazette.bcm.tmc.edu> Date: 11 Jul 91 15:14:38 GMT References: <625@hub.ucsb.edu> Sender: usenet@bcm.tmc.edu Distribution: alt.alien.visitors Organization: X-Ray Crystallography / Howard Hughes Medical Institute Lines: 46 Nntp-Posting-Host: dino.qci.bioch.bcm.tmc.edu In article <625@hub.ucsb.edu> 6600hubb@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu (Richard Hubbell) writes: .>Did anyone see a show that had a piece on a ufo encounter in Texas? .>I saw part of it tonite (7-10-91) I missed a portion of it when .>signal went out from channel 6. A woman, her mother, and a child .>were driving when they saw some kind of craft. They stopped and the .>woman got out of the car to look at the ufo. The encounter lasted about .>ten minutes. The ufo was hovering the whole time. The ufo left and .>the woman got into the car as they were leaving a squadron of .>helicopters approached (the older woman counted 23 helicopters) she .>described them as the type with to rotors. Approx. 6 hours later they .>all became ill. The mother had the worst symptoms, followed by the .>child and then the older woman. According to the physician treating her .>she suffered from radiation exposure. Her skin was burned and she .>eventually lost her hair. A ufo researcher went to the site where .>this occurred and verified a dark patch of the asphalt that had been .>scarred by intense heat. I think his name was Schlouser(sp.) he also .>was told later that some trucks had gone to the site and removed all .>traces of the burnt asphalt and replaced it with new. .> At first the Air Force acknowledged that something did .>occur but then they went back on there original claim and denied that .>anything happened. I'd like to hear more about this incident if .>anyone can add more info. It happened 10 years ago in late 1980 .>in Texas(Dayton?). All three are still alive but the woman has been .>diagnosed with cancer and the older woman and child still also .>suffer from strange illnesses. .> .>RH We don't get much press about it here but it comes up every once and a while. Both adults and suffering from severe medical problems (cancer, leukemia), the child has shown no medical problems yet. The government still say's nothing happened. The also claim they never had that many helicopters in this part of Texas at any time. My guess is they (the military) were moving a craft from one site to another with a helicopter escort and were spotted or maybe they were test flying it. Tim -- Disclaimer: My opinions are my own, not HHMI's or Baylor College of Medicine ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "And we stand and watch the gods and idols fall, as the blameless ones go blindfold to the wall" Robin Trower.... Article: 1194 of alt.alien.visitors Path: ns-mx!uunet!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!linac!att!cbfsb!cbnewsb.cb.att.com!marz From: marz@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (martin.zam) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: George Knapp and KLAS in Las Vegas... Keywords: KLAS, George Knapp, video tape, 9-part series Message-ID: <1991Jul12.150831.8534@cbfsb.att.com> Date: 12 Jul 91 15:08:31 GMT Sender: news@cbfsb.att.com Distribution: usa Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories Lines: 16 Earlier this week I requested a copy of the nine part series that George Knapp did on the UFO research in the area known as S-4 on the local military base. Not one person mailed or posted in response. I turned to the net because KLAS was unwilling to produce any more video tape copies "due to overwhelming demand". Didn't anybody on this news group get a copy? Did anybody see this series? Did it ever really happen?!? I would like to restart the discussion on this series. I was really starting to enjoy it, when it abruptly ended. Did all of you who saw this get erased like the fellow who worked at S-4? I wonder... Thanks in advance, Martin Zam (201)564-2554 Article: 1201 of alt.alien.visitors Path: ns-mx!uunet!wuarchive!ukma!asuvax!anasaz!qip!billy From: billy@anasaz (Bill Moore) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: About Roswell and the Govt. Coverup Message-ID: <1991Jul12.164341.441@anasaz> Date: 12 Jul 91 16:43:41 GMT References: <316@jabaru.oz.au> <4480@anasaz.UUCP> <999@systech.bjorn.COM> Organization: Anasazi, Inc. Phoenix, Az Lines: 74 In article <999@systech.bjorn.COM> johnr@systech.bjorn.COM (John Reed) writes: >In article <4480@anasaz.UUCP> billy@anasaz.UUCP (Bill Moore) writes: >>> >>>johnr@systech.bjorn.COM (John Reed) writes: >>>>I am not an expert in UFO-ology (or whatever it's called), but to >>>>me, as a layman, the evidence seems overwhelming that a crash happened >>>>at Roswell, and UFO's are definitely for real. >> >>What evidence do you know about that supports the crashed UFO claim? Aside >>from flimsy hearsay statements, as far as I know, there has been nothing. We >>know something happened in Roswell and that its a military secret, there's >>ample proof of that. But how do you get from military secret to UFO? >> > >Good point Bill. You should know just as much as anyone I suppose. > >So far, I'm about half way through Randle and Schmitt's Roswell book, >and I would say this: > > Based on what is presented in the book, take witness A's testimony + > witness B's testimony + witness C's testimony + ...... > (you get the picture), I would conclude that an alien craft had crashed. > >Can peoples' testimony that you read in a book be taken as evidence? > >I tried to state that I'm no expert in UFO matters. Of course I don't >have any direct evidence! I would not pretend that I'm an expert, and >I surely wouldn't spout off that "I know for sure". > >I guess what you're trying to do is question the manner in which I >reach my own personal conclusions. I would say that Vallee's Confrontations That's what this is all about isn't it? We lay this stuff out on the net to see if it can withstand the level of examination its going to get. >book and the mentioned Roswell book are honest attempts to present evidence >that UFO's are for real. Should I discount the evidence presented in >the books just because I don't have any direct, physical proof? > >And about those "flimsy hearsay statements": Are you very politely stating >that each of the witnesses making statements in these books are liars? >Are you attempting to very subtly de-bunk these books, and the reputable >authors who wrote them? > No, I don't think these witnesses are liars. I've been into this for a long, long time and have come across all kinds of claims from credible people who I believe are telling the truth. As Vallee concludes in "Confrontations", these people have experienced something that cannot be explained. I don't accept the alien visitors theory but my mind is open. I'm anxious to look at any evidence anyone puts forward but will do so with a critial eye. In Roswell, we have a lot of investigation and proof that whatever happened is a military secret but none of that has moved the UFO claim forward even one iota. If you look at the "timeline" and "list of witnesses" in the Randall and Schmidt book and cross out everything that goes to show that the military is keeping a secret as opposed to a UFO crash, you're left with the following: 1. Fourteen credible witnesses, four with good technical backgrounds, who could not identify the debris. 2. Hearsay statements that Barnett told three people he had come across a crashed UFO. 3. Second hand hearsay about an unidentified source who said she too had seen the same thing. This (along with other second hand hearsay) is what I meant by "flimsy." Since it followed an NBC program about the Roswell crash, since its second hand, since its hearsay, since the source is not identified, this stuff is worthless. 4. A medical clerk at Wright-Patterson who claims to have seen an alien corpse. I think this all adds up to an interesting case that could stand more investigation but don't agree it constitutes proof a UFO crashed at Roswell. In fact, if the UFO part of this case had been presented without the drama of a military cover-up, it wouldn't get a second thought. Article: 1202 of alt.alien.visitors Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!apple!applelink.Apple.com!showen From: showen@applelink.Apple.com (Don Showen) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Mars Face. Message-ID: <14632@goofy.Apple.COM> Date: 12 Jul 91 22:47:46 GMT References: <1991Jul10.215702.20586@pmafire.inel.gov> Sender: usenet@Apple.COM Distribution: na Organization: Apple Computer Lines: 36 Jeff Later asks >I remember "someone" posting information regarding the >availability of large wall mount "posters" of the Mars Face >for sale???? The poster has about 6 different images with one showing the geometric relationships between the structures. We had speakers on this at our Family of Light Network meeting the other evening. They suggested that there are encoded messages in the geometric relationships that could lead to incredible break throughs. They are hoping next years Mars mission will bring back much clearer pictures for further study. They are looking for people to join their group to support the project if anyone is interested let me know. They are not directly associated with the address below. One other thing I recently concluded. The Pleiadians mention an early man advanced society buried under Anartica. I think the Mars Face/pyramids and this society are connected. See my Pleiadian quote on the thread How life begin or something like that. This poster is a companion piece to the audio cassette program THE MONUMENTS OF MARS,. Copyright 1989 by Enhanced Audio Systems and Richard C Hoagland. For each additional cassette, please send $10.95. For each additional poster, send $3.00. For more information about the Mars Investigation, plus a book catalog, send $2.00. Add 7%, sales tax for California orders. Add $2.00 postage & handling or each order. ENHANCED AUDI0 SYSTEMS 1900 Powell Street, Suite 1135, Emeryville, CA 94608 pyramid Don Showen Work 408-974-9544 Home 408-865-1768 Article: 1204 of alt.alien.visitors Path: ns-mx!uunet!viusys!uxui!unislc!mru From: mru@unislc.uucp (Mara Ulis) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: ufo encounter Keywords: ufo encounter Message-ID: <1991Jul12.222834.29211@unislc.uucp> Date: 12 Jul 91 22:28:34 GMT References: <625@hub.ucsb.edu> Reply-To: mru@unislc.UUCP (Mara Ulis,B2E10,5345) Distribution: alt.alien.visitors Organization: Unisys, Salt Lake City Lines: 47 In article <625@hub.ucsb.edu> 6600hubb@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu (Richard Hubbell) writes: >Did anyone see a show that had a piece on a ufo encounter in Texas? >I saw part of it tonite (7-10-91) I missed a portion of it when >signal went out from channel 6. A woman, her mother, and a child >were driving when they saw some kind of craft. They stopped and the >woman got out of the car to look at the ufo. The encounter lasted about >ten minutes. The ufo was hovering the whole time. The ufo left and >the woman got into the car as they were leaving a squadron of >helicopters approached (the older woman counted 23 helicopters) she >described them as the type with to rotors. Approx. 6 hours later they >all became ill. The mother had the worst symptoms, followed by the >child and then the older woman. According to the physician treating her >she suffered from radiation exposure. Her skin was burned and she >eventually lost her hair. A ufo researcher went to the site where >this occurred and verified a dark patch of the asphalt that had been >scarred by intense heat. I think his name was Schlouser(sp.) he also >was told later that some trucks had gone to the site and removed all >traces of the burnt asphalt and replaced it with new. > At first the Air Force acknowledged that something did >occur but then they went back on there original claim and denied that >anything happened. I'd like to hear more about this incident if >anyone can add more info. It happened 10 years ago in late 1980 >in Texas(Dayton?). All three are still alive but the woman has been >diagnosed with cancer and the older woman and child still also >suffer from strange illnesses. > >RH > >-- >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >" University of California Santa Barbara Richard Hubbell " >"6600hubb@ -> Inet:ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu;Bitnet:ucsbuxa.bitnet;UUCP:ucsbuxa " >_______________________________________________________________________ You are referring to the Andreasson Affair. The MUFON investigator was John Schussler(sp). There are some books out about this case. Also, you might contact MUFON for more information. Their address is Walt Andrus, Director 103 Oldtowne Road Seguin, Texas 78155. Hope this helps. Mara Ulis -- "They cannot speak. We can. Those who are /\ /\ articulate must be the voices of those who 0 0 are voiceless." =^= Richard Morgan 0 Article: 1211 of alt.alien.visitors Path: ns-mx!uunet!spool.mu.edu!caen!hellgate.utah.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Ed Walters Message-ID: <72284.287DE186@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 12 Jul 91 16:41:00 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - ParaNet(sm) A, Arvada CO Lines: 108 > From: mcn@apollo.hp.com (Michael McNulty) > Date: 9 Jul 91 19:13:37 GMT > Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Apollo Division - Chelmsford, MA > Message-ID: <1991Jul9.191337.1024@apollo.hp.com> > Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors > > > Hi, > > I have been reading this newsgroup for a little while, but this is > my first posting to it. I have a feeling that I may be bringing > up an already-discussed issue, but I'm still interested in it. I > hope it doesn't bore anyone if it is repetitive. > > What's the story with Ed Walters? He's the guy who has taken about > 40 really great pictures of what he claims are space crafts in Gulf > Breeze, Florida. He, along with is wife Frances, wrote a book and > did the lecture and TV talk show circuits. By the end of his book, > he was hinting that he has vague recollections of perhaps, maybe, > sort of having been abducted or in contact with aliens as a child > and that he was in contact with Budd Hopkins and had undergone > hypnosis. He said that he wasn't ready to publicly discuss the > results of his hypnosis sessions yet, though. I noticed in a > friend's either CUFO or MUFON magazine (whichever one of them was > sort of originally backing Ed for awhile), that he claimed to have > later discovered a crop circle in his neighborhood. The last thing > I heard of him, he was defending himself against charges that models > of the crafts were found in his house after he moved. Ed does claim that he was abducted as part of the difficulty he experienced with the aliens. His case was studied by the late Dr. Dan Overlade, including video tapes made during his regression sessions with Dr. Overlade. This whole mess is embroiled in controversy. The reasons for this are numerous. First, MUFON, the so-called "scientific UFO investigative organization," botched several things procedurally in their investigation. It has also been alleged that the principle investigators took their own preconceived ideas about what UFOs are and forced it into the outcome of this case. In all of the separate incidents where MUFON was involved heavily, not one of their investigators managed to photograph the object, even though they were in close proximity to the sightings, and around Ed. The business with the model that was found is also extremely suspect, although there has been no decent reporting done of this find to my knowledge. There are charges flying back and forth that someone planted the model to make Ed look like a hoaxer, and of course, Ed denies this charge completely. > My criticism (an odd one, I'll admit) is that his pictures are almost > TOO good. It's just hard for me to believe that he got pictures this > good and that up close. I have a feeling that if they were legit, > someone (AP, New York Times) would be paying a little more attention > to him. What we have here are photographs that *are* too good to be true. But, more than that, we have a well-known UFO organization, an optical physicist, a leading abduction researcher, and a host of other people advancing that this case represents contact from an extraterrestrial civilization, all without one shred of proof, other than photographs, which can't tell us anything. In my opinion, it is not the photographs that are at issue here, it is the circumstances surrounding the way that they were arrived at, the person making the report, and the organization that was entrusted to do their job after several years of practice in collecting and analyzing data scientifically. Our organization approached Dr. Robert Nathan of JPL about these photographs, and he stated that he was almost certain that they were representative of trickery. > What do most people think of him? Is he respected or is he considered > a pretty good hoaxer who just hasn't been caught yet? Or has he been > caught and I missed it? My feeling is that he started this off as a > joke and it ballooned out of his control until he couldn't contain it > anymore and he had to go along with it or he'd look foolish. Zan Overall, a noted UFO researcher in California, has done an exhaustive study on Ed's background. A couple of years prior to the Gulf Breeze fiasco, Ed used to entertain the neighborhood kids at his home. He has a son and a daughter, and they used to conduct seances "for fun," which during the seances, Ed would take photographs (you got it, with a Polaroid) of the kids sitting in a circle chanting the 23rd Psalms backwards. Allegedly, a "demon" would show up in the picture around the kid that was selected by this demon and it would follow this person around for the duration of the night. He seriously frightened a girl one evening, who has later testified to this fact. Additionally, Ed made a statement to one of the guys in the crowd that he was going to do the "ultimate hoax" someday. Of course, I just bet Ed didn't figure on this mess coming out of the past to haunt him, but it has, and the alleged "ghost" photo is making the rounds through the UFO community. It sounds like the intent to hoax was present. Bottom line...the UFO research community has been damaged by this whole mess. Why? Because as the world watches, MUFON has begun a smear campaign against anyone who has taken a dissenting viewpoint of this case. The Interntional Director told me that he was "tired of the trash that people were putting out about Gulf Breeze." He has removed from administrative or staff duties, several noted researchers because they were not sold on Gulf Breeze. Finally, MUFON and Dr. Bruce Maccabee accepted money from Ed Walters for their part in this case. These funds were paid out of the book proceeds. In a field where credibility is number one concern, it seems that there has been a very poor showing of this for the world to see. Whatever Gulf Breeze represents, it is certain that it has nothing to do with UFOs. Hope this helps. Mike -- Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG Article: 1212 of alt.alien.visitors Path: ns-mx!uunet!wuarchive!sdd.hp.com!caen!hellgate.utah.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: About Roswell And The Govt. Coverup Message-ID: <72286.287DE18B@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 12 Jul 91 16:48:00 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - ParaNet(sm) A, Arvada CO Lines: 28 > From: 00195@tanus.oz.au (Brian Evans) > Date: 10 Jul 91 02:36:03 GMT > Organization: People-Net [tanus], Melbourne, Australia > Message-ID: <316@jabaru.oz.au> > Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors > > As a follow on, I can only sit and wonder what information has been > gained > from the research the US government would have conducted on the aliens > and > their crashed ship. What additional information could the US government > be > withholding about further incidents of this type since 1947? Greetings down under! I would just about bet that there is a lot of technology which we are becoming very familiar with that could have been gleaned from research such as the crash of 1947. Mike -- Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG Article: 1214 of alt.alien.visitors Path: ns-mx!uunet!wuarchive!sdd.hp.com!caen!hellgate.utah.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Klas In Las Vegas... Message-ID: <72287.287DE18C@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 12 Jul 91 16:49:00 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - ParaNet(sm) A, Arvada CO Lines: 23 > From: marz@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (martin.zam) > Date: 10 Jul 91 13:26:20 GMT > Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories > Message-ID: <1991Jul10.132620.225@cbfsb.att.com> > Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors > > Has anyone got a video tape copy of the 9 part series that > George Knapp did for KLAS in Las Vegas, Nevada? After reading > discussions on this news group, I called them for a copy. They > said that they had to refuse, due to the overwhelming demand > for copies. This 9 part series severely overloaded their ability > to dub copies. Contact me at mcorbin@scicom.alphacdc.com and I will see what I can do for you. Mike -- Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!crdgw1!ge-dab!tarpit!bilver!dona From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal,talk.religion.newage Subject: Re: The Pleiadians on Crop Circles Message-ID: <1991Jul13.055947.16859@bilver.uucp> Date: 13 Jul 91 05:59:47 GMT References: <14384@goofy.Apple.COM> <1991Jul12.104802.18803@nntp-server.caltech.edu> Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL Lines: 38 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:1217 sci.skeptic:12940 alt.paranormal:2164 talk.religion.newage:6081 >>> HARMONICS OF FREQUENCY MODULATION AND THE HUMAN >>> DNA >>> November 15 , 1990 Terman Auditorium, Stanford University >>> Palo Alto, California >>> >>> Audience Question: I am curious about the phenomenon of the >>> circles in the fields in England? >>> >>> The Pleiadians: >>> We will speak briefly about that. How many of you have heard us >>> talk about the, language of light geometry? Intelligence, of >> >>etc., etc., >> >>And I thought my post about Heaven's BBS was amusing... >> >>I have a question for the Pleiadians-- if they're responsible for crop >>circles, then can they create one, on demand, in a particular shape for us at >>a specific place and time? I'd like to see a perfectly hexagonal one, myself. >> >>Until they pass such a simple test, then I'll assume someone's yaking our >>chains about these circle thingies. > >Hey, if they're so all-powerful, I want them to make one in the shape of a >Mandelbrot set. >-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Carl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL Keep on scoffing you skeptics..but use gentle words..you will have to eat them one day. :-) Don -- -* Don Allen *- InterNet: dona@bilver.UUCP // Amiga..for the best of us. USnail: 1818G Landing Dr, Sanford Fl 32771 \X/ Why use anything else? :-) UUCP: ..uunet!tarpit!bilver!vicstoy!dona 0110 0110 0110 Just say NO! Illuminati < MJ-12|Greys|TLC|CFR|FED|Bilderbergs > UN = "New World Order" Article: 1218 of alt.alien.visitors Path: ns-mx!uunet!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!rutgers!cbmvax!amix!vanth!jms From: jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Field Circles Message-ID: Date: 13 Jul 91 04:03:24 GMT References: <3955@sirius.ucs.adelaide.edu.au> <1991Jul8.055257.896@world.std.com> <1991Jul9.014812.7979@bilver.uucp> Organization: The Search For TERRESTRIAL Intelligence Lines: 37 In article <1991Jul9.014812.7979@bilver.uucp> dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) writes: >In article <1991Jul8.055257.896@world.std.com> kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes: >>In article <3955@sirius.ucs.adelaide.edu.au> ijameson@adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au.oz.au (Iain Jameson) writes: >>> >>>According to a news item I just heard, "Field Circles" have been >>>produced in the laboratory. >>>It was done in Japan using plasma fireballs (ionized air). >>> >>>Of course this will have to be confirmed and duplicated. >>>But we all know enough about science to realise this. >> >>Gee, how many laboratories contain fields? My feed has been in yoyo mode for a few days and I missed the original two articles. But could someone post more details on this news report? Where did it appear? The closest thing I've heard is that someone, I can't remember where, has succeeded in producing plasma vortices and, guess what, they naturally spin off little satellite vortices. But this was all under very controlled conditions. They weren't turned loose on a field, and in fact I don't have any idea how they *could* be. Not to mention the fact that they weren't anywhere near the size of the circles! I've also heard, on ParaNet, that someone has discovered that there is a certain energy level at which grass can be softened and bent, but not killed, with microwaves. I think the experiment was done in an ordinary microwave oven, and it wasn't the power that was the determining factor but the time. Now, this is all very interesting, but how do you get a really *big* plasma vortex in the open air? And what causes it to make anything other than circles? -- * From the disk of: | jms@vanth.uucp | "Let's become Jim Shaffer, Jr. | amix.commodore.com!vanth!jms | alive again." 37 Brook Street | uunet!cbmvax!amix!vanth!jms | Montgomery, PA 17752 | 72750.2335@compuserve.com | --Yes Article: 1221 of alt.alien.visitors Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!news.cs.indiana.edu!att!att!fang!tarpit!bilver!dona From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: About Roswell and the Govt. Coverup Message-ID: <1991Jul11.235622.6087@bilver.uucp> Date: 11 Jul 91 23:56:22 GMT References: <316@jabaru.oz.au> Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL Lines: 40 In article <316@jabaru.oz.au> 00195@tanus.oz.au (Brian Evans) writes: > >johnr@systech.bjorn.COM (John Reed) writes: >>I am not an expert in UFO-ology (or whatever it's called), but to >>me, as a layman, the evidence seems overwhelming that a crash happened >>at Roswell, and UFO's are definitely for real. >> >>The frustrating part for me is that all of the facts have been covered up. >>Just what is the truth? What the f*** is going on? >> >>If a crash occured at Roswell, and aliens were recovered, then to me, >>this would be the most significant event that has occurred in all of >>human history. Does anyone else agree with this viewpoint?? > >I would also have to agree that based on fact a craft did crash at Roswell >back in 1947. There has been a lot of written information (third party) >detailing investigations regarding this incident. A new book is about to be >released on the Roswell incident which discloses some fantastic facts about >the incident. The authors have spent a considerable amount of time >researching the incident and in light of the new evidence and information >contained in the book (providing it is correct) I am convinced that an alien >craft DID crash at Roswell. Your viewpoint regarding an important event in There is a book out now called "UFO Crash At Roswell" and I would recommend it _most highly_. The authors are Kevin Randle, Capt, USAF-Ret and Don Schmitt. Published by AVON and available in paperback. This book is a MUST READ for anyone interested in finding out all the details. The book names PLENTY of names. This book,in my opinion, is the ~smoking gun~ that exposes the Govt COVERUP. Don -- -* Don Allen *- InterNet: dona@bilver.UUCP // Amiga..for the best of us. USnail: 1818G Landing Dr, Sanford Fl 32771 \X/ Why use anything else? :-) UUCP: ..uunet!tarpit!bilver!vicstoy!dona 0110 0110 0110 Just say NO! Illuminati < MJ-12|Greys|TLC|CFR|FED|Bilderbergs > UN = "New World Order" Article: 1222 of alt.alien.visitors Path: ns-mx!uunet!wuarchive!uwm.edu!linac!att!att!fang!tarpit!bilver!dona From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: About Roswell and the Govt. Coverup Message-ID: <1991Jul12.000115.6189@bilver.uucp> Date: 12 Jul 91 00:01:15 GMT References: <316@jabaru.oz.au> <4480@anasaz.UUCP> Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL Lines: 35 In article <4480@anasaz.UUCP> billy@anasaz.UUCP (Bill Moore) writes: >In article <316@jabaru.oz.au> 00195@tanus.oz.au (Brian Evans) writes: >> >>johnr@systech.bjorn.COM (John Reed) writes: >>>I am not an expert in UFO-ology (or whatever it's called), but to >>>me, as a layman, the evidence seems overwhelming that a crash happened >>>at Roswell, and UFO's are definitely for real. > >What evidence do you know about that supports the crashed UFO claim? Aside >from flimsy hearsay statements, as far as I know, there has been nothing. We >know something happened in Roswell and that its a military secret, there's >ample proof of that. But how do you get from military secret to UFO? > >... stuff deleted ... Mr Moore..it is plenty obvious to me that you haven't got a bloody clue! Go get some books and do your research!! I would most heartily recommend the Randle/Schmitt book, "UFO Crash at Roswell" that just came out in paperback and published by AVON books. Not to mention that Stanton Friedman has been also working on this for years... Don -- -* Don Allen *- InterNet: dona@bilver.UUCP // Amiga..for the best of us. USnail: 1818G Landing Dr, Sanford Fl 32771 \X/ Why use anything else? :-) UUCP: ..uunet!tarpit!bilver!vicstoy!dona 0110 0110 0110 Just say NO! Illuminati < MJ-12|Greys|TLC|CFR|FED|Bilderbergs > UN = "New World Order" Article: 1226 of alt.alien.visitors Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wuarchive!waikato.ac.nz!comp.vuw.ac.nz!am.dsir.govt.nz!marcamd!mercury!kcbbs!kc From: sheepsqueezer@kcbbs.gen.nz (Colin Jones) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Drive System & Navigation Message-ID: <1991Jul15.172342.485@kcbbs.gen.nz> Date: 15 Jul 91 17:23:42 GMT References: <14572@goofy.Apple.COM> Lines: 13 Organisation: Kappa Crucis Unix BBS, Auckland, New Zealand I seem to remember that when Don Allen posted a list of MUFONet files there were some interesting-looking ones about gravity/antigravity (& I think one about vacuum energy) in the general science section. Perhaps it would be possible for someone to post them on the net? (Don are you up to it? :-) Then all of us who are interested in drives could discuss them. I'd do it myself, but unfortunately I can't get there from here :-) Sheepsqueezer @kcbbs.gen.nz ---------------------------- The Four National Areas have been tested... These tests have proved that the planet is immune to truth. -- 'Shikasta', Doris Lessing Article: 1230 of alt.alien.visitors Path: ns-mx!uunet!cbmvax!amix!vanth!jms From: jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: what about the last 44 years ? Message-ID: Date: 14 Jul 91 03:45:52 GMT References: <1991Jul10.084842.24362@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au> Organization: The Search For TERRESTRIAL Intelligence Lines: 18 There have allegedly been other crashes since Roswell. You're just not hearing about them outside the U.S., probably since Roswell was the first and its had time to spread. Roswell is also, to the best of my knowledge, the best-researched and documented. (If it wasn't before, it will be after this summer's book releases!) It's also probably one of the most credible. At Roswell, we know that *something* crashed. Some of the others are just based on stories from private citizens, with no newspaper articles etc. to say that *anything* actually happened. There were (allegedly) a few more in the west in the '40s and (I think) '50s, and one in Pennsylvania in the '60s. There are also *extremely* dubious stories of very recent crashes in Canada and South Africa. -- * From the disk of: | jms@vanth.uucp | "Let's become Jim Shaffer, Jr. | amix.commodore.com!vanth!jms | alive again." 37 Brook Street | uunet!cbmvax!amix!vanth!jms | Montgomery, PA 17752 | 72750.2335@compuserve.com | --Yes Article: 1232 of alt.alien.visitors Path: ns-mx!uunet!cbmvax!amix!vanth!jms From: jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: working on a FAQL Message-ID: Date: 14 Jul 91 17:20:04 GMT References: <8988@awdprime.UUCP> <1991Jul03.163719.27447@ariel.unm.edu> <1991Jul10.053754.20691@bilver.uucp> Organization: The Search For TERRESTRIAL Intelligence Lines: 29 In article <1991Jul10.053754.20691@bilver.uucp> dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) writes: >In article jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer) writes: >> >>Not to the best of my knowledge, but we should start one! A sort of FAQL >>for this newsgroup. >> >That's an idea that I'm toying with myself. Frequently, people will ask: > >What are the greys? Where do they come from? What IS a "grey"? etc,ect.. > >Hmmmmmm...I'll get to work on some parts..maybe you could work on something >too? I'd like to do something of the sort, but I really don't know how much to do. For example, I don't want to end up writing a comprehensive history of alien/human interaction in the 20th century. If I think of anything, I'll post it. Let's see, we've already defined "grey" and "Nord." We probably need a list of crash/retrieval cases (again, *briefly*), "What is MJ-12/MAJI/MAJIC/Majority/Majestic?", "Who are the Pleiadians?" (this is *not* my favorite area, and probably wouldn't get favorable treatment from me), who are Lear, Cooper, English, Grace, Bennewitz, Lazar, Walters, Meier, etc. -- * From the disk of: | jms@vanth.uucp | "Let's become Jim Shaffer, Jr. | amix.commodore.com!vanth!jms | alive again." 37 Brook Street | uunet!cbmvax!amix!vanth!jms | Montgomery, PA 17752 | 72750.2335@compuserve.com | --Yes Article: 1233 of alt.alien.visitors Path: ns-mx!uunet!cbmvax!amix!vanth!jms From: jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: ufo encounter Message-ID: Date: 14 Jul 91 17:29:48 GMT References: <625@hub.ucsb.edu> Organization: The Search For TERRESTRIAL Intelligence Lines: 26 What you have written is the basic extent of my knowledge on the subject, save for a few recent developments. For future reference, this is called the Cash/Landrum case. It was covered on "Unsolved Mysteries" this year, and on "That's Incredible". Otherwise it doesn't seem to get a lot of press, which is unbelievable because it's one of the most shocking accounts that is actually credible enough to not be rejected outright. The recent developments of which I spoke concern its coverage on "UFO Coverup Live!" a few years ago in which the victims were told that it was a recovered craft being flown by our government, and an incident last year or the year before in which one of the victims placed a full-page ad in a Gulf Breeze, Fla. newspaper saying that the aliens are Satanic and a menace to the human race. There has been speculation, of course, that it was a nuclear-powered aircraft developed by our own government. Stanton Friedman has said that we had such a program at one time. But it was supposed to have been cancelled long before the Cash/Landrum incident, and I don't think the government would have been stupid enough to fly something like that around in the open. -- * From the disk of: | jms@vanth.uucp | "Let's become Jim Shaffer, Jr. | amix.commodore.com!vanth!jms | alive again." 37 Brook Street | uunet!cbmvax!amix!vanth!jms | Montgomery, PA 17752 | 72750.2335@compuserve.com | --Yes Article: 1237 of alt.alien.visitors Path: ns-mx!uunet!spool.mu.edu!rex!uflorida!mailer.cc.fsu.edu!fsu1.cc.fsu.edu!jofre From: jofre@fsu1.cc.fsu.edu (Carlos Jofre) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: That Face on Mars!!! Message-ID: <1991Jul15.134445.12145@mailer.cc.fsu.edu> Date: 15 Jul 91 13:50:28 GMT References: <1991Jul10.110634.16810@lynx.CS.ORST.EDU> <15481@vpk2.UUCP> <1991Jul11.223743.1669@lynx.CS.ORST.EDU> Sender: news@mailer.cc.fsu.edu (Usenet News File Owner) Reply-To: jofre@fsu1.cc.fsu.edu Distribution: alt Organization: Florida State University Lines: 23 News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4 Nntp-Posting-Host: fsu1.cc.fsu.edu In article <1991Jul11.223743.1669@lynx.CS.ORST.EDU>, woodc@jacobs.CS.ORST.EDU (Chris Wood) writes... >In article <15481@vpk2.UUCP> craig@vpk2.ATT.COM (Craig Campbell) writes: >>What about those pictograms scattered about? You know, the bugs etched into >>the desert or some such thing. Of course there are those who argue that >>aliens created these as well. >> >>Go figure... >> >>craig > > I meant structures which were built/carved to honor a leader, etc... All >these man made structures such as the carvings in Mount Rushmore, or statues >such as the Statue of Liberty are built facing horizontally. I do not agree >with what many people say about the designs of insects and animals drawn in >the ground. ... [STUFF DELETED] Has anyone else thought that maybe the face might at one point been upright but after thousands or even miilion of years of erotion finally came to rest where it is now? Kind of like a Muai from Easter Island falling on its back after a catastrophic storm... Just a thought... Carlos Jofre Article: 1242 of alt.alien.visitors Path: ns-mx!uunet!spool.mu.edu!mips!pacbell.com!att!att!dptg!sodium!mcripps From: mcripps@sodium.att.com (16AW20000[ehs]-Mike Cripps(HO0000)T100) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: ufo encounter Message-ID: <1991Jul15.165533.14428@sodium.att.com> Date: 15 Jul 91 16:55:33 GMT References: <625@hub.ucsb.edu> Organization: AT&T BL Middletown/Lincroft NJ USA Lines: 25 In article , jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer) writes: > There has been speculation, of course, that it was a nuclear-powered > aircraft developed by our own government. Stanton Friedman has said that > we had such a program at one time. But it was supposed to have been > cancelled long before the Cash/Landrum incident, and I don't think the > government would have been stupid enough to fly something like that around > in the open. Here's some more wild speculation, with little basis in fact... Last time I read about X-ray lasers (being studied for SDI), the idea was to blow up a nuke to generate the energy to pump the lasing element. The problem is that the whole thing is destroyed in the process. Now, I seem to recall that they had successfully tested an X-ray laser a few years ago (I believe this was from a N.Y. Times article, and possibly some TV program that showed the effects, i.e., a big hole being melted in the ground). Could it be possible that they have devised a device that uses a controlled nuclear reaction to pump the laser element, and that the melted asphalt was the result of the beam? I agree it would be stupid to fly something like this around, but we *are* talking about the govt. here :-) End of wild speculation... Mike Cripps mcripps@sodium.att.com Article: 1246 of alt.alien.visitors Path: ns-mx!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!asuvax!anasaz!billy From: billy@anasaz.UUCP (Bill Moore) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: About Roswell and the Govt. Coverup Message-ID: <4494@anasaz.UUCP> Date: 15 Jul 91 17:07:30 GMT References: <316@jabaru.oz.au> <4480@anasaz.UUCP> <1991Jul12.000115.6189@bilver.uucp> Reply-To: billy@anasaz.UUCP (Bill Moore) Organization: Anasazi, Inc. Lines: 41 In article <1991Jul12.000115.6189@bilver.uucp> dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) writes: ]>In article <4480@anasaz.UUCP> billy@anasaz.UUCP (Bill Moore) writes: ]>>In article <316@jabaru.oz.au> 00195@tanus.oz.au (Brian Evans) writes: ]>>> ]>>>johnr@systech.bjorn.COM (John Reed) writes: ]>>>>I am not an expert in UFO-ology (or whatever it's called), but to ]>>>>me, as a layman, the evidence seems overwhelming that a crash happened ]>>>>at Roswell, and UFO's are definitely for real. ]>> ]>>What evidence do you know about that supports the crashed UFO claim? Aside ]>>from flimsy hearsay statements, as far as I know, there has been nothing. We ]>>know something happened in Roswell and that its a military secret, there's ]>>ample proof of that. But how do you get from military secret to UFO? ]>> ]>>... stuff deleted ... ]> ]>Mr Moore..it is plenty obvious to me that you haven't got a bloody clue! ]> ]>Go get some books and do your research!! ]> I have read the book, Don, and, FYI, many, many more. I've got books, video tapes, reports, etc., I've been to sites and have interviewed witnesses like Lazar, etal. But you're right about me not having a clue. I couldn't tell you what's going on but I do know its not little green men from another planet who fly around the universe in UFOs. I claim there is _NO_ evidence to support this conclusion. ]>I would most heartily recommend the Randle/Schmitt book, "UFO Crash ]>at Roswell" that just came out in paperback and published by AVON ]>books. Why? What do you think Randle and Schmitt added to this? We already knew something happened out there and its a military secret. Randle and Schmitt added more evidence but we don't need any more evidence about the military coverup. What we need is more about the alleged UFO crash. Randle and Schmitt added new second hand hearsay from an unnamed source but I found it flimsy. Is this what impressed you? Marcel's testimonty isn't new (I've had the tape for years) and neither is LaPaz's. Is there anything else? What do you think is the most compelling testimony or evidence in this case? (Not the military coverup part, the UFO part.) --Bill-- Article: 1247 of alt.alien.visitors Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!ukc!slxsys!ibmpcug!demon!news From: dingbat@cix.compulink.co.uk (Codesmiths) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: ufo encounter Message-ID: <1991Jul15.205827.12021@demon.co.uk> Date: 15 Jul 91 20:58:27 GMT Sender: news@demon.co.uk (C-News Owner) Reply-To: Codesmiths Organization: Gated to News by demon.co.uk Lines: 35 In-Reply-To: jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer) I know very little about the US nuclear aircraft program, but it certainly did exist. It was a typical Cold-War Strangelove idea, to have a long duration nuclear bomber fleet continuously airborne, just outside Warpac airspace. There were two aspects to the program: Up to 17 prototype nuclear aircraft engines were produced during 1957 - 1961. Air was passed through a reactor & heated, forming a jet engine. 2 are still in existence, at the Idaho Falls National Engineering Laboratory. They were tested on ground based test stands (the exhaust was vented through a vertical chimney), but never flew. Over a billion dollars were spent on the program, before it was axed by JFK. A B36 variant, the B36H, flew with an on-board reactor. It was operated in flight on several occasions. I don't know if this reactor was one of the jet engine reactors, but no thrust wasa ever produced. Photos of this aircraft, together with its attendant shielded servicing vehicles may be found in a commonly available book. I don't have accurate title, or ISBN, but it's something like "Aero engines of the world" & most aviation bookshops have it. Technical problems made nuclear aircraft unworkable (then), and eventually the program was overtaken by the ICBM. Article: 1249 of alt.alien.visitors Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!ukc!ox-prg!oxuniv!ameij From: ameij@vax.oxford.ac.uk Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: About Roswell And The Govt. Coverup Message-ID: <1991Jul15.120901.1089@vax.oxford.ac.uk> Date: 15 Jul 91 11:09:00 GMT References: <72286.287DE18B@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Organization: Oxford University Computing Service Lines: 13 In article <72286.287DE18B@paranet.FIDONET.ORG>, Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) writes: > > I would just about bet that there is a lot of technology which we are becoming > very familiar with that could have been gleaned from research such as the > crash of 1947. > Well, it's certainly looking as if they took the cold fusion recipe down wrongly... Love and kisses, Jan Article: 1250 of alt.alien.visitors Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!ukc!ox-prg!oxuniv!ameij From: ameij@vax.oxford.ac.uk Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: what about the last 44 years ?READ/NEW Message-ID: <1991Jul15.121750.1091@vax.oxford.ac.uk> Date: 15 Jul 91 11:17:49 GMT References: <1991Jul10.084842.24362@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au> Organization: Oxford University Computing Service Lines: 15 In article , jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer) writes: > There have allegedly been other crashes since Roswell. > > ... > > There were (allegedly) a few more in the west in the '40s and (I think) > '50s, and one in Pennsylvania in the '60s. There are also *extremely* > dubious stories of very recent crashes in Canada and South Africa. > For beings who can traverse the unimaginable vastness of space (albeit in order mainly to dance in cornfields and take teach-yourself-abattoir-skills courses) they really don't seem to competant at landing, do they? Jan Path: ns-mx!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!emory!ra!cee1 From: cee1@ra.MsState.Edu (The Chuckmeister) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: My enounters, opinions Message-ID: <1201@ra.MsState.Edu> Date: 16 Jul 91 17:29:43 GMT Organization: Mississippi State University Lines: 66 This is my first time to post here, but I have held back so much stuff so long I had too.. This will involve questions/comments for anyone and everyone [gov't also] to comment on. 1. I had my first 'UFO encounter about 4 days ago when coming back from my Church's mission trip. Riding home from church to home with my father. This was on July 13, 1991. We were about 500 yds from our driveway along the highway when all of the sudden [half a mile??] when we looked up and saw this huge ultra-bright light [middle of the afternoon, clear sky - almost due west about 30 degrees up]. My dad was really shocked, he thought it might be landing lights of a plane.. but that bright? with NO outline of wings or anything. There was a small low-flying Cessna around there [we have a small landing strip here in Starkville, MS.. 30 miles from Columbus AFB [ATC]. We could not figure it out.. it got brighter and brighter and brighter like coming closer, not ever moving from its relative postion, then as we both gazed at it still driving, it slowly 'died out' and baout 45 sec. later it was gone, no plane or nothing. We still can't figure it out, but as I think about it, I have always thought over the years I have thought I have sen in-clear-daylight- very bright lights [not by obvious sunlight reflection] but never thought anything about it. We are still baffled.. anyone have any thoughts or comments.. Has this happend to you? 2. About 3 weeks ago abouve our house all-day one day, there was this constant helicoptering around. After about the 2nd time 'these' copters flew over my family went out side to see. In front was an unmarked solid drab/black copter resembling one of Magnum PI [Hughes??] anyway about 5-10 seconds later 4-5 at least totally unmarked looked-like Huey Cobras? flew behind. This went on for hours and hours, low to the ground. I asked a friend about thsi unmarked stuff [ I have heard of unmarked ones following UFO's or govt' test UFOs etc..] and he said the only unmarked copters are like a secret FBI ground that 'doesn't exist]. My mother feared it was like Gov't looking for drugs, etc.. but i dont know.. There were not dozens of copters just a few totally black/drab unmarked. No Army bases near hear, we have Meridian Naval Air Station and I think one in Jackson. :) Is this a typical encounter of others. Thanks for any input. 3. I firmly beleive UFOs/intelligent life exist, the evidence is overwhelming, I think the most documented phonomena in world history and the GOVT is cov ering up. My personal belief is that these creatures are demons/evil spirits/ in some physical bodies, as it seems by other posts, others beleive this also. I am a Christian and have tried to weigh the evidence of what they MIGHT be, and that is the only logical conclusion I could come up with. 4. What are these 'new' findings of JFK being shot from his car? 5. What is this about a coverup about MLK Jr? 6. Underground bases in the Colorados etc.. 7. ANyone on here from Gulf Breeze and see UFO's all the time? I'd like some info on stuff. 8. Is there an ftp site with archives of old _arge_ postings of stuff, the ones like with 700 or so lines of stuff, I would be interested. 9. Arer there any UFO boards that I could subscribe to, any info would be helpful. Thanks to any who comment etc etc. -- cee1@ra.msstate.edu -- Still thinking of a new sign Article: 1263 of alt.alien.visitors Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!crdgw1!ge-dab!tarpit!bilver!dona From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: About Roswell and the Govt. Coverup Message-ID: <1991Jul17.054018.7055@bilver.uucp> Date: 17 Jul 91 05:40:18 GMT References: <4480@anasaz.UUCP> <1991Jul12.000115.6189@bilver.uucp> <4494@anasaz.UUCP> Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL Lines: 137 >]>>from flimsy hearsay statements, as far as I know, there has been nothing. We >]>>know something happened in Roswell and that its a military secret, there's >]>>ample proof of that. But how do you get from military secret to UFO? >]>> >]>>... stuff deleted ... >]> >]>Mr Moore..it is plenty obvious to me that you haven't got a bloody clue! >]> >]>Go get some books and do your research!! >]> >I have read the book, Don, and, FYI, many, many more. I've got books, video >tapes, reports, etc., I've been to sites and have interviewed witnesses like >Lazar, etal. But you're right about me not having a clue. I couldn't tell >you what's going on but I do know its not little green men from another >planet who fly around the universe in UFOs. I claim there is _NO_ evidence >to support this conclusion. >]>I would most heartily recommend the Randle/Schmitt book, "UFO Crash >]>at Roswell" that just came out in paperback and published by AVON >]>books. >Why? What do you think Randle and Schmitt added to this? We already knew >something happened out there and its a military secret. Randle and Schmitt >added more evidence but we don't need any more evidence about the military >coverup. What we need is more about the alleged UFO crash. > >Randle and Schmitt added new second hand hearsay from an unnamed source but >I found it flimsy. Is this what impressed you? Marcel's testimonty isn't >new (I've had the tape for years) and neither is LaPaz's. Is there anything >else? What do you think is the most compelling testimony or evidence in >this case? (Not the military coverup part, the UFO part.) > >--Bill-- Hmmmm..You piqued my interest Bill..please answer me a question..are you the Bill Moore that I see occasionally on the Fido UFO echo? Or are you THE Bill Moore that has admitted to being a GOVT dis-info agent? Or none of the above? It's hard to tell you Moore's apart :-) Now, if you be *the* Bill Moore..here's a little tidbit for you :-) This most likely came of the Fido UFO echo not to long ago..'course if you be *the* Bill Moore..then you would know something about the following: ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 06-18-91 19:55 From: Ken Willoughby I got a long letter from Paul Bennewitz in which he wanted me to put this onto bbd. I am copying verbatim what he says: --1) The Archeleta Base was raided by a Delta Force, and of the The Aliens within were killed outright. I can not vouch for some of this although I have absolute proof that it was. It is said that a General, a U.S. officer; he apparently got into an argument in that they, the Alien, were making Cocaine, instead of making humanoids. Supposedly there was 16 Tons of piled in one room. One of them, apparently, one he was talking to used a Blaze Gun, which is similar to a minature flame thrower and burned him severly. He sent his Aide to call for help and the Delta Force was there in a very short time. When they saw what happened, knowing the General had one leg near burned off, attacked in a frenzy and killed at least 120 of them. Some of the Delta Force were also burned badly, and some were lost due to shock etc.,. They were apparently making the stuff so that they could sell it on the street. In the final count, later, apparently 8 Tons of the stuff was missing. There was a covert landing strip just North of Archeleta and they were flying it out of there. The troups blew the whole operation to hell bringing down all entrances and totally destroyed the so call- plastic worms, killing those within. All instrumentation was destroyed. The whole area was closed and all people were bared from the mountain; it is now administrated by the Drug Admin- istration (U.S.), so it is finished. The air strip was plowed and barricaded. --2) About 80 escaped taking their ships with them; some were out on patrol and thus they got away. 40 some odd established thenselves in caves at Bear Mountain, in New Mexico. The rest went to what is called, THE DOME, and are still at large. --3) I have contacted the Secretary of Defense, and a Senator; also General Jaco and the new Administrator at Kirtland. Some is attached to give the Coordinates which are fairly accurate. --4) Those that are in Bear Mountain, N.W. of Magdelena are raiding raiding and attempting to gain entrance. The prime and important point is that a humanoid who is in charge by the name CARAUCHE is using a beam over the four hills area where I live and are hitting people in the nerve endings that control the stomach's Hcl, or hydrocloric acid causing the acid to come up the esophagus. Thus causing one to either throw up or become badly burned in the mouth and esophagus area. They hit at night and hit me last night. Fortunately, I had some anti acid Mallox so it reduced the pain. The odds are if they do it in this area, they will start elsewhere. They are beginning to take victims and they have no processing area yet, they are trying to sell them to other bases that still exist. They have been threatening me constantly trying to take out the computers and continue all day. It appears that they have also discovered that with a small beam that they can intrude on a person's thought WITHOUT AN IMPLANT. They started to attack me right after the raid which occurred about 2 years ago; thinking that I was the one that instigated it. That was obviously not true. They triggered the onslaught by shooting the General. They also were very angry when I turned my back on them and threw ALIEN DATA away. My reason? I just did not have a desire to study IGNORANCE of humanoids, and intend never to do any more of it. It's over with. I am sending this to you in hopes that others may be aware of what they should be on the guard for. Other than that I am finished with them. ----- Paul Bennewitz Postscript note: Ken Willoughby. When you study Paul's material, you are left with a doubt who got to him. * Origin: The Desert Dolphin WOCin New Mexico 505 523-2811 (1:305/105.0) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Now, if you _aren't_ *the* Bill Moore..than consider this just an amusement...if you are..you have a good deal of explaining to do regarding Paul Bennewitz. *My* amusement is watching all the govt MOLES and dis-info agents who think they are going un-noticed in this newsgroup, try and back-paddle as fast as they can :-) So far, I've counted 5 of em'...including one in a real prominent place. Oh,yeah...I forgot to mention the MAJIC word: HARVEST :-) :-) :-) Don -- -* Don Allen *- InterNet: dona@bilver.UUCP // Amiga..for the best of us. USnail: 1818G Landing Dr, Sanford Fl 32771 \X/ Why use anything else? :-) UUCP: ..uunet!tarpit!bilver!vicstoy!dona 0110 0110 0110 Just say NO! Illuminati < MJ-12|Greys|TLC|CFR|FED|Bilderbergs > UN = "New World Order" Article: 2187 of alt.paranormal Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!crdgw1!ge-dab!tarpit!bilver!dona From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal,misc.headlines,alt.conspiracy Subject: INFO: Recent MUFON Conference recap - Chicago Keywords: UFO Message-ID: <1991Jul17.061923.7563@bilver.uucp> Date: 17 Jul 91 06:19:23 GMT Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL Lines: 221 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:1264 alt.paranormal:2187 misc.headlines:17093 alt.conspiracy:6427 The following is a summary of the just-passed MUFON symposium held at the Hyatt Regency O'Hare Hotel, in Chicago. -----------Begin Included Text ------------------------------------------ MUFONET-BBS NETWORK MUTUAL UFO NETWORK ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ CONFERENCE RECAP ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 1991 MUFON INTERNATIONAL UFO SYMPOSIUM ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Held At The Hyatt Regency O'Hare Hotel ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ July 5,6,7 1991 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The 1991 MUFON Symposium, hosted by Illinois - MUFON, started out on Friday with a press conference of local and national reporters from newspapers and syndicated TV, with Walt Andrus as the primary speaker, at around 1:00 pm. The "Get Acquainted" reception started at 6:00, with many in attendance, and lots of food/snacks spread on two huge tables in the large Rosemont ballroom of the hotel. The majority of the guest speakers were there, as were many MUFON members and others who have an interest in UFOs or an aspect of the phenomena. This reception lasted until around 9:00 pm. Friday was more or less a check-in day for those arriving from other locales. Saturday was the start of the symposium, with the affair opening up with a welcome from Illinois - MUFON to all from Thomas Stults, State Director, and the acting "Master of Ceremonies", Forest Crawford, Assistant State Director. (I won't include the actual times of the presentations, since they were covered in the MUFON Journal). Next were the speakers with their presentations: DENNIS STACY: Dennis made a presentation concerning Crop Circles, going into the history of the phenomena, designs, associate phenomena such as luminous shapes and colors, animal reactions, high-pitched or humming sounds, electromagnetic interference effects, sensations of 'invisible' fields, etc., and the theory of possible intelligent development and/or communication. ZECHARIA SITCHIN: Zecharia's presentation focused on the theory of a connection between the writings in the bible as a sort of log of visitation of a civilization from another planet, the presence of a 12th planet, the connection between the number 12 and the ancient Greeks, bible, and findings from ancient cities such as Mesopot- amia, Assyria and Babylon, to name a few. MICHAEL D. SWORDS: Michael's presentation concentrated on the hypothesis of extraterrestrial presence in the makeup of the UFO enigma, covering items such composition of meteorites, atmospheric makeup of other planets along the possibility of sustaining some type of 'life', biochemical occurrences, genetically/chromosomal possibilities, biophysical structures and E.T., and "what if" other forms of life are in existence. LINDA MOULTON HOWE: Linda's presentation included a slide presentation of animal mutilations along with discussion of alien intervention of life forms on our planet, motives behind the abduction and mutilation of animals and humans, and touched on the roles of abductees/ contactees and the communication they provide concerning the presence and motives of these intruders. JOHN A. ALTSHULER: John's presentation also pertained to animal mutilations and the resultant tissue changes found over the last 24 years, in animals such as cattle, deer and rabbits. He discusses the variants of tissue alterations associated with predation, cultist killings, accidental death, and that area of "other" which comprises much of what Linda and John are deeply involved in, alien intervention of life on this planet. JEAN-PIERRE PETIT: This presentation focused on the recent UFO wave now occurring in Belgium, with thousands of witnesses, and one wave covering two days, November 29-30, 1989, which had over 900 cases of UFO sightings with the craft within 1000 feet of the witnesses in each instance. Jean discussed radar observation of objects, F- 16's being out maneuvered by craft, although the aircraft had 'locked-on' to the target, a discussion of the propulsion techniques of UFOs, and the effect of air movement from a UFO as opposed to conventional craft. JOHN S. CARPENTER: John's presentation focused on the clinical aspect of the abductee phenomena, what observations are required from the professional areas concerning diagnosing an abduction patient, what can be ruled out in efforts of ascertaining the actual causes of a patients trauma, the credibility factor of a patient, hoaxes, and the application of hypnosis as a tool for patient/doctor interaction. STANTON T. FRIEDMAN: Stanton's discussion concentrated on new information obtained from 1989 onward concerning crashed craft, and touched on past history of information from various sources and the media representation of UFO information. Also discussed was some of the 'behind-the-scenes' in the making of the documentaries "UFO Cover UP? Live", "UFOs Are Real" and the "Unsolved Mysteries" segments. A brief discussion of William Moore and his past and present role in the scenario of investigations was included. COLIN ANDREWS: Colin did not present a published paper for the symposium, yet offered a thrilling highlight to the proceedings when he showed a video, shot from a hillside by a couple in England, of a obviously metallic disk, approximately 6-10 inches in diameter, weaving in, out, over and thru a crop field in daylight, reflecting the sunlight as it maneuvered around the field, crossed over to another field, was witnessed also by a farmer on a tractor in the field, and lasted (on videotape) for 4-5 minutes. To say the least, this was amazing! Colin also presented an audiotape of sounds originating as a crop circle was being formed, and discerning the presence of two distinct sounds, or notes, or pitches. MICHAEL CHOROST: Michael's paper focused on the theory of the investigation of Crop Circles, ie., "Cereology", becoming a science and scientific pursuit onto itself, based on the variety and complexity of the information presently on hand concerning the formation of circles. He concentrated on the formation of a 'structured' foundation of scientists and researchers allowing interaction of their knowledge and findings for all involved in the field. Discussed were the past and present state of the investigations and facts uncovered by many people and the complexity of the different shapes the circles are now taking. C.B. SCOTT JONES: This discussion focused on the government involvement in UFO information, suppression and dis-information, collaboration of other governments with the U.S. government in cover-ups and sharing of UFO-related informations and cases, and the analysis and problems in handling a actual piece of metal from a craft, and the findings found from the analysis, and the formation of an international exchange policy for sharing research. DAVID M. JACOBS: Dr. Jacobs dissertation dealt with the clinical and psychological aspects of the abductee phenomenon, the separating of reality from imagination in the witnesses/patients, the complexity of hypnosis in ascertaining valid retrieval of information, abductee's accounts of their experiences, descriptions of aliens, conversations held with their captors, channeled communication, interpretation of alien thoughts, and the relationship of an abductee's experiences with objective reality and their perception of same. GENE M. PHILLIPS: This discussion concentrated on the "Plain of Nazca", located between the towns of Palpa and Nazca, in the province of Ica, approximately 300 miles south of Lima, Peru. The presentation was basically a rebuttal to the Nova TV Program titled "The Case of the Ancient Astronauts", originally shown by Public Broadcasting Stations in 1978, and aired repeatedly thereafter. Mr. Phillips discussed the history of the findings at the Plain, and theorized at the reason for their existence. BRUCE S. MACCABEE: Dr. Maccabee presented the factual, overall picture of the experiences of those around Gulf Breeze, Florida, with it's over 260 UFO sightings since November 1987, which included perhaps three times as many witnesses. Ed Walters and his family had been involved in only a small fraction of those sightings, but because of the pictures taken by Ed, and the resultant publicity focused on him by the various media, the world associated Ed's experiences with all the happenings at Gulf breeze, when actually he was just "one of the many witnesses" involved. Dr. Maccabee rectified this 'commercial image' of the Gulf Breeze experience by taking Ed Walters out of the picture and showed what has and is actually happening in the area. Yes, Gulf breeze is real without "ED!" The symposium ended with a "Question and Answer" Panel composed of all speakers with Forest Crawford as Moderator, and an invitation for all to the 1992 MUFON International UFO Symposium to be held in Albuquerque, New Mexico, dates to be determined. John Komar State Director/Tennessee - MUFON Administrator - MUFONET-BBS network =END= ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Don -- -* Don Allen *- InterNet: dona@bilver.UUCP // Amiga..for the best of us. USnail: 1818G Landing Dr, Sanford Fl 32771 \X/ Why use anything else? :-) UUCP: ..uunet!tarpit!bilver!vicstoy!dona 0110 0110 0110 Just say NO! Illuminati < MJ-12|Greys|TLC|CFR|FED|Bilderbergs > UN = "New World Order" Article: 2188 of alt.paranormal Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!crdgw1!ge-dab!tarpit!bilver!dona From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.paranormal,misc.headlines Subject: FILE:WPAT.TXT - UFO's at Wright Patterson? Keywords: UFO NSA CIA HARVEST DULCE GREYS SETI COOPER ANTICHRIST REPTOIDS 666 Message-ID: <1991Jul17.063110.7651@bilver.uucp> Date: 17 Jul 91 06:31:10 GMT Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL Lines: 108 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:1265 alt.conspiracy:6428 alt.paranormal:2188 misc.headlines:17094 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This information is presented for your persusal and is a continuation of my policy of informing the public what is currently available. The content of this information does NOT necessarily reflect the personal views of the poster,nor should the views,opinions,statements or claims represented in the following be accepted by anyone reading these texts at *face* value. If this interests you, please endeavor to research it yourself and investigate it to *your* satisfaction, and as such I will leave it in your hands to either prove it or de-bunk it :-) As I do not have a great amount of time available to pursue follow-ups exclusively, comments to me should be directed to dona@bilver.uucp in mail. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Filename:WPAT.TXT Begin ~~~~~ Wright Patterson AFB : What's Going On There? --------------------------------------------- - Captain Edward Ruppelt while head of the U.S. Air Force's Air Technical Intelligence Center (ATIC) "Project Bluebook", was stationed at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base. - Some believe Wright-Patterson to be a 24 hour Top Secret UFO monitoring and research station. - After the July 2, 1947 crash of a UFO at Roswell, New Mexico, the wreckage of the craft was loaded onto a B-29 and shipped directly to Wright-Patterson AFB in Dayton, Ohio. - Wright Field (as it was formerly known) was the headquarters for the Air Materiel Command (AMC). General Nathan Twining was the Commanding General of the AMC back in 1947. He is also implicated as being one of the original "MJ-12" members. - Gun camera film taken from F-86A Sabre jets in 1953-54 was later taken to Wright-Patterson AFB for evaluation. - Colonel John Burnett was the Air Attache to the Foreign Technology Division at Wright-Pat in 1965 and met with a Captain Bruce Cathie, a New Zealand airline pilot who related to Burnett that he had discovered evidence for a "worldwide grid system used by UFOs". Burnett revealed to Cathie that intensive UFO research was going on there. In Cathie's second book he says the following..."The scientific laboratory there, set up for the purpose, was described as a complex of buildings covering a large area and staffed by many of the world's top scientists. Experimental work was carried out twenty-four hours a day, 365 days a year. - The crash of a 100ft in diameter saucer with 16 dead aliens aboard near Aztec, New Mexico in 1948, had its remains sent to Wright-Pat shortly thereafter. - In a book by Jean-Charles Fumoux in 1981 entitled "Preuves Scientifiques OVNI", the author relates how Leon B. Visse, an alleged expert on histons (elements connected with cellular genetic material) was invited in 1959 to a military compound at Wright-Patterson AFB, where he was asked to perform an experiment on the histonic weight of particular cells. Visse was later taken into a special room where he viewed two humanoid corpses. - Leonard Stringfield contacted a former Navy test pilot known as "P.J.", who related the story of him and several other Navy pilots coming across a saucer-shaped aircraft which was being guarded at Wright-Patterson AFB back in April/1962. He was puzzled by the seeming lack of security since the object was not located in the test facility of the AFB. - Tommy Blann, a researcher, interviewed a Colonel "X" who said, "In the earlier years they had taken some bodies to this base, but later it depended on where they were found. They had a hell of a time setting up procedures for this operation, as well as getting craft out of the area without it being observed. Usually this was done at nighttime." Colonel"X" also told Blann that he believed that in more recent years the bodies were flown outside the U.S. to a secret naval installation on an island in the Pacific. - Senator Barry Goldwater was denied access into a building at Wright Patterson AFB because it was classified above Top Secret. Goldwater did say that he understood that a plan was underway to release all or part of this material sometime in the future...although he didn't know what it was, he did say that he was aware of the rumours. * Note: The above was taken from Timothy Good's 1988 UFO Book entitled "Above Top Secret". EOF ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Don -- -* Don Allen *- InterNet: dona@bilver.UUCP // Amiga..for the best of us. USnail: 1818G Landing Dr, Sanford Fl 32771 \X/ Why use anything else? :-) UUCP: ..uunet!tarpit!bilver!vicstoy!dona 0110 0110 0110 Just say NO! Illuminati < MJ-12|Greys|TLC|CFR|FED|Bilderbergs > UN = "New World Order" Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!sei.cmu.edu!fs7.ece.cmu.edu!crabapple.srv.cs.cmu.edu!news From: cn0n@speech.cs.cmu.edu (Cynthia K Neelan) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: My enounters, opinions Message-ID: <1991Jul17.133155.4184@cs.cmu.edu> Date: 17 Jul 91 13:31:55 GMT References: <1201@ra.MsState.Edu> Sender: news@cs.cmu.edu (Usenet News System) Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon Lines: 16 Nntp-Posting-Host: wiz2.speech.cs.cmu.edu In article <1201@ra.MsState.Edu> cee1@ra.MsState.Edu (The Chuckmeister) writes: > 3. I firmly beleive UFOs/intelligent life exist, the evidence is overwhelming, > I think the most documented phonomena in world history and the GOVT is cov > ering up. My personal belief is that these creatures are demons/evil spirits/ > in some physical bodies, as it seems by other posts, others beleive this > also. I am a Christian and have tried to weigh the evidence of what they > MIGHT be, and that is the only logical conclusion I could come up with. I don't think that logic had much to do with it. cin cn0n@speech1.cs.cmu.edu Article: 1267 of alt.alien.visitors Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!snorkelwacker.mit.edu!world!iecc!spdcc!rdonahue From: rdonahue@spdcc.COM (Bob Donahue) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: what about the last 44 years ?READ/NEW Message-ID: <8408@spdcc.SPDCC.COM> Date: 17 Jul 91 16:11:47 GMT References: <1991Jul10.084842.24362@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au> <1991Jul15.121750.1091@vax.oxford.ac.uk> Organization: insert anything here Lines: 21 ameij@vax.oxford.ac.uk writes: >In article , jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer) writes: >> There have allegedly been other crashes since Roswell. >> There were (allegedly) a few more in the west in the '40s and (I think) >> '50s, and one in Pennsylvania in the '60s. There are also *extremely* >> dubious stories of very recent crashes in Canada and South Africa. >For beings who can traverse the unimaginable vastness of space (albeit in order >mainly to dance in cornfields and take teach-yourself-abattoir-skills courses) >they really don't seem to competant at landing, do they? Well, see their ships are ozone powered... :-) What's even stranger is that they continually pick up and mutilate cattle... What sort of info do they gain from their 7,893rd cow? I think I'll rent _Communion_ and _Close Encounters_ tonight and watch them back-to-back (but which one FIRST)? That should scare my sister and brother... :-) BBC Article: 2192 of alt.paranormal Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!maverick.ksu.ksu.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!uxa.cso.uiuc.edu!mas35638 From: mas35638@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Mike Stangel) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.paranormal,misc.headlines Subject: Re: FILE: WPAT.TXT - UFO's at Wright Patterson? Message-ID: <1991Jul17.182412.29452@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> Date: 17 Jul 91 18:24:12 GMT References: <1991Jul17.063110.7651@bilver.uucp> Sender: usenet@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (News) Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana Lines: 12 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:1270 alt.conspiracy:6430 alt.paranormal:2192 misc.headlines:17096 Why do you suppose the military never responds to these posts? I have no doubt that someone in the Air Force is reading these things. I am also aware that whoever is reading them probably does not have the authority to make a statement regarding AF policy, but were this any other media I guarantee you'd hear from a spokesperson. |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| | "You've got wonderful bones, great eyes, and you | Mike Stangel | | dress really interestingly." | m-stangel@uiuc.edu | | | koosh forever! | `~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~' Article: 2193 of alt.paranormal Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!pacbell.com!att!att!fang!tarpit!bilver!dona From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.paranormal,misc.headlines Subject: FILE: ALIEN-TYPES.TXT Keywords: UFO GREYS REPTOIDS HUMANOIDS POD PEOPLE COUNTERFEITS TARES Message-ID: <1991Jul17.063943.7827@bilver.uucp> Date: 17 Jul 91 06:39:43 GMT Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL Lines: 168 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:1271 alt.conspiracy:6431 alt.paranormal:2193 misc.headlines:17097 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This information is presented for your persusal and is a continuation of my policy of informing the public what is currently available. The content of this information does NOT necessarily reflect the personal views of the poster,nor should the views,opinions,statements or claims represented in the following be accepted by anyone reading these texts at *face* value. If this interests you, please endeavor to research it yourself and investigate it to *your* satisfaction, and as such I will leave it in your hands to either prove it or de-bunk it :-) As I do not have a great amount of time available to pursue follow-ups exclusively, comments to me should be directed to dona@bilver.uucp in mail. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Filename: Alien-Types.Txt Begin ~~~~~ MUFONET-BBS network - Mutual UFO Network ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ALIEN DESCRIPTIONS - VARIETIES ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [Note: This is a message from a participant of the CONTACT Echo, discussing the types of aliens and their descriptions.] Date: 01-01-91 14:04 From: Sandy Barbre Subj: DESCRIPTIONS: ALIEN Below please find a copy of a variety of alien beings descriptions put on the UFO echo by David House.... I thought you might find some of this interesting and I know that a few of you don't get the UFO echo or just don't read it. Okay...here goes... -+---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- by David House VARIETIES OF ALIEN BEINGS KNOWN TO "INTERACT" WITH HUMANS AND SUPPOSEDLY INVOLVED IN INFLUENCING HUMAN AFFAIRS. DISCLAIMER: I make no claims for the accuracy of this list and express no personal opinion on the matter. It was given to me as "accurate information" and I just wanted to pass it along to anyone who might find it interesting or otherwise useful. I'd appreciate any feedback you'd care to share with me if you wish to proceed in a civilized manner. ALIEN TYPE 1: The Greys. Of this type there are several sub-types. All tend to appear greyish in color and for this reason are referred to as "greys." GREY TYPE A: This is the type most commonly referred to as the greys. Also known as Zeta Reticuli from the Zeta Reticulan star system (the Bernard star) neighboring the Orion area. They function in a mode that is apparently military in nature with a rigidly defined social structure that holds science and "conquering worlds" to be the prime movers. They are normally about 4.5 ft tall with large heads and black "wrap around" eyes. They have limited facial features, slit mouth and no nose to speak of. They have evolved beyond the need for reproductive systems or digestive systems and reproduce by cloning. Their genetics are partly based on insectoidal genetics. Their science deals largely with the study of other life forms and genetic engineering. They have supposedly had a part to play in the alteration of human genetics over thousands of years. It seems that they may be trying to cross breed with humans in order to create a "mixture race" that would be better than either. (I've read that they are a dying species, that have cloned so much that now, with each successive cloning, the species grows weaker. They are trying to infuse new life into their species by creating the mixed breed.) There seem to be two main social classes. One is the more hawkish and is more abrupt, crude and blunt. The more dove-like ones are more refined and capable of a more business-like behavior towards humans, and prefer to use more "diplomatic" behavior to gain control over human's. This type of Grey is what I believe is being referred to as the "Orange" class of Greys. They seem to be emotionless (by human standards) and therefore are seen as cruel in their treatment of human beings. They are able to take human lives without any regard for that individual. They apparently can use certain substances of the human body for their sustenance and therefore appear to be carnivorous in regards to humans. (I also read that they extract fluid from some part of the human brain during intense emotional response [fear] and are able to use it like a recreational drug.) It is my understanding that these greys are actually servants to a master race of reptilian-type aliens and are trying to prepare the earth for their arrival by gaining control over the earth through many means. They tend to enjoy the feeling of freedom they have on earth, away from their masters and would desire the help of humans in confrontations with the reptilians...which appears to be a consideration for the near future (mid 90's.) These greys have their best known bases in New Mexico and Nevada but are also known to have bases in many countries of the world. GREY TYPE B: Tall Greys from Orion. Usually about 7 to 8 ft. tall (reports often exaggerate their height as being 9 to 12 ft.) with facial feature somewhat similar to grey type A with the exception of the large nose found on type B greys. These greys also have technologies that allow them to perform certain actions that appear "miraculous." These greys are less viscous towards humans than type A greys (but are still considered "hostile".) They tend to influence more through political controls and negotiated agreements with those in power. Their main bases seem to be in the Aleutian Islands. These are the type seen not long ago in Eastern Russia. GREY TYPE C: These are the shortest of the greys and tend to be about 3.5 ft. tall. Their facial features are very similar to the Zeta Reticuli greys and are of the same "root race.". They are just as hostile to humans as the Zetas. They are from a star system near the shoulder of Orion called Bellatrax. ALIEN TYPE 2: THE REPTILIANS: A genetics akin to reptiles, these are highly advanced entities but viewed as being of a negative, hostile or dangerous disposition since they regard humans as a totally inferior race. They would perceive us much the way we would perceive a herd of cattle. They are carnivorous in regard to humans. There is supposedly a "driven" planetoid or asteroid inhabited by 30 million of these lizard-folk that is to enter our solar system in the mid 90's if the present schedule is kept. They consider earth to be their own ancient outpost and would expect to have complete control of the entire planet upon their return. Their own planet is becoming unable to adequately support life and they need somewhere else to live. These are the aliens who are served by the type A greys. ALIEN TYPE 3: HUMAN TYPE ALIENS HUMAN TYPE A: These are of a genetic base similar to humans of earth. They appear of "normal" height (5-6ft?) and tend to be fair-skinned with blonde hair. These entities have been abducted by the greys or are the offspring of abductees and have been trained by the greys as servants. These entities are totally subservient to the greys. HUMAN TYPE B: These are aliens of similar genetics to earth humans and also, it seems, of the humans that serve the greys. These are from the Pleiades and are also of the blonde, fair-skinned appearance. This type is of a genuine highly evolved, spiritual, benevolent variety and have a kinship toward humans and are the only aliens to be truly trusted by earth humans at this time. They had at one time offered to be of assistance to earth leaders in dealing with the alien situation here but were rebuffed and so have taken a kind of "hands off" approach for the time being. These aliens are supposedly the forefather race of humankind. These are apparently not on earth much at this time due to serious problems in the area of their home. HUMAN TYPE C: Very little is known about these. They are supposedly another of the highly evolved, spiritual type of great benevolence to earth humans. I understand that their appearance is similar to other human-type aliens. They are from Sirius and don't appear to be much involved with earth happenings at this time other than being concerned about the Grey scenario. They could desire to be of help to humans. There are other known human type aliens of this "more highly spiritually evolved" nature that are apparently aware of the situation on earth and considering some possible course of action. These are from Arcturus and Vega. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Don -- -* Don Allen *- InterNet: dona@bilver.UUCP // Amiga..for the best of us. USnail: 1818G Landing Dr, Sanford Fl 32771 \X/ Why use anything else? :-) UUCP: ..uunet!tarpit!bilver!vicstoy!dona 0110 0110 0110 Just say NO! Illuminati < MJ-12|Greys|TLC|CFR|FED|Bilderbergs > UN = "New World Order" Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!ysub!psuvm!cunyvm!ershc From: ERSHC@CUNYVM.BITNET Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: A way out of here. Message-ID: <91198.220255ERSHC@CUNYVM.BITNET> Date: 18 Jul 91 02:02:55 GMT References: <91197.093313JOHNFW@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center Lines: 9 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:1278 sci.skeptic:13043 In article <91197.093313JOHNFW@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>, JOHNFW@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU says: >They say they have a planet called PC22 that is a lot like our >Earth was l50 years ago. They say by l994 they will bring their >space ships and anyone can go that so desires. I'll leave you 'Don't go....To Serve Man....it's a cookbook!!' (thanks Harlan) Article: 1279 of alt.alien.visitors Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!unix.cis.pitt.edu!dsinc!bagate!cbmvax!amix!vanth!jms From: jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Drive System & Navigation Message-ID: Date: 17 Jul 91 03:47:01 GMT References: <14572@goofy.Apple.COM> <1991Jul15.172342.485@kcbbs.gen.nz> Organization: The Search For TERRESTRIAL Intelligence Lines: 27 In article <1991Jul15.172342.485@kcbbs.gen.nz> sheepsqueezer@kcbbs.gen.nz (Colin Jones) writes: >I seem to remember that when Don Allen posted a list of MUFONet files >there were some interesting-looking ones about gravity/antigravity (& >I think one about vacuum energy) in the general science section. Perhaps >it would be possible for someone to post them on the net? (Don are you >up to it? :-) Then all of us who are interested in drives could discuss >them. I'd do it myself, but unfortunately I can't get there from here I haven't been around long enough to have seen the filelist, but chances are I've seen some of these files. I have quite a collection of files on such subjects, and I was thinking about posting a few of them myself, and might yet if I can remember where I put them :-) Of course, if Don wants to beat me to it... How about it, guys? Do you want some speculative files on UFO propulsion? Off the top of my head, I have one on an electromagnetic drive based on Tesla's ideas, one on graviton/tachyon drives that appears to have been channeled, and one that goes through several stages from down-to-earth to the extremely bizarre. I've also got a file describing how to build a spacetime warping coil (I have no idea if it's ever been done successfully.) -- * From the disk of: | jms@vanth.uucp | "Let's become Jim Shaffer, Jr. | amix.commodore.com!vanth!jms | alive again." 37 Brook Street | uunet!cbmvax!amix!vanth!jms | Montgomery, PA 17752 | 72750.2335@compuserve.com | --Yes Article: 6447 of alt.conspiracy Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!att!fang!tarpit!bilver!dona From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,misc.headlines,sci.energy Subject: SOURCE INFO: Tesla publications - list 1 Keywords: Lindsay Publications Inc. Message-ID: <1991Jul17.232059.13816@bilver.uucp> Date: 17 Jul 91 23:20:59 GMT Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL Lines: 245 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:1289 alt.conspiracy:6447 misc.headlines:17115 sci.energy:5008 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This information is presented for your persusal and is a continuation of my policy of informing the public what is currently available. The content of this information does NOT necessarily reflect the personal views of the poster,nor should the views,opinions,statements or claims represented in the following be accepted by anyone reading these texts at *face* value. If this interests you, please endeavor to research it yourself and investigate it to *your* satisfaction, and as such I will leave it in your hands to either prove it or de-bunk it :-) As I do not have a great amount of time available to pursue follow-ups exclusively, comments to me should be directed to dona@bilver.uucp in mail. --------------------------------------------------------------------- What follows is some source info on where to find publications on/about/regarding Nikola Tesla. PLEASE NOTE: THIS IS BEING PUBLISHED FOR INFORMATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Alfred A. Skrocki April 26, 1991 This is a list of literature on Nikola Tesla and related material, currently available from Lindsay Publications Inc. with a brief description of each reference. Any of the publications listed can be ordered from: Lindsay Publications Inc. P.O. Box 12 Bradley IL 60915-0012 Thay charge 75 cents shipping for the first book and 25 cents for each additional book. Thay accept VISA and MasterCharge and do C.O.D. their Phone-order number is (815)468-3668 their FAX number is (815)468-3694 . All their books have a satisfaction gaurantee! Be sure to get on their mailing list for their "Electrical Books" catalog, and tell them about the Tesla BBS (Who knows, Thay may list it in one of their future catalogs) **************************************************************** Build your Own Laser, Phaser, Ion Ray Gun... by Robert E. Lannini TAB Books Contains the plains to build many devices listed in the "Information Unlimited, Inc." catalog, including a 250,000 volt Tesla coil, a solid- state Tesla coil, ruby lasers, solid state lasers, a CO2 IR laser, LED laser simulators, Ultrasonic pain field generators, Magnetic field distortion detector, an IR viewer, and a variety of "bugs". 8 x 0 1/2 paperback, 390 pages Lindsay Publications Cat. no. 346 $17.95 Electrical Designs Articles From American Electrician Magazine 1901 reprinted by Lindsay Publications Inc. Numerous plans for motors, ammeters, watt meters, galvanometers, a Wimhust influence machine, a condenser for extremely high potentials, and an article on the construction of a Tesla - Thompson high frequency coil. 5 1/2 x 11 paperback, 262 pages Lindsay Publications Cat. no. 4228 $11.50 Electricity at High Pressures and Frequencies by Henry L. Transtrom 1921 reprinted by Lindsay Publications Inc. Not much how-to, but descriptions on existing equipment in 1921, with theory, calculations on performance and numerous photos. First chapter devoted to principles of electricity in simplified terms. many photos of high voltage experiments. 5 x 7 paperback, 264 pages Lindsay Publications Cat. no. 20544 $11.95 Experiments With Alternate Currents of High Potential & High Frequency by Nikola Tesla A reprint of the Lecture delivered by Tesla before the Institution of Electrical Engineers, London, with an appendix on the transmission of electrical energy without wire. The last fourteen pages is a reprint of Tesla's article from the March 5, 1904 issue of "Electrical World and Engineer" complete with photographs of Tesla's experimental apparatus at the Colorado Springs and Long Island laboratories. 5 1/2 x 8 1/2 paperback, 170 pages Lindsay Publications Cat. no. 4392 $9.95 High Frequency Apparatus by Thomas Stanley Curtis 1916 reprinted by Lindsay Publications Inc. 1988 Much discussion on the constituent parts of Tesla coils with details on construction of everything from the High voltage primary transformer to the Winding of the Tesla coil secondary. Several detailed plans for large Tesla coils (fifty inch sparks) and a large chapter on the use of the Tesla coil in stage acts and High Frequency Plant Culture. Well illustrated. 5 1/2 x 8 1/2 paperback, 247 pages Lindsay Publications Cat. no. 20030 $11.95 High Power Wireless Equipment by Alfred Morgan Popular Electricity Magazine 1910-1911 reprinted by Lindsay Publications Inc. A compiliation of articles that appeared in Popular Electricity Magazine dealing with Spark-gap transmitters and how to build them from the ground up! Includes chapters on; Tesla and his Wireless Age and Construction of the Tesla High Frequency Apparatus. 5 1/2 x 8 1/2 paperback, 99 pages Lindsay Publications Cat. no. 4953 $9.95 Inventions, Researches & Writings of Nikola Tesla by Thomas Commerford Martin 1893 reprinted by Lindsay Publications Inc. A comprehensive collection of Tesla's work up to 1893. Contains chapters on; Polyphase currents, Tesla effects with High Frequency and High Potential Currents (including transcriptions of all of Tesla's lectures on High frequency and High potential currents up to 1893, Miscellaneous Inventions and Writings (including Tesla's Thermo and Pyro-magnetic motors),and an Appendix on Early Phase Motors and the Tesla Oscillators (covering Tesla's personal exhibit at the Chicago Worlds Fair and Tesla's mechanical and electrical oscillators. 5 1/2 x 8 1/2 paperback, 496 pages Lindsay Publications Cat. no. 4902 $16.95 Lakhovsky Multi-Wave Oscillator Handbook compiled by Thomas J. Brown A typewritten report covering history, wiring diagrams, construction tips, reprints of the Lakhovsky patents, "documented" cases of cure, and a series of reprinted magazine articles on the use of radio frequency waves to cure diseases. 8 1/2 x 11 spiral bound, 156 pages Lindsay Publications Cat. no. 357 $16.95 Mechanics Notebook 20 - Old Magazine Plans reprinted by Lindsay Publications Inc. Construction plans gleamed from; "Everyday Engineering Magazine", "Electrical Experimenter","Practical Electrics and "Science and Invention" covering the period of September 1918 to February 1926. Mostly of interest to machinists, but includes plans for a twenty four inch Tesla coil. 8 1/2 x 11 booklet 22 pages Lindsay Publications Cat. no. 848 $5.95 Plans & Instructions to Build the - "Mini" Tesla Electric Spark Coil by John F. Nuyen A small typewritten booklet by an experimenter on building a Tesla coil using a Model-T ignition coil, the Tesla Coil itself uses 8 guage wire for the primary and 34 gauge wire on a sixteen inch length of PVC tubing. A "home-grown" publication. 5 1/2 x 8 1/2 booklet, 16 pages Lindsay Publications Cat. no. 374 $4.00 Plans & Instructions to Build the - High Frequency Electric Coil by John F. Nuyen A small typewritten booklet by an experimenter on building an Oudin coil using a Model-T ignition coil, the Oudin Coil itself uses 8 guage wire for the primary and 34 gauge wire on a paper tube. A "home-grown" publication. 5 1/2 x 8 1/2 booklet, 16 pages Lindsay Publications Cat. no. 375 $4.00 Space Energy Recievers by Simplified Technology Service Most of the devices described were built to defraud gullible investors. There is a brief description on Tesla's Free-energy reciever. Other devices described include; the Moray unit, the Yglesias machine, Hartwig's pendulum observations, Perrigo's machine, the Mushroom generator, and a British report on a World War II German machine. Has photos, diagrams and a list of experimentors. 8 1/2 x 11 booklet, 21 pages Lindsay Publications Cat. no. 882 $4.50 Tesla: The Lost Inventions by George Trinkaus 1988 High Voltage Press contains a brief history of Tesla's various endevors and brief overviews of; Tesla's Turbine, Spark-Gap oscillator, The Tesla coil, Magnifying Transmitter, Tesla's High Frequency lighting devices, Transportation (including Tesla's Vertical take-off and landing plane) and Tesla's Free-energy reciever. 8 1/2 x 7 booklet, 34 pages Lindsay Publications Cat. no. 4317 $6.95 Tesla Coil by George Trinkaus High Voltage Press Contains a brief overview of Tesla, his career and his coil. Instructions on building a Tesla coil using a neon sign transformer and a spark gap to drive the primary. Contains brief discussions on; glass and foil capacitors, oil capacitors, salt-water capacitors, series and rotary spark gaps, Tesla's Magnifying transmiter, a schematic for a 6L6 tube driven coil and an ozone disinfector. 7 x 8 1/2 booklet, 21 pages Lindsay Publications Cat. no. 741 $4.95 Tesla Coil Secrets - Construction notes and novel uses by R. A. Ford Lindsay Publications Inc. 1985 Numerous Tesla coil plans, covering everything from a miniature coil wound on a 5 3/4 inch testube to a four foot coil yielding fifty four inch sparks! Several designs for spark gaps,including rotary and quenched gaps. Many examples of experiments with Tesla coils and discussion on experiments in wireless power, electrotheraputics, and electroculture. 5 1/2 x 8 1/2 paperback, 74 pages Lindsay Publications Cat. no. 4317 $6.95 Tesla - Man Out of Time by Margaret Chaney 1981 Prentice-Hall,Inc. An extensive biography on Tesla covering much material released by the Freedom of Information Act, and material gleamed from the references in the bibliography on Tesla that Margret Chaney served as Co-editor for. mass-market paperback, 310 pages Lindsay Publications Cat. no. 717 $5.95 The Very Best From The Electrical Experimenter 1916-1917 anthology by Lindsay Publications Inc. A compiliation of articles on spark-gap transmitters and Tesla coils gleamed from Electrical Experimenter magazine. Articles on; Spark-gaps, rotary spark-gaps, a bottle Tesla coil, a thirty six inch spark Tesla coil for lecturers, a 1/4 KW Oudin coil, construction of Tesla coils for medical and lecture use, use of Tesla coils in treatment of diseases, Dr. Tesla and his achievements, Lightning made to order, Tesla's views on electricity and war, and an article on Reginald A. Fressenden. 8 1/2 x 11 paperback, 108 pages Lindsay Publications Cat. no. 20137 $9.95 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- EOF -- -* Don Allen *- InterNet: dona@bilver.UUCP // Amiga..for the best of us. USnail: 1818G Landing Dr, Sanford Fl 32771 \X/ Why use anything else? :-) UUCP: ..uunet!tarpit!bilver!vicstoy!dona 0110 0110 0110 Just say NO! Illuminati < MJ-12|Greys|TLC|CFR|FED|Bilderbergs > UN = "New World Order" Article: 6448 of alt.conspiracy Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!att!fang!tarpit!bilver!dona From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,misc.headlines,sci.energy Subject: SOURCE INFO: Tesla publications - list 2 Keywords: Publications on Nikola Tesla Message-ID: <1991Jul17.232641.13895@bilver.uucp> Date: 17 Jul 91 23:26:41 GMT Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL Lines: 168 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:1290 alt.conspiracy:6448 misc.headlines:17116 sci.energy:5009 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This information is presented for your persusal and is a continuation of my policy of informing the public what is currently available. The content of this information does NOT necessarily reflect the personal views of the poster,nor should the views,opinions,statements or claims represented in the following be accepted by anyone reading these texts at *face* value. If this interests you, please endeavor to research it yourself and investigate it to *your* satisfaction, and as such I will leave it in your hands to either prove it or de-bunk it :-) As I do not have a great amount of time available to pursue follow-ups exclusively, comments to me should be directed to dona@bilver.uucp in mail. --------------------------------------------------------------------- What follows is some source info on where to find publications on/about/regarding Nikola Tesla. PLEASE NOTE: THIS IS BEING PUBLISHED FOR INFORMATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY! --------------------------------------------------------------------- April 1991 Bearden, T, E. Fer-De-Lance: A Briefing on Soviet Scaler Electromagnetic Weapons. Tesla Book Co., 1986. 225 p. / ill. $27.50 Cheney, Margaret. Tesla: Man out of Time. Hippocrene Books, Inc., 3/90 320 p. $18.95 Cheney, Margaret. Tesla, man out of time. / Margaret Cheney. -- Englewood Cliffs, N.J. : Prentice-Hall, c1981. Commander X. Nikola Tesla: Free Energy & the White Dove. Global Communications, 12 / 90 130 p. $8.95 Corum, James F. TCTUTOR: A Personal Computer Analysis of Spark Gap Tesla Coils. Corum & Associates, Inc,. 12/88 96 p. / ill. $75.00 Corum, James F. Vacuum Tube Tesla Coils. Corum & Associates, Inc,. 12/88 130 p. / paperback / ill. $55.00 Hunt, Inez. Lightning in His Hands: The Life Story of Nikola Tesla. Angriff Press, paperback $5.00 Johnston, Benjamin H. And in Creating Live : The Early Life of Nikola Tesla. Hart Brothers Publishing, 6/90 175 p. / ill. $8.95 Martin, T. C. Inventions, Reaserches & Writings of Nikola Tesla. Gordon Press Publishers, 10/86 Library binding $250.00 Martin, Thomas Commerford, 1856-1924. The inventions, researches, and writing of Nikola Tesla, with special reference to his work in polyphase currents and high potential lighting. / by Thomas Commerford Martin. -- Hawthorne, Ca. Omni Publications ; (New York : distributed by W. S. Heinman), 1977. O'Neil, John J. The Prodigal Genius: The Life of Nikola Tesla. Angriff Press, 326 p. / paperback $6.00 O'Neil, John J. The Prodigal Genius: The Life and Mind of Nikola Tesla. Gordon Press Publishers, 11/86 Library binding $79.95 Phillips, Mark, ed. Tesla - Mechanical Resonance: Bass Guitar. Cherry Lane Books, 71 p. / paperback / ill. $14.95 Phillips, Mark, ed. Tesla - The Great Radio Controversy: Guitar - Vocal. Cherry Lane Books, 102 p. / paperback / ill. $16.95 Ratzlaff, John T., ed. Tesla: Complete Patents. Gordon Press Publishers, 8/86 Library binding $125.00 Ratzlaff, John T. Tesla Said. Tesla Book Co., 4/84 paperback $28.00 Ratzlaff, John T. ed. Dr. Nikola Tesla-Selected Patent Wrappers from the National Archives. Tesla Book Co., 1981. paperback $60.00 Ratzlaff, John T. Dr. Nikola Tesla Bibliography. Ragusan Press, 1979. 248 p. / paperback $18.00 Ratzlaff, John T. Dr. Nikola Tesla. Tesla Book Co., 10/79. paperback / ill. $20.00 Ratzlaff, John T. Dr. Nikola Tesla--Complete Patents. 2nd ed. Tesla Book Co., 500 p. / Library binding / ill. $35.00 Tesla, Nikola. The Problem of Increasing Human Energy, with Special Reference to Harnessing the Sun's Energy. Revisionist Press, 3/91. Library binding $75.00 Tesla, Nikola. The Tesla Coil. Revisionist Press, 3/91. Library binding $75.00 Tesla, Nikola. Catalogue of Patents: A. Radmila. Vanous, Arthur, Co., 1988. 62 p. $10.00 Tesla, Nikola. Museum Catalogue - Museum. Vanous, Arthur, Co., 1987. 30 p. Tesla, Nikola. Expirements with Alternating Currents. Gordon Press Publishers, 7/86 Library binding $250.00 Tesla, Nikola. Nikola Tesla: Colorado Springs Notes 1899-1900. Gordon Press Publishers, 8/86 Library binding $250.00 Cheney, Margaret. Tesla: Man out of Time. Dell Publishing Co., Inc, 8/83 320 p. $18.95 Tesla, Nikola. My Inventions: The Autobiography of Nikola Tesla. Hart Bothers Publishing. 10/82 110 p. / paperback / ill. $10.00 Bearden, T E. Solutions to Tesla's Secrets & the Soviet Tesla Weapons with Reference Articles for Solutions to Tesla's Secrets. Tesla Book Co., 1/82 188 p. / paperback / ill. $14.00 Norman, Ruth E. Tesla Speaks. Unarius Publications, 1973. ill. Tesla, Nikola. Tribute to: Museum. Vanous, Arthur, Co., 1961. 572 p. $60.00 Hayes, Jeffery A. Boundary Layer Breakthrough: The Bladeless Tesla Turbine. High Energy Enterprises 184 p. / Tesla tech. ser.; Vol2 $19.95 Tesla, Nikola. Colorado Springs Notes 1899 - 1900. Angriff Press, [?] 440 p. $40.00 Tesla, Nikola. Experiments with A. C. & Transmission of Electric Energy Without Wires. Angriff Press, 162 p. $10.00 Tesla, Nikola. Inventions, Researches, & Writings. Angriff Press, $14.00 Tesla, Nikola. The Problem of Increasing Human Energy. High Energy Enterprises, 96 p. / paperback / ill. $9.95 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ EOF -- -* Don Allen *- InterNet: dona@bilver.UUCP // Amiga..for the best of us. USnail: 1818G Landing Dr, Sanford Fl 32771 \X/ Why use anything else? :-) UUCP: ..uunet!tarpit!bilver!vicstoy!dona 0110 0110 0110 Just say NO! Illuminati < MJ-12|Greys|TLC|CFR|FED|Bilderbergs > UN = "New World Order" Article: 6452 of alt.conspiracy Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!att!fang!tarpit!bilver!dona From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,misc.headlines,sci.energy Subject: Keelynet file - TESLA5.ASC Keywords: THE GREATEST HACKER OF ALL TIME Message-ID: <1991Jul17.235041.14401@bilver.uucp> Date: 17 Jul 91 23:50:41 GMT Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL Lines: 466 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:1294 alt.conspiracy:6452 misc.headlines:17120 sci.energy:5013 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This information is presented for your persusal and is a continuation of my policy of informing the public what is currently available. The content of this information does NOT necessarily reflect the personal views of the poster,nor should the views,opinions,statements or claims represented in the following be accepted by anyone reading these texts at *face* value. If this interests you, please endeavor to research it yourself and investigate it to *your* satisfaction, and as such I will leave it in your hands to either prove it or de-bunk it :-) As I do not have a great amount of time available to pursue follow-ups exclusively, comments to me should be directed to dona@bilver.uucp in mail. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Keelynet file: TESLA5.ASC ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ (word processor parameters LM=8, RM=75, TM=2, BM=2) Taken from KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501 Sponsored by Vangard Sciences PO BOX 1031 Mesquite, TX 75150 There are ABSOLUTELY NO RESTRICTIONS on duplicating, publishing or distributing the files on KeelyNet! January 14, 1991 TESLA5.ASC -------------------------------------------------------------------- This file shared with KeelyNet courteousy of Scott Kephart. -------------------------------------------------------------------- THE GREATEST HACKER OF ALL TIME by Dave Small (c) 1987 Reprinted from Current Notes magazine. The question comes up from time to time. "Who's the greatest hacker ever? "Well, there's a lot of different opinions on this. Some say Steve Wozniak of Apple II fame. Maybe Andy Hertzfeld of the Mac operating system. Richard Stallman, say others, of MIT. Yet at such times when I mention who I think the greatest hacker is, everyone agrees (provided they know of him), and there's no further argument. So, let me introduce you to him, and his greatest hack. I'll warn you right up front that it's mind numbing. By the way, everything I'm going to tell you is true and verifiable down at your local library. Don't worry -- we're not heading off into a Shirley MacLaine UFO-land story. Just some classy electrical engineering... THE SCENE: COLORADO SPRINGS, CO. Colorado Springs is in southern Colorado, about 70 mile south of Denver. These days it is known as the home of several optical disk research corporations and of NORAD, the missile defense command under Cheyenne Mountain. (I have a personal interest in Colorado Springs; my wife Sandy grew up there.) These events took place some time ago in Colorado Springs. A scientist had moved into town and set up a laboratory on Hill Street, on the southern outskirts. The lab had a two hundred foot copper antenna sticking up out of it, looking something like a HAM radio enthusiast's antenna. He moved in and started work. And strange electrical things happened near that lab. People would walk near the lab, and sparks would jump up from the ground to their feet, through the soles of their shoes. One boy took a screwdriver, held it near a fire hydrant, and drew a four inch electrical spark from the hydrant. Sometimes the grass around his lab would glow with an eerie blue corona, St. Elmo's Fire. What they didn't know was this was small stuff. The man in the lab was merely tuning up his apparatus. He was getting ready to run it wide open in an experiment that ranks as among the greatest, and most spectacular, of all time. One side effect of his experiment was the setting of the record for man-made lightning: some 42 meters in length (130 feet). Page 1 THE MAN: NIKOLA TESLA. His name was Nikola Tesla. He was an immigrant from what is now Yugoslavia; there's a museum of his works in Belgrade. He's a virtual unknown in the United States, despite his accomplishments. I'm not sure why. Some people feel it's a dark plot, the same people who are into conspiracy theories. I feel it's more that Tesla, while a brilliant inventor, was also an awful businessman; he ended up going broke. Businessmen who go broke fade out of the public eye; we see this in the computer industry all the time. Edison, who wasn't near the inventor Tesla was, but who was a better businessman, is well remembered as is his General Electric. Still, let me list a few of Tesla's works just so you'll understand how bright he was. He invented the AC motor and transformer. (Think of every motor in your house.) He invented 3-phase electricity and popularized alternating current, the electrical distribution system used all over the world. He invented the Tesla Coil, which makes the high voltage that drives the picture tube in your computer's CRT. He is now credited with inventing modern radio as well; the Supreme Court overturned Marconi's patent in 1943 in favor of Tesla. Tesla, in short, invented much of the equipment that gets power to your home every day from miles away, and many that use that power inside your home. His inventions made George Westinghouse (Westinghouse Corp.) a wealthy man. Finally, the unit of magnetic flux in the metric system is the "tesla". Other units include the "faraday" and the "henry", so you'll understand this is an honor given to few. So we're not talking about an unknown here, but rather a solid electrical engineer. Tesla whipped through a number of inventions early in his life. He found himself increasingly interested in resonance, and in particular, electrical resonance. Tesla found out something fascinating. If you set an electrical circuit to resonating, it does strange things indeed. Take for instance his Tesla Coil. This high frequency step-up transformer would kick out a few hundred thousand volts at radio frequencies. The voltage would come off the top of his coil as a "corona", or brush discharge. The little ones put out a six-inch spark; the big ones throw sparks many feet long. Yet Tesla could draw the sparks to his fingers without being hurt -- the high frequency of the electricity keeps it on the surface of the skin, and prevents the current from doing any harm. Tesla got to thinking about resonance on a large scale. He'd already pioneered the electrical distribution system we use today, and that's not small thinking; when you think of Tesla, think big. He thought, let's say I send an electrical charge into the ground. What happens to it? Well, the ground is an excellent conductor of electricity. Let me spend a moment on this so you understand, because topsoil doesn't seem very conductive to most. The ground makes a wonderful sinkhole for electricity. This is why you "ground" power tools; the third (round) pin in every AC outlet in your house is wired straight to, literally, the ground. Typically, the handle of your power tool is hooked to ground this way, if something shorts out in the tool and the handle gets electrified,the current ruches to the ground instead of into you. The ground has long been used in this manner, as a conductor. Page 2 Tesla generates a powerful pulse of electricity, and drains it into the ground. Because the ground is conductive, it doesn't stop. Rather, it spreads out like a radio wave, traveling at the speed of light, 186,000 miles per second. And it keeps going, because it's a powerful wave; it doesn't peter out after a few miles. It passes through the iron core of the earth with little trouble. After all, molten iron is very conductive. When the wave reaches the far side of the planet, it bounces back, like a wave in water bounces when it reaches an obstruction. Since it bounces, it makes a return trip; eventually, it returns to the point of origin. Now, this idea might seem wild. But it isn't science fiction. We bounced radar beams off the moon in the 1950's, and we mapped Venus by radar in the 1970's. Those planets are millions of miles away. The earth is a mere 3000 miles in diameter; sending an electromagnetic wave through it is a piece of cake. We can sense earthquakes all the way across the planet by the vibrations they set up that travel all that distance. So, while at first thought it seems amazing, it's really pretty straight forward. But, as I said, it's a typical example of how Tesla thought. And then he had one of his typically Tesla ideas. He thought, when the wave returns to me (about 1/30th of a second after he sends it in), it's going to be considerably weakened by the trip. Why doesn't he send in another charge at this point, to strengthen the wave? The two will combine, go out, and bounce again. And then he'll reinforce it again, and again. The wave will build up in power. It's like pushing a swingset. You give a series of small pushes each time the swing goes out. And you build up a lot of power with a series of small pushes; ever tried to stop a swing when it's going full tilt? He wanted to find out the upper limit of resonance. And he was in for a surprise. THE HACK: THE TESLA COIL So Tesla moved into Colorado Springs, where one of his generators and electrical systems had been installed, and set up his lab. Why Colorado Springs? Well, his lab in New York had burned down, and he was depressed about that. And as fate would have it, a friend in Colorado Springs who directed the power company, Leonard Curtis, offered him free electricity. Who could resist that? After setting up his lab, he tuned his gigantic Tesla coil through that year, trying to get it to resonate perfectly with the earth below. And the townspeople noticed those weird effects; Tesla was electrifying the ground beneath their feet on the return bounce of the wave. Eventually, he got it tuned, keeping things at low power. But in the spirit of a true hacker, just once he decided to run it wide open, just to see what would happen. Just what was the upper limit of the wave he would build up, bouncing back and forth in the planet below? He had his Coil hooked to the ground below it, the 200 foot antenna above it, and getting as much electricity as he wanted right off the city power supply mains. Tesla went outside to watch (wearing three inch rubber soles for insulation) and had his assistant, Kolman Czito, turn the Coil on. There was a buzz from rows of oil capacitors, and a roar from the spark gap as wrist-thick arcs jumped across it. Inside the lab the noise was deafening. But Tesla was outside, watching the antenna. Any surge that returned to the Page 3 area would run up the antenna and jump off as lightning. Off the top of the antenna shot a six foot lightning bolt. The bolt kept going in a steady arc, though, unlike a single lightning flash. And here Tesla watched carefully, for he wanted to see if the power would build up, if his wave theory would work. Soon the lightning was twenty feet long, then fifty. The surges were growing more powerful. Eighty feet -- now thunder was following each lightning bolt. A hundred feet, a hundred twenty feet; the lightning shot upwards off the antenna. Thunder was heard booming around Tesla now (it was heard 22 miles away, in the town of Cripple Creek). The meadow Tesla was standing in was lit up with an electrical discharge very much like St. Elmo's Fire, casting a blue glow. His theory had worked! There didn't seem to be an upper limit to the surges; he was creating the most powerful electrical surges ever created by man. That moment he set the record, which he still holds, for manmade lightning. Then everything halted. The lightning discharges stopped, the thunder quit. He ran in, found the power company had turned off his power feed. He called them, shouted at them -- they were interrupting his experiment! The foreman replied that Tesla had just overloaded the generator and set it on fire, his lads were busy putting out the fire in the windings, and it would be a cold day in hell before Tesla got any more free power from the Colorado Springs power company! All the lights in Colorado Springs had gone out. And that, readers, is to me the greatest hack in history. I've seen some amazing hacks. The 8-bit Atari OS. The Mac OS. The phone company computers -- well, lots of computers. But I've never seen anyone set the world's lightning record and shut off the power to an entire town, "just to see what would happen". For a few moments, there in Colorado Springs, he achieved something never before done. He had used the entire planet as a conductor, and sent a pulse through it. In that one moment in the summer of 1899, he made electrical history. That's right, in 1899 -- darn near a hundred years ago. Well, you may say to yourself, that's a nice story, and I'm sure George Lucas could make a hell of a move about it, special effects and all. But it's not relevant today. Or isn't it? Hang on to your hat. THE SDI AND THE TESLA COIL Last month we talked about an amazing hack that Nikola Tesla did -- bouncing an electrical wave through the planet, in 1899, and setting the world's record for manmade lightning. This month,let me lay a little political groundwork. Last October I attended Hackercon 2.0, another gathering of computer hackers from all over. It was an informal weekend at a camp in the hills west of Santa Clara. One of the more interesting memories of Hackers 2.0 were the numerous diatribes against the Strategic Defense Initiative. Most speakers claimed it was impossible, citing technical problems. So many people felt obligated to complain about SDI that the conference was jokingly called "SDIcon 2.0". Probably the high(?) point of the conference was Jerry Pournelle and Timothy Leary up on stage debating SDI. I'll leave the description to your imagination -- it was everything you can think of and more. Personally, I was disturbed to see how many gifted hackers adopting the attitude of "let's not even try". That's not how micros got started. I mentioned to one Page 4 Time magazine journalist that if anyone could make SDI go, it was the hackers gathered there. I also believe that the greatest hacker of them all, Nikola Tesla, solved the SDI technical problem back in 1899. The event was so long ago, and so amazing, that it's pretty much been forgotten; I described it last issue. Let me present my case for the Tesla Coil and SDI. SOVIET USE OF THE TESLA COIL You will recall I said that Tesla was born in Yugoslavia (although back then, it was "Serbo-Croatia"). He is not unknown there; he is regarded as a national hero. Witness the Nikola Tesla museum in Belgrade, for instance. There's been interferences picked up, on this side of the planet, which is causing problems in the ham radio bands. Direction finding equipment has traced the interference in the SW band to two sources in the Soviet Union, which are apparently two high powered Tesla Coils. Why on earth are the Soviets playing with Tesla Coils? There's one odd theory that they're subjecting Canada to low level electrical interference to cause attitude change. Sigh. Moving right along, there's another theory, more credible, that they are conducting research in "over the horizon" radar using Tesla's ideas. (The Soviets are certainly not saying what they're doing.) When I read about this testing, it worried me. I don't think they're playing with attitude control or radar. I think they're doing exactly what Tesla did in Colorado Springs. COMPUTERS AND GROUNDING Time for another discussion of grounding. Consider your computer equipment. You've doubtlessly been warned about static electricity, always been told to ground yourself (thus discharging the static into the ground, an electrical sinkhole) before touching your computer. Companies make anti-static spray for your rugs. Static is in the 20,000 to 50,000 volt range. Computer chips run on five to twelve volts. The internal insulation is built for that much voltage. When they get a shot of static in the multiple thousand volt range, the insulation is punctured, and the chip ruined. Countless computers have been damaged this way. Read any manual on inserting memory chips to a PC, and you'll see warnings about static; it's a big problem. Now Tesla was working in the millions of volts range. And his special idea -- that the ground itself could be the conductor -- now comes into relevance, nearly a hundred years after his dramatic demonstration in Colorado Springs. For, you see, in our wisdom we've grounded our many computers, to protect them from static. We've always assumed the ground is an electrical sinkhole. So, with our three-pin plugs we ground everything -- the two flat pins in your wall go to electricity (hot and neutral); the third, round pin, goes straight to ground. That third pin is usually hooked with a thick wire to a cold water pipe, which grounds it effectively. Tesla proved that you can give that ground a terrific charge, millions of volts of high frequency electricity. (Tesla ran his large coil at 33 Khz). Remember, the lightning surging off his Coil was coming from the wave bouncing back and forth in the planet below. In short, he was modifying the ground's electrical potential, changing it from an electrical sinkhole to an electrical source. Tesla did his Page 5 experiment in 1899. There weren't any home computers with delicate chips hooked up to grounds then. If there had been, he'd have fried everything in Colorado Springs. There was, however, one piece of electrical equipment grounded at the time of the experiment, the city power generator. It caught fire and ended Tesla's experiment. The cause of its failure is interesting as well. It died from "high frequency kickback", something most electrical engineers know about. Tesla forgot that as the generator fed him power, he was feeding it high frequency from his Coil. High frequency quickly heats insulation; a microwave oven works on the same principle. In a few minutes, the insulation inside that generator grew so hot that the generator caught fire. When the lights went out all over Colorado Springs, there was the first proof that Tesla's idea has strategic possibilities. It gets scarier. Imagine Tesla's Coil, busily pumping an electrical wave in the Earth. On his side of the planet, he was getting 130 foot sparks, which is a hell of a lot of voltage and current. And simple wave theory will show you that those sort of potentials exist on the far side of the planet as well. Remember, the wave was bouncing back and forth, being reinforced on every trip. The big question is how focused the opposite electrical pole will be. No one knows. But it seems probable that the far side of the planet's ground target area could be subjected to considerable electrical interference. And if computer equipment is plugged inot that ground, faithfully assuming the ground will never be a source of electricity, it's just too bad for that equipment. This sort of electrical interference makes static look tiny by comparison. It doesn't take much difference in ground potential to kill a computer connected across it. Lightning strikes cause a temporary flare in ground voltage; I remember replacing driver chips on a network on all computers that had been caught by one lightning strike, when I lived in Austin. Imagine the effect on relatively delicate electronics if someone fires up a Tesla Coil on the far side of the planet, and subjects the grounds to steep electrical swings. The military applications are pretty obvious -- those ICBM's in North Dakota, for instance. It's possible they could be damaged in their silos, and from thousands of miles away. Running two or more Coils, you don't have to bee exactly on the far side of the planet, either. Interference effects can give you high points where you need with varied tunings. Maybe, just maybe, the Soviets aren't doing "over the horizon" radar. Maybe they just bothered to read Tesla's notes. And maybe they are tuning up a real big surprise with their twin Coils. "STAR WARS" AND THE TESLA COIL You've heard of the Strategic Defense Initiative, or "Star Wars". We're searching for a way to stop a nuclear attack. Right now, we've got all sorts of high powered research projects, with the emphasis on "new technology". Excimer laser, kinetic kill techniques, and even more exotic ideas. As any of you know that have written computer programs, it's darned hard to get something "new" to work. Maybe it's an error to focus on "new" exclusively. Wouldn't it be something if the solution to SDI lies a hundred years ago, in the forgotten brilliance of Nikola Tesla? For right now we can immobilize the electronics of installations half a planet away. The technology to do it was achieved in 1899, and promptly forgotten. Remember, we're not Page 6 talking vague, unproven theories here. We're talking the world's record for lightning, and the inventor whose power system lights up your house at night. THE TESLA COIL WORKS. All we'd have to do is build it. You might not believe the story about Tesla in Colorado Springs, and what he did. It's pretty amazing. It has a way of being forgotten because of that. And I'm not sure you want to hear about the SDI connection. Still, as you work on a computer, remember Tesla. His Tesla Coil supplies the high voltage for the picture tube you use. The electricity for your computer comes from a Tesla design AC generator, is sent through a Tesla transformer, and gets to your house through 3-phase Tesla power. Tesla's inventions... they have a way of working.. -------------------------------------------------------------------- If you have comments or other information relating to such topics as this paper covers, please upload to KeelyNet or send to the Vangard Sciences address as listed on the first page. Thank you for your consideration, interest and support. Jerry W. Decker.........Ron Barker...........Chuck Henderson Vangard Sciences/KeelyNet -------------------------------------------------------------------- If we can be of service, you may contact Jerry at (214) 324-8741 or Ron at (214) 242-9346 -------------------------------------------------------------------- EOF -- -* Don Allen *- InterNet: dona@bilver.UUCP // Amiga..for the best of us. USnail: 1818G Landing Dr, Sanford Fl 32771 \X/ Why use anything else? :-) UUCP: ..uunet!tarpit!bilver!vicstoy!dona 0110 0110 0110 Just say NO! Illuminati < MJ-12|Greys|TLC|CFR|FED|Bilderbergs > UN = "New World Order" Article: 6453 of alt.conspiracy Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!att!fang!tarpit!bilver!dona From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,misc.headlines,sci.energy Subject: Keelynet file - BROWN2.ASC Keywords: Townsend Brown and his Anti-Gravity Discs Message-ID: <1991Jul17.234723.14340@bilver.uucp> Date: 17 Jul 91 23:47:23 GMT Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL Lines: 486 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:1295 alt.conspiracy:6453 misc.headlines:17121 sci.energy:5014 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This information is presented for your persusal and is a continuation of my policy of informing the public what is currently available. The content of this information does NOT necessarily reflect the personal views of the poster,nor should the views,opinions,statements or claims represented in the following be accepted by anyone reading these texts at *face* value. If this interests you, please endeavor to research it yourself and investigate it to *your* satisfaction, and as such I will leave it in your hands to either prove it or de-bunk it :-) As I do not have a great amount of time available to pursue follow-ups exclusively, comments to me should be directed to dona@bilver.uucp in mail. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Keelynet file: BROWN2.ASC ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ (word processor parameters LM=8, RM=75, TM=2, BM=2) Taken from KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501 Sponsored by Vangard Sciences PO BOX 1031 Mesquite, TX 75150 May 5, 1991 BROWN2.ASC -------------------------------------------------------------------- From the November, 1958 FATE magazine. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Two diagrams are available for this article which are listed on KeelyNet under the title BRNGIF2.ZIP in the F) Pictures directory. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Townsend Brown and his Anti-Gravity Discs by Gaston Burridge Thomas Townsend Brown has been flying strange metal saucer-like discs of his own secret design and make for more than 30 years - some big ones too, up to 30 inches in diameter! Mostly, Brown has flown his discs in good old common air. The discs are tethered to a mast or pole and the thin, double-saucer-like things fly a circle around and around the mast in free flight. Only a slight hum is audible as they fly. In the dark they glow with an eerie lavender light, revealing their motive power which is a kind of electricity. Many scientists and engineers have watched these discs fly. Under their breath, and sometimes out loud, most of them have said the force which makes Brown's discoids spin is one which every high- school physics student knows about - "Electric Wind" - and not a new principle Brown has discovered at all! One engineer told me, "The whole thing is so screwball I don't want to even talk about it!" Another said, "The device is only about one-tenth of one percent efficient." Both these statements have since been proved incorrect! Most other engineers object to the lack of mathematical substantiation presented by Brown. To engineers and scientists one equation is worth a thousand words! But even an equation is of little use unless it has values assigned to at least some of its main parts. When these were not forthcoming, from a technical point of view, it appeared Brown was walking on straw legs. Then recently Brown went to France. Under what was virtually a French Government sponsored program of research, Air-France successfully flew some of the Brown discs in a HIGH VACUUM! And that took all the "electric wind" out of the previously dissenting sails1 These tests were of a highly secret nature and, because of this, and, because they were made in a foreign nation, their results REMAIN CLASSIFIED. One by one, U.S. engineering and scientific heads are beginning to Page 1 show above the storm cellars. It is now quietly admitted that perhaps Brown may have something after all! One thing he DOES have which he has not had before is a sponsor! Perhaps that is the reason for the heads showing from the cellars. There is nothing quite like having financial backing. What do Brown's inventions mean? Another kind, type, or arrangement of high-speed flight, both within our own atmosphere and in the space beyond it! How will it compare as a motive force with the rocket motors and the jet engines of today? Of course, we cannot say yet but there is nothing to indicate Brown's method will not compete most favorably with them. Brown's method has definite "anti-gravitic potentials' which their rockets or jets do not have. Because of present patent situations many details of the Brown system must be by-passed here, but it seems they represent no small item in the total picture of space flight. Since 1923 Brown and his family have spent nearly $250,000 of their own funds on experiments and research into the mysteries of that strangest of strange electrical phenomenon, the "Biefeld-Brown Effect". Electrical literature contains few writings on this subject, mostly because Brown has maintained a tight grip on the information and has not seen fit to write on the matter scientifically or otherwise. No one else has seemed inclined to research the matter. What is more American scientific journals are open to few ideas that DO NOT ORIGINATE with men CONNECTED WITH LARGE UNIVERSITY or COMMERCIAL RESEARCH LABORATORIES! I first heard of Townsend Brown and his Biefeld-Brown Effect from Mr. Arlin C. Hauser. Hauser is a designer and builder of fine technical instruments in Pasadena who doesn't hold an idea at arms- length because it is "new". Hauser furnished me a copy of a monograph titled, "A SIMPLIFIED EXPLANATION OF THE APPLICATION OF THE BIEFELD-BROWN EFFECT TO THE SOLUTION OF THE PROBLEMS OF SPACE NAVIGATION". This monograph was published by Dr. Mason Rose, president of the University for Social Research, Los Angeles, but was actually written, I learned later, by Mr. Bradford Shank, a nuclear scientist, formally of Los Alamos, now engaged in engineering work for a Los Angeles aircraft valve manufacturer. Some of the information set forth in this monograph rang a bell way back in my memory. Between 1919 and 1925 I was "errand boy" in a laboratory conducting experiments with high potential, high frequency alternating currents. We were playing with a million volts at 750,000 cycles per second! A new type of electrical condenser had been built and was to be tested. It was hooked into the circuit but was not "bolted down" - it was heavy. The director stood at the switchboard; the rest of us at a respectful distance away. The switch was thrown. There was a hum, a bursting flash of green and purple light, a loud bang, a violent lurch and twist of the new condenser and that piece of apparatus lay a smoking ruin! The director said, "Gentlemen, our baby has grown up!" Page 2 It is this movement manifest in an electrical condenser which is the essence of the Biefeld-Brown Effect. This movement makes the Effect highly interesting as an anti-gravitic force! The Biefeld-Brown Effect says an electrical condenser, when charged, will MOVE TORWARD its positive pole and remain so positioned UNTIL DISCHARGED, if free to do so, regardless of WHICH POLE or WHICH SIDE of the dielectric is made positive. This movement does not disregard the time-honored "law" which indicates every action carries within it an equal reaction. The reaction, as in gravitation, is present BUT NOT OBVIOUS. The reaction is a finite but vanishingly small movement of all the other matter in the Universe. But the nearest masses are affected first and most! The Effect was first observed when the condenser plates were charged with a DIRECT CURRENT. But the experience noted above, which was observed subsequently during other experiments, indicates something of the same phenomenon is present when condensers are charged with ALTERNATING current also - but probably not as effectively or as lastingly. While these alternating current condenser MOVEMENTS were noted at the time, especially when the condensers were initially charged after a long and complete discharge, those directing the research then believed the movements were due to resonances set up within the apparatus by the 60-cycle feed currents. Thus, this phenomenon, though noted, was never investigated by the group to which I was attached. This electrical condenser movement is believed to have been first perceived and examined by Dr. Paul Alfred Biefeld, professor of physics and astronomy, Denison University, Granville, Ohio, sometime before 1923. However, search of the Denison University's own published scientific records does not indicate Dr. Biefeld wrote anything regarding this discovery while there. Dr. Lawrence Biefeld, a son of Dr. Paul Alfred Biefeld, writes me that he does not recall his father ever having mentioned discovering such an effect! However, Mr. Bradford Shank who has been intimately associated with several phases of the Townsend Brown Foundation and its work for several years relates that Dr. Biefeld did originate the initial research into the Effect itself and also directed Townsend Brown, then a student at Denision University, in Brown's early interest in the matter. Although the Effect may have been recognized first by Dr. Biefeld, a greater part of the development research and ALL the practical application of it has been carried on by Brown - mostly at his own expense, over a period of more than 30 years. Apparently the Effect was named by someone else writing a report on the subject. But had it not been for Townsend Brown's long interest and research this Effect might remain unrecorded and unexploited still! Evidence indicates the entire Universe, from the greatest systems of stars and their planets down to the smallest atom and its parts - Page 3 hydrogen - operates on only three basic forces - electricity, magnetism and gravitation. These three forces may be entirely separate and different or they may be only different phases of the same force, a Universal force we have not yet distinguished as such. Regardless of this, we know the relationship between electricity and magnetism and we know this relationship is brought about and maintained by the very simple COIL OF WIRE! It is quite possible, through the Biefeld-Brown Effect, we have come upon the relationship between electricity and gravitation, a relationship being brought about and maintained through the very simple electrical condenser! If each of these three forces is considered separately, we find little of practical value in any of them! It is only through combinations of two, and perhaps more, that we begin to use them. Aside from the researches into the Biefeld-Brown Effect carried on by Mr. Brown science has done practically nothing toward developing the relationship between electricity and gravitation. Most scientists today will admit a weak COUPLING EFFECT DOES EXIST BETWEEN GRAVITATION AND ELECTRICITY but any practical use of this coupling effect they deny! Standing almost alone in this belief Mr. Brown has maintained his position regarding the matter stubbornly, faithfully, and devotedly. If a simple, two-plate electrical condenser (FIGURE 1) is suspended by a cord in such a way as to allow it complete freedom to to move in any direction, except downward of course, and this condenser is charged with the proper amount and pressure of direct electric current the instrument will swing TOWARD the side holding the POSITIVE CHARGE. If this same condenser is discharged, the positive and negative wires switched and connected oppositely, when recharged the condenser will swing in the OPPOSITE DIRECTION. If the condenser is placed upon one side of a balanced beam (FIGURE 2) with enough weight opposite it to continue the balance and if the positive pole is pointed up, when the condenser is charged the weight on the opposite side of the beam will fall and the entire condenser WILL RISE! This shows that some of the "weight" of the condenser has been relieved. If the positive pole now is reversed, when the condenser is again charged the weight on the opposite end of the beam WILL BE LIFTED! This illustrates gravitic affect. This is the Biefeld-Brown Effect. As far is now known it is the only method of affecting the gravitational field electrically! However, apparently there are several other research programs now under way attempting to establish an electro-gravitic relationship. One of the mysteries of this Effect is that it APPEARS TO BE AFFECTED BY TIME! Time does not do away with the Effect completely, but it does appear to minimize it temporarily. This was noted first by Brown during experiments located in a closed room. Page 4 He watched his discs through a telescope from outside the room. Brown observed that after a time the discs did not swing quite so far as initially, in either direction, with the same electric charge. I understood from Mr. Shank that this point was discussed with Albert Einstein but what Mr. Einstein had to say remains unknown to me. The phenomenon might be accounted for by subtle atomic structural breakdowns in the dielectric material, or in the plate material, or both. After a time, following a complete discharge, these breakdowns mend themselves. The intensity with which the Biefeld-Brown Effect may act is determined by five factors. Ultimate intensity cannot possibly be obtained by a combined use of all five factors - each in their separate ultimates! A compromise must be made. This is not as grave a disadvantage as it might seem at first, for it will allow an almost endless arrangement of factors in any given disc or ship. The best combination of these then may be chosen and applied to a wide variety of practical conditions which will surely arise in everyday aeronautical or astronautical flight. 1) PROXIMITY OF PLATES The first factor regulating the intensity of the Effect is controlled by the closeness at which the condenser's plates can be set. If the charging pressure - or voltage - is high then the plates will have to be farther apart than for lower voltages -using the same dielectric. If it is necessary to charge the condenser quickly a higher voltage is needed than if more time can be taken. Hence, the closer the condenser plates the greated the Effect gained - other circumstances remaining the same. 2) DIELECTRIC CONSTANT The second factor is the ability of the material chosen as a dielectric to store electrical energy. There are many kinds of dielectrics: glass, mica, rubber, paper, bakelite, air, ceramics, and many of the plastics. A dielectric is any material which opposes the flow of an electric current and at the same time is capable of storing the electrical energy as an "elastic stress." The action resembles the squeezing of a soft rubber ball. The muscles in your hand represent the electric voltage. They squeeze the ball's sides together. The sides remain squeezed until your muscles release their pressure, then the sides jump back into their original shape. A dielectric will absorb an electric charge until its capacity has been reached. Then it will either hold that charge as long as the charging force is present, or it will rupture and the pressure will leak away, or if the accumulated pressure becomes greater than the charging pressure it will discharge itself back into the charging circuit! This last can raise the devil! Some dielectrics are capable of absorbing a great quantity of Page 5 electrical energy if that energy is applied slowly at moderate pressure, but they break down if called upon to act quickly. Other dielectrics, like lead-free glass, can be charged and discharged thousands of times a second at high pressures. The measure of a dielectric's ability is called the "K" of the material. The higher the K, the greater is the Biefeld-Brown Effect. 3) INTENSITY A third factor in creating intensity of the Effect is the AREA of the dielectric's charging plates. The discs are used edgewise, and the greater their area, the greater the Effect obtained. 4) VOLTAGE A fourth factor has to do with the VOLTAGE, or pressure used to charge the condenser's plates. The higher the voltage, the greater the Effect. Also, the higher the voltage the shorter the time required to charge a given condenser size. But the voltage must not be so high as to puncture the dielectric, the condenser is permanently, or temporarily ruined - depending upon its ability to "heal" itself. Solid dielectrics cannot heal themselves. Fluids heal themselves almost as soon as punctured. (the reason for using OIL filled capacitors...Vangard) 5) MASS (SURFACE AREA) The fifth and last factor is the MASS ofthe dielectric. The greater the mass, the larger the Effect. These points all are important. They make it clear that by a not too complicated electrical arrangement which allows the changing of many positive pole positions at will an astronautical vehicle could be controlled. Since a circle contains the greatest number of square units of surface for a given dimension (a torus has even greater surface area...Vangard), it seems obvious that a shallow, disc-shaped vehicle could use this type of energy field to greatest advantage. It would be charged differently than the models because it could carry its own charging equipment on board. The input energy of some models tested in California quite some time ago (they do not represent present experimental attainments) was about 50 watts, or the requirements of a small light bulb. The weight of these units was about 1200 grams, or around 42 ounces, or near two and 6/10 pounds. The efficiency of propulsion was 2%. Unless scientific findings are discounted, we must assume the voltage of atmospheric electricity rises as the distance from the earth's surface increases. At low altitudes we sometimes record an increase of 100 volts for Page 6 EVERY THREE FEET IN ELEVATION. But this increase RISES WITH ALTITUDE. It is believed that in that ionosphere a potential of 100 volts may occur within only four inches! Even though a discoid-shaped vehicle could be relatively thin, compared to its diameter, still it would be many times four inches thick. Hence, it would be subjected to tremendous differentials of external electric pressure over its extreme dimensions. How will this affect the Biefeld-Brown Effect - or any electrically propelled vehicle? Some say, not at all. Others see it as a sizable barrier! Anti-gravity devices apparently are being experimented with from a number of directions. Once any one of them becomes practical a whole new horizon will unfold before mankind. At the present time (1958) some 19 patent applications, covering the Biefeld-Brown Effect and its various applied forms, are being worked on. A new laboratory is also being built. Will Mr. Brown be the first Earthman to build and fly a FLYING SAUCER? -------------------------------------------------------------------- Vangard notes.. The Law of Equilibrium includes Density. All things Rise or Fall to their own Density. This density can consist of energy in many forms, electric, magnetic, tachyon, etc. Note the remark regarding the higher voltage potentials in the upper atmosphere. Both the Brown disc and the Searle disc rely on very high voltage potentials to provide lift. The question is whether the electricity seeks its own upper atmosphere level or does it cause some kind of stress in some other type of energy to cause repulsion from the Earth surface or ATTRACTION TO A LAYER EQUIVALENT TO ITS OWN. -------------------------------------------------------------------- If you have comments or other information relating to such topics as this paper covers, please upload to KeelyNet or send to the Vangard Sciences address as listed on the first page. Thank you for your consideration, interest and support. Jerry W. Decker.........Ron Barker...........Chuck Henderson Vangard Sciences/KeelyNet -------------------------------------------------------------------- If we can be of service, you may contact Jerry at (214) 324-8741 or Ron at (214) 242-9346 -------------------------------------------------------------------- EOF -- -* Don Allen *- InterNet: dona@bilver.UUCP // Amiga..for the best of us. USnail: 1818G Landing Dr, Sanford Fl 32771 \X/ Why use anything else? :-) UUCP: ..uunet!tarpit!bilver!vicstoy!dona 0110 0110 0110 Just say NO! Illuminati < MJ-12|Greys|TLC|CFR|FED|Bilderbergs > UN = "New World Order" Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: My Enounters, Opinions Message-ID: <72505.28852DBC@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 18 Jul 91 02:07:00 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - ParaNet(sm) A, Arvada CO Lines: 63 > From: cee1@ra.MsState.Edu (The Chuckmeister) > Date: 16 Jul 91 17:29:43 GMT > Organization: Mississippi State University > Message-ID: <1201@ra.MsState.Edu> > Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors > 3. I firmly beleive UFOs/intelligent life exist, the evidence is > overwhelming, > I think the most documented phonomena in world history and the GOVT > is cov > ering up. My personal belief is that these creatures are demons/evil > spirits/ > in some physical bodies, as it seems by other posts, others beleive > this > also. I am a Christian and have tried to weigh the evidence of what > they > MIGHT be, and that is the only logical conclusion I could come up > with. I would be very interested in hearing your arguments for this belief. > 4. What are these 'new' findings of JFK being shot from his car? That is highly unreliable information. There is a film circulating around that allegedly shows the driver turn and fire a gun, however it is obvious that the film is "doctored." > 5. What is this about a coverup about MLK Jr? I don't know. What have you heard? > 6. Underground bases in the Colorados etc.. There are probably lots of underground bases. Would this be so unusual? > 7. ANyone on here from Gulf Breeze and see UFO's all the time? I'd like > some info on stuff. > > 8. Is there an ftp site with archives of old _arge_ postings of stuff, > the > ones like with 700 or so lines of stuff, I would be interested. Our network has a large ftp site at uiowa.edu. It is anonymous too. > 9. Arer there any UFO boards that I could subscribe to, any info would > be > helpful. Contact me at mcorbin@scicom.alphacd.com for information on my network, ParaNet. You can also be placed on our list server by sending your request to infopara@scicom.alphacdc.com. Our digest is very interesting and seriously covers this subject, including the abduction phenomenon. Thanks, Mike -- Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: A Way Out Of Here. Message-ID: <72506.28852DBE@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 18 Jul 91 02:12:00 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - ParaNet(sm) A, Arvada CO Lines: 37 > From: JOHNFW@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU > Date: 16 Jul 91 17:33:13 GMT > Organization: Stanford Linear Accelerator Center > Message-ID: <91197.093313JOHNFW@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> > Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal,sci.skeptic > Last week a person by the name of Oscar the Grouch made the > statement something like this; what is the use anyway we're > never going to make it out of here anyway. To this statement > I'd like to submit the following opinion; it the past I've > mentioned a person by the name of Elling Bentsen from Oslo, > Norway who is a UFO book writer. What I didn't mention is that > he claims to be in contact with the peoploe from Proximina Centauri > which is 25 trillion miles away. The people from there say they > have found us to have problems of over population and polution. > They say they have a planet called PC22 that is a lot like our > Earth was l50 years ago. They say by l994 they will bring their > space ships and anyone can go that so desires. I'll leave you > with this saying; the only way we're going to get out of here > alive is get on the ball. What really amazes me about all of this alleged "space brothers" stuff is that we continue hearing the same thing, and have done so for the last forty years. Why don't the "brothers" provide solutions instead of empty promises of teleportation off of this rock? It would be better to fix the problems here than to go somewhere else and have them all over again. Agree? Or, better, would it not be in their best interest to teach us a better way? No. I don't think that they have much on the ball either. Mike -- Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Alien Hand? Message-ID: <72507.28852DC0@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 18 Jul 91 02:14:00 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - ParaNet(sm) A, Arvada CO Lines: 25 > From: jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer) > Date: 17 Jul 91 03:21:10 GMT > Organization: The Search For TERRESTRIAL Intelligence > Message-ID: > Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic > Kim Mikules has an offer he thinks you can't refuse. AI-TRAD, the > organization he works for, will give $500,000 to anyone who can > produce > evidence of E.T.'s. I can offer some advice following a brief investigation of this group: LET THE BUYER BEWARE! Don Ecker has further information on them, if you would care to access him via ParaNet's ASK UFO Magazine conference on the network, or via infopara. Mike -- Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG Path: ns-mx!uunet!cbmvax!amix!vanth!jms From: jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: what about the last 44 years ?READ/NEW Message-ID: Date: 18 Jul 91 04:04:26 GMT References: <1991Jul10.084842.24362@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au> <1991Jul15.121750.1091@vax.oxford.ac.uk> Organization: The Search For TERRESTRIAL Intelligence Lines: 18 In article <1991Jul15.121750.1091@vax.oxford.ac.uk> ameij@vax.oxford.ac.uk writes: >For beings who can traverse the unimaginable vastness of space (albeit in order >mainly to dance in cornfields and take teach-yourself-abattoir-skills courses) >they really don't seem to competant at landing, do they? The Roswell incident has been attributed to lightning, and others in the area to radar. It's conceivable, though I don't know how probable, that the alleged aliens don't have either of these things back home. Nobody knows what caused the alleged Kecksburg PA crash, or the dubious one in Ontario. The other extremely dubious one in South Africa was a shoot-down with some type of particle beam weapon. -- * From the disk of: | jms@vanth.uucp | "Let's become Jim Shaffer, Jr. | amix.commodore.com!vanth!jms | alive again." 37 Brook Street | uunet!cbmvax!amix!vanth!jms | Montgomery, PA 17752 | 72750.2335@compuserve.com | --Yes Article: 2211 of alt.paranormal Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!boulder!spot.Colorado.EDU!bradleyt From: bradleyt@spot.Colorado.EDU (Todd Bradley) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.paranormal,misc.headlines Subject: Re: FILE: WPAT.TXT - UFO's at Wright Patterson? Message-ID: <1991Jul18.171421.29760@colorado.edu> Date: 18 Jul 91 17:14:21 GMT References: <1991Jul17.063110.7651@bilver.uucp> <1991Jul17.182412.29452@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> Sender: news@colorado.edu (The Daily Planet) Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder Lines: 31 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:1302 alt.conspiracy:6458 alt.paranormal:2211 misc.headlines:17124 Nntp-Posting-Host: spot.colorado.edu In article <1991Jul17.182412.29452@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> mas35638@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Mike Stangel) writes: >Why do you suppose the military never responds to these posts? I have >no doubt that someone in the Air Force is reading these things. I am >also aware that whoever is reading them probably does not have the >authority to make a statement regarding AF policy, but were this any >other media I guarantee you'd hear from a spokesperson. > > Give me a break. What do you expect them to say? If they do have alien bodies or vehicles, the information is surely so classified that nobody has the authority to release it. If they don't have alien bodies or vehicles, what is there to announce? Todd. >|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| >| "You've got wonderful bones, great eyes, and you | Mike Stangel | >| dress really interestingly." | m-stangel@uiuc.edu | >| | koosh forever! | >`~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~' -- ------------------------------------------------------------- | bradleyt@spot.Colorado.EDU | (303) 443-6317 home | | BRADLEY_T@CUBLDR.COLORADO.EDU | (303) 530-9000 office | ------------------------------------------------------------- Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!unix.cis.pitt.edu!gvlf3.gvl.unisys.com!tredysvr!cellar!revpk From: revpk@cellar.UUCP (Brian 'Rev P-K' Siano) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: A way out of here. Message-ID: Date: 18 Jul 91 23:17:52 GMT References: <91198.220255ERSHC@CUNYVM.BITNET> Sender: bbs@cellar.UUCP (The Cellar BBS) Organization: The Cellar BBS and public access system Lines: 22 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:1306 sci.skeptic:13082 ERSHC@CUNYVM.BITNET writes: > In article <91197.093313JOHNFW@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>, > JOHNFW@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU says: > >They say they have a planet called PC22 that is a lot like our > >Earth was l50 years ago. They say by l994 they will bring their > >space ships and anyone can go that so desires. I'll leave you > > 'Don't go....To Serve Man....it's a cookbook!!' > > (thanks Harlan) Harlan? Nahh, not Harlan. The original story was Damon Knight's. Rev. P-K-- "However, 'The Terminator' was more than a shade 'influenced' by the segments Ellison wrote for 'The Outer Limits.'" """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" Brian Siano, Delaware Valley Skeptics Rev. Philosopher-King of The First Church of the Divine Otis Redding revpk@Cellar.UUCP "Ecrasez l'enfame!" - Voltaire """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" Article: 2219 of alt.paranormal Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!news.iastate.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!uxa.cso.uiuc.edu!mas35638 From: mas35638@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Mike Stangel) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.paranormal,misc.headlines Subject: Re: FILE: WPAT.TXT - UFO's at Wright Patterson? Message-ID: <1991Jul19.032458.20942@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> Date: 19 Jul 91 03:24:58 GMT References: <1991Jul17.063110.7651@bilver.uucp> <1991Jul17.182412.29452@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> <1991Jul18.171421.29760@colorado.edu> Sender: usenet@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (News) Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana Lines: 10 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:1309 alt.conspiracy:6462 alt.paranormal:2219 misc.headlines:17128 Todd missed my point. If the Chicago Tribune reported that the USAF was keeping alien bodies/ships at Wright Pat, you'd hear a denial within hours. They apparently don't take the net as a valid method of communication, despite the fact that its readership is huge... |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| | "You've got wonderful bones, great eyes, and you | Mike Stangel | | dress really interestingly." | m-stangel@uiuc.edu | | | koosh forever! | `~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~' Article: 1310 of alt.alien.visitors Path: ns-mx!uunet!cbmvax!amix!vanth!jms From: jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: ufo encounter Message-ID: Date: 18 Jul 91 03:57:38 GMT References: <625@hub.ucsb.edu> <1991Jul15.165533.14428@sodium.att.com> Organization: The Search For TERRESTRIAL Intelligence Lines: 7 It's a possibility, and one I hadn't thought of. Thanks! -- * From the disk of: | jms@vanth.uucp | "Let's become Jim Shaffer, Jr. | amix.commodore.com!vanth!jms | alive again." 37 Brook Street | uunet!cbmvax!amix!vanth!jms | Montgomery, PA 17752 | 72750.2335@compuserve.com | --Yes Article: 1311 of alt.alien.visitors Path: ns-mx!uunet!cbmvax!amix!vanth!jms From: jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: what about the last 44 years ?READ/NEW Message-ID: Date: 18 Jul 91 04:04:26 GMT References: <1991Jul10.084842.24362@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au> <1991Jul15.121750.1091@vax.oxford.ac.uk> Organization: The Search For TERRESTRIAL Intelligence Lines: 18 In article <1991Jul15.121750.1091@vax.oxford.ac.uk> ameij@vax.oxford.ac.uk writes: >For beings who can traverse the unimaginable vastness of space (albeit in order >mainly to dance in cornfields and take teach-yourself-abattoir-skills courses) >they really don't seem to competant at landing, do they? The Roswell incident has been attributed to lightning, and others in the area to radar. It's conceivable, though I don't know how probable, that the alleged aliens don't have either of these things back home. Nobody knows what caused the alleged Kecksburg PA crash, or the dubious one in Ontario. The other extremely dubious one in South Africa was a shoot-down with some type of particle beam weapon. -- * From the disk of: | jms@vanth.uucp | "Let's become Jim Shaffer, Jr. | amix.commodore.com!vanth!jms | alive again." 37 Brook Street | uunet!cbmvax!amix!vanth!jms | Montgomery, PA 17752 | 72750.2335@compuserve.com | --Yes Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!ukc!ox-prg!oxuniv!ameij From: ameij@vax.oxford.ac.uk Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Incompetant Aliens Message-ID: <1991Jul18.110225.1147@vax.oxford.ac.uk> Date: 18 Jul 91 10:02:25 GMT References: <1991Jul10.084842.24362@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au> <1991Jul15.121750.1091@vax.oxford.ac.uk> <8408@spdcc.SPDCC.COM> Organization: Oxford University VAXcluster Lines: 17 In article <8408@spdcc.SPDCC.COM>, rdonahue@spdcc.COM (Bob Donahue) writes: > ameij@vax.oxford.ac.uk writes: >>For beings who can traverse the unimaginable vastness of space (albeit in order >>mainly to dance in cornfields and take teach-yourself-abattoir-skills courses) >>they really don't seem to competant at landing, do they? > > Well, see their ships are ozone powered... :-) > > What's even stranger is that they continually pick up > and mutilate cattle... What sort of info do they gain from their > 7,893rd cow? > Personally I think they've read too many Gary Larson cartoons and are desperately trying to work out which species to ally themselves with. Article: 1314 of alt.alien.visitors Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!cs.utexas.edu!rice!uupsi!dorsaidm!kizn From: kizn@dorsai.com (Daniel Delvalle) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: ufo encounter Keywords: ufo encounter Message-ID: Date: 18 Jul 91 08:55:37 GMT References: <1991Jul12.222834.29211@unislc.uucp> Organization: The Dorsai Diplomatic Mission ( Mail address : user@dorsai.com ) Lines: 61 mru@unislc.uucp (Mara Ulis) writes: > In article <625@hub.ucsb.edu> 6600hubb@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu (Richard Hubbell) wri > >Did anyone see a show that had a piece on a ufo encounter in Texas? > >I saw part of it tonite (7-10-91) I missed a portion of it when > >signal went out from channel 6. A woman, her mother, and a child > >were driving when they saw some kind of craft. They stopped and the > >woman got out of the car to look at the ufo. The encounter lasted about > >ten minutes. The ufo was hovering the whole time. The ufo left and > >the woman got into the car as they were leaving a squadron of > >helicopters approached (the older woman counted 23 helicopters) she > >described them as the type with to rotors. Approx. 6 hours later they > >all became ill. The mother had the worst symptoms, followed by the > >child and then the older woman. According to the physician treating her > >she suffered from radiation exposure. Her skin was burned and she > >eventually lost her hair. A ufo researcher went to the site where > >this occurred and verified a dark patch of the asphalt that had been > >scarred by intense heat. I think his name was Schlouser(sp.) he also > >was told later that some trucks had gone to the site and removed all > >traces of the burnt asphalt and replaced it with new. > > At first the Air Force acknowledged that something did > >occur but then they went back on there original claim and denied that > >anything happened. I'd like to hear more about this incident if > >anyone can add more info. It happened 10 years ago in late 1980 > >in Texas(Dayton?). All three are still alive but the woman has been > >diagnosed with cancer and the older woman and child still also > >suffer from strange illnesses. > > > >RH > > > >-- > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- > >" University of California Santa Barbara Richard Hubbell " > >"6600hubb@ -> Inet:ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu;Bitnet:ucsbuxa.bitnet;UUCP:ucsbuxa " > >_______________________________________________________________________ > > You are referring to the Andreasson Affair. The MUFON investigator > was John Schussler(sp). There are some books out about this case. > Also, you might contact MUFON for more information. Their address is > Walt Andrus, Director 103 Oldtowne Road Seguin, Texas 78155. > Hope this helps. > > Mara Ulis > Sorry Mara, But the Andreasson Affair was a CE3 type case that ha@ppened , I believe, in the late 70's...Betty Andreasson reported being abducted by three aliens, while preparing supper for her family at home. The case Richard reffers to is a CE2 type case that happened in the early 80's. Betty Cash and two others reported seeing a UFO and about 20 Tandem rotor Helicopters hovering above a Highway in Dayton Texas. I recall that after having gotten very little help from the goverment, Ms. Cash brought a lawsuit against the military to try and find out what type of radiation she was exposed to. as far as I know... She might still be dragging it through the courts. Kizn. Article: 2225 of alt.paranormal Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!pacbell.com!att!att!fang!tarpit!bilver!dona From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.paranormal,misc.headlines Subject: Re: FILE: WPAT.TXT - UFO's at Wright Patterson? Message-ID: <1991Jul19.010918.23396@bilver.uucp> Date: 19 Jul 91 01:09:18 GMT References: <1991Jul17.063110.7651@bilver.uucp> <1991Jul17.182412.29452@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL Lines: 61 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:1315 alt.conspiracy:6463 alt.paranormal:2225 misc.headlines:17130 In article <1991Jul17.182412.29452@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> mas35638@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Mike Stangel) writes: >Why do you suppose the military never responds to these posts? I have >no doubt that someone in the Air Force is reading these things. I am >also aware that whoever is reading them probably does not have the >authority to make a statement regarding AF policy, but were this any >other media I guarantee you'd hear from a spokesperson. > > >|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| >| "You've got wonderful bones, great eyes, and you | Mike Stangel | >| dress really interestingly." | m-stangel@uiuc.edu | >| | koosh forever! | >`~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~' Mike, I have no doubts that these postings are read by various branches of the military, as they wend their way through ARPANET and are printed out. What "secrets" have I un-leashed upon the public that isn't already widely speculated,talked about and known about on the vaious UFO echoes of the BBS world? What texts have been published here that the military doesn't already know about? Actually, I have a great respect for the military..perhaps they have had to sit upon a considerable amount of info, that if it all came out in a great "revelation" could dramatically alter our "way of life" as regards to religion,commerce,etc. Methinks (IMHO) that in the beginning of the cover-up, that there was possibly some noble motives..like the Govt looking at the panic that Orson Welles created in his Mercury Players presentation of "War of the Worlds"..so-called "respectable and common sense" people FREAKED when they thought we were being "invaded" by Martians. I think that was the motive _in the beginning_...however there is much literature that has come out within the last 20 years to suggest that perhaps the military has made "agreements" with the WRONG "aliens".. Now, I really *don't* expect to see any individual members of the military come out _up front_ here in a PUBLIC newsgroup and say something either one way or another. The Govt has more covert methods of dis-information, which they take advantage of under different "disguises"... See if you can spot the "agents of dis-info" in this newsgroup..they are the ones telling you in snide comments that there are NO such thing as "flying saucers" or an "alien invasion"...the overwhelming evidence, in my opinion speaks to the contrary. Just as an aside..here's a little exercise for you...look to see how many commercials are using UFO's in their spots... "V" might have more truth in it than you know :-) Don -- -* Don Allen *- InterNet: dona@bilver.UUCP // Amiga..for the best of us. USnail: 1818G Landing Dr, Sanford Fl 32771 \X/ Why use anything else? :-) UUCP: ..uunet!tarpit!bilver!vicstoy!dona 0110 0110 0110 Just say NO! Illuminati < MJ-12|Greys|TLC|CFR|FED|Bilderbergs > UN = "New World Order" Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!unix.cis.pitt.edu!gvlf3.gvl.unisys.com!tredysvr!cellar!revpk From: revpk@cellar.UUCP (Brian 'Rev P-K' Siano) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Incompetant Aliens Message-ID: Date: 20 Jul 91 00:29:16 GMT References: <1991Jul18.110225.1147@vax.oxford.ac.uk> Sender: bbs@cellar.UUCP (The Cellar BBS) Organization: The Cellar BBS and public access system Lines: 31 ameij@vax.oxford.ac.uk writes: > In article <8408@spdcc.SPDCC.COM>, rdonahue@spdcc.COM (Bob Donahue) writes: > > ameij@vax.oxford.ac.uk writes: > >>For beings who can traverse the unimaginable vastness of space (albeit in o > >>mainly to dance in cornfields and take teach-yourself-abattoir-skills cours > >>they really don't seem to competant at landing, do they? > > > > Well, see their ships are ozone powered... :-) > > > > What's even stranger is that they continually pick up > > and mutilate cattle... What sort of info do they gain from their > > 7,893rd cow? > > > Personally I think they've read too many Gary Larson cartoons and are > desperately trying to work out which species to ally themselves with. > > > Jan I sort of figured they were just trying to fuck with our heads. Rev. P-K-- "Say, Zandor! Whaddya say we get a cow, drain it of all the blood, take a slice out of its insides, and leave it where someone's BOUND to find it?" """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" Brian Siano, Delaware Valley Skeptics Rev. Philosopher-King of The First Church of the Divine Otis Redding revpk@Cellar.UUCP "Ecrasez l'enfame!" - Voltaire """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!news.bbn.com!nic!mars.caps.maine.edu!maine.maine.edu!umasp From: UMASP@MAINE.MAINE.EDU Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: t'would make an unusual trophy... Message-ID: <91200.212108UMASP@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> Date: 20 Jul 91 01:21:08 GMT References: <9408@awdprime.UUCP> Organization: University of Maine System Lines: 31 In article <9408@awdprime.UUCP>, craigb@woofer.austin.ibm.com (Craig Becker) says: > >Just out of curiousity, are there any reports/stories of people ever > >a) shooting (or attempting to shoot) a UFO? (ie, with a rifle, handgun, etc). >b) shooting (or attempting to shoot) an extraterrestrial? > >If so, I'd be interested in hearing about such incidents (and any >reported consequences). > >Thanks! I seem to remember reading once about a family (in Texas?) who saw a UFO land in their back yard. When the aliens tried to come towards the house, the owners shot at them, hitting some. Apparently, the aliens were wearing some sort of protective suit that seemed to make the bullets ricochet off. The family managed to keep the aliens at bay for over 3 hours. When the sheriff arrived later, he said he wasn't sure what had happened but that since these were normal and sane people, and he knew them well, there must have been something out there that they shot at. He found over 300 empty shells of various calibers ranging from .22's up to 30-30's. The sheriff said these people were not the kind to try to attract attention to themselves so he didn't think it was a hoax. I'll try to find the article again and if I find it, I'll post it here. George Newell umasp@maine.maine.edu Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!swrinde!emory!ra!cee1 From: cee1@ra.MsState.Edu (The Chuckmeister) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: My Enounters, Opinions Message-ID: Date: 20 Jul 91 02:18:41 GMT References: <72505.28852DBC@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Lines: 107 Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) writes: [..my old header deleted...] > > 3. I firmly beleive UFOs/intelligent life exist, the evidence is > > overwhelming, > > I think the most documented phonomena in world history and the GOVT > > is cov > > ering up. My personal belief is that these creatures are demons/evil > > spirits/ > > in some physical bodies, as it seems by other posts, others beleive > > this > > also. I am a Christian and have tried to weigh the evidence of what > > they > > MIGHT be, and that is the only logical conclusion I could come up > > with. >I would be very interested in hearing your arguments for this belief. Well after, ya know, 1000 people saw this one, 100 saw this one, non-proven-hoaxed UFO photos, Retired military confessions of gov't coverup, dozens and dozens of TOP SECRET memos etc, on and on and on. You could say well its a hoax, or alllll these people are wacko. Why demons.. well , as I believe, God created all there is and was. So we ask, did God create folks on other planets or what. When talked to these creatures they knew of 'religious things' and what the Bible is, etc , and they are up to no good 'helping us' get Peace blah blah blah while abducting, implanting things in people's heads, taking samples, skinning cows, draining ponds, lakes and resivoirs, eating our electricity on and on and on. They certainly arent angels. [mind has gone blank on other stuff, argh..] its just my conclusion that they are demons in 'human' form. I'll try to get the rest later. > > 4. What are these 'new' findings of JFK being shot from his car? >That is highly unreliable information. There is a film circulating around >that allegedly shows the driver turn and fire a gun, however it is obvious I read it out of a previous UFO report on here on one guy's speech. Who used to be in the military and said it was all planned from the inside becasue , supposadly, JFK was going to put an end to nuclear aircraft and, supposadly tell the public that aliens were real or something like that, so they had him killed, either from a gun in the back of the driver's seat or the 'man' in the bushes. It is said the gun that shot whats-his-name ARGGGHHH Oswald? Lee Harvey whatever was a blank and he was the 'scapegoat' you have probly heard that [from old secret service, FBI, etc] that JFKs body was not the one everyone saw.. getting off the plane etcc.. his was taken off the other side, and ya know his brain was taken out because [new stuff I have heard recently] he was shot with a bullet tainted with some poison fish toxin .. which killed him. Its obvious from the film he was shot, at least in the front of the head. Maybe others can add to this HINT HINT HINT.. B B >that the film is "doctored." > > 5. What is this about a coverup about MLK Jr? >I don't know. What have you heard? I don't know either, something was said in a previous post.. > > 6. Underground bases in the Colorados etc.. >There are probably lots of underground bases. Would this be so unusual? Well people have seen VERY weird craft flying in and out of it. like those 24 copters chasing after something welse [probably 'experiemtal' UFO aircraft. But thats another story. > > 7. ANyone on here from Gulf Breeze and see UFO's all the time? I'd like > > some info on stuff. > > > > 8. Is there an ftp site with archives of old _arge_ postings of stuff, > > the > > ones like with 700 or so lines of stuff, I would be interested. >Our network has a large ftp site at uiowa.edu. It is anonymous too. Thanks > > 9. Arer there any UFO boards that I could subscribe to, any info would > > be > > helpful. >Contact me at mcorbin@scicom.alphacd.com for information on my network, >ParaNet. You can also be placed on our list server by sending your request to >infopara@scicom.alphacdc.com. Our digest is very interesting and seriously >covers this subject, including the abduction phenomenon. >Thanks, >Mike >-- >Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 >UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name >INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG -- -- Charles E. Evans Internet: cee1@ra.msstate.edu Bitnet: cee1@MSSTATE.BITNET . . . Ask me again and I'll knock ya down. Path: ns-mx!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!ut-emx!ibmchs!auschs!awdprime!woofer.Berkeley.EDU!craigb From: craigb@woofer.austin.ibm.com (Craig Becker) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: t'would make an unusual trophy... Message-ID: <9408@awdprime.UUCP> Date: 19 Jul 91 16:58:48 GMT Sender: news@awdprime.UUCP Reply-To: craigb@awdprime.austin.ibm.com Organization: IBM Object Technology Products Lines: 19 Just out of curiousity, are there any reports/stories of people ever a) shooting (or attempting to shoot) a UFO? (ie, with a rifle, handgun, etc). b) shooting (or attempting to shoot) an extraterrestrial? If so, I'd be interested in hearing about such incidents (and any reported consequences). Thanks! ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- "You can expect virtually Craig Becker, Object Technology Products -- -- anything from people that Internet: craigb@ausvm1.vnet.ibm.com -- -- had nuclear weapons in the Austin: craigb@woofer.austin.ibm.com -- -- early seventeenth century." VNET: CRAIGB at AUSVM1 -- ----------------- Y. Slide -------------------------------------------------- -- off 808/1K-020 zip 3008 ph (512) 823-1756 tl 793-1756 hm (512) 346-5397 -- -- IBM Personal Systems Programming, 11400 Burnet Road, Austin, TX, 78759 -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Article: 1334 of alt.alien.visitors Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!news.iastate.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!roundup.crhc.uiuc.edu!m.cs.uiuc.edu!vela!dlcogswe From: dlcogswe@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Dan Cogswell) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: what about the last 44 years ?READ/NEW Message-ID: <8160@vela.acs.oakland.edu> Date: 19 Jul 91 19:10:41 GMT References: <1991Jul10.084842.24362@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au> <1991Jul15.121750.1091@vax.oxford.ac.uk> Organization: Oakland University, Rochester MI. Lines: 24 jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer) writes: >In article <1991Jul15.121750.1091@vax.oxford.ac.uk> ameij@vax.oxford.ac.uk writes: >>For beings who can traverse the unimaginable vastness of space (albeit in order >>mainly to dance in cornfields and take teach-yourself-abattoir-skills courses) >>they really don't seem to competant at landing, do they? >The Roswell incident has been attributed to lightning, and others in the >area to radar. It's conceivable, though I don't know how probable, that >the alleged aliens don't have either of these things back home. Why does Roswell have to have been an accident? It could have been an intentional crash to see how we'd react to such a thing. After all, you'd think whoever *owned* the ship would come looking for it and survivors if they were really concerned. Please note: the US government didn't have an interest in the thing until some time AFTER the crash, like four to six days. If it was a top-secret fighter plane, etc. like some people claim, they wouldn't let the thing out of their sight for a minute. > Jim Shaffer, Jr. | amix.commodore.com!vanth!jms | alive again." -- Dan Cogswell dlcogswe@vela.acs.oakland.edu Mostly H20 and whatever pizza and Diet Pepsi digest into Path: ns-mx!uunet!cbmvax!amix!vanth!jms From: jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Paul Bennewitz [was Re: About Roswell and the Govt. Coverup] Message-ID: Date: 21 Jul 91 03:36:44 GMT References: <4480@anasaz.UUCP> <1991Jul12.000115.6189@bilver.uucp> <4494@anasaz.UUCP> <1991Jul17.054018.7055@bilver.uucp> Organization: The Search For TERRESTRIAL Intelligence Lines: 49 In article <1991Jul17.054018.7055@bilver.uucp> dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) writes: > >This most likely came of the Fido UFO echo not to long ago..'course >if you be *the* Bill Moore..then you would know something about the following: > >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Date: 06-18-91 19:55 >From: Ken Willoughby > > I got a long letter from Paul Bennewitz in which he wanted > me to put this onto bbd. I am copying verbatim what he says: > --1) The Archeleta Base was raided by a Delta Force, and of the > The Aliens within were killed outright. I can not vouch for > some of this although I have absolute proof that it was. It is How can you have absolute proof for something and not be able to vouch for it? > destroyed. The whole area was closed and all people were bared > from the mountain; it is now administrated by the Drug Admin- > istration (U.S.), so it is finished. The air strip was plowed > and barricaded. Has anyone actually confirmed this, i.e., checked that the DEA has seized any land in the area? > --2) About 80 escaped taking their ships with them; some were > out on patrol and thus they got away. 40 some odd established > thenselves in caves at Bear Mountain, in New Mexico. The rest > went to what is called, THE DOME, and are still at large. What is "The Dome"? I've read Bennewitz's "Project Beta" report, but I don't remember anything about bases other than Archuleta. > --3) I have contacted the Secretary of Defense, and a Senator; > also General Jaco and the new Administrator at Kirtland. Some > is attached to give the Coordinates which are fairly accurate. What was their reaction to such bizarre news? What was all this about? I had been told earlier this year that Bennewitz didn't want anything to do with UFOlogy anymore. Sounds like he's been keeping up on it and just not talking to anyone. -- * From the disk of: | jms@vanth.uucp | "Let's become Jim Shaffer, Jr. | amix.commodore.com!vanth!jms | alive again." 37 Brook Street | uunet!cbmvax!amix!vanth!jms | Montgomery, PA 17752 | 72750.2335@compuserve.com | --Yes Article: 2240 of alt.paranormal Path: ns-mx!uunet!spool.mu.edu!cs.umn.edu!ux.acs.umn.edu!oleary From: oleary@ux.acs.umn.edu (Doc O'Leary) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Do we shoot at UFO's Message-ID: <4344@ux.acs.umn.edu> Date: 21 Jul 91 03:39:59 GMT References: <91201.161829JOHNFW@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors Organization: University of Minnesota, Academic Computing Services Lines: 18 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:1336 alt.paranormal:2240 sci.skeptic:13121 In article <91201.161829JOHNFW@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> JOHNFW@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU writes: >I'll leave you with this saying; Their are none so blind as those >who will not see. Actually, I've always thought it was: "There are none so blind as those who do not think." Seems to be more appropriate for this newsgroup, too . . . --------- Doc ********************** Signature Block : Version 2.7 ********************* * | * * "Was it love, or was it the idea | Time flies whenever it damn * * of being in love?" -- PF | well pleases * * (BTW, which one *is* Pink?) | * * | --->oleary@ux.acs.umn.edu<--- * ****************** Copyright (c) 1991 by Doc O'Leary ******************** Article: 6476 of alt.conspiracy Path: ns-mx!uunet!cbmvax!amix!vanth!jms From: jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal,alt.conspiracy Subject: Re: FILE: ALIEN-TYPES.TXT Message-ID: Date: 21 Jul 91 03:53:41 GMT References: <1991Jul17.063943.7827@bilver.uucp> Organization: The Search For TERRESTRIAL Intelligence Lines: 33 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:1342 sci.skeptic:13126 alt.paranormal:2241 alt.conspiracy:6476 In article <1991Jul17.063943.7827@bilver.uucp> dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) writes: > MUFONET-BBS network - Mutual UFO Network > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > ALIEN DESCRIPTIONS - VARIETIES > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >[Note: This is a message from a participant of the CONTACT Echo, discussing >the types of aliens and their descriptions.] > >Date: 01-01-91 14:04 >From: Sandy Barbre >Subj: DESCRIPTIONS: ALIEN > >Below please find a copy of a variety of alien beings descriptions put on the >UFO echo by David House.... I thought you might find some of this interesting >and I know that a few of you don't get the UFO echo or just don't read it. >Okay...here goes... > >GREY TYPE A: This is the type most commonly referred to as the greys. Also >known as Zeta Reticuli from the Zeta Reticulan star system (the Bernard star) >neighboring the Orion area. They function in a mode that is apparently The constellation Reticulum doesn't neighbor the constellation Orion. They're not *really* far away from each other, but they're not adjoining either. And Barnard's Star isn't Zeta Reticuli. (I think in the versions I've heard, one race of aliens is from Zeta Ret and the other is from Barnard's Star. I can't remember if both are greys or the Barnard's Star race is something else.) -- * From the disk of: | jms@vanth.uucp | "Let's become Jim Shaffer, Jr. | amix.commodore.com!vanth!jms | alive again." 37 Brook Street | uunet!cbmvax!amix!vanth!jms | Montgomery, PA 17752 | 72750.2335@compuserve.com | --Yes Article: 1343 of alt.alien.visitors Path: ns-mx!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!wotan!moxie!ehpcb!ehbbs!ED.HOPPER From: ED.HOPPER@ehbbs.hou.tx.us (ED HOPPER) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: WHAT ABOUT THE LAST 44 YE Message-ID: Date: 21 Jul 91 16:46:10 GMT Organization: Ed Hopper's BBS - Houston, TX - 713-997-7575 Lines: 19 In reply to DAN COGSWELL: In Article dlcogswe@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Dan Cogswell) writes: -> Please note: the US government didn't have an interest in the thing until -> some time AFTER the crash, like four to six days. If it was a top-secret -> fighter plane, etc. like some people claim, they wouldn't let the thing out -> of their sight for a minute. Quite a valid point. Do you remember the incident, a few years ago, when an F-117A "Stealth" fighter crashed outside of Nellis AFB in Nevada? The fact that a crash occured was reported promptly. (They wouldn't of course, confirm the type of aircraft) The Air Force secured the crash site as soon as they found it. There were armed guards to keep the curious out. Had the Roswell crash been a secret US plane of the era, there would have been similar activity. PMS = Possessed Monthly by Satan --- . FM 0.10 #2 . ed.hopper@ehbbs.hou.tx.us Article: 1349 of alt.alien.visitors Path: ns-mx!uunet!viusys!uxui!unislc!mru From: mru@unislc.uucp (Mara Ulis) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: ufo encounter Keywords: ufo encounter Message-ID: <1991Jul22.151954.12934@unislc.uucp> Date: 22 Jul 91 15:19:54 GMT References: <1991Jul12.222834.29211@unislc.uucp> Reply-To: mru@unislc.UUCP (Mara Ulis,B2E10,5345) Organization: Unisys, Salt Lake City Lines: 71 In article kizn@dorsai.com (Daniel Delvalle) writes: >mru@unislc.uucp (Mara Ulis) writes: > >> In article <625@hub.ucsb.edu> 6600hubb@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu (Richard Hubbell) wri >> >Did anyone see a show that had a piece on a ufo encounter in Texas? >> >I saw part of it tonite (7-10-91) I missed a portion of it when >> >signal went out from channel 6. A woman, her mother, and a child >> >were driving when they saw some kind of craft. They stopped and the >> >woman got out of the car to look at the ufo. The encounter lasted about >> >ten minutes. The ufo was hovering the whole time. The ufo left and >> >the woman got into the car as they were leaving a squadron of >> >helicopters approached (the older woman counted 23 helicopters) she >> >described them as the type with to rotors. Approx. 6 hours later they >> >all became ill. The mother had the worst symptoms, followed by the >> >child and then the older woman. According to the physician treating her >> >she suffered from radiation exposure. Her skin was burned and she >> >eventually lost her hair. A ufo researcher went to the site where >> >this occurred and verified a dark patch of the asphalt that had been >> >scarred by intense heat. I think his name was Schlouser(sp.) he also >> >was told later that some trucks had gone to the site and removed all >> >traces of the burnt asphalt and replaced it with new. >> > At first the Air Force acknowledged that something did >> >occur but then they went back on there original claim and denied that >> >anything happened. I'd like to hear more about this incident if >> >anyone can add more info. It happened 10 years ago in late 1980 >> >in Texas(Dayton?). All three are still alive but the woman has been >> >diagnosed with cancer and the older woman and child still also >> >suffer from strange illnesses. >> > >> >RH >> > >> >-- >> >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >" University of California Santa Barbara Richard Hubbell " >> >"6600hubb@ -> Inet:ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu;Bitnet:ucsbuxa.bitnet;UUCP:ucsbuxa " >> >_______________________________________________________________________ >> >> You are referring to the Andreasson Affair. The MUFON investigator >> was John Schussler(sp). There are some books out about this case. >> Also, you might contact MUFON for more information. Their address is >> Walt Andrus, Director 103 Oldtowne Road Seguin, Texas 78155. >> Hope this helps. >> >> Mara Ulis >> > > > Sorry Mara, But the Andreasson Affair was a CE3 type case that ha@ppened , >I believe, in the late 70's...Betty Andreasson reported being abducted by >three aliens, while preparing supper for her family at home. > > The case Richard reffers to is a CE2 type case that happened in the early >80's. > Betty Cash and two others reported seeing a UFO and about 20 Tandem rotor >Helicopters hovering above a Highway in Dayton Texas. > I recall that after having gotten very little help from the goverment, Ms. >Cash brought a lawsuit against the military to try and find out what type of >radiation she was exposed to. > as far as I know... She might still be dragging it through the courts. > > > Kizn. You are absolutely correct. I realized my mistake after posting. Apologies to all for my mistake. Mara Ulis -- "They cannot speak. We can. Those who are /\ /\ articulate must be the voices of those who 0 0 are voiceless." =^= Richard Morgan 0 Article: 2250 of alt.paranormal Path: ns-mx!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!ucbvax!worlds.UUCP!warren From: warren@worlds.UUCP (Warren Burstein) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal,talk.religion.newage Subject: Re: UFOs Message-ID: <414@vaccine.UUCP> Date: 22 Jul 91 06:58:07 GMT References: <14384@goofy.Apple.COM> Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU Followup-To: sci.skeptic Organization: WorldWide Software Lines: 12 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:1354 sci.skeptic:13162 alt.paranormal:2250 talk.religion.newage:6203 In article <14384@goofy.Apple.COM> showen@applelink.Apple.com (Don Showen) writes: > >THE PLElADlANS channeled lecture by Barbara J. Marciniak What sort of advanced civilization are these dudes if they have to get someone else to post to the net for them? If they can't afford a Telebit ChannelerBlazer, the hell with them. -- /|/-\/-\ The entire world Jerusalem |__/__/_/ is a very strange carrot |warren@ But the farmer / worlds.COM is not worried at all. Article: 1372 of alt.alien.visitors Path: ns-mx!uunet!cbmvax!amix!vanth!jms From: jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: what about the last 44 years ?READ/NEW Message-ID: Date: 23 Jul 91 05:00:42 GMT References: <1991Jul10.084842.24362@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au> <1991Jul15.121750.1091@vax.oxford.ac.uk> <8160@vela.acs.oakland.edu> Organization: The Search For TERRESTRIAL Intelligence Lines: 26 In article <8160@vela.acs.oakland.edu> dlcogswe@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Dan Cogswell) writes: > >Why does Roswell have to have been an accident? It could have been an >intentional crash to see how we'd react to such a thing. After all, >you'd think whoever *owned* the ship would come looking for it and >survivors if they were really concerned. I never thought about that. If the aliens have no apparent emotion as some people claim, maybe they wouldn't care about the death of the ship's crew. (Some people even say they're cloned rather than bred, if I remember rightly.) But you'd think they'd want to keep the ship away from us. (Unless they knew we were too primitive to understand any of it.) >Please note: the US government didn't have an interest in the thing >until some time AFTER the crash, like four to six days. If it was a >top-secret fighter plane, etc. like some people claim, they wouldn't let >the thing out of their sight for a minute. I never heard the top-secret plane explanation applied to Roswell. It's usually a balloon-borne radar test target or a Japanese balloon bomb. -- * From the disk of: | jms@vanth.uucp | "Let's become Jim Shaffer, Jr. | amix.commodore.com!vanth!jms | alive again." 37 Brook Street | uunet!cbmvax!amix!vanth!jms | Montgomery, PA 17752 | 72750.2335@compuserve.com | --Yes Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!hplabs!hpda!hpcupt1!trey From: trey@hpcupt1.cup.hp.com (Trey Wedge) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Project Majestic Question Message-ID: <55210001@hpcupt1.cup.hp.com> Date: 2 Aug 91 17:28:11 GMT Organization: Hewlett Packard, Cupertino Lines: 8 Has anyone seen the MJ-12 or Project Majestic text from Cooper here, or somewhere? A better question is... has anyone saved it? A friend who is not on the net wants a copy of something that I had seen on the net in alt.conspiracy about a year ago, about the Project Majestic and links to the FBI CIA etc. Anyone have any info? Please reply by E-mail if possible. Path: ns-mx!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!news.cs.indiana.edu!ariel.unm.edu!hydra.unm.edu!cn0gr8af From: cn0gr8af@hydra.unm.edu (Student Class Account) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: gravity waves Message-ID: <1991Aug03.202917.9887@ariel.unm.edu> Date: 3 Aug 91 20:29:17 GMT References: <1991Jul30.181423.6444@ariel.unm.edu> Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque Lines: 23 In article jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer) writes: >In article <1991Jul30.181423.6444@ariel.unm.edu> cn0gr8af@hydra.unm.edu (Student Class Account) writes: >> >>In review, let me say that gravity waves have been postulated to exist, but >>have never been observed. (A recent LandSat Photo of the Kuwait Oil fires >>is claimed to contain ripples showing gravity waves, but they do not fit any >>picture of gravity waves as proposed so far). In any case, the waves may > >Where did you hear this? It should've made news, but I never heard it. See the most recent National Geographic, the issue featuring a story about Kuwait. I believe I saw it in there. Also, it was on CNN about a week ago. Cheers, Rusty Don't believe in something just because someone says it is so; use your head. Ask for concrete proof. Only then will the true story behind UFO's (if they exist as beings from another planet) be revealed, just as the Burmuda Triangle was shown to be a hoax. Until then, these stories of "Greys", government coverup, etc. will remain pure speculation, relegated to the world of fantasy. Don't be Duped! Path: ns-mx!uunet!verifone.com!ed_l1 From: ed_l1@verifone.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal,talk.religion.newage Subject: Re: UFO Computer Network Message-ID: <1991Aug2.094606.2860@verifone.com> Date: 2 Aug 91 19:46:06 GMT References: <14384@goofy.Apple.COM> <414@vaccine.UUCP> Organization: VeriFone Inc., Honolulu HI Lines: 27 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:1505 sci.skeptic:13461 alt.paranormal:2374 talk.religion.newage:6345 > In article <414@vaccine.UUCP> warren@worlds.UUCP (Warren Burstein) writes: >>In article <14384@goofy.Apple.COM> showen@applelink.Apple.com (Don Showen) writes: >>> >>>THE PLElADlANS channeled lecture by Barbara J. Marciniak >> >>What sort of advanced civilization are these dudes if they have to >>get someone else to post to the net for them? If they can't afford >>a Telebit ChannelerBlazer, the hell with them. Well, if my own experience is any indication, the reliability of network connections decreases with any increase in distance between two points. Our own network here in Hawai`i is down about six percent of the time, and sometimes I have to get others to post for me. Now we're only about 5,000 miles away; how many _light years_ away are the Pleiadies? By my figuring, their network connection with us (allowing a factor five compensation to account for their "advanced" technology) will only be out of commission 20,000% of the time (give or take a few thousand percent). -- *************************************************************************** * Ed L'Esperance - P.O. Box 4635, Kane`ohe, Hawai`i 96744 U.S.A. * * Anthropologist, Writer, Editor, etc. -*- UUCP%"Ed_L1@VeriFone.Com" * * Disclaimer: Opinions Copyright 1991 Ed L'Esperance. HANDS OFF! * * Opinion #1: "Are you trying to tell me that these people are SERIOUS?" * *************************************************************************** Path: ns-mx!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ucla-cs!hana!michael From: michael@hana.cs.ucla.edu (michael gersten) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: A Solar Tour part#4 Message-ID: Date: 4 Aug 91 23:57:13 GMT References: <91214.073744JOHNFW@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> <2708@anaxagoras.ils.nwu.edu> Sender: usenet@cs.ucla.edu (Mr. News Himself) Organization: UCLA, Computer Science Department Lines: 6 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:1506 alt.paranormal:2376 sci.skeptic:13479 Nntp-Posting-Host: hana.cs.ucla.edu I think you guys who are jumping on this person are missing the point. This isn't "Our solar system in 1991"; this is more like "Our solar system in 2100", or sometime like that. In any event, I'm enjoying these. Especially the words of wisdom. Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!porthos.rutgers.edu!mcgrew From: mcgrew@porthos.rutgers.edu (Charles Mcgrew) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Question on significant dates Message-ID: Date: 4 Aug 91 21:31:20 GMT References: <1991Aug1.064035.4517@bilver.uucp> <1991Aug02.041752.10131@lynx.CS.ORST.EDU> <1991Aug2.223300.5918@rodan.acs.syr.edu> Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J. Lines: 21 ctdonath@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Carl T. Donath) writes: From time to time there were comments from aliens/spirits that significant things would be happening soon; ... Has anyone collected these "significant dates" so we can see how often they are professed? ... a good question; but the search list for this will be very long. UFO books and articles dating back at least to the 1950's include references to "the truth" coming out "sometime soon". Sometimes this comes from 'aliens', and sometimes from (often unnamed) "government sources". (These sources include alleged CIA contacts, and even President Carter, among others.) As a side comment, folks who *don't* want things known will tell 'outsiders' that the truth will come out soon -- if the truth is about to come out anyway, investigators will stop investigating, giving cover operations time to plug leaks, you see. Charles Path: ns-mx!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Keelynet File - The Kromery Converter/free Electricity Message-ID: <73216.289C686F@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 4 Aug 91 04:45:00 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - ParaNet(sm) A, Arvada CO Lines: 123 > From: harkcom@spinach.pa.yokogawa.co.jp (Alton Harkcom) > Date: 23 Jul 91 09:07:56 GMT > Organization: Yokogawa Electric Corporation, Tokyo, Japan > Message-ID: > Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,misc.headlines,sci.energy > =}If any Don's articles about machines or new concepts REALLY work, > =}it's worth having them talked about, debunked, or explained in > =}the cold light of public discussion. > > Since they have been debunked time and time again then throwing them > out for discussion is merely spreading misinformation. If Mr. Allen > really stayed up until 2am doing his homework instead of reading SF > novels then he would know such things... Unfortunately for you, Mr. Allen does do a fair share of homework. From what I have seen, he has posted materials to this net without attaching any of his personal feelings about them. I recall that he states that they are for information only. It is up to YOU what you do with it, excluding the childish flaming that has been going on here. Spreading "misinformation" implies that the person doing the spreading has knowledge of his/her activities, at least to a certain degree. This does not qualify Mr. Allen. > =}If some phenomena is discovered out of these activites all of the > =}dead ends the whole process becomes worthwhile. Don't let the > =}naysayers dismiss a person's scientific discipline without asking > =}for contrary research or proof. > > Before speaking out on science, one should learn what it is. Science > is not the offering of opinions with disproofs being sought to knock > them down. That is what religion is. Science deals with offering proofs > to > support a hypothesis in a framework. Without such proofs, the hypothesis > is meaningless. Since the UFO stuff being posted is opinions (which have > in most cases been refuted already), then it falls in the religion > category and is not science... May I suggest that you practice what you espouse? Here is a challenge to you. It is not hard. And, of course, with someone of your high intelligence, you should be able to qualify your statement above. Please cite references for your remark about "the UFO stuff being posted is opinions (which have in most cases been refuted already), then it falls in the religion category and is not science." I would love to see your argument that the material posted about the investigation of the Roswell crash is mere opinion stated by the authors. I would also like to see your argument for why you feel that the study of aerial anomalies falls into a religious category instead of science. In order for you to do this, you will have to produce irrefutable evidence to me that completely defies the physical evidence collected at landing sites, the physical effects that have been measured, both environmentally and upon witnesses and the many reports by scientists who have observed this phenomenon. This, I predict, will not be an easy task for even someone of your stature. Finally, please define your viewpoint on how the study of UFOs falls into a religious category. > =}To dismiss these discussions without a complete analysis of the > =}what is in question leaves us no better than those who condemned > =}scientists with dogma thoughout the ages. > > But to repeat past discussions which already completely analysized > and refuted the questions offered up is part of the structure which > creates the dogma which interferes with science and people's > understanding of it... Again, please cite your references where this issue has been settled to everyone's satisfaction. > =}If something is scientifically incorrect, fine post the reasons, > =}if you can't scientifically debunk what's being discussed save > =}your comments for your own amusement. > > If something is scientifically incorrect and has been expounded upon > in volume after volume of real scientific work then there is no need > for us to waste our time repeating such things to those who should > read it for themselves and those who shouldn't be spreading > misinformation... Each of your statements are examples of your ignorance or deliberate attempts to spread "misinformation." > =}I don't believe I've seen Don editorialize on any of the files he > =}cross posts and I've been amused by and enjoyed finding such a > =}concentration of of information from his sources *--Thanks Don--* > > Misinformation in many cases... Again, cite references. I just knew it. Your stating opinions again! :-) > =}Now we can move on to discuss the problems and reasons that pepetual > =}motion can't work and talk about the actual physics that's taking > =}place when it's claimed that it does, rail about the phychic > =}antigravity coils, pseudo science misinterpretations of the > =}physical universe, and debunk some UFO sightings -- > > Well since all of these things have been done repeatedly then I'll > leave the fun of repeating them again up to you. NO! I insist that you indulge us. > =}The quality and content of Don's postings can and should be talked > =}about but don't shoot the messenger or judge his intentions. > > The content of the posts can be talked about, but in most cases > shouldn't have been mentioned (wouldn't have been if the poster knew > anything about them). And since such misinformation is continually > being posted then I think that it is perfectly fair to bring up > questions as to the posters intelligence, qualifications, and > intentions. > Actually, such questions are infinitely more important and infinitely > less damaging than the questions the poster attempts to raise... By the same token, I haven't seen you post your qualifications to pontificate. Please consider this a kind request to furnish us with your background. I can't wait! Mike -- Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: What About The Last 44 Years ?read/new Message-ID: <73217.289C6873@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 4 Aug 91 04:48:00 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - ParaNet(sm) A, Arvada CO Lines: 56 > From: jdm@cadence.com (Joe Mastroianni) > Date: 30 Jul 91 16:43:24 GMT > Organization: Cadence Design Systems, Inc. > Message-ID: <1991Jul30.164324.22014@cadence.com> > Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors > > > I disagree, Don. UFOs are of this world. You're of this world. I'm of > this world. Everyone who has ever seen a UFO is someone of this world. > Whatever is happening to people is of this world. Unfortunately, nobody > in our world community of humans seems to have the slightest idea what > exactly is happening. > We have no explanation for these weird lights in the sky. We have no > explanation for people who have chunks of skin removed from their legs > in the middle of the night. We people haven't the faintest idea how to > reconcile stories of midnight abductions and needles put into the brain > with our normal lives. One day we're shopping for toilet-paper and Oreo > cookies, the next night we're spirited onto glowing spheres to be > operated > on by grey midgets with big almond eyes. What the hell is this stuff? > What can you say to someone who tells you he was stopped by a UFO on > the > way home from the 7-Eleven? You can start by saying he's nuts. But then, > what do you say to the hundreds of thousands of people all over the > world > who suddenly get brave enough to tell you their bizzare stories. Is > everyone > nuts? If everyone is nuts, then nuts is normal, by the definition of > "normal". > > Anyway, if you start trying to describe these events in terms easily > understandable by occult hobbiests, then you are selling the whole thing > short. Nobody knows if these events are caused by beings from the Crab > Nebula or renegade accountants from Burma. The truth is simply: Nobody > knows. > > At this late point in our history as a civilization, I think we all > can > admit the possiblity of the existence of information and events we have > yet to discover. Whatever this phenomenon is, it isnt something we have > explained yet. Most importantly, we may not be able to explain it in > terms > common to our existing pool of scientific knowlege and experience as > humans. > If this is true, giving this thing a name simply detracts from its true > nature. > I applaud your open-mindedness. Everyone should read this again. Mike -- Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: 6-10 Inch Disk [was Info: Recent Mufon Conference Recap - Chicago] Message-ID: <73219.289C6877@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 4 Aug 91 04:56:00 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - ParaNet(sm) A, Arvada CO Lines: 31 > From: jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer) > Date: 31 Jul 91 03:59:59 GMT > Organization: The Search For TERRESTRIAL Intelligence > Message-ID: > Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors > T. T. Brown reportedly flew small disks, but only tethered to a pole > (because the tether was also the power cable!) Of course, this is > ignoring > the possibility that the disk in question could have had propellors, as > I > haven't seen the film and I don't know if they would be discernable > anyway. > > OK all you aerospace people: Could you build a flying disk with > propellors > that would actually fly controllably? Just as an aside, Don Ecker now possesses a remote controlled flying disk. It is powered by gasoline, I believe. I will get more information from Don on this and let you know. Some guy in Redlands, CA is producing them. Mike -- Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Ai-trad Message-ID: <73220.289C6879@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 4 Aug 91 18:35:00 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - ParaNet(sm) A, Arvada CO Lines: 24 * Forwarded from "Ask UFO Magazine" * Originally from Don Ecker * Originally dated 07-31-91 14:53 Jim: Last year I received the "3-STAR" report from Ai-Trad, and immediatly called them up to get the "real deal". I spoke to the front guy, Kim Mikulas I think (I do not have his card in front of me.) I questioned them, and requested to speak to either the interviewer or the General, but was told that until I was "checked out" they did not want to speak to me. I told them fine, check me out and call me, but I never heard from them again. CAVEAT EMPTOR Don -- Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Keelynet File, Lazar, Don't Be Duped Message-ID: <73218.289C6875@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 4 Aug 91 04:51:00 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - ParaNet(sm) A, Arvada CO Lines: 23 > From: cn0gr8af@hydra.unm.edu (Student Class Account) > Date: 30 Jul 91 18:14:23 GMT > Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque > Message-ID: <1991Jul30.181423.6444@ariel.unm.edu> > Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Regarding your posting about alleged gravity waves being observed in the satellite photos over Kuwait, could you please expound on this a little more? I would really appreciate it. BTW, I think you are right on target re: Lazar. There were just too many strange things associated with that guy. However, there were other things that made us wonder about his veracity and to what extent he may have been himself "duped." Mike -- Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!uwm.edu!news.bbn.com!nic!mars.caps.maine.edu!maine.maine.edu!io10081 From: IO10081@MAINE.MAINE.EDU (The Xanadian) Newsgroups: misc.misc,alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal Subject: Full-Aspect Survey on Human Personality Message-ID: <91217.084753IO10081@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> Date: 5 Aug 91 12:47:53 GMT Organization: University of Maine System Lines: 72 Supersedes: <91217.084451IO10081@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> Xref: ns-mx misc.misc:4970 alt.alien.visitors:1513 alt.paranormal:2379 FULL-ASPECT SURVEY This is a survey of all aspects (possible) of the personality of mankind--namely physical, mental and spiritual. It is something that I wish to use for my psych class coming up.. That, and it is also for my curiosity. Questions with a star (*) are optional. All others, please answer. Answer as truthfully as possible, please. 1. Y/N Do you think of yourself as a leader? 2. Y/N Are you satisfied with our government? (please name your govt) 3. Y/N Do you have a religion? Or, do you believe that there is a spirit or soul in humankind (ie. each man & woman)? 3a. Y/N Do you believe in (a/some) God(s)? 3a. If yes, please name religion/belief 3b* Who was Jesus? 4. Y/N Do you consider yourself in reasonably good shape? 4a. On a scale of 1 - 10... how do you rate your fitness? 5. Name your top 10 favorite songs. (only 2 if you'd like, but at least 2) If you don't listen to music, put -None-. 6. Y/N Do you believe that there are other intelligent beings out in space? 7* Y/N Have you heard of xanadu? 7a* If YES, then what is/was it? 8. Y/N Assume you are in a company or firm. Would you be upset if someone was appointed a position above you that you wanted, even though he/she was totally qualified? 9. Y/N Would you ever want to travel in space? 9a. Y/N Inhabit another planet? 9b. If YES on both, then how would you want to see the leadership set up, or, what kind of government would you like to see? 9c. Would you like to head this government? (*) Why? 10. How old are you? 11* Y/N Are you married? Divorced? Single? Ect..... 12. What type of job do you hold (if you hold one)? 13. Y/N Are you superstitious? (uncanny that this question came up here, isn't it???) 14. Y/N Do you believe in ghosts? 15* Y/N Are you able to vote? 15a* Y/N Do you vote? Any particular branch or locale of govt? 16. If there were a real schnook in the government, what would you do about him/her? (schnook-- one who appears to be doing nothing for the people and everything for himself/herself) 17. What was your favorite year? (*) Why? That's it for now. More questions may arise in THE SEQUEL-- SURVEY II! (BTW-- 18. Y/N Do you think sequels are usually not as good as the original?) All information will be kept confidential. If there are any addition al notes, please feel free to tack them on at the END. Thank you and good night/day. ------------------------ This is a repost, since some changes had to be made---particularly on q#1 and q#8. BTW... Thank you Sandy for the help. If anyone else has any suggestions please let me know! Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!news.bbn.com!hsdndev!dartvax!mars.caps.maine.edu!maine.maine.edu!io10081 From: IO10081@MAINE.MAINE.EDU (The Xanadian) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: A Way Out Of Here. Message-ID: <91217.091132IO10081@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> Date: 5 Aug 91 13:11:32 GMT Organization: University of Maine System Lines: 6 Supersedes: <91213.181511IO10081@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> I have not seen the original article. Could someone email/repost it to/for me? BTW... Why would someone want to leave this woOOonderful planet of ours? Path: ns-mx!uunet!vicorp!mc From: mc@vicorp.com (Mark Charalambous) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Thanks to Rob Trevelyan Keywords: Crop Circles Message-ID: <1991Aug5.143455.669@vicorp.com> Date: 5 Aug 91 14:34:55 GMT Reply-To: mc@vicorp.UUCP (Mark Charalambous) Organization: V. I. Corporation, Amherst, Massachusetts Lines: 26 Just wanted to publicly thank Robert Trevelyan for his reporting on the current crop circles, and encourage him further. Thanks, Rob! Also, lately there seems to be a disturbing trend in this news group. There seems to be more and more rubbish posted here, and I'm afraid that this will discourage the serious posters from using this group. Can we cut down on the garbage, please? The best response to obviously stupid news posts is to simply ignore them and hope that they will go away. Thanks for your time, --Mark #################### All relevant disclaimers apply ##################### Mark Charalambous VI Corporation (413) 586-4144 mc@vicorp.com || uunet!vicorp!mc -- #################### All relevant disclaimers apply ##################### Mark Charalambous VI Corporation (413) 586-6207 (413) 586-4144 mc@vicorp.com || uunet!vicorp!mc Path: ns-mx!uunet!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!linac!att!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!porthos.rutgers.edu!mcgrew From: mcgrew@porthos.rutgers.edu (Charles Mcgrew) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ha! Keywords: Ha! Message-ID: Date: 5 Aug 91 13:46:23 GMT References: <1991Aug03.014554.1086@disk.uucp> Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J. Lines: 76 Hi, Just a few comments: to call you anti-religion is perhaps not going too far. However, it is perhaps ingenuous to say: We have to look through the myth, and realize that the same voice has been muffled all through our history! If you are only willing to open your eyes, you will see. There is a new breed in the young people today. A select few have been able to realize that we have to look at things truly objectively. [etc] ... every generation grows up calling its predecessors (and in your case, most of its peers) idiots. Its just something young people do. I did it, too. I was cynical, and "not going to be fooled". Then I discovered that things are significantly more complex than I thought, and that (some of) my predecessors were extremely smart -- smarter than me, in fact. So, I decided to study some more. I've been doing that ever since. (I'm still cynical, in some ways, but I don't scream at people during arguments any more.) I beleive that the human mind is capable of anything, even without tools and science, yet on the other hand I have a love for science and creation. I beleive science can explain everything, if we make science fit the truth, not bend the truth to fit science. Naturally. Scientists do the latter, politicians do the former. (And lets not even talk about political scientists! :-) We have to be ready to evolve. For a while now humans have been devolving. Our machines and medicine and some of our technology have just made it more difficult to realize our potential. ... I don't agree. Neither, I'd say, would people who can use recent inventions to do things they couldn't possibly do -- quadraplegics and amputees, for a start. Technology has caused massive political changes within this country and many others -- consider how long the Vietnam war would have gone on without TV, for one. Technology has helps society to evolve, and to do it significantly faster than in years past. (If you don't like the way its evolving, well, that's a different story.) Our religion has taught us to mourn death, so we develop medicine to stop people from dying. Belief has made us weak. ... um, quite the opposite. Religions in general teach that death is *not* permanent; that we "go to a better place"; that "everlasting life" is ours; or even that we return to earth with another chance. How anti-death can you get? Religion is a balm against the grief of loss. The thought that I will *never* see someone I know again, *never* get to talk with them again, *never* see them smile again is incredibly depressing. Religion teaches hope. (BTW, I am not a particularly religious person -- just ask my parents, who gave up trying to get me to go to church when I was 13...) Religions also are a comfort to the oppressed and the dirt-poor that their lives are not for nothing, that better things are ahead. The antichrist, I suggest, is change. Radical, permanent change that religion is afraid of. ... no. Religions are by nature conservative organizations, to be sure. But they do change -- if nothing else, they fragment, and subsets of belief go their own way (otherwise, we'd all still be Zoroastrians!) Radical, permanent change is what the "power elite" are afraid of -- the bankers, the politicians, etc. -- the people who have a personal stake in the 'way things are'. Religions tend to weather change fairly well; though the older 'organized religions' may slowly wither for a number of reasons. ... Oh, by the way, what IS this "new reality", anyway? You seem to spend all your time complaining that almost all of us (including myself, I'd guess) are stupid; what is the real truth, then? Charles Path: ns-mx!uunet!cadence!jdm From: jdm@cadence.com (Joe Mastroianni) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Question on significant dates Message-ID: <1991Aug5.155345.9075@cadence.com> Date: 5 Aug 91 15:53:45 GMT References: <1991Aug02.041752.10131@lynx.CS.ORST.EDU> <1991Aug2.223300.5918@rodan.acs.syr.edu> Sender: Joe Mastroianni Organization: Cadence Design Systems, Inc. Lines: 44 In article mcgrew@porthos.rutgers.edu (Charles Mcgrew) writes: > > ctdonath@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Carl T. Donath) writes: > > From time to time there were comments from aliens/spirits that > significant things would be happening soon; ... Has anyone > collected these "significant dates" so we can see how often > they are professed? > >... a good question; but the search list for this will be very long. >UFO books and articles dating back at least to the 1950's include >references to "the truth" coming out "sometime soon". Sometimes this >comes from 'aliens', and sometimes from (often unnamed) "government >sources". (These sources include alleged CIA contacts, and even >President Carter, among others.) > [stuff edited] For what it's worth: Whitley Strieber, author of the best selling Close Encounter book "Communion", receives about 50 to 70 letters per day from people who claim to have had UFO experiences. Whitley says that since April of this year, the subject matter of those letters has shifted from stories about encounters in the past, to stories about encounters in the present. Whitley himself believes that something is going to happen soon, and he thinks that the correspondance validates his suspicion. He does not define "soon" or the "something" that he expects to happen. The source of this information is a letter published by Mr. Strieber that I happened to see. For what its worth.....now get back to work. Joe -- Joe Mastroianni AKA: AA6YD AA6YD @ N6LDL.#NOCAL.CA.USA.NA Cadence Design Systems Santa Clara Ca. "Up the airy mountain;down the rushy glen; we jdm@cadence.com daren't go a hunting; for fear of little men " Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!hp4nl!tuegate.tue.nl!rc6.urc.tue.nl!rw7.urc.tue.nl!wsadjw From: wsadjw@rw7.urc.tue.nl (Jan Willem Nienhuys) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal Subject: Re: Answer to how life got started on Earth. Message-ID: <773@rc6.urc.tue.nl> Date: 5 Aug 91 16:50:48 GMT References: <1991Jul12.205856.26896@bony1.bony.com> <1991Aug3.170949.19919@hobbes.kzoo.edu> <1991Aug5.084242.3359@compuram.bbt.se> Sender: news@rc6.urc.tue.nl Reply-To: wsadjw@urc.tue.nl Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors Organization: Eindhoven University of Technology, The Netherlands Lines: 14 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:1518 sci.skeptic:13499 alt.paranormal:2381 In article <1991Aug5.084242.3359@compuram.bbt.se> pgd@compuram.bbt.se writes: >available. But there is also a lot of evidence which does not fit the >evolution theory. Such as? J.W. Nienhuys, Research Group Discrete Mathematics Dept. of Mathematics and Computing Science Eindhoven University of Technology P.O. BOX 513, 5600 MB Eindhoven The Netherlands e-mail: wsadjw@urc.tue.nl Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!spool.mu.edu!snorkelwacker.mit.edu!stanford.edu!mcnc!rock!dg-rtp!webo!dg-webo!tom From: tom@kether.webo.dg.com (Tom Sullivan) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,misc.headlines,sci.energy Subject: Re: File - THE GENESIS FACTOR - Warren York intro / George Merkl Message-ID: Date: 23 Jul 91 16:05:00 GMT References: <1991Jul17.233944.14200@bilver.uucp> Sender: usenet@webo.dg.com (Usenet Administration) Organization: NSDD, Data General Corp. Lines: 1 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:1519 alt.conspiracy:6529 misc.headlines:17291 sci.energy:5348 In-Reply-To: dona@bilver.uucp's message of 17 Jul 91 23:39:44 GMT Where's the address for further info, referenced in the article? Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!linac!convex!swarren From: swarren@convex.com (Steve Warren) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: gravity waves Message-ID: <1991Aug05.195333.8309@convex.com> Date: 5 Aug 91 19:53:33 GMT References: <1991Jul30.181423.6444@ariel.unm.edu> Sender: usenet@convex.com (news access account) Organization: CONVEX Computer Corporation, Richardson, Tx., USA Lines: 66 Nntp-Posting-Host: neptune.convex.com In article <1991Jul30.181423.6444@ariel.unm.edu> cn0gr8af@hydra.unm.edu (Student Class Account) writes: [...long discussion extolling the virtues of skepticism deleted...] >Second, look at the paper presented for the "public good". The entire basis >for his generator is based on a situation which is completely UNTRUE. In fact, >it violates one of Maxwell's equations, and does not work experimentally. The >fact that it does not work experimentally puzzled physicists from the early >1800's until around 1880. It was easily explained after Faraday's Law was >discovered. The basic idea is that a disk is placed in a magnetic field, >oriented so that the field lines are perpendicular to the surface of the >conducting disk. It is then claimed that if the disk is spun, a potential >will develop between the center of the disk and the outside edge. This is >just plain WRONG. While it is true that if a potential is placed across >the distance from the center to the outer edge, a current will flow, and >the disk will spin, the converse is not true. Only in the case of a varying >magnetic field can a potential develop. (Faraday's Law: Curl of E = -dB/dt). >This is high school physics! (Well, maybe first year college level). >It is claimed that the potential that develops is the same as when the disk >is attached to the magnet and spun. I will give him that, but only in that >they are both identically ZERO. [...] >Rusty > >PS: mail at jewett@mcnc.org or cn0gr8af@cirt.unm.edu Rusty, your prior argument would carry more weight if you did not digress into subjects with which you are not familiar. In fact this device works exactly as advertised, and is normally a subject of introductory texts on electromagnetics. Check page 274 of "Field and Wave Electromagnetics" by David K. Cheng. It is called the Faraday disk generator. The electrons in the disk will see the Lorentz force q(E + vXB) (X is the cross operator; v is the velocity vector). As lines of magnetic flux are cut by the infinitesimally thin conductors connecting the edge of the disk to its center, the electrons in the conductors will be driven by this electromotive force, with the result being a potential between the center and the edge. This device is typically used in industrial cloth manufacturing where precision tension control is needed to feed threads into weaving machines. The spools are mounted on conductive plates and are spun next to a large magnet. The thread is fed at a constant velocity, so changing the distance to the magnet yields precise control over the thread tension. You provide so much false detail in your refutation of this device that I have to wonder if you just made it all up as you went along. On the other hand, you can hardly call yourself a skeptic if you heard all this poppycock from someone else, and then parroted it here without even bothering to check some technical references. BTW - normally I wouldn't flame you for making a mistake like this. But, as you yourself stated, "This is high school physics!" You can reach me by email at swarren@convex.com -- _. --Steve ._||__ Warren v\ *| V Path: ns-mx!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!dora!etuggle From: etuggle@auc.trw.com (Eddie Tuggle) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Question on significant dates Message-ID: <1991Aug5.190220.16288@auc.trw.com> Date: 5 Aug 91 19:02:20 GMT References: <1991Aug02.041752.10131@lynx.CS.ORST.EDU> <1991Aug2.223300.5918@rodan.acs.syr.edu> <1991Aug5.155345.9075@cadence.com> Reply-To: etuggle@dora.UUCP (Eddie Tuggle) Organization: TRW Denver Operations Lines: 8 Is Whitley Strieber generaly considered to be an athority, reliable? I have read Communion and found it quite interesting. -- Eddie D. Tuggle, etuggle@dora.auc.trw.com | "There is nothing either good or TRW Denver Operations | bad, but thinking makes it so." 16201 Centretech Pky / Aurora, CO 80011 | -- SHAKESPEARE Voice: 303.360.4001 FAX: 303.360.4133 | Path: ns-mx!uunet!cadence!jdm From: jdm@cadence.com (Joe Mastroianni) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ha! Keywords: Ha! Message-ID: <1991Aug5.234204.19257@cadence.com> Date: 5 Aug 91 23:42:04 GMT References: <1991Aug03.014554.1086@disk.uucp> Sender: Joe Mastroianni Organization: Cadence Design Systems, Inc. Lines: 41 In article <1991Aug03.014554.1086@disk.uucp> unknown@disk.uucp (unknown) writes: > >I beleive the earth has been visited by other intelligent races... But >that's an OPINION. Here's another opinion: > For as many years as there have been human beings, there has been some >form or religion. All these religions can be summed up in one phrase, >"Safety in Numbers".. We were afraid of change, afraid of the unknown. >People bonded together to hide from the reality of the unknown. Elaborate >myths were built up by the most scared, the preachers and leaders. They >wove the tales of pixies and gnomes, elementals, angels, demons... Look >at it this way: If you had seen aliens, or something totally strange to >you, you'd probably be [ stuff edited] My feeling about this "visitation" phenomenon, both past and present, is this: We must treat this like a courtroom battle. There are lawyers on either side of the issue who make extremely persuasive arguments for and against the "visitation" theory. You, decide the outcome yourself. The "truth" is irrelevant. The "truth" may be completely unknowable. At any rate, nobody knows the truth. The evidence presented to you as a juror is almost completely subjective and circumstantial. The evidence is inconclusive. So, what is real? What is the "truth"? Is he guilty or not? In the courtroom, the minds of the twelve define reality. Each of us has made up his/her own mind. That defines the reality of this situation. Unfortunately, like the jury in a difficult court case, we may very well have decided wrong. If we knew the "truth", there would be no courtrooms and no discussion. C'est la vie. Joe -- Joe Mastroianni AKA: AA6YD AA6YD @ N6LDL.#NOCAL.CA.USA.NA Cadence Design Systems Santa Clara Ca. "Up the airy mountain;down the rushy glen; we jdm@cadence.com daren't go a hunting; for fear of little men " Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!ucla-cs!ucla-ma!redwood!troly From: troly@redwood.math.ucla.edu (Bret Jolly) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Keelynet File, Lazar, Don't Be Duped Message-ID: <1991Aug5.113655.350@math.ucla.edu> Date: 5 Aug 91 11:36:55 GMT References: <73218.289C6875@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Sender: news@math.ucla.edu Reply-To: troly@math.ucla.edu (Bret Jolly) Organization: LA Platygaean Society Lines: 14 In article <73218.289C6875@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) writes: >Regarding your posting about alleged gravity waves being observed in the >satellite photos over Kuwait, could you please expound on this a little more? >I would really appreciate it. I am not the poster referred to here, but nothing is strange about this claim. Gravity waves are seen all the time. *Gravitational* waves are another thing altogether. "In your heart, you know it's flat." ? Bret Jolly (Bo'-ret Tro Ly) Mathemagus LA Platygaean Society . Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!unix.cis.pitt.edu!dsinc!bagate!cbmvax!amix!vanth!jms From: jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Crop Circles in Wiltshire Message-ID: Date: 5 Aug 91 15:53:32 GMT References: <1991Aug02.160751.21978@aixssc.ibm.co.uk> Organization: The Search For TERRESTRIAL Intelligence Lines: 20 In article <1991Aug02.160751.21978@aixssc.ibm.co.uk> rob@aixssc.ibm.co.uk (Robert Trevelyan) writes: > >A keen circles watcher had been cropwatching with two friends at >Beckhampton at about midnight when they had seen a pulsing light >moving silently across the sky. During the course of the next hour >they saw five more such objects, some white and some pulsing green, >red and white. All were silent though at times they seemed >comparatively close to where they stood. At one time a dark object >flew swiftly and silently overhead, blotting out the stars. >The three were quite frightened by this strange display, and >likened what they'd seen to a sequence from "Close Encounters of >the Third Kind". Some of their sightings were in the direction Weren't the sequences in CETK based on the Bentwaters (Rendlesham) case? -- * From the disk of: | jms@vanth.uucp | "Let's become Jim Shaffer, Jr. | amix.commodore.com!vanth!jms | alive again." 37 Brook Street | uunet!cbmvax!amix!vanth!jms | Montgomery, PA 17752 | 72750.2335@compuserve.com | --Yes Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!samsung!munnari.oz.au!ariel!ucsvc.ucs.unimelb.edu.au!luga!latcs1!ipc1.lat.oz.au!stephens From: stephens@ipc1.lat.oz.au (Philip J Stephens) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Answer to how life got started on Earth. Message-ID: <1991Aug6.001828.26671@latcs1.lat.oz.au> Date: 6 Aug 91 00:18:28 GMT References: <1991Aug3.170949.19919@hobbes.kzoo.edu> <1991Aug5.084242.3359@compuram.bbt.se> <773@rc6.urc.tue.nl> Sender: news@latcs1.lat.oz.au Organization: Comp Sci, La Trobe Uni, Australia Lines: 26 Nntp-Posting-Host: ipc1.lat.oz.au In article <773@rc6.urc.tue.nl> wsadjw@urc.tue.nl writes: >In article <1991Aug5.084242.3359@compuram.bbt.se> pgd@compuram.bbt.se writes: >>But there is also a lot of evidence which does not fit the >>evolution theory. > >Such as? Well, try giving a convincing set of transitionary forms from the reptile lung to the avian lung for starters. And how about a convincing set of forms from the reptile scales to the avian feather. Actually, why don't you just give us all the necessary transitionary forms from every "known ancestor" to every species today. That would be convincing enough for me. And whilst you're at it, throw in an explanation for why the percentage difference between the DNA of a given reptile and *all* mammals is the same, regardless of the fact that different mammals should evolve at different rates. Finally, give us the latest estimate on how probable it was for the first replicating molecule to evolve in a single step. <\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/><\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\> < Philip J. Stephens >< "Many views yield the truth." > < Hons. student, Computer Science >< "Therefore, be not alone." > < La Trobe University, Melbourne >< - Prime Song of the viggies, from > < AUSTRALIA >< THE ENGIMA SCORE by Sheri S Tepper > Path: ns-mx!uunet!math.fu-berlin.de!tmpmbx!netmbx!mds From: mds@netmbx.UUCP (Michael Such) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Thanks to Rob Trevelyan Keywords: Crop Circles Message-ID: <2530@netmbx.UUCP> Date: 6 Aug 91 07:44:04 GMT References: <1991Aug5.143455.669@vicorp.com> Organization: netmbx, Berlin, Germany Lines: 34 In article <1991Aug5.143455.669@vicorp.com> mc@vicorp.UUCP (Mark Charalambous) writes: > >Also, lately there seems to be a disturbing trend in this news group. >There seems to be more and more rubbish posted here, and I'm afraid >that this will discourage the serious posters from using this group. > >Can we cut down on the garbage, please? The best response to obviously >stupid news posts is to simply ignore them and hope that they will >go away. I agree totally with this! Most of the 'garbabe' in this group is comes from JOHNF with his stuff about pyramids and solar system travels. or rather, the replies and flames it provokes (including me!) I really believe he's making fun and we're all falling for his provocation.. So why don't we all let him post and just don't respond, that'll cut down a lot of the 'garbage'. Also if you want to flame me for this post why don't you send it e-mail so that it doesn't fill up the group. (Everything is of course IMHO) Mike -- Mike Such NETMBX - Berlin, Germany Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!ukc!mrccrc!sgamble From: sgamble@crc.ac.uk (Steve Gamble x3293) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: 6-10 Inch Disk [was Info: Recent Mufon Conference Recap - Chicago] Message-ID: <859@carbon.crc.ac.uk> Date: 6 Aug 91 10:12:22 GMT References: <73219.289C6877@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Organization: MRC Human Genome Mapping Project Resource Centre, Harrow, U.K. Lines: 25 In article <73219.289C6877@paranet.FIDONET.ORG>, Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) writes: > > > From: jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer) [stuff deleted] > > the possibility that the disk in question could have had propellors, as > > I > > haven't seen the film and I don't know if they would be discernable > > anyway. > > I was at the MUFON Conference, this video was very interesting. About three minutes of the total (much longer) video were shown. The film appeared to show a small whitish spherical object. As far as I could see there were no propellors, but bear in mind that the film was taken from at least a couple of hundred yards with a domestic camcorder. STEVE. -- (Disclaimer: These are not my employer's opinions, they may not even be mine!) Steve Gamble, Computing Services, Clinical Research Centre, Watford Road, Harrow, Middlesex, HA1 3UJ, UK. Phone: 081 869 3293 JANET: s.gamble@uk.ac.crc INTERNET: s.gamble@crc.ac.uk Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!ukc!mrccrc!sgamble From: sgamble@crc.ac.uk (Steve Gamble x3293) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Question on significant dates Summary: How accurate are reported dates?? Message-ID: <860@carbon.crc.ac.uk> Date: 6 Aug 91 10:23:30 GMT References: <1991Aug1.064035.4517@bilver.uucp> Organization: MRC Human Genome Mapping Project Resource Centre, Harrow, U.K. Lines: 34 In article , mcgrew@porthos.rutgers.edu (Charles Mcgrew) writes: > > ctdonath@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Carl T. Donath) writes: > > From time to time there were comments from aliens/spirits that > significant things would be happening soon; ... Has anyone > collected these "significant dates" so we can see how often > they are professed? > > ... a good question; but the search list for this will be very long. > UFO books and articles dating back at least to the 1950's include > references to "the truth" coming out "sometime soon". Sometimes this [stuff deleted] > Charles One problem you would have with this is how accurate are the writers of the books reporting what the witnesses actually state? In her book 'Abduction' Jenny Randles mentions, I believe, several times that witnesses stating that 'something' will happen in 1992. I know of at least one case where the witness states that they have never said anything special will happen in 1992. J.R. tends to be one of the more level headed authors, so if she can make a mistake what chance do you have if you (have to) rely on more sensationilist authors????? STEVE. -- (Disclaimer: These are not my employer's opinions, they may not even be mine!) Steve Gamble, Computing Services, Clinical Research Centre, Watford Road, Harrow, Middlesex, HA1 3UJ, UK. Phone: 081 869 3293 JANET: s.gamble@uk.ac.crc INTERNET: s.gamble@crc.ac.uk Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!unido!mpirbn!p515dfi From: p515dfi@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (Daniel Fischer) Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Alien spacecraft to be displayed? [Forwarded from sci.astro] Message-ID: <2172@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de> Date: 6 Aug 91 11:15:42 GMT Reply-To: p515dfi@mpirbn.UUCP (Daniel Fischer) Organization: Max-Planck-Institut fuer Radioastronomie, Bonn Lines: 80 Xref: ns-mx sci.skeptic:13517 misc.headlines:17298 alt.alien.visitors:1529 From: huw@spls5.ccs.mt.nec.co.jp (Huw Jonathan Rogers) Newsgroups: sci.astro Subject: Aliens from outer space... Message-ID: <9108050414.AA08074@spls5.ccs.mt.nec.co.jp> Date: 5 Aug 91 04:14:01 GMT Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU Organization: Murder Inc. I recently heard a Radio One program in the UK that contained an interview with a leading proponent of the popular "US Government has aliens locked up and is experimenting with their spaceplanes" conspiracy theory. However this particular individual sounded very reasonable, did not make any outrageous claims, and further had some interesting facts to disclose. In particular he mentioned several verifiable facts which I would like some followup on: Rockwell International and NASA were planning a *massive* joint exhibition of space exploration this year (1991) but it was delayed inexplicably until 1992. In the *official* prospectus for this exhibition, one of the exhibits was clearly stated to be "an extraterrestrial space craft". When asked about this by various individuals, all enquiries were referred by NASA to the US DoD. An unnamed Pentagon spokesman speaking off the record is meant to have indicated that they "had a number of such vehicles to choose from..." The Pentagon also held a press conference to deal with press inquiries on this matter - and refused to answer any questions. In fact reporters later said that the Pentagon had asked most of the questions, and they all pertained to "what would be the public reaction if...". The guy on the radio program referred extensively to two NASA consultant engineers who claimed to have worked on alien spacecraft studying propulsion systems for NASA - both had high level security clearance in the States, were verifiably employed by NASA as senior consultant engineers, and both were phoned in the States by the station in a followup program (which I missed) the next day. The followup program incidentally was only scheduled at the last minute due to record phone calls from the public swamping Radio 1's 64 line switchboard... He also claimed that a NSA official had told him off the record that the NSA was in "electronic communication" with at least eight extraterrestrial sources of intelligent communication... He claimed that he possessed a recording of a telephone conversation with an ex deputy director of the CIA (Casey's deputy as I recall), who said that they (the CIA) had possession of quite a few alien artefacts, including bodies, spacecraft and other miscellaneous bits and pieces. He also verified on tape claims that several alien landings at US AFBs had occured in the past, and in some cases were common knowledge amongst certain groups of AFB personnel: "Hear what came in this morning, Joe?"... Various farmers in a certain area of the US (I forget the state that was mentioned) regularly discovered bloodless (drained) cattle in various stages of dismemberment in the early morning. These animals had had certain glands, body parts, or body fluids surgically removed with a precision beyond the capabilities of all but the most advanced surgical laboratories. This problem was so bad that in one place a farmer was in danger of going bust due to loss of cattle. One explanation advanced was that aliens were using these cattle as a convenient source of various rare chemicals/tissues. The technology in the latest black projects that have progressed to flight hardware - Aurora, Strike, etc. - seems to be well beyond the capabilities of current commercial (defense/aerospace) technology. In particular ablative control surfaces and reliable flight control at speeds in excess of Mach 4 are characteristics of such craft, sightings of which are widespread in Nevada along with reliable evidence (supersonic boom disruption?) of such speeds. Any comments/hard info. on any of these assertions would be much appreciated - please post as I am sure others are interested too. -Huw [ H.J.Rogers INTERNET: huw@ccs.mt.nec.co.jp ] [ ,_, JANET: huw%ccs.mt.nec.co.jp@uk.ac.nsfnet-relay ] [ :-(_)-o "Either code it for speed, or don't code it at all." ] [ _} {_ "I'll be back..." ] [ THIS EMAIL ADDRESS ONLY VALID UNTIL 12/9/1991 ] Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!crdgw1!ge-dab!tarpit!bilver!dona From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Help! Message-ID: <1991Aug5.235048.7116@bilver.uucp> Date: 5 Aug 91 23:50:48 GMT References: <1991Aug1.064035.4517@bilver.uucp> <1991Aug02.041752.10131@lynx.CS.ORST.EDU> Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL Lines: 28 In article <1991Aug02.041752.10131@lynx.CS.ORST.EDU> woodc@jacobs.CS.ORST.EDU (Major Havok) writes: > >Attention DON ALLEN: > I hate to resort to posting personal messages on a news group, but I can >not get mail delivered to you for some reason. If you see this posting then >please respond. Did you receive my last posting to you and Jim Shaffer as >well? (Or all me messages/postings being intercepted by some secret >government agency that wants to prevent me from obtaining information??) >Please, please, PLEASE respond if you see this. > >-- Yes, Chris, I did get your last message. It must be that this article and mail routing is taking longer than usual to wend it's way through the NSA :-) Try mailing me again..if it bounces, try a re-send..some people have had to resend a few times (same here with me) ,but be persistent. Once the mail _does_ get through, it tends to stay that way. Don -- -* Don Allen *- InterNet: dona@bilver.UUCP // Amiga..for the best of us. USnail: 1818G Landing Dr, Sanford Fl 32771 \X/ Why use anything else? :-) UUCP: ..uunet!tarpit!bilver!vicstoy!dona 0110 0110 0110 Just say NO! Illuminati < MJ-12|Greys|TLC|CFR|FED|Bilderbergs > UN = "New World Order" Path: ns-mx!uunet!stanford.edu!unixhub!slacvm!johnfw From: JOHNFW@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal,sci.skeptic Subject: Answers to questains. Message-ID: <91218.074352JOHNFW@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> Date: 6 Aug 91 15:43:52 GMT Organization: Stanford Linear Accelerator Center Lines: 11 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:1531 alt.paranormal:2390 sci.skeptic:13522 Goodmorning everyone. It might be best if I answer a few questains that has been put forth before going further. Someone ask what is a space tape? A space tape is an audio recording on a message from a space person. In the case of the ones I was talking about it was from beings that are on a higher vibrational frequency than us and not is the physical form. I must go but will leave you with this saying; May you live all the days of your life. Standard Disclaimer. John. Path: ns-mx!uunet!cadence!jdm From: jdm@cadence.com (Joe Mastroianni) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Question on significant dates Message-ID: <1991Aug6.142130.3540@cadence.com> Date: 6 Aug 91 14:21:30 GMT References: <1991Aug5.155345.9075@cadence.com> <1991Aug5.190220.16288@auc.trw.com> Sender: Joe Mastroianni Organization: Cadence Design Systems, Inc. Lines: 21 In article <1991Aug5.190220.16288@auc.trw.com> etuggle@dora.UUCP (Eddie Tuggle) writes: >Is Whitley Strieber generaly considered to be an athority, reliable? I have read Communion >and found it quite interesting. > I wouldn't personally consider Mr. Strieber to be an authority. He is simply the highest paid. Im not sure what "reliable" means. If it means, "should we believe what he says", then , certainly not. I only posted the prior note to let you know what some visible people are saying on the question of significant dates. Happy trails. Joe -- Joe Mastroianni AKA: AA6YD AA6YD @ N6LDL.#NOCAL.CA.USA.NA Cadence Design Systems Santa Clara Ca. "Up the airy mountain;down the rushy glen; we jdm@cadence.com daren't go a hunting; for fear of little men " Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!ukc!edcastle!helium!cam From: cam@aifh.ed.ac.uk (Chris Malcolm) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Answer to how life got started on Earth. Message-ID: <1991Aug6.142140.27984@aifh.ed.ac.uk> Date: 6 Aug 91 14:21:40 GMT References: <1991Aug3.170949.19919@hobbes.kzoo.edu> <1991Aug5.084242.3359@compuram.bbt.se> <773@rc6.urc.tue.nl> <1991Aug6.001828.26671@latcs1.lat.oz.au> Reply-To: cam@aifh.ed.ac.uk (Chris Malcolm) Organization: Dept AI, Edinburgh University, Scotland Lines: 52 In article <1991Aug6.001828.26671@latcs1.lat.oz.au> stephens@ipc1.lat.oz.au (Philip J Stephens) writes: >In article <773@rc6.urc.tue.nl> wsadjw@urc.tue.nl writes: >>In article <1991Aug5.084242.3359@compuram.bbt.se> pgd@compuram.bbt.se writes: >>>But there is also a lot of evidence which does not fit the >>>evolution theory. >>Such as? > Well, try giving a convincing set of transitionary forms from the reptile >lung to the avian lung for starters. And how about a convincing set of >forms from the reptile scales to the avian feather. This request is a waste of net bandwidth. You can easily find this kind of stuff in modern popular evolutionary works, such as the writings of Gould and Dawkins. > Actually, why don't you just give us all the necessary transitionary >forms from every "known ancestor" to every species today. That would be >convincing enough for me. Ho ho, killing sarcasm. What do you want before you decide to marry -- a comparative biography of every living woman? > And whilst you're at it, throw in an explanation for why the percentage >difference between the DNA of a given reptile and *all* mammals is the same, >regardless of the fact that different mammals should evolve at different >rates. Why don't you try *learning* a little? The answer is well known: almost all DNA is idle, and does not contribute to the expressed genotype. The measurement of difference is the measurement of the background rate of mutation in the idle DNA, and has been well established by many experiments to run at a constant rate. That's the experimental basis on which genetic clocking depends. > Finally, give us the latest estimate on how probable it was for the first >replicating molecule to evolve in a single step. Since nobody thinks this happened, what is your interest in knowing the probability? >< Philip J. Stephens >< "Many views yield the truth." > >< Hons. student, Computer Science >< "Therefore, be not alone." So this guy is actually a *science* student? Obviously Oz basic science education could do with being a bit broader. All that I've written above could have been discovered from reading the quality Sunday newspapers for a year, there's nothing esoteric about it. -- Chris Malcolm cam@uk.ac.ed.aipna +44 (0)31 667 1011 x2550 Department of Artificial Intelligence, Edinburgh University 5 Forrest Hill, Edinburgh, EH1 2QL, UK DoD #205 Path: ns-mx!uunet!cadence!jdm From: jdm@cadence.com (Joe Mastroianni) Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Alien spacecraft to be displayed? [Forwarded from sci.astro] Message-ID: <1991Aug6.160911.13402@cadence.com> Date: 6 Aug 91 16:09:11 GMT References: <2172@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de> Sender: Joe Mastroianni Organization: Cadence Design Systems, Inc. Lines: 12 Xref: ns-mx sci.skeptic:13524 misc.headlines:17303 alt.alien.visitors:1534 I still find it difficult to believe that beings capable of intersteller multidimensional or whatever else , travel, would choose to deal directly with the U.S.government. This does not compute. Joe -- Joe Mastroianni AKA: AA6YD AA6YD @ N6LDL.#NOCAL.CA.USA.NA Cadence Design Systems Santa Clara Ca. "Up the airy mountain;down the rushy glen; we jdm@cadence.com daren't go a hunting; for fear of little men " Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!ddaye From: ddaye@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (David C Daye) Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Alien spacecraft to be displayed? [Forwarded from sci.astro] Message-ID: <1991Aug6.165543.15528@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> Date: 6 Aug 91 16:55:43 GMT References: <2172@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de> <1991Aug6.160911.13402@cadence.com> Sender: news@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Distribution: na Organization: The Ohio State University Lines: 26 Xref: ns-mx sci.skeptic:13526 misc.headlines:17305 alt.alien.visitors:1535 Nntp-Posting-Host: top.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu In article <1991Aug6.160911.13402@cadence.com> jdm@cadence.com, (Joe Mastroianni) writes: >I still find it difficult to believe that beings capable of intersteller >multidimensional or whatever else , travel, would choose to deal directly >with the U.S.government. This does not compute. It may depend on what you're computing. I think of 2 possibilities in response to the standard question of "If they're coming here, why haven't they contacted us formally?" 1) Have you ever "contacted" the ants? We see them, we may stare at them or occasionally experiment with them. But given the differences between them and us in levels of complexity, there isn't much meaning to the term "contact." And even closer to our own level, there are lots of reasons to suspect that "contact" between aliens and any of our institutions would be pointless or nearly meaningless to them. 2) I have the impression that we do "contact" apes fairly regularly. That is, researchers attempting to hang around with chimp or gorrilla troupes (in or out of captivity) do take some trouble to learn the body language and to establish relationships with the leader, position in the pecking order, etc. -- at least some people under some circumstances do this. I know it's true: I saw it on TV!! Anyways this is perhaps one analogue for possible alien contact with a social structure that could be vastly inferior to their own. Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!hp4nl!tuegate.tue.nl!rc6.urc.tue.nl!rw7.urc.tue.nl!wsadjw From: wsadjw@rw7.urc.tue.nl (Jan Willem Nienhuys) Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Alien spacecraft to be displayed? [Forwarded from sci.astro] Message-ID: <779@rc6.urc.tue.nl> Date: 6 Aug 91 16:22:22 GMT References: <2172@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de> Sender: news@rc6.urc.tue.nl Reply-To: wsadjw@urc.tue.nl Followup-To: sci.skeptic Organization: Eindhoven University of Technology, The Netherlands Lines: 58 Xref: ns-mx sci.skeptic:13527 misc.headlines:17306 alt.alien.visitors:1536 In article <2172@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de> p515dfi@mpirbn.UUCP (Daniel Fischer) writes: > Various farmers in a certain area of the US (I forget the state >that was mentioned) regularly discovered bloodless (drained) cattle in >various stages of dismemberment in the early morning. These animals had >had certain glands, body parts, or body fluids surgically removed with a >precision beyond the capabilities of all but the most advanced surgical >laboratories. This problem was so bad that in one place a farmer was in >danger of going bust due to loss of cattle. One explanation advanced was that >aliens were using these cattle as a convenient source of various rare >chemicals/tissues. Oh my goodness. The surgical precision beyond the ken of ordinary technology bit again. This old nut rears it head so often, even after dismemberment, that it is probably the Hydra of Lerna (as you remember, cutting the heads of the Hydra of Lerna didn't work, even when done with surgical precision. Old Hercules approached it differently. He cauterised the wounds after he removed the heads - with surgical precision of course, not just your old Hippocratic surgery, but pre-Hippocratic surgery, only known to the cosmonautic semigods, since then a lost art especially as the surgical instruments consisted of only one (1!) bronze sword, no doubt forged by Merlin or the Lady of the Lake. Cauterizing was also done the semi-divine way namely with torches and an assistant, in short by FLAMING!!). I will humbly emulate Hercules (or his assistant). I can assure you, this flame is patently divine, because the words flow from my fingers almost before I think them up. This cattle mutilation bit is thought up by silly woolly blockheads, who couldn't distinguish a chain saw from a surgical knife, and who, when they happen on a dead animal that has been gnawed at by small predators (who like the soft parts, like the genitals, yes these so called "certain glands" why mince words, their balls of course,- when they happen on such things, these paranormal yokels can only think up the most implausible explanation, UFO's and Satanic Rituals (you know these guys that revel in sneaking up on dead carcasses in the dead of the night and relish in biting off - with surgical precision of course - their half rotten eyes, cunts and dicks and arses - (off the carcasses of course), all in the sick imagination of UFO-freaks and Fundamentalist devil-hunters and hillbilly cops) and what have you. Yechch (sp?). It really doesn't help to send police officers, pathologists, veterinary surgeons and so on to investigate, because whatever they say sinks in the morassess of the hordes of ignorant nitwits and summertime journalism, to vanish out of sight forever and ever. So, maybe this Hydra head has been cauterised. Next. Only one myriad to go. J.W. Nienhuys, Research Group Discrete Mathematics Dept. of Mathematics and Computing Science Eindhoven University of Technology P.O. BOX 513, 5600 MB Eindhoven The Netherlands e-mail: wsadjw@urc.tue.nl Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!ukc!icdoc!ibmassc!rob From: rob@aixssc.ibm.co.uk (Robert Trevelyan) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Winchester Crop Circles Message-ID: <1991Aug05.182139.35565@aixssc.ibm.co.uk> Date: 5 Aug 91 18:21:39 GMT Sender: rob@aixssc.ibm.co.uk (Robert Trevelyan) Organization: IBM AIX Systems Support Centre, UK. Lines: 66 ****************************************************************** Subject: A Strange Object/New Circles at the Punchbowl ****************************************************************** While driving home from Twyford, Hants on Wednesday evening along the M3 with my wife we noticed this strange dark object "flying ?" above us . It was very much a oval/rectangle shape and seemed to be flying about 45 degrees forward of vertical . This object had a very bright light at the top and bottom of the view we could see and these were not flashes but pulsing . This object gradually gained speed and as it did so the pulsing lights got faster and faster . Eventually it sped up and was a good five miles in front of us but still parallel to the M3 and the pulsing light was still extremely bright . The light seemed to be pulsing and the two lights seemed to pulse and create a third in the middle of them. We were also aware of another object pacing it but about half a mile behind it. This could have been a helicopter as it had a flashing light but it also had a bright white light coming from underneath it like a spotlight . Eventually the bright pulsing red light really sped up and disappeared below the horizon. It was about 9:50 and getting quite dark but we could make out that the object, what ever it was, was very large. We live within about 10 miles from RAF Odiham , a Chinook helicopter base and at first thought it was a Chinook, but dismissed this as even one of these that low would be heard over the road noise. It was probably twice the size of a Chinook and had totally different lights underneath it and these were far too bright and were pulsing. All very strange .... The weird part of the story is that after this light had disappeared my wife joked that it was probably on its way home from creating a crop circle in the Punch Bowl . Well, curiosity took over and last evening we went down to Cheesefoot Head to see if anything had appeared and to our amazement there is a formation in the Punch Bowl. This formation a basically a 2 or 3 ringed circle with a tail and is near the edge on the left . We saw it about 10 pm last evening and as it was nearly dark details of the formation were quite sketchy . It could be a hoax as it is near the edge for easy access and its tail or spur looked rough . I will probably go back down there over the weekend and check this out . If it is for real I wonder if it is tied up with the pulsing light ? ******************************************************************** I re-visited the Punch Bowl on Friday night and the formation looks a genuine one. It is basically a "insectogram" head and antennae . The head is two rings with very large curving paths coming from it with smaller circles at the end . Also Thursday night a new formation appeared by the very first formation at Chilcomb . This is difficult to see from the road but looks similar to the original one but larger . Friday night it had been swamped with people and is now probably very trampled. +-------------------------------------------------------------------+ | DISCLAIMER: | | The views expressed in this document are not a corporate view | | nor reflect the views of my employer by any means but are my | | own personal views on this subject . | | | | Robert Trevelyan UKnet: rob@aixssc.ibm.co.uk | | AIX Communications VNET: TREVELR at BASVM2 | | Voice: +44-(0)256-56144 | +-------------------------------------------------------------------+ Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!linus!linus!mwvm.mitre.org!M14494 From: M14494@mwvm.mitre.org Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Alien spacecraft to be displayed? [Forwarded from sci.astro] Message-ID: <1991Aug6.195928.28093@linus.mitre.org> Date: 6 Aug 91 19:56:30 GMT Sender: news@linus.mitre.org (News Service) Organization: The MITRE Corporation, McLean VA 22102 Lines: 3 Nntp-Posting-Host: mwvm.mitre.org Hmmm..., let's see if I've got this right: Dead cow ==> Galactic civilization, faster-than-light travel, and probably anti-gravity". Yup, makes perfect sense to me. Where do I send my money? Path: ns-mx!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!ut-emx!ibmchs!auschs!awdprime!woofer.Berkeley.EDU!craigb From: craigb@woofer.austin.ibm.com (Craig Becker) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Question on significant dates Message-ID: <9934@awdprime.UUCP> Date: 6 Aug 91 18:06:14 GMT References: <1991Aug6.142130.3540@cadence.com> <1991Aug5.155345.9075@cadence.com> <1991Aug5.190220.16288@auc.trw.com> Sender: news@awdprime.UUCP Reply-To: craigb@awdprime.austin.ibm.com Organization: IBM Object Technology Products Lines: 31 In article <1991Aug6.142130.3540@cadence.com>, jdm@cadence.com (Joe Mastroianni) writes: > In article <1991Aug5.190220.16288@auc.trw.com> etuggle@dora.UUCP (Eddie Tuggle) writes: > >Is Whitley Strieber generaly considered to be an athority, reliable? I have read Communion > >and found it quite interesting. ... > I wouldn't personally consider Mr. Strieber to be an authority. He is > simply the highest paid. Im not sure what "reliable" means. If it > means, "should we believe what he says", then , certainly not. ... > Joe Personally, I've taken everything Strieber says or writes with a largish grain of salt ever since I saw him interviewed CBS Nightwatch. He was plugging one of his books (might have been _Communion_) and talking about how his editor ran into a couple of the "little people" checking out his latest volume in a New York City bookstore. Gimme a break! Craig ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- "One slip Craig Becker, Object Technology Products -- -- and down the hole we fall. Internet: craigb@ausvm1.vnet.ibm.com -- -- It seems to take Austin: craigb@woofer.austin.ibm.com -- -- no time at all." VNET: CRAIGB at AUSVM1 -- ----------------- Pink Floyd ------------------------------------------------ -- off 808/1K-020 zip 3008 ph (512) 823-1756 tl 793-1756 hm (512) 346-5397 -- -- IBM Personal Systems Programming, 11400 Burnet Road, Austin, TX, 78759 -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!pacbell.com!att!linac!unixhub!slacvm!johnfw From: JOHNFW@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal Subject: Answers #2 Message-ID: <91218.161837JOHNFW@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> Date: 7 Aug 91 00:18:37 GMT Organization: Stanford Linear Accelerator Center Lines: 12 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:1540 alt.paranormal:2393 In the past a person expressed a disire to know what book he or she should read to know more about UFO's. It is my opinion that a good one to read is Aliens Among us by Ruth Montgomery. It is a paper back book and can be bought in most stores. I would recommend all of Ruth Montgomery's book. A reader of this group once sent E-mail to me and suggested that I read a book by T. Lobsang Rampa. I agree with him because I have read all of his books and have exchanged letters with him before. I have communicated with person by the name of Spangler and I've sent him one of my TV show tapes and they hope to play in on Austin, Texas Cable TV. Don Showen and I will be on today, tuesday at 5:30 PM Path: ns-mx!uunet!iggy.GW.Vitalink.COM!pacbell.com!att!linac!unixhub!slacvm!johnfw From: JOHNFW@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal Subject: Answers #3 Message-ID: <91218.163330JOHNFW@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> Date: 7 Aug 91 00:33:30 GMT Organization: Stanford Linear Accelerator Center Lines: 9 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:1541 alt.paranormal:2394 As I was saying, Don Showen will be on with me by tape and he will be using his meter to show how a person can be regressed back into previous lives. I'll leave you with this saying: A wife doesn' mind her husband's claim that he can read a woman like a book, so long as he does his reading at home. Standard Disclaimer. John. Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!cmcl2!psinntp!rodan.acs.syr.edu!ctdonath From: ctdonath@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Carl T. Donath) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Question on significant dates Message-ID: <1991Aug6.225200.2647@rodan.acs.syr.edu> Date: 6 Aug 91 22:52:00 GMT References: <1991Aug1.064035.4517@bilver.uucp> <860@carbon.crc.ac.uk> Organization: Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY Lines: 47 In article <860@carbon.crc.ac.uk> sgamble@crc.ac.uk (Steve Gamble x3293) writes: >In article , mcgrew@porthos.rutgers.edu (Charles Mcgrew) writes: >> >> ctdonath@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Carl T. Donath) writes: >> >> From time to time there were comments from aliens/spirits that >> significant things would be happening soon; ... Has anyone >> collected these "significant dates" so we can see how often >> they are professed? >> >> ... a good question; but the search list for this will be very long. >> UFO books and articles dating back at least to the 1950's include >> references to "the truth" coming out "sometime soon". Sometimes this >[stuff deleted] >> Charles > >One problem you would have with this is how accurate are the writers >of the books reporting what the witnesses actually state? > >In her book 'Abduction' Jenny Randles mentions, I believe, several >times that witnesses stating that 'something' will happen in 1992. I >know of at least one case where the witness states that they have >never said anything special will happen in 1992. J.R. tends to be >one of the more level headed authors, so if she can make a mistake >what chance do you have if you (have to) rely on more sensationilist >authors????? > >STEVE. > > >-- >(Disclaimer: These are not my employer's opinions, they may not even be mine!) >Steve Gamble, Computing Services, >Clinical Research Centre, Watford Road, Harrow, Middlesex, HA1 3UJ, UK. >Phone: 081 869 3293 JANET: s.gamble@uk.ac.crc INTERNET: s.gamble@crc.ac.uk Unfortunately, most of these "predictions" are open to interpretation. However, some of them are quite specific (ex. the posting that aliens will come to whisk willing earthlings off the planet 5 years from now, or that WWIII was to happen in 1988). Can we get some specific examples of these "fixed" ones? -- \-\-\ ctdonath@rodan.acs.syr.edu Carl T Donath /-/-/ ---------------------------------------------------------------- /-/-/ In most rationalized situations, logic need not apply. \-\-\ Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!hp-pcd!hp-vcd!kevinc From: kevinc@hp-vcd.HP.COM (Kevin Cyrus) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Hanger 19 and Roswell incident Message-ID: <12790003@hp-vcd.HP.COM> Date: 6 Aug 91 23:43:04 GMT References: <1991Jul25.142225.32301@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> Organization: Hewlett Packard, Vancouver, WA Lines: 20 / hp-vcd:alt.alien.visitors / cole@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu / 12:22 pm Jul 25, 1991 / >What happened to the people I was talking to about hanger 19 and the Roswell >incident. Everything just went quiet. No posts, no responses, what in the >hell is going on here. Someone Emailed me the first part of the radio >interview in Las Vegas, but where is the rest of this account? Is any one >getting this message? Am I the only one experiencing this or am I getting >scenile. ---------- OOOOOOEEEEEEEOOOOOOOOooooooooo, Freeze carbon based unit, you have been selected for termination. Prepare to die Earth scum. God, some of you guys really live in a closet. WAKE UP !! SMELL the Neutonion scarploped !!! Kc Path: ns-mx!uunet!wupost!m.cs.uiuc.edu!vela!dlcogswe From: dlcogswe@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Dan Cogswell) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Question on significant dates Message-ID: <8753@vela.acs.oakland.edu> Date: 7 Aug 91 02:50:22 GMT References: <1991Aug6.142130.3540@cadence.com> <1991Aug5.155345.9075@cadence.com> <1991Aug5.190220.16288@auc.trw.com> <9934@awdprime.UUCP> Organization: Oakland University, Rochester MI. Lines: 28 craigb@woofer.austin.ibm.com (Craig Becker) writes: >Personally, I've taken everything Strieber says or writes with a largish >grain of salt ever since I saw him interviewed CBS Nightwatch. He was >plugging one of his books (might have been _Communion_) and talking about >how his editor ran into a couple of the "little people" checking out his >latest volume in a New York City bookstore. Gimme a break! If this is your only objection to Strieber, I suggest you re-think things (and read a bit more). He explains the episode you speak of in _Transformation_ which is a sequel to _Communion_. What is it you object to about the story he told? Personally, I have two things to say about Strieber: (1) I don't believe he's lying and (2) he's a *lot* smarter than your average UFO-nut (or average person, for that matter). I'd like to see how *you* handle the situation he's (apparently) been put into. BTW, it's comments like yours that have led Strieber to label ufologists "the cruellest, nastiest and craziest people I have ever encountered." Do yourself a favor and read his three books (or just _Communion_) before you criticize. He's spent a *little bit* more time thinking about this than you, apparently. >Craig -- Dan Cogswell dlcogswe@vela.acs.oakland.edu Mostly H20 and whatever pizza and Diet Pepsi digest into Path: ns-mx!uunet!decwrl!amdcad!hoptoad!galen From: galen@hoptoad.uucp (Galen Wolf) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Emotional food... Keywords: "greys", food, gov't coverup Message-ID: <20008@hoptoad.uucp> Date: 7 Aug 91 03:33:13 GMT References: <1991Aug1.223641.22957@cbfsb.att.com> Reply-To: galen@hoptoad.UUCP (Galen Wolf) Organization: Anu Lines: 18 > The only scenario I have been able to come up with in which the alleged > gov't coverup makes sense, is that the emotional turmoil that would > result from acknowledging alien visitations would have a very negative > effect on us all. How about, if it were to have a very negative impact on their power over us? (THEIR = Govt) > seems to be going along with this coverup. How did the U.S convince > these nations to go along? What evidence did they present them, and > what possible arguments could they have used? government is government, worldwide. -- galen@toad.com {amdahl,pacbell,pyramid,sun,ucsfcgl,uunet}!hoptoad!galen (Galen Wolf, Anu, POB 280310, San Francisco, CA 94128-0310) (800)SKY-TALK; PIN: 2340000 Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!unix.cis.pitt.edu!dsinc!bagate!cbmvax!amix!vanth!jms From: jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: neophyte ET-freak needs help Message-ID: Date: 6 Aug 91 03:29:49 GMT References: <1991Aug2.162015.54744@eagle.wesleyan.edu> Organization: The Search For TERRESTRIAL Intelligence Lines: 16 In article <1991Aug2.162015.54744@eagle.wesleyan.edu> tmockler@eagle.wesleyan.edu writes: >I've just started reading this newsgroup, and I think I should really pursue my >interest in exterrestrial/UFO stuff... Any suggestions for readings on the >subject would be appreciated. Thanks -Todd Books that have made a big impression on me so far include: "Above Top Secret" by Tim Good "Night Seige" by J. Allen Hynek, Phil Imbrogno, and Bob Pratt "Intruders" by Budd Hopkins -- * From the disk of: | jms@vanth.uucp | "Let's become Jim Shaffer, Jr. | amix.commodore.com!vanth!jms | alive again." 37 Brook Street | uunet!cbmvax!amix!vanth!jms | Montgomery, PA 17752 | 72750.2335@compuserve.com | --Yes Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!unix.cis.pitt.edu!dsinc!bagate!cbmvax!amix!vanth!jms From: jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: needles, implants, tissue samples Message-ID: Date: 6 Aug 91 03:37:26 GMT References: <9851@awdprime.UUCP> Organization: The Search For TERRESTRIAL Intelligence Lines: 20 In article <9851@awdprime.UUCP> craigb@woofer.austin.ibm.com (Craig Becker) writes: >I'm familiar with abductee claims about having needles stuck into their >brain and/or having small BB-like implants; what I'm curious about is >has anyone who claims to have gone through this submitted to a CAT scan >or exploratory surgery to verify this? Or has any abductee ever died and >had a thorough autopsy done? Would be interested in the findings. Whitley Strieber has had some sort of scan done and some sort of objects appeared on it. I don't know if any abductees have died yet, but it would be extremely interesting to check for implants when they do. (Unless the aliens dematerialize them or something.) I haven't heard about any exploratory surgery either. Some sources (Cooper et. al.) say that the implants are located such that it would be extremely difficult to get to them. -- * From the disk of: | jms@vanth.uucp | "Let's become Jim Shaffer, Jr. | amix.commodore.com!vanth!jms | alive again." 37 Brook Street | uunet!cbmvax!amix!vanth!jms | Montgomery, PA 17752 | 72750.2335@compuserve.com | --Yes Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!unix.cis.pitt.edu!gvlf3.gvl.unisys.com!tredysvr!cellar!revpk From: revpk@cellar.UUCP (Brian 'Rev P-K' Siano) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Answers to questains. Message-ID: Date: 7 Aug 91 03:42:22 GMT References: <91218.074352JOHNFW@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> Sender: bbs@cellar.UUCP (The Cellar BBS) Organization: The Cellar BBS and public access system Lines: 23 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:1548 alt.paranormal:2396 sci.skeptic:13536 JOHNFW@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU writes: > > Goodmorning everyone. It might be best if I answer a few questains > that has been put forth before going further. Someone ask what is a > space tape? A space tape is an audio recording on a message from a > space person. In the case of the ones I was talking about > it was from beings that are on a higher vibrational frequency than us and > not is the physical form. > I must go but will leave you with this saying; May you live all the > days of your life. > Standard Disclaimer. > John. Well, then, I guess he used an analog recorder working at a VERY high inches-per-second rate. . . """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" Brian Siano, Delaware Valley Skeptics Rev. Philosopher-King of The First Church of the Divine Otis Redding revpk@Cellar.UUCP "Ecrasez l'enfame!" - Voltaire """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" Path: ns-mx!uunet!fernwood!cronos!zinfandel!eherrera From: eherrera@zinfandel.metaphor.com (Eric Herrera) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Lurker's 1st posting Message-ID: <1014@cronos.metaphor.com> Date: 7 Aug 91 06:20:38 GMT Sender: news@cronos.metaphor.com Organization: Metaphor Computer Systems, Mountain View, CA Lines: 14 Originator: eherrera@zinfandel Hello people... I'm a new Usenetter and this is my very first posting (I'm so excited...). I just thought I'd say that I find the discussions in this news group very interesting. I've been reading the a.a.v postings for about a week now, and I'm sure that I will continue to. For what it's worth, I've read _Communion_ and found it to be *very* unsettling. Ok, all done... going back to Lurkland... -- ...................................................................... ___ : Eric P. Herrera : My opinions only... (__ ' . : Metaphor Computer Systems : Don't blame Metaphor / ,_ , _ : Mountain View, CA :....................... (___)/ (_/(_(_, : eherrera@zinfandel.metaphor.com ...................................................................... Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!unix.cis.pitt.edu!gvlf3.gvl.unisys.com!tredysvr!cellar!revpk From: revpk@cellar.UUCP (Brian 'Rev P-K' Siano) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal Subject: Re: Answers #2 Message-ID: Date: 7 Aug 91 04:19:45 GMT References: <91218.161837JOHNFW@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> Sender: bbs@cellar.UUCP (The Cellar BBS) Organization: The Cellar BBS and public access system Lines: 24 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:1550 alt.paranormal:2399 JOHNFW@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU writes: > > In the past a person expressed a disire to know what book > he or she should read to know more about UFO's. It is my > opinion that a good one to read is Aliens Among us by Ruth > Montgomery. It is a paper back book and can be bought in most > stores. I would recommend all of Ruth Montgomery's book. A reader > of this group once sent E-mail to me and suggested that I read a > book by T. Lobsang Rampa. I agree with him because I have read > all of his books and have exchanged letters with him before. > I have communicated with person by the name of Spangler and I've > sent him one of my TV show tapes and they hope to play in on Austin, > Texas Cable TV. Don Showen and I will be on today, tuesday at 5:30 PM T. Lobsang Rampa? Wasn't he that Englishman who claimed to be a Tibetan holy man? Once wrote that "Einstein, and people like Einstein, said that the earth was flat?" That Lobsang Rampa? """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" Brian Siano, Delaware Valley Skeptics Rev. Philosopher-King of The First Church of the Divine Otis Redding revpk@Cellar.UUCP "Ecrasez l'enfame!" - Voltaire """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!news.funet.fi!ujocs!asiivo From: asiivo@ujocs.joensuu.fi (Antti Siivonen) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal Subject: Re: Answer to how life got started on Earth. Message-ID: <1991Aug6.120038.17853@ujocs.joensuu.fi> Date: 6 Aug 91 12:00:38 GMT References: <91191.083839JOHNFW@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> <1991Jul12.205856.26896@bony1.bony.com> <1991Aug3.170949.19919@hobbes.kzoo.edu> Organization: University of Joensuu, Finland Lines: 25 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:1551 sci.skeptic:13540 alt.paranormal:2401 k080093@hobbes.kzoo.edu (Josh Vander Berg) writes: >In article <91191.083839JOHNFW@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> JOHNFW@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU writes: >>In my opinion one of the reasons why science has a hard time finding >>the missing link and how man evolved on earth is that man is not >>native of this planet but was brought or came here from other planets >Nice theory, too bad it totally ignores scientific fact. If man was >brought here from another planet, why the heck does he share 99% of his >genome with chimps? Answer: He EVOLVED from monkeys. The reason they >can't find any missing link is because things that lived millions of years >ago are generally pretty damned hard to find evidence of nowadays. I >suppose though that you will just argue that whoever put humans here >genetically engineered us to be very similar to apes. Further and further >into fantasy we tread.... The reason why the missing links are so hard to find is that there are no such links at all. A lot of skeletons of apes and people have been found, but no 'links' between them, we must come to a conclusion that, simply, there are no such links. Andreas found, but whe Path: ns-mx!uunet!vicorp!mc From: mc@vicorp.com (Mark Charalambous) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: saucer symbols references Message-ID: <1991Aug7.134131.17818@vicorp.com> Date: 7 Aug 91 13:41:31 GMT Reply-To: mc@vicorp.UUCP (Mark Charalambous) Organization: V. I. Corporation, Amherst, Massachusetts Lines: 11 Does anyone know of any resources which contain pictures or descriptions of any symbols purported to be seen inside UFOs or on UFO retrieved material? For instance, the symbols said to be have seen inside the Roswell saucer. --Mark -- #################### All relevant disclaimers apply ##################### Mark Charalambous mc@vicorp.com VI Corporation uunet!vicorp!mc (413) 586-4144 Path: ns-mx!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!ut-emx!ibmchs!auschs!awdprime!woofer.Berkeley.EDU!craigb From: craigb@woofer.austin.ibm.com (Craig Becker) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Question on significant dates Message-ID: <9962@awdprime.UUCP> Date: 7 Aug 91 12:39:53 GMT References: <8753@vela.acs.oakland.edu> <1991Aug6.142130.3540@cadence.com> <1991Aug5.155345.9075@cadence.com> <1991Aug5.190220.16288@auc.trw.com> <9934@awdprime.UUCP> Sender: news@awdprime.UUCP Reply-To: craigb@awdprime.austin.ibm.com Organization: IBM Object Technology Products Lines: 54 In article <8753@vela.acs.oakland.edu>, dlcogswe@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Dan Cogswell) writes: > craigb@woofer.austin.ibm.com (Craig Becker) writes: > > >Personally, I've taken everything Strieber says or writes with a largish > >grain of salt ever since I saw him interviewed CBS Nightwatch. He was > >plugging one of his books (might have been _Communion_) and talking about > >how his editor ran into a couple of the "little people" checking out his > >latest volume in a New York City bookstore. Gimme a break! > > If this is your only objection to Strieber, I suggest you re-think > things (and read a bit more). He explains the episode you speak of in > _Transformation_ which is a sequel to _Communion_. What is it you > object to about the story he told? Well, quite frankly, I hadn't seen Charlie Rhodes (the interviewer) so close to tears of laughter since he interviewed P.J. O'Rourke. > Personally, I have two things to say about Strieber: (1) I don't > believe he's lying and (2) he's a *lot* smarter than your average > UFO-nut (or average person, for that matter). I'd like to see how *you* > handle the situation he's (apparently) been put into. Quite frankly, if I woke up in the middle of the night and found one of those little gray suckers leaning over me, I'd probably have a heart attack and die. > BTW, it's comments like yours that have led Strieber to label ufologists > "the cruellest, nastiest and craziest people I have ever encountered." My heart bleeds...I'm not a "ufologist" (whatever that is)...I'm just interested in the truth...this UFO stuff is an interesting phenomena... have you ever read anything by Carl Jung? > Do yourself a favor and read his three books (or just _Communion_) > before you criticize. He's spent a *little bit* more time thinking > about this than you, apparently. You got yourself a deal. Soon as the library gets them back in, I'll read them (I flatly refuse to *pay money* for them! :-) > -- > Dan Cogswell dlcogswe@vela.acs.oakland.edu > Mostly H20 and whatever pizza and Diet Pepsi digest into ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- "One slip Craig Becker, Object Technology Products -- -- and down the hole we fall. Internet: craigb@ausvm1.vnet.ibm.com -- -- It seems to take Austin: craigb@woofer.austin.ibm.com -- -- no time at all." VNET: CRAIGB at AUSVM1 -- ----------------- Pink Floyd ------------------------------------------------ -- off 808/1K-020 zip 3008 ph (512) 823-1756 tl 793-1756 hm (512) 346-5397 -- -- IBM Personal Systems Programming, 11400 Burnet Road, Austin, TX, 78759 -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Path: ns-mx!uunet!stanford.edu!unixhub!slacvm!johnfw From: JOHNFW@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal,sci.skeptic Subject: Gnones and things. Message-ID: <91219.073242JOHNFW@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> Date: 7 Aug 91 15:32:42 GMT Organization: Stanford Linear Accelerator Center Lines: 22 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:1554 alt.paranormal:2402 sci.skeptic:13543 In a posting on Aug. 3, l991 there was a posting by Shawn Beltz that I believe was really good. He really had something to say and said it. It had to go with religion, gnomes and a few more things. In regards to this please let me tell your about a incident that was talked about among people who believe in Flying Saucers. Quite a few years back there was a earth person who was given a ride aboard a scout craft and was then taken to a mother ship. He started talking to the space person in English and remarked that he was surprised that the space person could talk in his language. The SP then told him that they had been observing the earth for many thousands of year and they had been written up in many of our holy book. He also stated that they were the pillar of cloud by day and pillar of fire by night that went with the children of Israel, they opened the Red Sea and knock down the walls of Jericho. The local pepople due the fact that the space people were so advanced thought they were Gods. They didn't discourage this because they did the will of the creator. That's all for now I'll leave you with this this thought; A person who does't stand for something, will fall for anything. Standard Disclaimer. John. Path: ns-mx!uunet!spool.mu.edu!agate!linus!linus!mwvm.mitre.org!M14494 From: M14494@mwvm.mitre.org Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Answer to how life got started on Earth. Message-ID: <1991Aug7.125233.6926@linus.mitre.org> Date: 7 Aug 91 12:51:36 GMT Sender: news@linus.mitre.org (News Service) Organization: The MITRE Corporation, McLean VA 22102 Lines: 2 Nntp-Posting-Host: mwvm.mitre.org Absence of proof is not proof of absence. What evidence do you have to support your conclusion? Path: ns-mx!uunet!wupost!gumby!kzoo!k080093 From: k080093@hobbes.kzoo.edu (Josh Vander Berg) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal Subject: Re: Answer to how life got started on Earth. Message-ID: <1991Aug7.152430.17799@hobbes.kzoo.edu> Date: 7 Aug 91 15:24:30 GMT References: <1991Jul12.205856.26896@bony1.bony.com> <1991Aug3.170949.19919@hobbes.kzoo.edu> <1991Aug6.120038.17853@ujocs.joensuu.fi> Organization: Kalamazoo College Lines: 47 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:1556 sci.skeptic:13544 alt.paranormal:2403 In article <1991Aug6.120038.17853@ujocs.joensuu.fi> asiivo@ujocs.joensuu.fi (Antti Siivonen) writes: >k080093@hobbes.kzoo.edu (Josh Vander Berg) writes: > >>In article <91191.083839JOHNFW@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> JOHNFW@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU writes: >>>In my opinion one of the reasons why science has a hard time finding >>>the missing link and how man evolved on earth is that man is not >>>native of this planet but was brought or came here from other planets > >>Nice theory, too bad it totally ignores scientific fact. If man was >>brought here from another planet, why the heck does he share 99% of his >>genome with chimps? Answer: He EVOLVED from monkeys. The reason they >>can't find any missing link is because things that lived millions of years >>ago are generally pretty damned hard to find evidence of nowadays. I >>suppose though that you will just argue that whoever put humans here >>genetically engineered us to be very similar to apes. Further and further >>into fantasy we tread.... > > The reason why the missing links are so hard to find is that there are > no such links at all. A lot of skeletons of apes and people have been > found, but no 'links' between them, we must come to a conclusion that, > simply, there are no such links. > > Andreas > Strange, I am aware of many skeletons having been found which were definitely non-human and non-ape, but primates. But then again, I guess all of the paleontologists(sp?) are wrong, and you are right. I believe that the missing link refers to a link between our proto-human ancestors and "apes". To often people use the "missing link" to totally discount evolution. This is wrong, looking at one gap in the fossil record does not disprove the large body of fossil evidence which shows human's evolution from lower primates. Also, this attitude "the reason we have never found it is because it does not exist" I find to be totally repugnant. By this logic, the reason we have never seen an atom is because they don't exist, the reason we have never seen an electron is because it doesn't exist. This viewpoint, aside from being incredible narrow minded, ignores the fact that the existence of these things can be infered from other directly observable evidence. We know there are electrons because we observe phenomenon which can only by explained by the invention of an electron "model". We also know that the missing link must somehow exist, and can infer quite alot about what the missing link must be like because of the body of fossil evidence surrounding this "gap". -- Josh Vander Berg (k080093@kzoo.edu) Path: ns-mx!uunet!wupost!sdd.hp.com!caen!news.cs.indiana.edu!msi.umn.edu!cs.umn.edu!ux.acs.umn.edu!beddow From: beddow@ux.acs.umn.edu (Jeff Beddow) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: whitley Strieber/reliability Summary: grain of salt Message-ID: Date: 7 Aug 91 15:48:10 GMT Organization: University of Minnesota, Academic Computing Services Lines: 7 It must be remembered that Strieber is a very good science fiction writer. He wrote the book and I believe the screenplay for "Wolfen." While this makes him an eloquent teller of his tale, it also opens up alternate interpretations of his motives...It seems unlikely, but possible, that this is a post-modern version of the Mercury Radio Theater War of the the Worlds? If I get chased by some ugly little shits with galactic army knives for posting this I will let you know. -Jeff Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!ukc!edcastle!ercn67 From: ercn67@castle.ed.ac.uk (M Holmes) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal Subject: Re: Answers #2 Message-ID: <12118@castle.ed.ac.uk> Date: 7 Aug 91 16:36:35 GMT References: <91218.161837JOHNFW@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> Organization: Edinburgh University Lines: 14 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:1558 alt.paranormal:2404 JOHNFW@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU writes: > A reader >of this group once sent E-mail to me and suggested that I read a >book by T. Lobsang Rampa. I agree with him because I have read >all of his books and have exchanged letters with him before. T.Lobsang Rampa? The guy with the Third Eye? Mystical Tibetan churches etc? Didn't I once read somewhere that he was in fact an English accountant with a fertile imagination? Anyone know the scoop? -- A Friend of Fernando Poo Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!midway!francis@zaphod.uchicago.edu From: francis@zaphod.uchicago.edu (Francis the Mad) Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Alien spacecraft to be displayed? [Forwarded from sci.astro] Message-ID: <1991Aug7.163222.19609@midway.uchicago.edu> Date: 7 Aug 91 16:32:22 GMT References: <2172@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de> Sender: news@midway.uchicago.edu (NewsMistress) Organization: Math Dept., University of Chicago Lines: 14 Xref: ns-mx sci.skeptic:13552 misc.headlines:17333 alt.alien.visitors:1559 In article <2172@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de>, p515dfi@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (Daniel Fischer) writes: > Rockwell International and NASA were planning a *massive* > joint exhibition of space exploration this year (1991) but it was delayed > inexplicably until 1992. In the *official* prospectus for this exhibition, Sounds like the "The World Will End Tomorrow!" people. /============================================================================\ | Francis Stracke | My opinions are my own. I don't steal them.| | Department of Mathematics |=============================================| | University of Chicago | Semprini? | | francis@zaphod.uchicago.edu | | \============================================================================/ Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!ukc!icdoc!ibmassc!rob From: rob@aixssc.ibm.co.uk (Robert Trevelyan) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Lastest on the UK Crop Circles Message-ID: <1991Aug07.153837.24998@aixssc.ibm.co.uk> Date: 7 Aug 91 15:38:37 GMT Sender: rob@aixssc.ibm.co.uk (Robert Trevelyan) Organization: IBM AIX Systems Support Centre, UK. Lines: 17 Excitement today because there is a formation very near Chequers, the Prime Ministerial residence in Bucks. This quincunx has a triangle in place of one satellite, and it is rumoured that this points towards Chequers. I have only just received this news so as yet have not visited the site . I will update as soon as possible . +-------------------------------------------------------------------+ | DISCLAIMER: | | The views expressed in this document are not a corporate view | | nor reflect the views of my employer by any means but are my | | own personal views on this subject . | | | | Robert Trevelyan UKnet: rob@aixssc.ibm.co.uk | | AIX Communications VNET: TREVELR at BASVM2 | | Voice: +44-(0)256-56144 | +-------------------------------------------------------------------+ Path: ns-mx!uunet!wupost!psuvax1!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!porthos.rutgers.edu!mcgrew From: mcgrew@porthos.rutgers.edu (Charles Mcgrew) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Question on significant dates Message-ID: Date: 7 Aug 91 15:15:32 GMT References: <1991Aug02.041752.10131@lynx.CS.ORST.EDU> <1991Aug2.223300.5918@rodan.acs.syr.edu> <1991Aug5.155345.9075@cadence.com> <1991Aug5.190220.16288@auc.trw.com> Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J. Lines: 17 To: etuggle@dora.UUCP etuggle@dora.UUCP (Eddie Tuggle) write: Is Whitley Strieber generaly considered to be an athority, reliable? ... he's certainly an interesting fellow. Along with "Communion", and "Transformation" (his UFO-related books), he's also written horror novels - "The Wolfen", "The Hunger", and most recently "The Wild". As far as I know, he hasn't become one of the UFO-genre "stars" (as dlcogswe@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Dan Cogswell) noted, he thinks most UFO-interested-folk are rude and self-obsessed -- and he's probably right -- except for everyone who reads this, of course :-). Hope this helps, Charles Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!linac!att!cbnewsj!mcripps From: mcripps@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (michael.j.cripps) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Great Pyramid part 4 Message-ID: <1991Aug7.191630.17704@cbnewsj.cb.att.com> Date: 7 Aug 91 19:16:30 GMT References: <91206.162505JOHNFW@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> Distribution: usa Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories Lines: 30 In article <91206.162505JOHNFW@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>, JOHNFW@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU writes: > > The entrance way was located exactly 534 feet above the base > on the north side and constructed in such a manner that the light of > your pole star would forever shine down the entire length of its 324 > foot corridor to the subterranean chambers. A feat, my brothers, none > of your more infant races could possible have engineered. This is also > the direction of your true magnetic north pole. The reason, this was > constructed so, was to keep the pole star centered, and thus alleviate > any further axial excursions of your planet. I guess you failed big time, since the "pole star" is constantly shifting (albeit slowly) due to the precession of the earth's axis. > Two hundred forty-three feet below the base rests machines your > scientists would forever marvel upon. Did you by any chance just finish watching _Total_Recall_? > You will notice, my brothers, that of all figures I have mentioned, > they are all mutiples of the numeral "nine." The reason for this being > that nine is the key to the mathematical science dealing with magnetics. Come on, all enlightened beings in the universe know that 23 is the real key... Er, has anyone ever done a study on the health effects of linear accelarators on the local employees? I ask merely for information... Mike Cripps mcripps@sodium.att.com Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!uwm.edu!linac!att!cbnewsj!mcripps From: mcripps@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (michael.j.cripps) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: t'would make an unusual trophy... Message-ID: <1991Aug7.185823.16883@cbnewsj.cb.att.com> Date: 7 Aug 91 18:58:23 GMT References: <1615@faatcrl.UUCP> Distribution: usa Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories Lines: 13 > In article <1615@faatcrl.UUCP>, cciolori@faatcrl.UUCP (cciolori) writes: > > Yes, I shot one last week. It was a little four foot tall green alien ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > with pointed ears. But I didn't use a rifle or a handgun. I used a laser ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > pistol that I got from planet PC22. You shot a leprechaun??? Not sure, but that's *gotta* cause some awfully bad luck :-) Mike Cripps mcripps@sodium.att.com Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!yale!hsdndev!dartvax!mars.caps.maine.edu!maine.maine.edu!io10081 From: IO10081@MAINE.MAINE.EDU (The Xanadian) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Question on significant dates Message-ID: <91219.124511IO10081@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> Date: 7 Aug 91 16:45:11 GMT References: <1991Aug1.064035.4517@bilver.uucp> <1991Aug02.041752.10131@lynx.CS.ORST.EDU> <1991Aug2.223300.5918@rodan.acs.syr.edu> Organization: University of Maine System Lines: 17 I heard one date by this crazy bunch of people on alt.slack: 1998. Normally, I would've shrugged this off and forgot about it. Now I am not so sure.... I believe that the story goes -- the X-ists are supposed to come down and take all of the 'slackful' people into space as Earth destroys itself. Strangely enough, I wrote a book in 1989 where a group of fifty people leave Earth in their own spaceship during the year 1998. And they were called Xanadians (hence, my nickname.) The dates and the use of the letter X is uncanny. Maybe just coincidence... But I am not so sure.... Anyway... life goes on. Path: ns-mx!uunet!wupost!emory!att!cbnewsj!mcripps From: mcripps@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (michael.j.cripps) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Great Pyramid part 4 Message-ID: <1991Aug7.200127.18967@cbnewsj.cb.att.com> Date: 7 Aug 91 20:01:27 GMT References: <91206.162505JOHNFW@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> <1572@gtx.com> Distribution: usa Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories Lines: 21 In article <1572@gtx.com>, al@gtx.com (Alan Filipski) writes: > 534 is not a multiple of 9. But, even if it were, are we to believe that > the units "feet" and "miles" were in use at the time > of the construction of the pyramids? Of course! It's all clear to me now. See, "feet" and "miles" *are* the alien unit of measure. This explains why the U.S. refuses to switch to metric, since all of the secret alien technology the US Govt has uses "english" nuts and bolts. The U.S. is just waiting for the aliens to publicly arrive in 1992, so they can thumb their noses at the rest of the metric world. It also gives the US a big jump on implementing the new alien technology in consumer goods (at last, we can beat Japan!) since we won't have to re-tool. It also explains why the alien ships like to crash in the US. It's the only place on earth they can get spare parts. :-) included for the obtuse... Mike Cripps mcripps@sodium.att.com Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!samsung!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!caen!nstar!sara From: sara@nstar.rn.com (Sara Gordon) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: authors, addresses and no replies Message-ID: <61PB71w161w@nstar.rn.com> Date: 7 Aug 91 20:15:52 GMT Sender: bbs@nstar.rn.com (BBS Account) Organization: NSTAR, Indiana's BBS 219-289-0287/317-251-7391 Lines: 19 Prominent authors re UFO abductions invite people to write to them and give their experiences. Not only is it difficult to admit to the experience in the -first- place, to put in in writing and give your address is another big jump. You'd think they could acknowledge your communique, rather than let you assume that the 'government who is here to HELP you' has intercepted your mail, eh? Especially when you enclose a SSE. *hint--letters go unacknowledged, even when you have a lot of what would appear to be interesting data. Makes one wonder why they include their address. How many people can be writing detailed accounts of alien tracking, and enclose SSE for acknowledgement? -- Sara Gordon Northern Star 8 line BBS 219-289-0287/317-251-7391 internet: sara@nstar.rn.com uucp: ..!uunet!nstar.rn.com!sara -= newsfeeds available, contact robert@towers.rn.com =- Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!samsung!noose.ecn.purdue.edu!dynamo.ecn.purdue.edu!wb9omc From: wb9omc@dynamo.ecn.purdue.edu (Duane P Mantick) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: new reader Summary: howdy Keywords: hello Message-ID: Date: 7 Aug 91 21:15:52 GMT Sender: root@noose.ecn.purdue.edu (ECN System Management) Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network Lines: 40 I have read a bit of the posts to this group with a mix of humor and sadness. In any dealing with UFO's as a possible scientific study, one runs into enough fraud-mongering hoax artists to render doing so virtually impossible. Then all the nay-sayers get up and point fingers saying, "you see? it's all bullshit!" I had never really put a lot of stock into the "little green men" thing. A great number of UFO reports are easily debunked...but, there are those few percent that even the best USAF bullshitters couldn't explain. Recently, I read the new book on the Roswell incident. The authors have done a very credible job, IMHO, of writing this book with a minimum (like, virtually NONE) of the so-called "new age" hype, the psychic connections hype, or other assorted hokey-isms. They stayed very much with the facts as they were able to determine them. I feel like they made a convincing case that whatever crashed out there was NO weather balloon, or target balloon or ANY balloon. I am not really sure what to think about all of it - in the upbringing I had complete with Christian beliefs (many of which I find fairly bogus) there really wasn't anything that would prepare a person to think about people from other worlds. After studying Sagan and Shklovski's (spelling?) book "Intelligent Life in the Universe", I had to agree that the odds of there being other critters than us are pretty good, even if such worlds might be few and far between. So here's a question thrown open to everyone who reads/posts to this group, a multi part question really - What do YOU think happened at Roswell and do you think there may indeed be other worlds with a form of life at *least* as intelligent as our own? Please try to be serious about this - the way the question is worded is NOT intended to be biased in any way. Duane Path: ns-mx!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!yale!hsdndev!dartvax!mars.caps.maine.edu!maine.maine.edu!io10081 From: IO10081@MAINE.MAINE.EDU (The Xanadian) Newsgroups: misc.misc,alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal Subject: SURVEY #2... Continue if you have done survey 1. Message-ID: <91219.145938IO10081@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> Date: 7 Aug 91 18:59:38 GMT Organization: University of Maine System Lines: 101 Xref: ns-mx misc.misc:4994 alt.alien.visitors:1568 alt.paranormal:2406 IF YOU HAVE NOT COMPLETED SURVEY #1, PLEASE LEAVE THIS ARTICLE AND DO SURVEY #1. 19. Name 5 of your favorite movies. 19a. Name your most favorite RECENT movie. 20. What political party (if any) do you belong to? 21. Name 5 _modern_ tunes (if any) (since 1988) that you like. (followup to #5.) 22. Do you belong to any clubs/organizations? 22a. If YES, then name no more than five of them. 23. Y/N/M Do you think, or, do you consider yourself creative? (*) How? (clarify a Maybe) 24. Name your favorite _type_ or style of music, if any. If more than one, name them. 25. Name your favorite form(s) of entertainment. 25a. What type of movie/TV show do you prefer the most? Comedy? Drama? Etc. 26* Assume you are on a planet with no name (followup to number 9). What name would you give it-- 26a* ...if it was a desert planet? 26b* ...if it was a tropical planet? 26c* ...if it was a frozen planet? 26d* ...if it were just like Earth (except there are no people but you and some others..no pollution, roads, buildings, etc.)? 26e* If a new civilization was to be established here, what would you do to help it along? Or, rather, what part(s), if any, would you take in the starting of this community? 27. Do you or have you ever held a position of leadership to any degree? (have you ever led people) 28. What games do you like to play, if any? 29. Followup to number 8: If this person promoted over you was of EQUAL competence and ability as you, would you be upset? 29a* If this person was of another sex or race? (remember that a * means the question is optional!) 30* Truly one of the most debated moral(?) dilemmas in history-- What do you think about abortion? (remember the *) This is it. I doubt that there are any other questions so far... Just as a sneak preview... The results of the first survey are somewhat like this... 1. Most people don't consider themselves leaders. 2. Most people aren't satisfied with their government. (what news!) 3. Most people don't believe in God, and most don't believe in a soul of some kind. 4. Most people consider themselves in fairly good shape. 5. Most people have a diversifying range of likes in music... and there has only been three pop songs (top 40) out of hundreds recorded!!! 6. Most people believe that there are intelligent beings in space (not of this planet, that is) 7. Most people know what xanadu is, and most have quoted the poem as the source. About 20% have noted a song by Rush, which is news to me, as well as it being some kind of heaven (another 20%). 8. Most people would only be bothered by being promoted over if they were more qualified than the person promoted. 9. UNANIMOUSLY would people be willing to travel in space! 9a. Most people would like to inhabit another planet 9b. Most people would want to see a democratic form of government. 9c. Most people would NOT want to be a leader in this government (ie President or something like that.) 10. Most people surveyed are around the age of 25. 11. Single and married are tied for most common. No divorced yet. 12. Most people hold jobs as software engineers. 13. Most people are not superstitious (almost unanimously) 14. Most people do not believe in ghosts (spooks). 15. Most people are able to vote and most do. 16. Most people do nothing about the political shnook. 17. The favorite year so far was 1991. There was one who liked 1917. 18. Most people thought that a sequel is not as good as the first. ....except for Terminator 2. Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!ukc!edcastle!helium!cam From: cam@aifh.ed.ac.uk (Chris Malcolm) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal Subject: Re: Answers #2 Message-ID: <1991Aug7.223224.3368@aifh.ed.ac.uk> Date: 7 Aug 91 22:32:24 GMT References: <91218.161837JOHNFW@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> <12118@castle.ed.ac.uk> Reply-To: cam@aifh.ed.ac.uk (Chris Malcolm) Organization: Dept AI, Edinburgh University, Scotland Lines: 13 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:1569 alt.paranormal:2407 In article <12118@castle.ed.ac.uk> ercn67@castle.ed.ac.uk (M Holmes) writes: >T.Lobsang Rampa? The guy with the Third Eye? Mystical Tibetan churches etc? >Didn't I once read somewhere that he was in fact an English accountant >with a fertile imagination? Anyone know the scoop? I thought an English plumber. When challenged he explained the Lobsang stuff as being memories of other lives. -- Chris Malcolm cam@uk.ac.ed.aipna +44 (0)31 667 1011 x2550 Department of Artificial Intelligence, Edinburgh University 5 Forrest Hill, Edinburgh, EH1 2QL, UK DoD #205 Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!ukc!edcastle!helium!cam From: cam@aifh.ed.ac.uk (Chris Malcolm) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal Subject: Re: Answer to how life got started on Earth. Message-ID: <1991Aug7.223917.3541@aifh.ed.ac.uk> Date: 7 Aug 91 22:39:17 GMT References: <91191.083839JOHNFW@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> <1991Jul12.205856.26896@bony1.bony.com> <1991Aug3.170949.19919@hobbes.kzoo.edu> <1991Aug6.120038.17853@ujocs.joensuu.fi> Reply-To: cam@aifh.ed.ac.uk (Chris Malcolm) Organization: Dept AI, Edinburgh University, Scotland Lines: 17 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:1570 sci.skeptic:13562 alt.paranormal:2408 In article <1991Aug6.120038.17853@ujocs.joensuu.fi> asiivo@ujocs.joensuu.fi (Antti Siivonen) writes: >The reason why the missing links are so hard to find is that there are >no such links at all. A lot of skeletons of apes and people have been >found, but no 'links' between them, we must come to a conclusion that, >simply, there are no such links. You are wrong. As far as precursors of modern man are concerned, very few have been found. The total number of bones found would not even cover the floor of a large room. The same goes for ape precursors. Hence it is hardly surprising that we have not yet found specimens of the much smaller population of "missing links". We are not yet even sure what part of the world to look for them in. -- Chris Malcolm cam@uk.ac.ed.aipna +44 (0)31 667 1011 x2550 Department of Artificial Intelligence, Edinburgh University 5 Forrest Hill, Edinburgh, EH1 2QL, UK DoD #205 Path: ns-mx!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!ucbvax!ucsfcgl!maxwell.mmwb.ucsf.edu!dreyer From: dreyer@maxwell.mmwb.ucsf.edu (Jonathan Dreyer) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Gnones and things. Message-ID: Date: 7 Aug 91 23:54:32 GMT References: <91219.073242JOHNFW@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> Sender: daemon@cgl.ucsf.edu Lines: 5 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:1571 alt.paranormal:2409 sci.skeptic:13565 I think BIFF has finally been revealed! Jonathan Dreyer, M.S. (415)750-2179 (work) 788-8845 (home) Dept Veterans Affairs Med Center 4150 Clement Street San Francisco CA 94121 USA Internet: dreyer@maxwell.mmwb.ucsf.edu Path: ns-mx!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!hp-pcd!hp-vcd!kevinc From: kevinc@hp-vcd.HP.COM (Kevin Cyrus) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Lurker's 1st posting Message-ID: <12790004@hp-vcd.HP.COM> Date: 7 Aug 91 23:14:44 GMT References: <1014@cronos.metaphor.com> Organization: Hewlett Packard, Vancouver, WA Lines: 42 >/ hp-vcd:alt.alien.visitors / eherrera@zinfandel.metaphor.com (Eric Herrera) / 11:20 pm Aug 6, 1991 / > I just thought I'd say that I find the discussions > in this news group very interesting. Hmmmmmmm,....this guy almost sounds like he could be annnn.....hmmmmmm. > I've been reading the a.a.v postings for about a week now, > and I will continue to do so. I'll bet this guy/? really is an Alien. > For what it's worth, I've read _Comminion_ and found it to be *very* unsettling. Now I KNOW he's an Alien !! _______________ Just kidding, I too am kinda new to the group. The subject matter at first seemed very intriging. But alas, it never failed, every time a good base note came up that had promise for good factual discussion; it would quickly degenerate to a mere pile of intergalactic poo poo. IMHO, this group could stand alot more factual clarifications and scientific study references. The *Top Secret* or *mystic* overtones included in some of the base notes just comes across as hypoholical pomposity. Just currious,.... do any of you guys write for the Enquirer ? Sorry to sound so negative, but I feel this group has more actual scientific potential than what it's been plagued with so far, i.e. *Tour of the Galaxy* ???? Stop Poking People In The Butt. and lets see some worthwhile discussions. ______________________________________________________________________ | Kevin Cyrus And thats the trouble with Aliens, | | Hewlett Packard you just don't know. Oh sure sometimes | | Vancouver Wa. you meet a nice one; Star Man, E.T. | | But most of the time, they just turn | | out to be just some big lizard. | |________________________________________________________G.BstersII__| Path: ns-mx!uunet!psinntp!uupsi!bony1!billg From: billg@bony1.bony.com (Bill Gripp) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Gnones and things. Message-ID: <1991Aug7.215341.6952@bony1.bony.com> Date: 7 Aug 91 21:53:41 GMT References: <91219.073242JOHNFW@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> Organization: The Bank of New York Lines: 7 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:1573 alt.paranormal:2411 sci.skeptic:13572 In article <91219.073242JOHNFW@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> JOHNFW@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU writes: > That's all for now I'll leave you with this this thought; A person who >does't stand for something, will fall for anything. I thought this was sci.skeptic. I didn't realize it had become rec.music.country.western! =8^) Path: ns-mx!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!mips!pacbell.com!pacbell!rtech!ingres!kevinq From: kevinq@ingres.com (Kevin Quinn) Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal Subject: Re: Answers to questains. Message-ID: <1991Aug7.182425.22205@pony.Ingres.COM> Date: 7 Aug 91 18:24:25 GMT References: <91218.074352JOHNFW@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> Reply-To: kevinq@squid.Ingres.COM (Kevin Quinn) Organization: Ask Computer Systems Inc., Ingres Division, Alameda CA 94501 Lines: 16 Xref: ns-mx sci.skeptic:13573 alt.alien.visitors:1574 alt.paranormal:2412 In article <91218.074352JOHNFW@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> JOHNFW@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU writes: > >Someone ask what is a >space tape? A space tape is an audio recording on a message from a >space person. In the case of the ones I was talking about >it was from beings that are on a higher vibrational frequency than us and ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Huh? Can you spell tautology, John? Now come on and admit it - your address is a fake. Your ramblings, misspellings, and naivete indicate, perhaps, a high school freshman - _not_ someone in a institute of 'higher' learning! But then, we're talking Stanford here... hmmmm..... kbq Path: ns-mx!uunet!cbmvax!amix!vanth!jms From: jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ai-trad Message-ID: Date: 7 Aug 91 03:57:30 GMT References: <73220.289C6879@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Organization: The Search For TERRESTRIAL Intelligence Lines: 8 Thanks for cross-posting that, Mike. I haven't had a chance to call Paranet recently. -- * From the disk of: | jms@vanth.uucp | "Let's become Jim Shaffer, Jr. | amix.commodore.com!vanth!jms | alive again." 37 Brook Street | uunet!cbmvax!amix!vanth!jms | Montgomery, PA 17752 | 72750.2335@compuserve.com | --Yes Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!news.funet.fi!fuug!tuura!urbanf From: urbanf@tuura.UUCP (Urban Fredriksson) Newsgroups: misc.misc,alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal Subject: Re: SURVEY #2... Continue if you have done survey 1. Message-ID: <1320@tuura.UUCP> Date: 8 Aug 91 05:27:14 GMT References: <91219.145938IO10081@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> Organization: Nokia Data Systems Oy Lines: 17 Xref: ns-mx misc.misc:4996 alt.alien.visitors:1576 alt.paranormal:2413 IO10081@MAINE.MAINE.EDU (The Xanadian) writes: >21. Name 5 _modern_ tunes (if any) (since 1988) that you like. To me, modern music started _at_least_ in the 1950's! >26* Assume you are on a planet with no name (followup to number 9). What > name would you give it-- >26a* ...if it was a desert planet? >26b* ...if it was a tropical planet? >26c* ...if it was a frozen planet? You must have read too much Flash Gordon and seen too many Star Wars movies. Never occured to you that most inhabitable planets would be _all_ of the above, at the same time? -- Urban Fredriksson, Stockholm, Sweden (who speaks ONLY for himself!) "We are all naked under our clothes." Path: ns-mx!uunet!wupost!usc!apple!spies!blake From: bbs.blake@doomsday.Spies.COM (Blake) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Answer to how life got started on Earth. Message-ID: Date: 7 Aug 91 20:54:28 GMT References: <1991Aug6.001828.26671@latcs1.lat.oz.au> Sender: news@Spies.COM Organization: Spies in the wire, (408) 867-7400 Lines: 57 Nntp-Posting-Host: doomsday.spies.com stephens@ipc1.lat.oz.au (Philip J Stephens) writes: > In article <773@rc6.urc.tue.nl> wsadjw@urc.tue.nl writes: > >In article <1991Aug5.084242.3359@compuram.bbt.se> pgd@compuram.bbt.se writes > >>But there is also a lot of evidence which does not fit the > >>evolution theory. > > > >Such as? > > Well, try giving a convincing set of transitionary forms from the reptile > lung to the avian lung for starters. And how about a convincing set of > forms from the reptile scales to the avian feather. > Actually, why don't you just give us all the necessary transitionary > forms from every "known ancestor" to every species today. That would be > convincing enough for me. > And whilst you're at it, throw in an explanation for why the percentage > difference between the DNA of a given reptile and *all* mammals is the same, > regardless of the fact that different mammals should evolve at different > rates. > Finally, give us the latest estimate on how probable it was for the first > replicating molecule to evolve in a single step. > Well, for how life started on Earth, there are two possibilities. The arbitrarily chosen first possibility is pretty interesting, but probably absurd to even the truest of true Visitor believers. Consider this: (perhaps this should be in alt.paranormal) Poltergeists are believed to be physical manifestations of intense emotions of the persom with whom the poltergeist is associated. If emotions can produce this much of an effect, moving objects, starting fires, and such, then it would follow that emotions could probably be a pretty powerful creative force. Well, there is a Tibetan (I think it's Tibetan) tribe that uses a ritual that allows them to create things through concentration. Now, if we go with the belief that emotions are a creative force, then perhaps SOMEONE out there would create life simply to produce this creative force, or "loosh" (I'll put my source at the end). Now, it is also perhaps possible that this "loosh" is released through any form of conflict, death, etc, where in plants it is converted from raw solar energy and IS the very structure of the plant itself. Now, through death, conflict, and such, the "loosh" produced would be crude, and necessarily refined in order to be of any use. (Dead plants don't move furniture.) As more predators, and levels in the food web were produced, more "loosh" was released. Until one day, when this "someone" happened to notice a small amount of the refined "loosh" mixed with the unrefined. This individual went to his "garden" and saw one of its "creations" was LONELY. So this individual proceded to split every entity in half, creating male and female, and placed a small part of itself within every one, so that the desire for union both with its other half and its creator would release refined "loosh". Sounds kind of like Genesis, doesn't it? Anyway, my source for that was a "brochure" printed in Far Journeys by Robert Monroe. Now, perhaps the tenders of this "garden", and the effectors of the genetic changes, were the "visitors" which are so popular... just maybe... -- Blake (bbs.blake@doomsday.Spies.COM) Spies in the Wire, PUBLIC ACCESS UNIX -- (408) 867-7400 Path: ns-mx!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!mips!apple!spies!blake From: bbs.blake@doomsday.Spies.COM (Blake) Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Alien spacecraft to be displayed? [Forwarded from sci.astro] Message-ID: Date: 7 Aug 91 21:01:43 GMT References: <1991Aug6.160911.13402@cadence.com> Sender: news@Spies.COM Organization: Spies in the wire, (408) 867-7400 Lines: 14 Xref: ns-mx sci.skeptic:13580 misc.headlines:17335 alt.alien.visitors:1578 Nntp-Posting-Host: doomsday.spies.com jdm@cadence.com (Joe Mastroianni) writes: > I still find it difficult to believe that beings capable of intersteller > multidimensional or whatever else , travel, would choose to deal directly > with the U.S.government. This does not compute. > [lines deleted] It makes perfect sense, when you consider that perhaps they are attempting to "ready" our society for the shock of finding out we're NOT alone. -- Blake (bbs.blake@doomsday.Spies.COM) Spies in the Wire, PUBLIC ACCESS UNIX -- (408) 867-7400 Path: ns-mx!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!mips!apple!spies!blake From: bbs.blake@doomsday.Spies.COM (Blake) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Answer to how life got started on Earth. Message-ID: Date: 7 Aug 91 21:05:21 GMT References: <1991Aug6.142140.27984@aifh.ed.ac.uk> Sender: news@Spies.COM Organization: Spies in the wire, (408) 867-7400 Lines: 52 Nntp-Posting-Host: doomsday.spies.com cam@aifh.ed.ac.uk (Chris Malcolm) writes: > In article <1991Aug6.001828.26671@latcs1.lat.oz.au> stephens@ipc1.lat.oz.au ( > >In article <773@rc6.urc.tue.nl> wsadjw@urc.tue.nl writes: > >>In article <1991Aug5.084242.3359@compuram.bbt.se> pgd@compuram.bbt.se write > >>>But there is also a lot of evidence which does not fit the > >>>evolution theory. > > >>Such as? > > > Well, try giving a convincing set of transitionary forms from the reptile > >lung to the avian lung for starters. And how about a convincing set of > >forms from the reptile scales to the avian feather. > > This request is a waste of net bandwidth. You can easily find this kind > of stuff in modern popular evolutionary works, such as the writings of > Gould and Dawkins. > > > Actually, why don't you just give us all the necessary transitionary > >forms from every "known ancestor" to every species today. That would be > >convincing enough for me. > > Ho ho, killing sarcasm. What do you want before you decide to marry -- a > comparative biography of every living woman? > > > And whilst you're at it, throw in an explanation for why the percentage > >difference between the DNA of a given reptile and *all* mammals is the same, > >regardless of the fact that different mammals should evolve at different > >rates. > > Why don't you try *learning* a little? The answer is well known: almost > all DNA is idle, and does not contribute to the expressed genotype. The > measurement of difference is the measurement of the background rate of > mutation in the idle DNA, and has been well established by many > experiments to run at a constant rate. That's the experimental basis on > which genetic clocking depends. > > > Finally, give us the latest estimate on how probable it was for the first > >replicating molecule to evolve in a single step. > > Since nobody thinks this happened, what is your interest in knowing the > probability? > [lines deleted] Actually, I don't know how a self replicating molecule could evolve in MULTIPLE steps, because I would assume that evolution requires some form of replication. -- Blake (bbs.blake@doomsday.Spies.COM) Spies in the Wire, PUBLIC ACCESS UNIX -- (408) 867-7400 Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!news.iastate.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!mips!spool.mu.edu!news.cs.indiana.edu!ariel.unm.edu!cie.uoregon.edu!christ From: christ@cie.uoregon.edu (Christian G. Smith) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Question on significant dates Summary: """"BOB ATE MY BABY!"""" Message-ID: <1991Aug08.062048.19792@ariel.unm.edu> Date: 8 Aug 91 06:20:48 GMT References: <1991Aug02.041752.10131@lynx.CS.ORST.EDU> <1991Aug2.223300.5918@rodan.acs.syr.edu> <91219.124511IO10081@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> Organization: Campus Information Exchange, University of Oregon Lines: 32 The Xanadian types: > > I believe that the story goes -- the X-ists are supposed to come >down and take all of the 'slackful' people into space as Earth >destroys itself. Strangely enough, I wrote a book in 1989 where a >group of fifty people leave Earth in their own spaceship during >the year 1998. And they were called Xanadians (hence, my nickname.) 1998 pops up in alot of places, the least credible of which is the BOB movement. Their book, the "Book of BOB", is a joke. Literally. I don't know how much you know about them, but the religion itself is a spoof on religions: the main goal is to break away from the church and start your own. =) While a clever and often humorous bit of fiction, it shouldn't be confused with an honest-ta-goodness RELIGION (i.e. having mystical insight into the future through divine/extraterrestrial intervention). It's only good for a good yuk now and then, and more importantly to keep yourself from being too serious. Oh yeah, and it's also great for stencil-spraying BOB's face on cop cars downtown. =) "In '98 we _ALL_ rotate..." - INXS Colored lights can hypnotize, '00j27>Possum_Dark christ@cie.uoregon.edu -- ************************** Censorship, extra vertibra, frilled lizzards, earth * christ@cie.uoregon.edu * rock, poppy-cock, ICBM madness, stripping teens, ************************** I don't dare ask what it all means... Sometimes the universe is so kual you just have to double over and puke. Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!news.iastate.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!wupost!psuvax1!psuvm!jkc3 From: JKC3@psuvm.psu.edu (Joe Cool) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Movie "Communion" Message-ID: <91220.010659JKC3@psuvm.psu.edu> Date: 8 Aug 91 05:06:59 GMT Organization: Penn State University Lines: 25 I just finished watching the above mentioned movie before coming into work tonite.....good movie. I have my own beliefs of what is and what isn't, and although I've never seen any aliens, I don't rule them out as existing....I've never seen an honest poli tician, but I don't rule them out of existeince either....maybe on the extinct list, but that's another item of discussion. Anyhow, the movie makes a person think, and it is realistic as far as how the main character (Strieber is the guys name...also author of the book) deals with the situation. I'm not going to tell how he dealt with it, that would ruin the purpose of the movie/book, but I do advise anyone who is interested in UFO's, be they a skeptic or a believer, to read the book or see the movie. This movie is one where you have to pay attention to everything that is said or you miss a point that comes in later on. It is not a boring documentary or just a list of encouters...it's more on the "here's my story take it or leave it" level. I liked it. For those of you who have SHOWTIME (the pay channel), it is showing this month at different times, and I also heard that it is available on video at most video rental stores. Path: ns-mx!uunet!fernwood!cronos!zinfandel!eherrera From: eherrera@zinfandel.metaphor.com (Eric Herrera) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Reading material Message-ID: <1022@cronos.metaphor.com> Date: 8 Aug 91 06:13:00 GMT Sender: news@cronos.metaphor.com Distribution: usa Organization: Metaphor Computer Systems, Mountain View, CA Lines: 21 Originator: eherrera@zinfandel Over the last few days some posters have recommended reading material on the subject of this group. Specifically mentioned were the Streiber books (with which I am already familiar), something called _Aliens Among Us_ (I think) and a few others. I would appreciate someone sending me a *short* bibliography -- I'd particularly like the info on _Aliens..._ and a few other "must reads." One question... I presume that we are all familiar with the plain of Nazca in Peru (big ground etchings of monkeys, hummingbirds, spiders and other things discernable only from a pretty good altitude, and supposedly quite old)... any theories, debunks, etc.? Is this a FAQ? Thank you so very much... -- ...................................................................... ___ : Eric P. Herrera : My opinions only... (__ ' . : Metaphor Computer Systems : Don't blame Metaphor / ,_ , _ : Mountain View, CA :....................... (___)/ (_/(_(_, : eherrera@zinfandel.metaphor.com ...................................................................... Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!ukc!mrccrc!sgamble From: sgamble@crc.ac.uk (Steve Gamble x3293) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: needles, implants, tissue samples Message-ID: <862@carbon.crc.ac.uk> Date: 8 Aug 91 10:48:59 GMT References: <9851@awdprime.UUCP> Organization: MRC Human Genome Mapping Project Resource Centre, Harrow, U.K. Lines: 75 In article , jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer) writes: > In article <9851@awdprime.UUCP> craigb@woofer.austin.ibm.com (Craig Becker) writes: > >I'm familiar with abductee claims about having needles stuck into their > >brain and/or having small BB-like implants; what I'm curious about is > > Whitley Strieber has had some sort of scan done and some sort of objects > appeared on it. I don't know if any abductees have died yet, but it would [stuff deleted] As I understand it a couple of bright spots were found on Whitley's CAT scan. Speaking to people who know more about CAT scans than I, I believe that these Anomolous Bright Objects are seen in a proportion (the figure 5%, if I recall correctly) of otherwise normal brains. As usual care should be exercised in interperating the data. These are just bright spots which show up on the CAT scan, there is no evidence of them being implants or anythingelse. I am not aware that Whitley himself has made any claims about these spots. We could now enter the field of speculation! If the bright spots DID turn out to implants this might suggest that up to 1 in 20 people were abductees (i.e. 5%). At a recent conference I heard the quote that 'many more people than we thought, maybe 1 in 40 of the population have been abducted'. (I cannot remember who told me this otherwise I would point the finger :) ) The 'classic' picture is that humans are abducted by extraterrestrials in flying saucers. If we then try to apply a little bit of logic to this using the lower 'estimate' of 1 in 40 :- If we take the U.S. population as being 250 million and abductions occuring for the last 40 years this would suggest 6,250,000 people had been abducted in the U.S. which is 156,250 per year or 428 per day ! Remember that would be for the U.S. alone on the basis of the 1 in 40 people I was quoted That is without anythingelse 'they' might get up to like cattle mutilations. No doubt NASA would be pleased with 10% of the budget these guys would have!!!!! What I am trying to convey is that we should try to think through carefully the implications of things like '1 in 40 people have been abducted' and urge further caution in assigning abduction to ET's. Having urged caution, some further observation/speculation! Thinking about abductee case reports I have read there might be a kind of consistency with some form of controlling implant. In Streibers case the 'visitors' came just as he was falling asleep. In the Communion film they seem to insert a needle somewhere behind his ear. It could be argued that an implant inserted here could be placed in brain stem centres which there is some evidence are involved in sleep. Likewise in Cathy Davies case (from Budd Hopkins book Intruders) she seems to be abducted when gets the compulsion to visit the local late night store to buy Coke or snacks. She describes implants inserted up her nose. Would such an implant be placed in hypothalamic centres which control feeding behaviour? In Ed Walters case (Gulf Breeze) he describes hearing a loud buzzing noise just before the UFO's appear. He also describes having an implant inserted in his temple. I believe that around this area of the brain is where hearing is resolved. In summary, I am uneasy at buying the ET's, abduction and implant scenario as it is normally sold. But then again if we adopt the attitude there ain't no ET's and there ain't no implants why to some of the witnesses describe the effects you might expect if they did have an implant??!!!! STEVE. -- (Disclaimer: These are not my employer's opinions, they may not even be mine!) Steve Gamble, Computing Services, Clinical Research Centre, Watford Road, Harrow, Middlesex, HA1 3UJ, UK. Phone: 081 869 3293 JANET: s.gamble@uk.ac.crc INTERNET: s.gamble@crc.ac.uk Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!ukc!mrccrc!sgamble From: sgamble@crc.ac.uk (Steve Gamble x3293) Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Alien spacecraft to be displayed? [Forwarded from sci.astro] Message-ID: <863@carbon.crc.ac.uk> Date: 8 Aug 91 13:07:04 GMT References: <2172@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de> Organization: MRC Human Genome Mapping Project Resource Centre, Harrow, U.K. Lines: 30 Xref: ns-mx sci.skeptic:13591 misc.headlines:17337 alt.alien.visitors:1584 In article <2172@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de>, p515dfi@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (Daniel Fischer) writes: > From: huw@spls5.ccs.mt.nec.co.jp (Huw Jonathan Rogers) > > I recently heard a Radio One program in the UK that contained > an interview with a leading proponent of the popular "US Government has > aliens locked up and is experimenting with their spaceplanes" conspiracy > theory. However this particular individual sounded very reasonable, did > not make any outrageous claims, and further had some interesting facts > to disclose. In particular he mentioned several verifiable facts which [lots deleted] This sounds as if it is a chap called Tim Good who has just written a book called Alien Liason. I have started reading this and have so far reached about half way. In my opinion some of the evidence Tim presents is very thin. Maybe it gets better as the book goes on. The book concerns stories of crashed saucers, cattle mutilations (the book mentions a number of incidents from Colorado, so perhaps this is the state you were thinking of?) and government cover-ups and similar type information. I will reserve final judgement until I have finished the book STEVE. -- (Disclaimer: These are not my employer's opinions, they may not even be mine!) Steve Gamble, Computing Services, Clinical Research Centre, Watford Road, Harrow, Middlesex, HA1 3UJ, UK. Phone: 081 869 3293 JANET: s.gamble@uk.ac.crc INTERNET: s.gamble@crc.ac.uk Path: ns-mx!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!ut-emx!ibmchs!auschs!awdprime!woofer.Berkeley.EDU!craigb From: craigb@woofer.austin.ibm.com (Craig Becker) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: whitley Strieber/reliability Message-ID: <10001@awdprime.UUCP> Date: 8 Aug 91 12:04:46 GMT References: Sender: news@awdprime.UUCP Reply-To: craigb@awdprime.austin.ibm.com Organization: IBM Object Technology Products Lines: 26 In article , beddow@ux.acs.umn.edu (Jeff Beddow) writes: > It must be remembered that Strieber is a very good science fiction writer. ^^^^^^^^^ Having (at the wife's insistance) struggled through _Nature's End_ and half of _War Day_, I wouldn't go so far as to say he's "very good" at all (of course, it must be stated that the books I attempted were joint ventures between him and some other guy). The guy reminds me of L. Ron Hubbard. > If I get chased by some ugly little shits with galactic army knives for > posting this I will let you know. Please do, and the same goes for me...open message to any ETs who might be monitoring this network: Stop on by! I'll acquaint you with my collection of 9mm ammo ;-) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Craig Becker, Object Technology Products -- -- "Plus ca change, Internet: craigb@ausvm1.vnet.ibm.com -- -- plus c'est la meme chose" Austin: craigb@woofer.austin.ibm.com -- -- VNET: CRAIGB at AUSVM1 -- ----------------- Pink Floyd ------------------------------------------------ -- off 808/1K-020 zip 3008 ph (512) 823-1756 tl 793-1756 hm (512) 346-5397 -- -- IBM Personal Systems Programming, 11400 Burnet Road, Austin, TX, 78759 -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Path: ns-mx!uunet!stanford.edu!unixhub!slacvm!johnfw From: JOHNFW@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal,sci.skeptic Subject: Solar Tour part#5 Message-ID: <91220.073933JOHNFW@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> Date: 8 Aug 91 15:39:33 GMT Organization: Stanford Linear Accelerator Center Lines: 19 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:1586 alt.paranormal:2414 sci.skeptic:13595 (Monka speaking) Now, let us leave this one and spiral outwards again. And lo, what do we behold but a swirling dirvish, a ring of tiny fragments --that known to you as the asteroid belt -- the remains of a planet (Maldek). These remnants whirl around my planet and that one from whioch life sprang in this system. We look closer now and behold the mightiest of all the planerts in this Solar System, the one known as Jupiter. Truly, this is a singular sight to gaze upon, with its many moons circling about it -- those that were created and those natural from the point of ceation. We look down on size that begins to dim one's comprehension of size. We see huge cloud flotillas, mighty land masses, tremendous oceans, and the oldest civilization prevalent in this Solar System. Here reside those beings which overlook MAN's affairs in this sector of space. Gotta go. Standard Disclaimer. No saying this time. John. Path: ns-mx!uunet!wupost!emory!ra!ewf2 From: ewf2@ra.MsState.Edu (Juice S. Aaron) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Communion question Summary: I wanna know if the movie was true to the book. Keywords: communion Message-ID: Date: 8 Aug 91 15:31:47 GMT Lines: 30 A few months ago I picked up and read the vast majority of the book called Communion. What the book had to say was quite interesting and sometimes somewhat shocking for me. I spent many a night wondering if big ugly aliens with spindly arms would come waltzing down my hall (or if they already had and I just didn't remember it.) Then I heard that there was a movie based on the book and after waiting millenia for it to be released on video was able to watch it. I noticed that the screenplay for the movie was written by Streiber himself so I thought we'll get the real picture that was presented in the book. Now I watched the movie and afterwards I found myself wondering if it was actually true to the book. Several minor little things were changed, (such as the gender of the psychiatrist he went to) but nothing major seemed out of place until the scene near the end with the aliens in suit coats and the strangeness that went on then. I seem to remember the movie having something really out of place near the end that involved the aliens dressed up like humans who removed their faces to show human faces under them. I don't seem to remember that from the book. (Not to say it wasn't in the book as I didn't read some bits of the book as well as I read other bits) Did the movie stick to the book or did streiber take liberties with his own supposedly true story? JSA Path: ns-mx!uunet!wupost!m.cs.uiuc.edu!vela!dlcogswe From: dlcogswe@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Dan Cogswell) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: whitley Strieber/reliability Message-ID: <8766@vela.acs.oakland.edu> Date: 7 Aug 91 17:28:57 GMT References: Organization: Oakland University, Rochester MI. Lines: 27 beddow@ux.acs.umn.edu (Jeff Beddow) writes: >It must be remembered that Strieber is a very good science fiction writer. He wrote the book and I believe the screenplay for "Wolfen." While this makes him an eloquent teller of his tale, it also opens up alternate interpretations of his motives...It seems unlikely, but possible, that this is a post-modern version of the Mercury Radio Theater War of the the Worlds? Isn't _Wolfen_ a horror story? _Warday_ is probably science fiction, but he did a lot of research for that and it's based on reality. Besides, _Communion_ and _Transformation_ *are not* science fiction. There's very little that's "scientific" about them and they *are not* fiction (according to the author). The point is, though: he's an *author*. I don't think the abduction books he's written are typical of his style. Would he be more credible to you if he was a romance novel writer? Did you ever think whoever's doing this to him chose him for his story-writing abilities? He's stated plainly and taken lie-detector tests demonstrating that his story is true. He *believes* it's true; now it's just a matter of whether he's crazy or not. Of course, offering to donate all proceeds from his books to an organization in charge of investigating UFOs would lend some credibility, but the man's gotta eat ( and he spent a lot of time on the books). >-Jeff -- Dan Cogswell dlcogswe@vela.acs.oakland.edu Mostly H20 and whatever pizza and Diet Pepsi digest into Path: ns-mx!uunet!cadence!jdm From: jdm@cadence.com (Joe Mastroianni) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Question on significant dates Message-ID: <1991Aug8.154720.18823@cadence.com> Date: 8 Aug 91 15:47:20 GMT References: <1991Aug5.155345.9075@cadence.com> <1991Aug5.190220.16288@auc.trw.com> Sender: Joe Mastroianni Organization: Cadence Design Systems, Inc. Lines: 33 In article mcgrew@porthos.rutgers.edu (Charles Mcgrew) writes: > > etuggle@dora.UUCP (Eddie Tuggle) write: > Is Whitley Strieber generaly considered to be an athority, > reliable? > >... he's certainly an interesting fellow. Along with "Communion", and >"Transformation" (his UFO-related books), he's also written horror >novels - "The Wolfen", "The Hunger", and most recently "The Wild". > > As far as I know, he hasn't become one of the UFO-genre "stars" (as >dlcogswe@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Dan Cogswell) noted, he thinks most >UFO-interested-folk are rude and self-obsessed -- and he's probably >right -- except for everyone who reads this, of course :-). > >Hope this helps, > >Charles Yes, he writes a lot of books. He makes quite a bit of money on them. He received a one million dollar ADVANCE on "Communion". The profit motive is certainly there. The truth, or lack thereof, of the subject matter is certainly in question. However, I do believe he feels he is telling the "truth". Joe -- Joe Mastroianni AKA: AA6YD AA6YD @ N6LDL.#NOCAL.CA.USA.NA Cadence Design Systems Santa Clara Ca. "Up the airy mountain;down the rushy glen; we jdm@cadence.com daren't go a hunting; for fear of little men " Path: ns-mx!uunet!cadence!jdm From: jdm@cadence.com (Joe Mastroianni) Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Alien spacecraft to be displayed? [Forwarded from sci.astro] Message-ID: <1991Aug8.155535.20373@cadence.com> Date: 8 Aug 91 15:55:35 GMT References: <1991Aug6.160911.13402@cadence.com> Organization: Cadence Design Systems, Inc. Lines: 27 Xref: ns-mx sci.skeptic:13597 misc.headlines:17339 alt.alien.visitors:1590 In article bbs.blake@doomsday.Spies.COM (Blake) writes: >jdm@cadence.com (Joe Mastroianni) writes: > >> I still find it difficult to believe that beings capable of intersteller >> multidimensional or whatever else , travel, would choose to deal directly >> with the U.S.government. This does not compute. >> >[lines deleted] >It makes perfect sense, when you consider that perhaps they are attempting >to "ready" our society for the shock of finding out we're NOT alone. > >-- >Blake (bbs.blake@doomsday.Spies.COM) > >Spies in the Wire, PUBLIC ACCESS UNIX -- (408) 867-7400 Actually, my point is: Why would an advanced civilization regard our form of government as a vehicle to communicate or control the masses? When we take eggs from chickens, we don't bother to ask the "head rooster". We go right to the chickens. Its easier. Joe -- Joe Mastroianni AKA: AA6YD AA6YD @ N6LDL.#NOCAL.CA.USA.NA Cadence Design Systems Santa Clara Ca. "Up the airy mountain;down the rushy glen; we jdm@cadence.com daren't go a hunting; for fear of little men " Path: ns-mx!uunet!cadence!jdm From: jdm@cadence.com (Joe Mastroianni) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: needles, implants, tissue samples Message-ID: <1991Aug8.160450.21836@cadence.com> Date: 8 Aug 91 16:04:50 GMT References: <9851@awdprime.UUCP> <862@carbon.crc.ac.uk> Organization: Cadence Design Systems, Inc. Lines: 46 In article <862@carbon.crc.ac.uk> sgamble@crc.ac.uk (Steve Gamble x3293) writes: >In article , jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer) writes: >> In article <9851@awdprime.UUCP> craigb@woofer.austin.ibm.com (Craig Becker) writes: >> >I'm familiar with abductee claims about having needles stuck into their >> >brain and/or having small BB-like implants; what I'm curious about is >> >> Whitley Strieber has had some sort of scan done and some sort of objects >> appeared on it. I don't know if any abductees have died yet, but it would >[stuff deleted] > >As I understand it a couple of bright spots were found on Whitley's CAT >scan. Speaking to people who know more about CAT scans than I, I believe >-- >(Disclaimer: These are not my employer's opinions, they may not even be mine!) >Steve Gamble, Computing Services, >Clinical Research Centre, Watford Road, Harrow, Middlesex, HA1 3UJ, UK. >Phone: 081 869 3293 JANET: s.gamble@uk.ac.crc INTERNET: s.gamble@crc.ac.uk I think Strieber also says in "Communion" that the same thing happens to his son. When he takes his kid to a pediatrician, the doctor looks up the kids nose and says he dosent see anything abnormal. Just some openings in the upper part of the nasal cavity which seem to be common in kids. You are then supposed to wonder, as a thinking reader, why the hell is it common for kids to have needle holes in the top of their nasal cavity? I have a close friend who is a pediatrician. He dosent think its common for kids to have needle holes in their nasal cavities, unless they stuck pencils up their noses. Are any of you pediatricians? From my own childhood, and my own brief experience as a parent, I know that it is not uncommon to have a child wake up with a nosebleed. This has always been attributed to dry conditions and viruses. I have never suspected brain implants. One way to scare people is to give them weird explanations for very common experiences. Joe -- Joe Mastroianni AKA: AA6YD AA6YD @ N6LDL.#NOCAL.CA.USA.NA Cadence Design Systems Santa Clara Ca. "Up the airy mountain;down the rushy glen; we jdm@cadence.com daren't go a hunting; for fear of little men " Path: ns-mx!uunet!wupost!sdd.hp.com!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!bronze!anachem From: anachem@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (mark s gilstrap) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Shattering Assault [part 2] Message-ID: <1991Aug8.171545.16358@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> Date: 8 Aug 91 17:15:45 GMT Organization: Indiana University, Bloomington Lines: 135 <<< PRISM::$3$DUA42:[NOTES$LIBRARY]ORTHODOX.NOTE;4 >>> -< ARCHANGEL MICHAEL RUSSIAN ORTHODOX STUDENT ASSOCIATION >- ================================================================================ Note 11.0 "UFO's: the 'Shattering Assault'" No replies AMBER::GILSTRAP 252 lines 7-MAY-1990 14:28 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- UFO's: The "Shattering Assault" PART 2 by Father Alexey Young 'Orthodox America' issue #88 transcribed and posted with the permission of the publisher No Orthodox Christian even slightly versed in the lives of the saints and the writings of the Holy Fathers can fail to understand what is happening here. The similarities between Streiber's experiences (and those of other UFO "contactees") and the demonic warfare of the saints is compelling. The author himself even describes peculiar smells associated with his "visitors" -- among them, a "sulfur-like" odor which he compares to the head of a matchstick. His "visitors" have frightening, insect-like heads with enormous eyes that he associates with statues of the pagan goddess Ishtar. In 'Transformation' he writes: "I felt an absolutely indescribable sense of menace. It was hell on earth to be there, and yet I couldn't move, couldn't cry out, and couldn't get away. I lay as still as death, suffering inner agonies. Whatever was there seemed so monstrously ugly, so filthy and dark and sinister ... I still remember that thing crouching there, so terribly ugly, its arms and legs like limbs of a great insect, its eyes glaring at me." In his second book Streiber concludes that many of the "close encounters" he has had (and is still having) are for the purpose of "shattering my belief in the accepted paradigm of reality. And it succeeded very well ... I suspect that experiences such as [these] are the outcomes of a fundamental shift of mind. They are what happens when people begin to abandon the old, *false* beliefs..." Truer words were never spoken. Although Streiber now believes that his "visitors" are extra- terrestrials and have a physical reality, he also calls them "goblins" and "soul-eaters," who have the "ability to enter the mind and affect thought," and much, much worse. He writes: "Increasingly I felt as if I were entering a struggle that might be a struggle *for my soul*, my essence, or whatever part of me might have reference to the eternal...It was clear that the soul was very much at issue. People [have] experienced feeling as if their souls were being dragged from their bodies. More than one person had seen the visitors in the context of a near-death experience." In spite of all this, Streiber's delusion is so great that he can enthusiastically say that "it is up to each one of us to seek our own contact [with the 'visitors'], develop it if it occurs, and challenge ourselves to use it for...spiritual growth..." By contrast, Bishop Ignatius Brianchaninov wrote a century ago: "The perception of spirits with the eyes of sense always brings harm, sometimes greater and sometimes less, to men who do not have spiritual perception...He will unfailingly be deceived, he will unfailingly be attracted, he will unfailingly be sealed with the seal of deception...the seal of a frightful injury to his spirit; and further, the possibility of correction and salvation is often lost. This has happened with many, very many. It has happened not only with pagans, whose priests were for the most part in open *communion* with demons; it has happened not only with many Christians who do not know the mysteries of Christianity..' it has [also] happened with many strugglers and monks..." (quoted in 'The Soul After Death', Fr. Seraphim Rose, p.68) When he wasn't "seeing" them, Streiber nonetheless frequently "heard" their voices, "as if from a small speaker just to the right of my head." Without any difficulty at all he saw that this was similar to the pagan oracles of old: "the oracles at Delphi and many other places in the ancient world were channels answering questions in trance...With the rise of Christianity the voice died...So the voice I was hearing, as also the voices heard by modern channels, was possessed by an ancient and lofty human heritage...I was still well within the tradition of human experience." Streiber also speaks of psychic gifts that suddenly appear, unbidden, in people who have UFO experiences: "precognition, apparent telepathy, out-of-the-body perceptions, and even physical levitation. Such people often find street lights mysteriously shutting down as they walk down the street. (One wonders if he had ever seen the 1950's film about modern-day witchcraft, 'Bell, Book, and Candle', in which a novice warlock is able to turn out the street lights as he passes by.) Streiber concludes benignly; "I do not think we have even begun to comprehend the visitors. I suspect that we are a lot farther from understanding them than we are from understanding , say, the songs of the whales..." But Fr. Seraphim wrote: "Such stories of demonic activity were commonplace in earlier centuries. It is a sign of the spiritual crisis of today that modern men, for all their proud 'enlightenment' and 'wisdom' are becoming once more aware of such experiences -- but no longer have the Christian framwork with which to explain them...A true evaluation of UFO experiences may be made only on the basis of Christian revelation and experience, and it is accessible only to the humble Christian believer who trusts these sources" (Orthodoxy and the Religion of the Future, pps 137-138). Ever since the phenomenally successful movies, 'Close Encounters' and 'E.T.'(just rereleased on video), we have seen a resurgence of interest in UFO phenomena. It will doubtless continue to grow as Christianity wanes in the West and people instead tune their ears to very ancient "voices", once stilled by the Son of God. The Orthodox Christian, however must hold on to the redemption offered by Christ, for as Fr. Seraphim wrote, "he knows that man is not to 'evolve' into 'something higher', nor has he any reason to believe that there are 'highly evolved' beings on other planets; but he knows well that there are indeed ' advanced intelligences' in the universe besides himself: these are of two kinds, and he strives to live so as to dwell with those who serve God (the angels) and avoid contact with the others who have rejected God (the demons)...he distrusts his own ability to see through the deceptions of the demons, and therefore clings all the more firmly to the Scriptural and Patristic guidelines which the Church of Christ provides for his life...."(Orthodoxy and the religion of the Future, pps. 144-145). O Archangel of God, leave us not defenseless against the spirits of evil in the upper air! from the prayer to St Michael the Archangel [patron of Archangel Michael Russian Orthodox Student Association] written by Father Alexey Young published by Orthodox America Vol IX, #8 (issue 88), March 89 available from GOLD::GILSTRAP or by subscription from: P.O.Box 2132, Redding CA., 96099 notes by transcriber set off by [...] Path: ns-mx!uunet!wupost!sdd.hp.com!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!bronze!anachem From: anachem@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (mark s gilstrap) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Shattering Assault [part 1] Summary: more words of warning Message-ID: <1991Aug8.171304.16179@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> Date: 8 Aug 91 17:13:04 GMT Organization: Indiana University, Bloomington Lines: 139 <<< PRISM::$3$DUA42:[NOTES$LIBRARY]ORTHODOX.NOTE;4 >>> -< ARCHANGEL MICHAEL RUSSIAN ORTHODOX STUDENT ASSOCIATION >- ================================================================================ Note 11.0 "UFO's: the 'Shattering Assault'" No replies AMBER::GILSTRAP 252 lines 7-MAY-1990 14:28 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- UFO's: The "Shattering Assault" PART 1 by Father Alexey Young 'Orthodox America' issue #88 transcribed and posted with the permission of the publisher "Let no man deceive you by any means...." II Thess.2:3 It is no coincidence that the ancient pagan mystery religions as well as numerous mystical fraternities (such as the Theosophists and Rosicrucians) speak of an "elite" --sometimes called "the Great White Brotherhood," the "Ascended Masters," or the "Mahatmas" of Madame Blavatsky -- a group of beings seeking to guide and control the destiny of mortal man. Sometimes this "elite" is seen as non-human, at other times as "highly evolved" or perfected humans. [transcriber's note: the respondents in the FORUM topic "ORACLES" refer to their "higher power" guides] The ancestor of this "elite" is the 'daimon' of the ancient pagan Greeks - from which, in fact, we get the word "demon," and which prompted the Holy Fathers to say that "the gods of the pagans are demons". [from the Psalter] Thus, from the Christian point of view, there can be no doubt that such an invisible "elite" exists, and is known to the followers of Christ as the army of fallen angels, the demonic host. This host enters into our fallen world through sin and heresy, as well as by occult practices of all kinds (from apparently "innocent" things such as ouija boards to the New Age practice of "channeling")[see FORUM topic "ORACLES" for a local selection]. Now however, fallen angels have found a new and particularly dazzling way to enter the world of men. Whereas a generation ago only "cranks" and the mentally/emotionally distressed believed in UFOs, today more than half the population of the US, according to surveys, accepts the reality of alien visitors. In particular, "many New Agers believe in unidentified flying objects," according to Time, "crewed by oddly shaped extraterrestrials who have long visited the earth from more advanced planets, spreading the wisdom that created, among other things, Stonehenge and the pyramids of Egypt." Although UFO literature is proliferous, the most respected and listened-to UFO "convert" is Whitley Streiber, who has written two recent books on his own experiences, 'Communion: A True Story' (1987) and its sequel, 'Transformation: A Breakthrough' (1988). Both books have been on the best seller list and the author has appeared in numerous television interviews, partly because he writes well and has consulted many members of the scientific community. Although Streiber says that he was never before interested in UFOs and had read practically nothing on the subject, "this is the story," he writes in the first book, "of one man's attempt to deal with a shattering assault from the unknown. It is a true story, as true as I know how to describe it. To all appearances I have had an elaborate personal encounter with intelligent nonhuman beings. But who could they be, and where have they come from? Are unidentified flying objects real? Are they goblins or demons ... or visitors?" Beginning in December 1985 Streiber and his family experienced a whole series of dream-like lights, voices, touchings and "night visitors" with bug-like heads. "At first," he said, "I thought I was losing my mind. But I was interviewed by three psychologists and three psychiatrists and given a battery of psychological tests and a neurological examination, and found to fall within the normal range in all respects. I was given a polygraph .. and I passed without qualification ...The visitors marched right into the middle of the life of an indifferent skeptic without a moment's hesitation." The fact that Streiber's first book 'Communion' also contains official medical statements as to his normalcy and sanity, as well as transcripts of hypnotic sessions (used to focus details of his experiences) and that he acknowledges by name the help of prominent scientists in many fields, adds to the veracious tone of his frightening story. Streiber speculates that his "visitors" could be: 1) "from another planet or planets; 2) "from earth, but so different from us that we have not hitherto understood that they were even real; 3) "from another aspect of space-time -- another dimension; 4) "from this dimension in space but not in time" -- in otherwords, time-travel by our own descendants into their own past (our present); 5) "from within us; 6) "a certain hallucinatory wire in the mind, or 7) "an aspect of the human species" -- perhaps ghosts or, better yet, "maybe you and I are larvae, and the 'visitors' are human beings in the mature form." What makes Streiber's account so compelling is his apparent objectivity: he projects himself as an innocent bystander, in no way responsible for this bizarre encounter. Beyond the pages of these books, however, one discovers that Streiber is also the author of several horro stories, which contain similarities to his real-life experience. As one critic pointed out: " 'Communion' seems like the end of a logical progression leading from the fiction side of the bestseller list to the non-fiction side" (Thomas Dirch in 'The Nation', March 14, 1987). What is even more revealing, Streiber studied for 15 years with the Gurdjieff Foundation, a cultish group whose teaching stresses "the development of powers latent in the human psche," and whose spiritual eclecticism is popular among today's New Agers. Obviously, Streiber's role was not as passive as he would lead his readers to believe; he had -- unknowingly, no doubt -- predisposed himself to cooperate with such an experience. And one can more readily understand why the 'aliens' told him: "You are our chosen one." Although he brings a diverse array of ideas and theories from world religion and philosophy to bear on his subject -- everything from Hindu mythology to the warefare of St Anthony the Great with demons -- religion and God in the traditional sense are conspicuously absent from his thinking and he comes down in favor of the popular modern idea that SCIENCE is the only "key" -- if still primitive -- to understanding these experiences. But, as Hieromonk Seraphim (Rose) wrote in his study of UFOs (in 'Orthodoxy and the Religion of the Future'): "Science fiction has given the images,'evolution' has produced the philosophy, and the technology of the 'space age' has supplied the plausibility for such encounters". Rather than a boundless thirst for God, we have instead a "great thirst for contact with superior minds that will provide guidance for our poor, harassed, hectic, planet" (Jaques Vallee, quoted in ORF, p.138). Indeed Streiber is himself a fervent environmentalist with an apocalyptic sense of the destruction man is bringing upon his little earth-home. What is clear in Streiber's books is that mind or thought control is being exercised on the human race by these "visitors" in a way that can only be described in the classic sense as occult. The Orthodox reader is chilled when, at one point, the author discovers that he can "call up" these "visitors" at will and experience a kind of "communion" with them (thus, the title of his first book) in a manner that is clearly mediumistic. to be continued in PART 2 Path: ns-mx!uunet!pmafire! From: jeffl@servprod.inel.gov (Jeff Later) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: saucer symbols references Message-ID: <1991Aug08.164413.624@pmafire.inel.gov> Date: 8 Aug 91 16:44:13 GMT References: <1991Aug7.134131.17818@vicorp.com> Sender: J.B. Later Organization: WINCO Lines: 23 In article <1991Aug7.134131.17818@vicorp.com> mc@vicorp.UUCP (Mark Charalambous) writes: >Does anyone know of any resources which contain pictures or descriptions >of any symbols purported to be seen inside UFOs or on UFO retrieved >material? For instance, the symbols said to be have seen inside the >Roswell saucer. Not only that, but it would be interesting to know IF any of these symbols and or pictures have any correlation or similarity to some of the "wild" crop circle symbols being "created" around the world!! JBL ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Jeff B. Later WB7TZA (jeffl@pmafire.inel.gov) Later's Law Of Social Dynamics: "For Every Action, There Is An Opposite and UNequal OVEReaction!" {8^) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ****************"Disclaimer, Disclaimer, where's my lawyer!"***************** ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Path: ns-mx!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!sei.cmu.edu!fs7.ece.cmu.edu!crabapple.srv.cs.cmu.edu!andrew.cmu.edu!cs49+ From: cs49+@andrew.cmu.edu (Christopher J. Shields) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Yo! Needles/Communion & Shit Message-ID: Date: 8 Aug 91 17:39:51 GMT Organization: Senior, Design, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA Lines: 31 Whoa! Maybe I'm outta line here but people have been posting stuff that I just can't agree with... 1> "Communion" as a movie SUCKED cinematography-wise and somewhat story wise. Yes it was very much "here's my story, take it or leave it", But Peter Weller did a really lousy job and I didn't get the ending ( no, not the part about Strieber communicating with the aliens, the part with the masks and the Grey who takes half his face off, What the Fuck? ). I felt the book was better and that Transformation was more informative. 2> Strieber had an MRI .....NOT a Cat Scan like people have been saying. This was reported in a year-old or so issue of OMNI ( I can't remember the date but I do remember the article ) A white spot showed up on his MRI around the area of his optic nerve. This could be an alien implant or it could be an air bubble. In the movie the needle was inserted in his ear yet in the book it was inserted into his left nostril. The book makes more sense. Bud Hopkins was quoted as saying in the issue of Omni that it would be virtually impossible to remove the 2mm implant that Strieber claims to have. 3> If space is infinite what the fuck makes us the only/most advanced intellegence in the universe? NOT! 4> THEY haven't disproved alien intellegence exsists. Just kinda ina bitchy mood, comments by e-mail please, sorry about typos, all flames ignored, have a nice day...... Peace, c.shields Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!news.iastate.edu!sharkey!tygra!dave From: dave@tygra.Michigan.COM (David Conrad) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Great Pyramid part 4 Summary: Whoa! Wait a minute! Message-ID: <1991Aug8.102644.2031@tygra.Michigan.COM> Date: 8 Aug 91 10:26:44 GMT References: <1991Aug1.084244.15184@ambra.dk> <1991Aug2.182153.10981@sun.pcl.ac.uk> <91214.161939HARVEY@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> Organization: CAT-TALK Conferencing System, Detroit, MI Lines: 29 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:1596 alt.paranormal:2416 sci.skeptic:13605 In article <91214.161939HARVEY@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> HARVEY@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU writes: >>>JOHNFW@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU writes: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>>> The base of our Pyramid was 765 feet square. The total height was >>>>486 feet. The entrance way was located exactly 534 feet above the base >>>>on the north side and constructed in such a manner that the light of >>>>[...] Various comments deleted...and then: >Well if you want to *TRY* to make it work. I see it as 765 feet on a side >with a vertical height of 486 feet that leaves about 622 feet for the >length of the vertical side. So, 534 feet up the side is still legit 8:) > >Harold M. Harvey Harvey@slacvm.slac.stanford.edu ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Stanford Linear Accelerator Center (415)926-2389 9-6 M-F Pacific >The views expressed here are mine. (415)534-5961 Interesting address, especially for a JOHNFW apologist. Either you're our "JOHNFW" or you work where he does, so either 'fess up or find this guy and tell us if he's for real. David R. Conrad, dave@michigan.com -- = CAT-TALK Conferencing Network, Computer Conferencing and File Archive = - 1-313-343-0800, 300/1200/2400/9600 baud, 8/N/1. New users use 'new' - = as a login id. AVAILABLE VIA PC-PURSUIT!!! (City code "MIDET") = E-MAIL Address: dave@Michigan.COM Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!news.iastate.edu!sharkey!tygra!dave From: dave@tygra.Michigan.COM (David Conrad) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: A Solar Tour part#4 Message-ID: <1991Aug8.104256.2262@tygra.Michigan.COM> Date: 8 Aug 91 10:42:56 GMT References: <91214.073744JOHNFW@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> Organization: CAT-TALK Conferencing System, Detroit, MI Lines: 28 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:1597 alt.paranormal:2417 sci.skeptic:13606 In article <91214.073744JOHNFW@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> JOHNFW@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU writes: >...inductrial progaress... >...spacectaft... >...representes...natuare... >...apearance... You would think he would at least bother to spell check this stuff. >...and at the poles, as our craft approaches, a lovely green area >where a city of scintillating splendor greets our eyes. Mars has polar ice caps, eh. >I'll leave you with this saying; A father that has a smart son believes in >heredity. Oooh, he's got a fortune program! >Standard Disclaimer. >John. "Some ignorance is invincible." David R. Conrad, dave@michigan.com -- = CAT-TALK Conferencing Network, Computer Conferencing and File Archive = - 1-313-343-0800, 300/1200/2400/9600 baud, 8/N/1. New users use 'new' - = as a login id. AVAILABLE VIA PC-PURSUIT!!! (City code "MIDET") = E-MAIL Address: dave@Michigan.COM Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!ukc!edcastle!helium!cam From: cam@aifh.ed.ac.uk (Chris Malcolm) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Answer to how life got started on Earth. Message-ID: <1991Aug8.183955.24388@aifh.ed.ac.uk> Date: 8 Aug 91 18:39:55 GMT References: <1991Aug6.142140.27984@aifh.ed.ac.uk> Reply-To: cam@aifh.ed.ac.uk (Chris Malcolm) Organization: Dept AI, Edinburgh University, Scotland Lines: 28 >cam@aifh.ed.ac.uk (Chris Malcolm) writes: > >> In article <1991Aug6.001828.26671@latcs1.lat.oz.au> stephens@ipc1.lat.oz.au ( >> > Finally, give us the latest estimate on how probable it was for the first >> >replicating molecule to evolve in a single step. >> >> Since nobody thinks this happened, what is your interest in knowing the >> probability? >> > Actually, I don't know how a self replicating molecule could evolve in >MULTIPLE steps, because I would assume that evolution requires some form of >replication. You said it yourself -- evolution requires *some* form of replication. *Self* replication is a particular kind of replication. There's plenty of books and papers out there, including back numbers of Scientific American, dealing with step-by-step evolution starting with naturally produced stable-in-context chemicals and forms, through various forms of replication, up to self-replication. The topic is general evolution, i.e., evolution as it applies to naturally occurring non-replicating non-living systems. Typically these are systems inhabiting an energy gradient. -- Chris Malcolm cam@uk.ac.ed.aipna +44 (0)31 667 1011 x2550 Department of Artificial Intelligence, Edinburgh University 5 Forrest Hill, Edinburgh, EH1 2QL, UK DoD #205 Path: ns-mx!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!hplabs!hpfcso!hpgrla!kelvinf From: kelvinf@hpgrla.gr.hp.com (Kelvin Fedrick) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ha! Message-ID: <15230003@hpgrla.gr.hp.com> Date: 7 Aug 91 21:26:21 GMT References: <1991Aug03.014554.1086@disk.uucp> Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Greeley, CO Lines: 156 [Shawn's rather long winded posting on life, the universe and everything] Oh good grief. Where do I start? First of all, I HATE hypocrits, especially when they try to hold themselves up as something more than the rest of us. First point, Shawn, is that your posted beliefs have all the necessary elements of any religion. You have your unprovable items of faith: 1. [I beleive the earth has been visited by other intelligent races...] 2. [I beleive that the human mind is capable of anything, even without tools and science...] In (2) you merely substitute some type of unexplained, unproved, pseudo- scientific, mystical, borderline divine powers for god, gods, demons, etc.. You diagnose "man's condition" and the state the method of his "salvation". 1. [We were afraid of change, afraid of the unknown.] 2. [again, it's our subconcious training, our religion and superstition that holds us back.] 3. [Everything we have developed so far has for the most part been to cure us of the side effects of our false beliefs.] 4. [If you are only willing to open your eyes, you will see.] paraphrase: open your eyes and believe as I do, switch to my 'religion'. 5. [We have to cut through the religion, and soon.] You have your selectivity criterion: [There is a new breed in the young people today. A select few have been able to realize that we have to look at things truly objectively.] Sound familiar? Maybe a little like, many are called and few are chosen? You have your reward for the faithful and punishment for infidels: [ For some people, the brimstone will fall, and the fires of hell will burn them, and they will hallucinate that they are going to wherever there religion tells them they will. But maybe us few who can change will see this "End" for what it really is, a new beginning. Perhaps we will be able to witness the birth of a whole new world, a whole new life, a whole new reality.] Shawn, nothing, NOTHING in your posting has any sustance, any proof, or anything tangible to it at all and thus qualifies it as your religious dogma. It is fine that you have your religious belief but it pisses me off when people imply that others who who have conflicting beliefs are ignorant. Now lets look at a few of the other non-sensical illogical, items you included in this post. Lots of this is out of order and out of context be I believe that I retained the flavor and implications of the posting. >At first, religion incorporated all the visits and phenomenon into their >scriptures. > >Nowadays, religion, beleif groups, and culture have totally covered up >these visits, to the point where people who have the potential to learn >and be aware of all around them ignore even the simplest of facts, because >they don't fit into their critereon of reality. ^^^^^ Facts, Shawn? WHAT facts!? All we have here is Genesis according to Shawn, and yet you are criticizing people for denying the 'reality' of alien visitations which you provide ABSOLUTELY NO evidents for, AND accusing them of organizing a coverup. Geez! >We have to look through the myth, and realize that the same voice has been >muffled all through our history! First of all this presumes that traditional (christian I assume) beliefs ARE myths and your alien visitation is NOT a myth. Second, if ANY voice has indeed been muffled, you fail to prove that YOUR version of history IS what has been muffled. To me there is no compelling reason to accept one over the other; both are hard to swallow. This is why I have no problem with anyone who simply doesn't believe in any of these myths AND who doesn't try to SUBSTITUTE myths of their own. >Our science has helped us evolve, and our curiousity has led us to great >hights, but the time has come to accept the world as it is. and again later, >We have to accept the universe as it is, unbiased and ready to learn >things we may not think we are ready for. What the hell does this mean 'accept the universe as it is', and why do you think we are not now accepting the universe as it is? I think what you really mean here is 'accept the universe as *I* say it is'. Furthermore, WHAT is it that 'we think we are not ready for' that we should be ready to learn? The part about being 'unbias' strikes me as really funny and very indicitive of the hypocrisy of this entire posting. After writing nearly an entire posting of un-supported, wild speculation, you tell US that we should be unbiased, as if you are. Ha! >We have to be ready to evolve. For a while now humans have been devolving. >Our machines and medicine and some of our technology have just made it more >difficult to realize our potential. I take it this is another BS reference to some type of pseudo-scientific, mystical, power. >Some people go to work with the aim of proving that their studies support >their religion. Others go out to disprove others theories and improve >their own. But we have to set out to seek the truth simply for the fact >that it is the truth. No Shawn. In the scientific method people approach an experiment with a HYPOTHESIS. They then perform the experiment in order to see if it supports there hypothesis. If their hypothesis happens to have religious implications and the experiment supports the hypothesis and those religious implications then, as you said earlier, we must be 'unbiased' enough to accept them, or propose alternate explainations and gather support for those explainations. Despite what you seem to think, this is a well established method of 'seeking the truth'. What alternative method would YOU propose one use to go about 'seeking the truth'? How can one 'seek the truth' without having some prior hypothesis (belief) about what the 'truth' is? >I beleive science can explain everything, if we make science fit the truth, >not bend the truth to fit science. Ah, Shawn, this makes absolutely NO sense. Please explain to me how anyone can 'bend the truth to fit science'? By definition, if I show something to be truth scientifically, not just find 100 peices of evidents to support it (because the 101st peice could show the explaination to be flawed) but PROVE it, then it IS the truth. And finally, >But that's an [Shawn's] OPINION. You bet. And there are others who have different opinions, some falling along traditional religious lines. It is hypocritical of you to criticize others for what you consider foolish beliefs on the bases that those people cannot prove or support their claims, and then to try to substitute your equally increadible, unsupported, unproved claims. Nuff said. -Kelvin fedrick@tigger.colorado.edu Path: ns-mx!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!hplabs!hpfcso!hpgrla!kelvinf From: kelvinf@hpgrla.gr.hp.com (Kelvin Fedrick) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Alien spacecraft to be displayed? [Forwarded from sci.astro] Message-ID: <15230002@hpgrla.gr.hp.com> Date: 7 Aug 91 16:01:44 GMT References: <2172@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de> Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Greeley, CO Lines: 37 In alt.alien.visitors, ddaye@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (David C Daye) writes: >In article <1991Aug6.160911.13402@cadence.com> jdm@cadence.com, >(Joe Mastroianni) writes: >>I still find it difficult to believe that beings capable of intersteller >>multidimensional or whatever else , travel, would choose to deal directly >>with the U.S.government. This does not compute. >It may depend on what you're computing. I think of 2 possibilities in >response to the standard question of "If they're coming here, why haven't >they contacted us formally?" >1) Have you ever "contacted" the ants? >2) I have the impression that we do "contact" apes fairly regularly. Sorry I agree with Joe. Ants are incapable of language, ants are not, as I remember, regarded as being capable of internal representations. While apes may be regarded as having some fundamentals of language we still are still more *evolutionarily* advanced; our brains can do things that they are *physically* incapable of. If such aliens existed, and if such artifacts as you say existed, there is absolutely no way to deduce from this evidence that such aliens would necessarily be more advanced on the *evolutionary* scale. Technologically yes, but not fundamentally. Remember, we are probably not any more intelligent now than we were 10,000 years ago but look at the technological advances we have make. I don't think your 'we're to puny for them to bother with' argument works. Furthermore, I have a very hard time beleiving that the US government is capable of keeping a secret as big as a warehouse of alien spaceships, electronic communication with alien societies and the like. I also think you give the NSA and CIA to much credit for having the technological sophistication to do such things while no-one else has been able to. - Kelvin Path: ns-mx!uunet!bu.edu!nntp-xfer.bu.edu!bradski From: bradski@polar.bu.edu (Gary Bradski) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal Subject: Re: Answer to how life got started on Earth. Message-ID: Date: 8 Aug 91 20:04:30 GMT References: <91191.083839JOHNFW@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> <1991Jul12.205856.26896@bony1.bony.com> <1991Aug3.170949.19919@hobbes.kzoo.edu> <1991Aug6.120038.17853@ujocs.joensuu.fi> Sender: news@bu.edu Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors Organization: Boston University Center for Adaptive Systems Lines: 36 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:1601 sci.skeptic:13613 alt.paranormal:2419 In-reply-to: asiivo@ujocs.joensuu.fi's message of 6 Aug 91 12:00:38 GMT > The reason why the missing links are so hard to find is that there are > no such links at all. A lot of skeletons of apes and people have been > found, but no 'links' between them, we must come to a conclusion that, > simply, there are no such links. > Andreas Well, the number of humaniod skeletons is actually quite skimpy...but I too suspect that there may not be any links to find. But this does not imply any space alien nonsense...simply that evolutionary mechanisms are not well understood yet. It may well be that various species represent semi-stable points or cycles in a genetic dynamical system, and that these stable points are subject sudden changes in mode if perturbed enough. Thus evolution may preceed in jumps between stable states. See this months Scientific American for boolean systems (inspired from ideas about DNA) that exhibit such phenonema. -- @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ --------------- Gary Bradski I'net: bradski@park.bu.edu | reverberate | Cognitive and Neural Systems --------------- Boston University. | V V 111 Cummington St, Boston MA 02215 ^ Y 617/ 353-6426 ^ ^ | -------------- I don't even agree with some of my opinions | or die! | @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ -------------- Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!m.cs.uiuc.edu!vela!dlcogswe From: dlcogswe@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Dan Cogswell) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: new reader Keywords: hello Message-ID: <8775@vela.acs.oakland.edu> Date: 8 Aug 91 01:15:22 GMT References: Organization: Oakland University, Rochester MI. Lines: 29 wb9omc@dynamo.ecn.purdue.edu (Duane P Mantick) writes: >What do YOU think happened at Roswell and do you think there may indeed >be other worlds with a form of life at *least* as intelligent as our own? First off: something *did* crash near Roswell. *What* crashed is up-for-grabs. With the evidence the public has on it, it's really the opinion of the investigator that makes the decision. A lot of the testimony of cited witnesses can be written off. It happened 44 years ago. People have a strange tendency to sensationalize and mis-identify something that they don't understand. In other words, judging by the actions of the government, as well as a lot of testimony given, you may as well flip a coin: "heads" it's a UFO; "tails" it's a Fugo. At least that's what you could decide based on judging the actions of the government. If the government came forward and said, "It was a Fugo and here's the remains of it..." that doesn't prove anything. They could be faking it. The only way to settle it is to come out and say, "It was a UFO and here it is..." if that's what happened. In my opinion, however, it was a UFO. As far as intelligence on other worlds: if life developped only 10,000 years sooner on another planet (which is nothing in terms of evolution) they would be significantly more advanced than we are. That seems plausible to me. >Duane -- Dan Cogswell dlcogswe@vela.acs.oakland.edu Mostly H20 and whatever pizza and Diet Pepsi digest into Path: ns-mx!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!unixhub!slacvm!harvey From: HARVEY@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Great Pyramid part 4 Message-ID: <91220.130729HARVEY@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> Date: 8 Aug 91 21:07:29 GMT References: <1991Aug1.084244.15184@ambra.dk> <1991Aug2.182153.10981@sun.pcl.ac.uk> <91214.161939HARVEY@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> <1991Aug8.102644.2031@tygra.Michigan.COM> Organization: Stanford Linear Accelerator Center Lines: 42 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:1603 alt.paranormal:2420 sci.skeptic:13614 In article <1991Aug8.102644.2031@tygra.Michigan.COM>, dave@tygra.Michigan.COM (David Conrad) says: > >In article <91214.161939HARVEY@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> >HARVEY@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU writes: >>>>JOHNFW@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU writes: > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>>>> The base of our Pyramid was 765 feet square. The total height was >>>>>486 feet. The entrance way was located exactly 534 feet above the base >>>>>on the north side and constructed in such a manner that the light of >>>>>[...] > >Various comments deleted...and then: > >>Well if you want to *TRY* to make it work. I see it as 765 feet on a side >>with a vertical height of 486 feet that leaves about 622 feet for the >>length of the vertical side. So, 534 feet up the side is still legit 8:) >> >>Harold M. Harvey Harvey@slacvm.slac.stanford.edu > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>Stanford Linear Accelerator Center (415)926-2389 9-6 M-F Pacific >>The views expressed here are mine. (415)534-5961 > >Interesting address, especially for a JOHNFW apologist. Either you're >our "JOHNFW" or you work where he does, so either 'fess up or find this >guy and tell us if he's for real. > >David R. Conrad, dave@michigan.com >-- The address is only interesting because we both work at the same lab. John is a real, genuine and honest person. I don't agree with him on much but I don't discount his arguments just because of his spelling. Some people believe, and the logic of a believer can never be understood by a non-believer or should be. Maybe I will show him how to use spellfix. Harold M. Harvey Harvey@slacvm.slac.stanford.edu Stanford Linear Accelerator Center (415)926-2389 9-6 M-F The views expressed here are mine. (415)534-5961 Path: ns-mx!uunet!van-bc!ubc-cs!mprgate.mpr.ca!mprgate.mpr.ca!spani From: spani@mprgate.mpr.ca (Leonard Spani) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Communion question Keywords: communion Message-ID: <1991Aug8.193804.15964@mprgate.mpr.ca> Date: 8 Aug 91 19:38:04 GMT References: Sender: news@mprgate.mpr.ca Organization: MPR Teltech Ltd., Burnaby, B.C., Canada Lines: 63 In article , ewf2@ra.MsState.Edu (Juice S. Aaron) writes: |> |> A few months ago I picked up and read the vast majority of |> the book called Communion. What the book had to say |> was quite interesting and sometimes somewhat shocking |> for me. I spent many a night wondering if big ugly |> aliens with spindly arms would come waltzing down my |> hall (or if they already had and I just didn't remember |> it.) Then I heard that there was a movie based on |> the book and after waiting millenia for it to be |> released on video was able to watch it. |> I noticed that the screenplay for the movie was |> written by Streiber himself so I thought |> we'll get the real picture that was presented in |> the book. Now I watched the movie and afterwards |> I found myself wondering if it was actually true to the |> book. Several minor little things were changed, (such |> as the gender of the psychiatrist he went to) but nothing |> major seemed out of place until the scene near the end with |> the aliens in suit coats and the strangeness that went on then. |> I seem to remember the movie having something really |> out of place near the end that involved the aliens |> dressed up like humans who removed their faces to show |> human faces under them. I don't seem to remember that |> from the book. (Not to say it wasn't in the book as I |> didn't read some bits of the book as well as I read other |> bits) |> Did the movie stick to the book or did streiber take |> liberties with his own supposedly true story? |> |> JSA I believe that Communion (the movie) included some material from Streiber's Communion (book) sequel: Transformation. The strangeness continued after Communion (the book) was published, and if anything, got a little stranger. It has been a while since I read Transformation, but I seem to remember the "alien wearing a suit" part. I think I understand why you say you read "the vast majority of the book called Communion". I had a heck of a time wading through the last chapter or so where Streiber presents his theories about what has been happening to him. It seemed to me that he was grasping around trying desperately to find some kind of meaning to it all. He changes his theories around in Transformation, but they still have a sense of desperation (IMO of course). In Transformation, Streiber presents new material and tries to deal with some of the questions raised by Communion, he also decided to release some of the more bizarre material that he was "coerced" into leaving out of Communion. My memory is not infalible, but I beleive that it was Budd Hopkins who suggested that Steiber leave out the really weird material because Hopkins thought that it would destroy Streiber's credibility (and it also didn't fit into Hopkins' pet theory). Transformation was written after Streiber and Hopkins had their falling out. I think that Communmion (the movie) was made some time inbetween the falling out with Hopkins and the writing of Transformation. Leonard Spani Path: ns-mx!uunet!orca!javelin.sim.es.com!pashdown From: pashdown@javelin.sim.es.com (Pete Ashdown) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal,sci.skeptic,alt.slack Subject: A Solar tour #6 Keywords: Saturn Message-ID: <1991Aug8.202534.16794@javelin.sim.es.com> Date: 8 Aug 91 20:25:34 GMT Organization: Evans & Sutherland Computer Corp., Salt Lake City, Utah Lines: 25 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:1605 alt.paranormal:2421 sci.skeptic:13615 alt.slack:947 (Funky Speaking) As we leave the mighty Jupiter, we come upon Saturn. This is a beautiful planet with a beautiful ring constructed of solid plutonium. The peoples of Saturn are true party pigs, they bring us to their plush houses filled with shag carpet and Greek plaster statues. For many centuries the Saturnians have been living in a state of inebriation, for they are the mightiest party pigs this side of the Rigelan empire. They can teach us much about having a good time. Trying to relocate to this beer bucket is difficult, for the remaining real estate has been taken up by strip joints and discos. The Saturnians are gracious hosts though, filling our space junket with the finest Nitrous Oxide Beer kegs. I will leave you with this saying: A beer in the hand is better than a beer in the beer case. Standard Disclaimer. Jon -- "I've got contacts in my books and in my eyes. My good connection on the telephone never lies." DISCLAIMER: My writings have NOTHING to do with my employer. Keep it that way. Pete Ashdown pashdown@javelin.sim.es.com ...uunet!javelin.sim.es.com!pashdown Path: ns-mx!uunet!crdgw1!ge-dab!tarpit!bilver!dona From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy Subject: OH Krill intro/README Message-ID: <1991Aug8.054517.24157@bilver.uucp> Date: 8 Aug 91 05:45:17 GMT Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL Lines: 49 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:1606 alt.conspiracy:6543 O. H. Krill (Krll) Intro: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Aside from the William Milton Cooper material, these 4 files are considered to be highly controversial in the field of UFOlogy. The "author" of this work, "O. H. Krill" is believed to have been a joint effort of John Grace and John Lear. As the story goes, this file was put together (according to sources close to John Lear) to "smoke out the dis-informants in the field". For many of us who have been into this field for awhile, this file is held in low esteem. Discussions by UFO "newbies" on this text has often degenerated into vast flame wars on the various UFO "echoes" of the BBS world, as there might be some truth in it and possibly a bit of BS. I will leave it up to you to sort out which is which. If there is such a thing as a "black sheep" of a UFO text, then *this* file would easily qualify. These files are a bit large so I will give you the size info here: (All sizes minus message headers) Krill part 1: 30241 bytes Krill part 2: 16852 bytes Krill part 3: 36486 bytes Krill part 4: 42679 bytes ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Please note: I only post these files to educate people what is currently available. They are for informational purposes only and as such, should NOT be taken at face value. There is NO substitute for research and investigation. If you want to ridicule the information, fine...but I draw the line at personal slams, so please do yourselves a favor and avoid ad homenim attacks and we will get along fine. Let's endeavor to be a notch above the sci.skeptics and alt.paranormal obnoxiousness :-) As a rule, I try to avoid any editorilizing and pretty much leave it up to you to do with as you see fit. Don -- -* Don Allen *- InterNet: dona@bilver.UUCP // Amiga..for the best of us. USnail: 1818G Landing Dr, Sanford Fl 32771 \X/ Why use anything else? :-) UUCP: ..uunet!tarpit!bilver!vicstoy!dona 0110 0110 0110 Just say NO! Illuminati < MJ-12|Greys|TLC|CFR|FED|Bilderbergs > UN = "New World Order" Path: ns-mx!uunet!crdgw1!ge-dab!tarpit!bilver!dona From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy Subject: FILE: OH Krill part 1 Message-ID: <1991Aug8.054852.24246@bilver.uucp> Date: 8 Aug 91 05:48:52 GMT Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL Lines: 598 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:1607 alt.conspiracy:6544 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This information is presented for your persusal and is a continuation of my policy of informing the public what is currently available. The content of this information does NOT necessarily reflect the personal views of the poster,nor should the views,opinions,statements or claims represented in the following be accepted by anyone reading these texts at *face* value. If this interests you, please endeavor to research it yourself and investigate it to *your* satisfaction, and as such I will leave it in your hands to either prove it or de-bunk it :-) As I do not have a great amount of time available to pursue follow-ups exclusively, comments to me should be directed to dona@bilver.uucp in mail. --------------------------------------------------------------------- --------Krill part 1 ----------------------------------------------------------- **************** * CONFIDENTIAL * **************** A SITUATION REPORT ON OUR ACQUISITION OF ADVANCED TECHNOLOGY AND INTERACTION WITH ALIEN CULTURES JANUARY 1988 BY O.H. KRILL ABSTRACT Throughout the forty year period when UFO have been actively observed in our civilization, a lot of data has been gathered -- data which has often pointed to aspects of the phenomena that have been supressed. As a result of the suppression and compartmentalization of the information, our culture has been fragmented into several levels of "reality" which both co-exist and oppose each other. Part of our culture does not or will not believe in the existence of other species; part of our culture acknowledges their existence or the probability of their existence; part of our culture is actually interacting with the other species. These simultaneous realities contribute to the condition of extreme confusion in which we find ourselves. Research into UFO's follows a similar pattern. Some view the matter in a completely empirical perspective; others search for patterns and functional relationships in events; still others go out and ask the right questions at the right time and get answers. Some of those answers that have appeared are, to some people, quite disturbing and fantastic. All in all, we are dealing with new concepts in physics, new concepts in psychology, and the gradually growing awareness that we are not only not alone here, but we have never been alone here. As if that were not enough, it turns out that factions of our society have known this, and apparently have been interacting with some of these alien species for quite a while. The bottom line is that all along, humanity has been led down a false path, a path that has been plagued by layer upon layer of conspiracies and disinformation. Technological knowledge and absolute power have been the motives on the human side. Survival has been the motive on the alien side, or at least as far as the predominant alien visitors are concerned. The intent of this paper is to bring much of the details regarding this into the open. You are not being asked to believe it, but to consider it in the light of what has happened, what is happening, and what may be developing right under our very noses. If you find that you cannot stomach such thoughts, or that you cannot deal with it, read no further. It is quite evident, or it should be, that the UFO situation is both complex and dangerous. The UFO problem is a multi- situational and multi-dimensional phenomena. We have established the following as having a basis in fact: o Craft from other worlds have crashed on Earth. o Alien craft are from both ultra-dimensional sources and sources within this dimension. o Early U.S. government efforts at acquiring alien technology were successful. o The U.S. government has had live alien hostages at some point in time. o The government has conducted autopsies on alien cadavers. o U.S. intelligence agencies, security agencies, and public agencies are involved in the coverup of facts pertaining to the situation. o People have been and are currently abducted, mutilated, murdered and kidnapped as a result of the UFO situation. o There is a current active alien presence on this planet among us that controls difference elements of our society. o Alien forces maintain bases on Earth and on the Moon. o The U.S. government has had a working relationship with alien forces for some time, with the express purpose of gaining technology in gravitational propulsion, beam weaponry and mind control. o Millions of cattle have been killed in the process of acquiring biological materials. o Both aliens and the U.S. government are responsible for mutilations, but for different reasons. o We live in a multi-dimensional world that is overlapped and visited by entities from other dimensions. Many of these entities are hostile. Many are not hostile. o The basis of our genetic development and religions lies in intervention by non-terrestrial and terrestrial forces. o Actual technology far exceeds that perceived by the public. o The United States space program is a cover operation that exists for public relations purposes. o People are being actively killed in order to suppress the facts about the situation. The CIA and the NSA are involved so deeply that exposure would cause collapse of their overt structure. o Facts indicate alien overt presence within five to ten years. o Our civilization is one of many that have existed in the last billion years. You will probably have more conclusions. To see, just read on.... Animal Mutilations and UFOs General Chronology In the middle of 1963, a series of livestock attacks occurred in Haskell County, Texas. In a typical case, an Angus bull was found with its throat slashed and a saucer-sized wound in its stomach. The citizenry attributed the attacks to a wild beast of some sort, a "vanishing varmint." As it continued its furtive forays through the Haskell County outback, the bloodluster assumed somewhat more mythic proportions and a new name was destined to endure: The Haskell Rascal. Throughout the following decade, there would be sporadic reports of similar attacks on livestock. These attacks were occasionally described as "mutilations." The most prominent of these infrequent reports was the mutilation death of "Snippy" the horse in southern Colorado in 1967, accompanied by area UFO sightings, a Condon Committee investigation and worldwide press coverage. It was in 1973 that the modern animal mutilation wave can be said to have begun in earnest. That year is generally thought of as the year of the last concerted UFO flap, although there may be reason to question that contention, given the events of two years later. In 1973 and 1974 the majority of the classic mutilation reports originated in the central United States. In 1975, an unprecedented onslaught spread across the western two-thirds of the United States. Mutilation reports peaked in that year, accompanied by accounts of UFOs and unidentified helicopters. In 1978, the attacks increased. By 1979, numerous livestock mutilations were occurring in Canada, primarily in Alberta and Saskatchewan. Attacks in the United States leveled off. In 1980, there was an increase in activity in the United States. Mutilations have been reported less frequently since that year, though this may be due in part to an increased reluctance to report mutilations on the part of ranchers and farmers. The mutilations still continue. Over ten thousand animals have died in the United States; although the mutilations have been occurring worldwide, the same circumstances are always present. General Observations Any investigation which intends to probe the systematic occurrence of the mutilation attacks upon livestock and other animals must include within its purview certain factors which may or may not be directly related to the acts of mutilation themselves. These mutilations -- the killing and furtive removal of external or internal parts -- have been directed at literally thousands of animals (primarily livestock) since the 1960s. The surgery on these animals is primarily conducted with uncanny precision, suggesting the use of highly sophisticated implements and techniques. The numbing and persistent regularity of the mutilations and the seemingly casual disposal of the useless carcasses all hint at extreme confidence -- even arrogance -- of the mutilators. It is an arrogance which appears to be justified by the freedom and impunity with which these acts have been carried out. The pertinence of a specific element of the problem is shortly revealed in the course of any thorough investigation into the mutilations. I refer to the appearance of unmarked and otherwise unidentified helicopters within a spatial and temporal proximity of animal mutilation sites. The occurrence of the two has been persistent enough to supercede coincidence. These mystery helicopters are almost always without identifying markings, or markings may appear to have been painted over or covered with something. The helicopters are frequently reported flying at abnormal, unsafe or illegal altitudes. They may shy away if witnesses of law officers try to approach. There are several accounts of aggressive behavior on the part of the helicopter occupants, with witnesses chased, "buzzed," hovered over or even fired upon. At times these choppers appear very near mutilation sites, even hovering over a pasture where a mutilated carcass is later found. They may be observed shortly before or after mutilations occur -- or within days of a mutilation. The intention here is merely to stress that the "mystery helicopter" element is a part of the issue which deserves scrutiny. The idea of "mystery helicopters" did not develop concurrently with the animal mutilations themselves. Such helicopters -- unmarked, flying at low levels, soundless (or sounding like helicopters) -- have been reported for years, and have been linked to an even more widespread phenomenon -- the "phantom" (fixed wing) aircraft. The helicopters themselves have been seen in area where UFOs were reported, in many countries. In some of the more interesting accounts, the mystery helicopters were seen with UFOs, or shortly after the UFOs were sighted. The most apt case I can think of, but certainly not the most isolated, is a case described by Virgil Armstrong in his lecture on "What NASA Didn't Tell Us About the Moon." He discusses helicopters and UFOs in general. Armstrong describes a friend of his that had invented a special camera arrangement with the idea that it would increase the chances of getting good pictures of UFOs. The camera was mounted on a gunstock along with a laser. The idea was to fire the laser at the UFO, if one appeared, and hopefully the UFO would come to a halt, enabling him to take some quality pictures. Not too long after they were set up in the desert, a UFO did in fact appear, and they fired the laser and the disk stopped in a hovering mode. They took quite a few good pictures of it. Shortly thereafter, the disk flew away. Within minutes, they heard the unmistakable sound of helicopters coming their way. The helicopters landed strategically around their group, and out of the choppers came a croup of Black Berets, which are strategic Air Force security forces. The commander of the Berets walked up to the group and said, "What are you doing here?" "Obviously, we are photographing flying objects, and we just saw a flying saucer and we got some very very good pictures of it." The commander then asked the leader of the group if he knew where he was. The group leader replied "No." The commander then said, "We suggest you get out of here right now!" The group leader then asked, "What right do you have to tell us to get out of here? Is this government land?" The commander of the Black Berets replied, "Indeed it is. It is Andrews Air Force Base, and if you are not out of here in ten minutes, you are under arrest." With that, the Berets removed the film from the camera, and the group left. Not only does this illustrate one kind of instance where UFOs are seen in relationship to helicopters, but it also illustrates the fact that either some of the disks are ours, or we have a military/government relationship with those who fly them. The helicopters mentioned above are not the mystery ones, but were United States military ones. Another case of military helicopters and United States-owned disks comes from the book "UFO Crash at Aztec," by Wendell Stevens. In the book he relates the incident where an Indian was backpacking in the mountains in the vicinity of Area 51, Groom Lake, on the Nellis AFB range north of Las Vegas. He heard approaching helicopters and hid out of sight. The helicopters were broadcasting a warning over public address systems for anyone in the area to show themselves because they were going to conduct a "dangerous military test." The Indian maintained his hidden posture, and the helicopters flew overhead and back down toward the Groom Lake facility. Minutes later, two helicopters were seen flying up the canyon with a black disk flying between them and slightly above them. They flew overhead and then the helicopters turned around and flew back towards the base, followed shortly afterward by the disk. The individual's name and how to contact him for further details is given in the book. The Mystery Choppers Situations involving the mystery helicopters appear to be a little more insidious. A good example is an event which occurred in Madison County, Montana, between June and October of 1976. Twenty-two confirmed cattle mutilations had occurred during that period, and they were accompanied by reports throughout the county of silent, unmarked, jet-black helicopters, flashing or steady anomalous lights in the air and near the ground, unmarked fixed- wing aircraft and white vans in remote and previously inaccessible areas. Toward the latter part of this period, in early autumn of 1976, a hunter from Bozeman, Montana, was out alone around 3:00pm one day in the Red Mountain area near Norris. He watched as a black helicopter without markings flew overhead and disappeared below a small hill. The curious hunter climbed to the top of the hill. There was the black chopper (a Bell Jet Ranger, he thought) on the ground, the engine still running. Seven men had apparently exited from the craft and were walking up the hill toward the observer. As the hunter advanced toward the seven, he waved and shouted congenial greetings. It was then that he realized there was something about the men -- they were all Oriental. They had slanted eyes and olive skin and were jabbering among themselves in some indecipherable language. They wore "everyday" clothes, not uniforms. Suddenly they began to return to the helicopter. The hunter, still waving and shouting friendly greetings, started after them. The Orientals quickened their pace. When the hunter approached within five or six feet, they broke into a dead run, crowded into the chopper and took off. In a documented "mystery helicopter" wave in England, accounts place Oriental-appearing occupants in an unidentified chopper. Slant-eyed, olive skinned, Oriental-seeming occupants have been a staple at the heart and at the periphery of UFO accounts for years. Significant numbers of the infamous "men-in- black" (MIB) have a similar appearance, but very often they are seen as very pale and gaunt men who are sensitive to light. In STIGMATA No. 5 (Fall-Winter 1978) Tom Adams outlined the most prominent speculative explanations accounting for the mutilation/helicopter link, including the following: o The helicopters are themselves UFOs, disguised to appear as terrestrial craft. o The choppers originate from within the U.S. government/military and are directly involved in conducting the actual mutilations. o The helicopters are government/military and are not involved in the mutilations but are investigating them. o The helicopters are government/military, and they know about the identity and motives of the mutilators and by their presence, they are trying to divert attention to the possibility of involvement by the military. The answer, as far as Tom Adams is concerned, could be a combination of the above explanations. There also has been speculation that they are involved in biological experiments with chemical or biological warfare or the geobotanical pursuit of petroleum and mineral deposits. On one occasion, an army standard-type scalpel was found at a mutilation site. Since the disks have been mostly involved with the mutilations, it is thought that this was a diversionary event. These events, or the discussion of them, is just the precursor to the actual revelations of what is behind the mutilations: alien acquisition of biological materials for their own use. To discuss this in a logical and sequential manner, we must review what has been really happening right under our noses: direct interaction with extraterrestrial biological entities (EBE's). To discuss that, however, we must attempt to start at the beginning with what we now know to be true. The Saga Begins It seemingly all began thousands of years ago, but for the purposes of this discussion, let's start with some events that we all are familiar with. In 1947, two years after we set off the first nuclear explosion that our current civilization detonated, came the Mantell episode, where we had the first recorded incident of a military confrontation with extraterrestrials that resulted in the death of a military pilot. It is quite evident now that our government did not known quite how to handle the situation. In 1952, the nation's capital was overflown by a series of disks. It was this event which led to the involvement of United States security forces (CIA, NSA, DIA, FBI) to try to keep the situation under control until they could understand what was happening. During this period, the government established a working group, known as Majestic Twelve (MJ-12). The original members were: Admiral Roscoe H. Hillenkoetter, Dr. Vannevar Bush, Secretary James Forrestal, General Nathan P. Twining, General Hoyt S. Vandenburg, Dr. Detlev Bronk, Dr. Jerome Hunsaker, Mr. Sidney W. Souers, Mr. Gordon Gray, Dr. Donald Menzel, General Robert M. Montague, and Dr. Lloyd V. Berkner. The MJ-12 group has been a continuously existing group since it was created, with new members replacing others that die. For example, when Secretary Forrestal was upset at seeing the United States sold out in World War II, he wound up being sent to a Naval hospital for emotional strain. Before relatives could get to him, he "jumped out a 16th story window." Most persons close to him consider his suicide contrived. When Forrestal died, he was replaced by General Walter B. Smith. In December of 1947, Project Sign was created to acquire as much information as possible about UFOs, their performance characteristics and their purposes. In order to preserve security, liaison between Project Sign and MJ-12 was limited to two individuals within the intelligence division of the Air Materiel Command whose role it was to pass along certain types of information through channels. Project Sign evolved into Project Grudge in December, 1948. Project Grudge had an over civilian counterpart named Project Bluebook, with which we are all familiar. Only "safe" reports were passed to Bluebook. In 1949, MJ-12 evolved an initial plan of contingency called MJ-1949-04P/78 that was to make allowance for public disclosure of some data should the necessity present itself. Majestic Twelve was originally organized by General George C. Marshall in July, 1947, to study the Roswell-Magdalena UFO crash recovery and debris. Admiral Hillenkoetter, director of the CIA from May 1, 1947, until September, 1950, decided to activate the "Robertson Panel," which was designed to monitor civilian UFO study groups that were appearing all over the country. He also joined NICAP in 1956 and was chosen as a member of its board of directors. It was from this position that he was able to act as the MJ-12 "mole," along with his team of other covert experts. They were able to steer NICAP in any direction they wanted to go. With the "Flying Saucer Program" under complete control of MJ-12 and with the physical evidence hidden away, General Marshall felt more at ease with this very bizarre situation. These men and their successors have most successfully kept most of the public fooled for 39 years, including much of the western world, by setting up false experts and throwing their influence behind them to make their plan work, with considerable success. Until now. Within six months of the Roswell crash on 2 July 1947 and the finding of another crashed UFO at San Augustine Flats near Magdalena, New Mexico, on 3 July 1947, a great deal of reorganization of agencies and shuffling of people took place. The main thrust behind the original "security lid," and the very reason for its construction, was the analysis and attempted duplication of the technologies of the disks. That activity is headed up by the following groups: o The Research and Development Board (R&DB) o Air Force Research and Development (AFRD) o The Office of Naval Research (ONR) o CIA Office of Scientific Intelligence (CIA-OSI) o NSA Office Of Scientific Intelligence (NSA-OSI) No single one of these groups was supposed to know the whole story. Each group was to know only the parts that MJ-12 allowed them to know. MJ-12 also operates through the various civilian intelligence and investigative groups. The CIA and the FBI are manipulated by MJ-12 to carry out their purposes. The NSA was created in the first place to protect the secret of the recovered flying disks, and eventually got complete control over all communications intelligence. This control allows the NSA to monitor any individual through mail, telephone, telexes, telegrams, and now through online computers, monitoring private and personal communications as they choose. In fact, the present-day NSA is the current main extension of MJ-12 pertaining to the "Flying Saucer Program." Vast amounts of disinformation are spread throughout the UFO research field. Any witnesses to any aspect of the program have their lives monitored in every detail, for each has signed a security oath. For people who have worked in the program, including military members, breaking that oath could have any on of the following direct consequences: o A verbal warning accompanied by a review of the security oath. o A stronger warning, sometimes accompanied by a brow- beating and intimidation. o Psychologically working on an individual to bring on depression that will lead to suicide. o Murder of the person made to appear as a suicide or accident. o Strange and sudden accidents, always fatal. o Confinement in special "detention centers." o Confinement in "insane asylums" where they are "treated" by mind-control and deprogramming techniques. Individuals are released with changed personalities, identities, and altered memories. o Bringing the individual into the "inside," where he is employed and works for "them," and where he can be watched. This is usually in closed facilities with little contact with the outside world. Underground facilities are the usual place for this. Any individual who they perceive to be "too close to the truth" will be treated in the same manner. MJ-12 will go to any length to preserve and protect the ultimate secret. As we will see later, the characteristics of what this ultimate secret would turn out to be would change drastically, for it was something even MJ- 12 could not predict -- actual contact with alien groups. How the actual contact between the government and aliens was initially made is not known, but the government was made aware that it could be done by a civilian using the right equipment. Dr. Paul Bennewitz, civilian scientist, did so using computer equipment and informed the government he had done so, not realizing that by then, in 1983, that the government was in truth as deep into dealing with the aliens as his communications with them revealed. Dr. Bennewitz lives next to Manzano Weapons Storage Area in Albuquerque, New Mexico. He observed UFOs constantly over the area and initially decided that they were a threat to the installation. He proceeded to figure out a coding system and attempted and was successful in communicating with the aliens that were flying over that area. What he found out is that after initial contacts with the aliens years ago, we agreed to to provide them with bases underground in the United States in return for certain technological secrets which the aliens would reveal to us. The aliens would also be allowed to carry out certain operations, abductions, and mutilations without intervention. The original contact between the government and the extraterrestrial biological entities, who are grey in color and about 3.5 to 4.5 feet high (hereafter referred to as the Greys), was achieved between 1947 and 1951. We knew that the Greys were instrumental in performing the mutilations of animals (and some humans) and that they were using the glandular substances derived from these materials for food (absorbed through the skin) and to clone more Greys in their underground laboratories. The government was also aware that the Greys performed some of the abductions to secure genetic materials. The government insisted that the Greys provide them with a list that would be presented to the National Security Council. Through all this, the government thought that the Greys were basically tolerable creatures, although a bit distasteful. They presumed at the time that it was not unreasonable to assume that the public would and could get used to their presence. Between 1968 and 1969 a plan was formulated to make the public aware of their existence over the succeeding twenty years. This time period would culminate with a series of documentaries that would explain the history and intentions of the Greys. The Greys assured us that the real purpose of the abductions was for monitoring of our civilization, and when we learned that the abductions were a lot more frequent and insidious than we were led to believe, the government became concerned. Their concern was also based on additional information regarding the purposes for the abductions: o Insertion of a 3mm spherical biological monitoring device through the nasal cavity into the brain of the abductee. o Implementing subliminal post-hypnotic suggestions that would compel the abductee to perform some specific act at a time to be within the next two to five years. o Genetic crossbreeding between the Greys and human beings. o Insertion of discoid monitoring devices into the muscle tissue of the abductees. Presence of these has been verified by x-ray. By the time we had found out the truth about the intentions of the Greys (they intend to stay here and stay in control of our world) it was too late. We had already "sold out" humanity. Not that it would have made any difference, because they were here doing what they were doing anyway. In 1983, a story was outlined by government sources that said that the Greys are responsible for our biological evolution through manipulation of the DNA of already evolving primates on this planet. Various time intervals of the DNA manipulation were specified for 25,000, 15,000, 5,000, and 2,500 years ago. Originally, the government thought that the Greys meant us no harm, but today, in 1988, the picture that is emerging is exactly the opposite. The story now is one of great deception at several different levels: the Greys Trojan Horse-style manipulation and lying which allied MJ-12 forces with them four decades ago; the government's disinformation of the subject of UFOs in order to perpetuate the agreement with the Greys free of public scrutiny; the lies to the abductees; the Greys on-going abduction of people and mutilation of animals in order to harvest enzymes, blood and other tissues for their own survival needs; and a genetic blend of the Grey race and a tall Nordic race to enable Grey interface with humans to be done with greater ease. Information from a source at a southwest Army base reveals that these multiple levels of deception are true. It is also indicated that the goal of SDI (Star Wars) is actually to follow through with an attack, proposed by the Greys, on the Nordics when they arrive en masse between now and 1992. This time schedule seems to match with the post-hypnotic programming of many abductees for actions between the next two to five years. This same source sees the world dominated and controlled by the Greys in a way similar to that portrayed in the "V" television series -- they are concerned only for their own survival agenda, and this agenda requires biological substances from other life forms on our planet. The apparent reasoning for the Grey preoccupation with this is due to their lack of a formal digestive tract and the fact that they absorb nutrients and excrete waste directly through the skin. The substances that they acquire are mixed with hydrogen peroxide and "painted" on their skin, allowing absorption of the required nutrients. It is construed from this that some weaponry against them might be geared in this direction. ---------Continued in krill part 2 ----------------------------------- -- -* Don Allen *- InterNet: dona@bilver.UUCP // Amiga..for the best of us. USnail: 1818G Landing Dr, Sanford Fl 32771 \X/ Why use anything else? :-) UUCP: ..uunet!tarpit!bilver!vicstoy!dona 0110 0110 0110 Just say NO! Illuminati < MJ-12|Greys|TLC|CFR|FED|Bilderbergs > UN = "New World Order" Path: ns-mx!uunet!crdgw1!ge-dab!tarpit!bilver!dona From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy Subject: FILE: OH Krill part 2 Message-ID: <1991Aug8.055040.24308@bilver.uucp> Date: 8 Aug 91 05:50:40 GMT Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL Lines: 316 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:1608 alt.conspiracy:6545 --------Krill part 2 ---------------------------------------------------------- **************** * CONFIDENTIAL * **************** A SITUATION REPORT ON OUR ACQUISITION OF ADVANCED TECHNOLOGY AND INTERACTION WITH ALIEN CULTURES by O.H. KRILL Observations by a Visiting Nordic In October, 1987, UFO researcher George Andrews was successfully able to contact one of the Nordics not associated with the Greys, through a woman in California. What follows are the comments made by the alien: "Were you a culture about to invade, you would not do it with a flourish of ships showing up in the heavens and undergo risk of being fired upon. That's the type of warfare slightly less evolved beings get into. You would create intense confusion and disagreement with only inferences to your presence -- inferences which would [in turn] cause controversial disagreement. "The Greys are insidious little fiends. They did exactly [to us] what they're doing here [to you]. You are not on the verge of an invasion. You are not in the middle of an invasion. The invasion has already taken place. It's merely in its final stages. "What would you invade? [Here he describes the operational plan of the Greys from the beginning.] You would go to the most secret of communities within a society. In the case of the United States, you would go and infiltrate the CIA. You would take over some of them and you would take over part of the KGB. "You would create great dissension and disagreement between factions of the public at large -- some groups saying they have seen UFOs, others saying 'No, no, this is not possible.' You would involve two major countries in an on-going idiotic philosophical disagreement so that while the Soviet Union and the United States constantly battle back and forth about who has which piece of territory or whether one invades Iran or whether one invades Afghanistan or whatever... whether one dismantles one nuclear warhead or the other dismantles another group of warheads -- you would sit back and laugh if you had the capacity to laugh. "You would present yourself indeed to some in a group who would protect you [CIA or MJ-12] thinking they had a secret more secret and more perfect knowledge of something than anyone else on this planet had, and they would covet you and you would trust their own greed and you would trust their own mass stupidity to trap them. And you'd do it on both sides. "You'd show yourself to some of the mass populace to further involve [factions of] the government in an attempt to shut them up, to keep them even more busy quieting them and trying to 'stop more information about UFOs from getting out.' You'd have the mass populace to a state where they distrusted the government. 'Oh, why don't they believe us? Why can't they understand that these things are really happening? We're not crazy!' "So you would have battles constantly about whether UFOs exist or they don't exist. You would have the public and the government at each other's throats. You would set two major superpowers at each other's throats. And you would have set up groups like 'haves' -- the wealthy but contented -- and the 'have- nots.' You would plant the seeds of massive discontent. "Eventually you might have some show of ships landing in the 1990s. One or two. By the time they have landed, be assured they will be in complete control. You will start doing crossbreeds and more crossbreeds, generation after generation. "You bribe the government with a few tidbits -- a Star Wars system. You tease and tempt the Soviet Union with a laser system far finer than any of their own scientists could think of. And you always have that subtle inference -- just on the borderline of consciousness so that UFOs don't seem to believable, yet you keep it couched in secrecy and make it seem quite so insane that no one would believe them. On top of it, you would unleash forces that would want to kill them [UFO contactees] if they disclosed that the CIA is dealing with the exact same things the [contact victim] is. "Maybe one or two hundred years from now, some of the Greys will even physically mingle and you may have some creatures walking around who are pretty much hybrids between Greys and your own race. For now, anything that walks around will look much like yourselves. It's simpler. It holds down on mass panic. "Everyone who has experiences with them [Greys] will be at odds with the government. To add to that, we will go into a complete phased of earthquake after earthquake and upheaval after upheaval. "The inner core of the CIA is deeply controlled by the Greys. The CIA sees interaction with the Greys as a path to greater scientific achievement. "One reason you are seeing so many different kinds of UFOs is that other cultures are watching with extreme interest. Scientists from other cultures arrive to watch. The Greys have not only taken over the intelligence agencies, they have also taken over what those agencies call 'lunatic fringe groups.'" ***************************************************************** Well, that's what they Nordic had to say. The source of this also makes the following commentary: "The ultimate evil is that masked form of psychological complacency that leads one to adhere to a group philosophy rather than eke out one's own horizons. As soon as you acquire an awareness of being a so-called 'chosen special group,' you are on the way to a fall. That is the seed of destruction in any society and any culture and it leaves it vulnerable. It will be the eventual undoing of the Greys as well. They see not their error -- it is the very weakness they seize upon that is their own inherent weakness. To try and change a Grey, or a cultish type of 'Star Person,' or a CIA member is futile. It will happen, but all in its own good time... it is the spirit that makes anyone stand up and disagree with something that is untrue and incorrect that will be the thorn in the side of the Greys, and the other forces that have allied with them." During the occupation of the Greys, they have established quite a number of underground bases all over the world, especially in the United States. One such base (among others in the same state) is under Archuleta Mesa, which is about 2.5 miles northwest of Dulce, New Mexico. Details about that base have come across by way of two sources. The first source is by way of an abduction of a woman and her son who witnessed the pickup of a calf for extraction of biological materials. "In May, 1980, a most interesting case occurred in northern New Mexico. A mother and her son were driving on a rural highway near Cimarron when they observed two craft in the process of abducting a calf. Both of them were then abducted and taken on separate craft to the underground installation, where the woman witnessed the mutilation of the calf. It was alleged that she also observed vats containing cattle body parts floating in a liquid, and another vat containing the body of a male human. The woman was subjected to an exam and it was further alleged that small metallic objects were implanted into her body as well as into her son's body. More than one source has informed us that catscans have confirmed the presence of these implants." The above extract is from a transcript of a conversation between Jim McCampbell and Dr. Paul Bennewitz on July 13, 1984. Bennewitz reports that through regressive hypnosis of the mother and child (required only in about 30% of abduction cases)and his own follow-up investigation (including communications receive via his computer terminal, which are ostensibly from a UFO-related source), he was able to determine the location of the underground facility: a kilometer underground beneath Archuleta Mesa on the Jicarilla Apache Indian Reservation near Dulce, New Mexico (since 1976, one of the area of the U.S. hardest hit by mutilations). Bennewitz' information is that this installation is operated jointly as part of an on-going program of cooperation between the U.S. government and EBEs. There are also underground bases at Kirtland AFB and Holloman AFB, as well as at scores of other bases around the world, including Bentwaters, England. Back to the base under discussion.... After Bennewitz briefed Air Force officials on what he had found, a trip to the area revealed the following data: The base is 2.5 miles northwest of Dulce, and almost overlooks the town. There is a level highway 36 feet wide going into the area. It is a government road. One can see telemetry trailers and buildings that are five-sided with a dome. Net to the domes, a black limousine was noted -- a CIA vehicle. These limos will run you off the road if you try to get into the area. To the north there is a launch site. There are two wrecked ships there; they are 36 feet long with wings, and one can see oxygen and hydrogen tanks. The ships that we got out of the trade are atomic- powered with plutonium pellets. Refueling of the plutonium is accomplished at Los Alamos. The base has been there since 1948. Some of the disks are piloted by the NSA. The base is 4,000 feet long and helicopters are going in and out of there all the time. When it became known that Bennewitz was familiar with this, the mutilations in the area stopped. In 1979, something happened and the base was temporarily closed. There was an argument over weapons and our people were chased out. The aliens killed 66 of our people, and 44 got away. One of the people who in fact got away was a CIA agent who, before leaving, made some notes, photos, and videotapes, and went into hiding. He has been in hiding ever since, and every six months he contacts each of five people he left copies of the material with. His instructions were that if he missed four successive contacts, the people could do whatever they want with the material. This agent calls an individual known to MUFON. Somehow, a description of the "Dulce Papers" was issued, and was received in December, 1987, by many researchers. The "Dulce Papers" were composed of 25 black and white photos, a videotape with no dialogue and a set of papers that included technical information regarding the jointly occupied (U.S.-Alien) facility one kilometer beneath the Archuleta Mesa near Dulce, New Mexico. The facility still exists and is currently operational. It is believed that there are four additional facilities of the same type, one being located a few miles to the southeast of Groom Lake, Nevada. **************************************************************** "A general description of what these papers contain is that they contain documents that discuss copper and molybdenum, and papers that discuss magnesium and potassium, but mostly papers about copper. Sheets of paper with charts and strange diagrams. Papers that discuss UV light and gamma rays. These papers tell what the aliens are after and how the blood (taken from cattle) is used. The aliens seem to absorb atoms to eat. They put their hands in blood, sort of like a sponge, for nourishment. It's not just food they want; the DNA in cattle and humans is being altered. The 'Type One' creature is a lab animal. They know how to change the atoms to create a temporary 'almost human being.' It is made with animal tissue and depends on a computer to simulate memory, a memory the computer has withdrawn from another human. Clones. The 'almost human being' is slow and clumsy. Real humans are used for training, to experiment with and to breed with these 'almost humans.' Some humans are kidnapped and used completely. Some are kept in large tubes, and are kept alive in an amber liquid. "Some humans are brainwashed and used to distort the truth. Certain male humans have a high sperm count and are kept alive. Their sperm is used to alter the DNA and create a non-gender being called 'Type Two.' That sperm is grown in some way and altered again, put in wombs. They resemble 'ugly humans' when growing but look normal when fully grown, which only takes a few months from fetus-size. "They have a short life span, less than a year. Some female humans are used for breeding. Countless women have had a sudden miscarriage after about three months' pregnancy. Some never know they were pregnant, others remember contact some way. The fetus is used to mix the DNA in types one and two. The atomic makeup in that fetus is half human, half 'almost human,' and would not survive in the mother's womb. It is taken at three months and grown elsewhere." **************************************************************** Well, that's what the "Dulce Papers" review says. There are some pen and ink reproductions of some of the photos made in the laboratories (3), an illustration of what one of the wombs looks like (2' x 4'), an illustration showing one of the tubes where one of the "almost humans" is grown, a page showing a simple diagram of crystalline metal, pure gold crystal, and what looks like either a genetic or metallurgical diagram or chart. Also attached is what looks like an x-ray diffraction pattern and a diagram of hexagonal crystals, with a comment that they are best for electrical conduction. It would appear that the last half of material in the "review" applies to the supercrystalline metal used for hull structure, or something along that line. **************************************************************** Obviously, this is all rather bizarre from a certain point of view -- any point of view, in fact. Nevertheless, material that is supported by years of descriptions and multitudes of corroborations must mean something, especially when bumped against what is seen to be going on. It is apparent from this and other data that has been accumulated over the years, that there are underground bases and tunnel complexes all over the world, and that more are being constructed all the time. Many of you may recall the "Shaver" mysteries and inner-earth city stories. Well, all that is true. There are cities down there, amongst other things, and some of them have nothing to do with the main subject of this paper. They've been there for a long time. Let's change direction for a moment. One individual by the name of Lew Tery has been working on some ideas regarding UFOs and geomagnetic anomalies. I will go into what he has discovered (although the concept of the relationship is not new) and let you judge that for yourself. After purchasing aeromagnetic and gravitational anomaly maps from the United States Geological Survey, it becomes evident that there was indeed a valid connection between these areas and UFOs. Mr. Tery gave a lecture in Arizona about that relationship, and was subsequently harassed by the FBI, and told that the information is "sensitive." Mr. Tery took the hint and declined to talk publicly about it to the degree that he had been doing. Both the aeromagnetic and gravitational (Bougier Gravity) maps indicate basic field strength, as well as areas of high and low field strength. Interestingly enough, the areas of maximum and minimum field strength have the following: o All have frequent UFO sightings. o All are either on Indian Reservations, government land, or the government is trying to buy up the land. o Many of them, especially where several are clustered together, are suspected bases areas and/or areas where mutilations and abductions have historically taken place. In these observations, Mr. Tery has gone far, but he has gone a little farther in noting that there are times when the UFOs are seen in these areas. Through painstaking research, Mr. Tery found that the sightings, as well as many abductions and mutilations, occur: o On the new moon or within two days before the new moon. o On the full moon or within two days before the full moon. o At the perihelion (moon closest to earth) or within two days before the perihelion. A glance at the nearest farmers' almanac will give you the information you require as far as the days for this year or any other one. There seems to be no concrete explanation for the coincidence of the times and the events, but it is true. -------Continued in krill part 3 -------------------------------------------- -- -* Don Allen *- InterNet: dona@bilver.UUCP // Amiga..for the best of us. USnail: 1818G Landing Dr, Sanford Fl 32771 \X/ Why use anything else? :-) UUCP: ..uunet!tarpit!bilver!vicstoy!dona 0110 0110 0110 Just say NO! Illuminati < MJ-12|Greys|TLC|CFR|FED|Bilderbergs > UN = "New World Order" Path: ns-mx!uunet!crdgw1!ge-dab!tarpit!bilver!dona From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy Subject: FILE: OH Krill part 3 Message-ID: <1991Aug8.055219.24384@bilver.uucp> Date: 8 Aug 91 05:52:19 GMT Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL Lines: 788 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:1609 alt.conspiracy:6546 ------------Krill part 3 ------------------------------------------------- **************** * CONFIDENTIAL * **************** A SITUATION REPORT ON OUR ACQUISITION OF ADVANCED TECHNOLOGY AND INTERACTION WITH ALIEN CULTURES by O.H. KRILL The Men in Black All things considered, UFO research has become pretty much of a circus today, and the most intriguing and controversial sideshow skirting the edges is the question of the "silencers," or the mysterious "Men in Black." There is a strong subliminal appeal in these accounts of visits by mysterious dark-suited figures (I have been visited myself, as have others I've known) attempting to silence UFO witnesses. A typical situation would be that a witness has a UFO sighting or UFO-related experience. Shortly thereafter he is visited by one or more "odd"-looking men who relate to him the minutest details of his experience, even though he has as yet told no one for fear of ridicule or other reasons. The men warn him about spreading the story of his experience around and sometimes even threaten him personally, sometimes obliquely, sometimes directly. Any evidence, if it exists, is confiscated in one way or another. Sometimes the visit is for some totally meaningless reason and the subject of UFOs is hardly mentioned, if at all. But again, the men all seem to look alike. We actually seem to find ourselves in close proximity to beings who obviously must be directly connected in some way with the objects themselves or the source behind them, yet they seem to be functioning unobtrusively within the framework of our own everyday existence. The classic conception of an MIB is a man of indefinite age, medium height and dressed completely in black. He always has a black hat and often a black turtleneck sweater. They present an appearance often described as "strange" or "odd." They speak in a dull monotone voice, "like a computer," and are dark-complected with high cheekbones, thin lips, pointed chin, and eyes that are mildly slanted. The visitors themselves are often on absurd missions. They have reportedly posed as salesmen, telephone repairmen or representatives from official or unofficial organizations. Their mode of transportation is usually large and expensive cars -- Buicks or Lincolns, sometimes Cadillacs, all black, of course. I might note at this point that their physical appearance also has included beings that have pale-greyish skin, and that some of them have been seen to have blond hair, yet they wear the clothing and drive the cars previously described. Their cars often operate with the headlights off, but ghostly purple or greenish glows illuminate the interior. Unusual insignia have been seen emblazoned on the doors and the license plates are always unidentifiable or untraceable. The fabric of their clothes has been described as strangely "shiny" or thin, but not silky -- almost as if they have been cut from a new type of fabric. Their often mechanical behavior has caused them to be described by some as being like robots or androids (think back to the Dulce lab). A lot of descriptions of some of these "folks" are pretty bizarre. A businessman's family in Wildwood, New Jersey, was visited by an unusually large man whose pants legs hiked up when he sat down, revealing a green wire grafted onto his skin and running up his leg. There are other cases of MIB appearing on the other side of a wet, muddy field after a heavy rain, but having no mud whatever on their brightly shined shoes and in the bitter cold, out of nowhere, wearing only a thin coat. Their shoes and wallets all seem new and hardly broken in. They are not alone. They seem to have faceless conspirators in the nation's post offices and phone companies. Researchers and witnesses often report their mail going astray at an unusually high rate and being bothered by bizarre phone calls where they are spoken to by metallic, unhuman-sounding voices. Unusual noises on the phone, intensifying whenever UFOs are mentioned, and voices breaking in on conversations, have all led many people to suspect that their phones are being tapped. One can't discuss the MIB for long without mentioning the name of John A. Keel, an author who has written much about them. Keel has done more than any other writer to publicize this bizarre aspect of the UFO situation. Keel suggests that the UFO are part of the environment itself and come from another time-space continua; that most of the UFO phenomena is psychic and psychological rather than physical. Well, I personally would not define it that way, although those two components are certainly deeply involved in what's going on. The first noted appearance of the MIB was in 1947, at the scene of the Maury Island incident, where some debris was ejected from a disk, and subsequently recovered by officials, who loaded them on an Army bomber which crashed on takeoff. To illustrate a little how bizarre some of the incidents are regarding the MIB, I have assembled a short list of some of the more interesting factors in some cases: o An ex-Air Force man is gassed and interrogated by MIB after he has learned classified NASA secrets. o Closeup photos of UFOs were seized from a teenager who is also directly threatened by MIB. o MIB sighted in the lobby of the U.S. State Department leave a mysterious artifact. o MIB pose as Air Force officers to silence witnesses. o MIB tries to buy before-hours Coke and sings to birds in trees. o MIB disintegrates a coin in a witness' hand and tells him that his heart will do the same if he talks. **************************************************************** Throughout all this information, I have neglected to mention some aspects of the psychology of the Greys. Dr. Paul Bennewitz, in his original report to the government entitled "Project Beta," goes into some detail, which I will now discuss: o The alien, either through evolvement or because the humanoid types are "made," will exhibit tendencies for bad logic. They appear to have more frailties and weaknesses than the normal Homo Sapien. o They are not to be trusted. o Because of the aliens' apparent logic system, a key decision cannot be made without higher clearance. All are under control of what they call "The Keeper," yet it would appear that even this is not the final authority. Delays as long as 12-15 hours can occur for a decision. o Because of this apparent control, individual instantaneous decision-making by the alien is limited. If the "plan" goes even slightly out of balance or context, they become confused. Faced with this, possibly, the humanoids would be the first to run. o Psychologically their morale is near disintegration. There is pronounced dissension in the ranks -- even with the humanoids. o Because of their own internal vulnerability mind-wise to each other, there is a basic lack of trust between them. o They appear to be totally death-oriented, and because of this, absolutely death-fear oriented. This is a psychological advantage. o The prime, and weakest area discovered, probed and tested is exactly what they have used, thinking it their key strength -- that being the manipulation of and control of the mind. Manipulated in reverse- psychology they face a situation where they have a vulnerable, integrated weakness. o They totally respect force. **************************************************************** Grey Physiology and Anatomy The approximate height of most specimens is between 3.5 and 4.5 feet. The head, by human standards, is large in comparison with the body. Facial features show a pair of eyes described as large, sunken or deeply set, far apart or distended more than the human, and slightly slanted as Oriental or Mongoloid. No ear lobes or apertures on the side of the head were seen. The nose is vague. One or tow holes have been mentioned. The mouth area is described as a small slit or fissure. In some cases there is no mouth at all. It appears not to function as a means for communication or for food. The neck area is described as being thin, in some instances not being visible at all because of the tightly-knit garment. Most observers describe these humanoids as being hairless. Some of the bodies recovered have a slight hair-patch atop the head. Others have what appears to be like a silver skullcap. There were no breathing attachments or communications devices. This suggests telepathy with higher intelligence. In one instance there was an opening in the right frontal lobe area, revealing a crystalline network. This network implies the development of a third brain. The arms are described as long and thin, reaching down to the knee section. The hangers each contain four fingers, with no thumbs. Three fingers are longer than the other. Some are very long. Some are very long. Others are very short. No description is available of the legs and feet. Some pathologists indicate that that section of the body was not developed as we would anticipate, showing that some of these beings were adapted to life in the water. There was a webbing effect between the fingers on most of the specimens. According to most observers, the skin is grey. Some claim it is beige, tan or pinkish-grey. No reproductive organs or capabilities were discovered. No phallus. No womb. Confirms cloning mentioned by other sources. The humanoids appear to be from a mold, sharing identical racial and biological characteristics. There is no blood as we know it, but there is a fluid which is greyish in color. **************************************************************** The "Taxonomy of Extra-Terrestrial Humanoids," another offering by George Andrews, yields some other observations: o Working under the instructions of the humanoids from Rigel (the Greys), CIA and former Nazi scientists have developed and deployed malignant strains of bacteria and viruses, including AIDS, in order to exterminate undesirable elements of the human population. o The Greys are almost entirely devoid of emotions, but can obtain a "high" by telepathically tuning in the different kinds of intense human emotion, such as ecstasy or agony. (Does that explain why UFOs have always been seen in regions of war and human conflict?) o There are over 1,000 humans in the United States alone who are the offspring of intergalactic or extragalactic beings and terrestrial humans. (The son of an acquaintance of [deleted in original] is one.) o Throughout recorded history, as well as during prehistoric times, there has been constant genetic manipulation of and interbreeding with humans in order to breed out the less evolved simian traits. The Nordic races have participated in this from the beginning, and we are as much a part of them as we might suppose. o Greys have the ability to camouflage themselves as tall Blonds through mental energy projection. Blonds never project themselves as Greys. Some Blonds seen with the Greys are physically real, but are prisoners of the Greys who have either paralyzed them or have destroyed their ability to teleport through time and other dimensions. Note: A lot of the material obtained by George Andrews has as its source a Blond that is a time traveler that escaped the Grey takeover of their system. o Both Blonds and Greys have the ability to disintegrate matter into energy and then reintegrate the energy back into matter. This ability allows them to pass through walls and to transport abductees out of their cars with the doors still locked. o The original Rigelians were the Blonds until they were invaded by the Greys, a parasitic race, who took over and interbred with them. The original Rigelians were the ones who seeded the earth. It is because of this common ancestry that terrestrial humanity is of such interest to both the Blonds and the Greys. o Terrestrial human females can be impregnated either on board ship or while they sleep in their homes. Males need not be manifested in visible form for this to occur. o The Blonds now habitate the Procyon system. The conflict between the Blonds and the Greys is in a state of temporary truce, although the conflict between the Rigelian and the Sirius system is being fought actively. o The Blonds with speech abilities will respond violently if attacked or threatened, but the telepathic ones will respond peacefully. o Blonds were sometimes mistaken for angels in earlier centuries. They do not seem to age, and consistently appear to be from 27 to 35 human years old. **************************************************************** Confused? Well, now you can see why the natural diversity of the way things are are hard to sort out for the average researcher. The probability that this information is true or partially true remains fairly high, based on analysis of what we know about abductions and general contact between humans and EBEs that has been documented. **************************************************************** Real Esoterica -- Sirius and the MIB Let's regress for a moment back to the MIB. According to John Keel, the MIB often state that they are representatives of the "Nation of the Third Eye." Based on some of the info we have already researched, it is apparent that Sirius has been in contact with us for a long time. According to George Hunt Williamson (one of the early contactees) in his book "Other Tongues, Other Flesh," the earth allies of Sirius, i.e., the secret societies, use the Eye of Horus as an insignia. This symbol has also been seen on the MIB. Secret societies believe that there is a Great White Lodge on earth. They call it Shamballa -- and consider it to be the spiritual center of the world. Now, theosophists such as Alice Bailey say that the Great White Lodge is on Sirius. If the All-Seeing-Eye is a symbol of Sirius' earth-allies and the MIB wear that symbol, and if Shamballa represents the Great White Lodge on earth -- then the MIB are emissaries of Shamballa. Sirius and Shamballa are two sides of the same coin. This is verified in the book "The Undiscovered Country," by Stephen Jenkins. Jenkins was told by Buddhist priests that Shamballa was located in the constellation of Orion. The entrance to Shamballa on earth is usually placed in the trans-Himalayan region. Some assert it is in the heart of the Gobi Desert (where there have been allegations of crashed disks and bases). According to the explorer Nicholas Roerich, there are caves in the Himalayan foothills that have subterranean passages. In one of the these passages, there is a stone door that has never been opened, because the time for its opening has not yet arrived. In 1930, Doreal founded the Brotherhood of the White Temple. He says that the entrance to Shamballa is far underground. he goes on to say that space bends around Shamballa, and that there is a warp which leads into another universe. **************************************************************** Let's get back to something we can have more of a direct handle on. Many times psychics have been called upon by investigative authorities to evaluate situations, and in many cases what they have contributed has been very helpful. This was done in the case of animal mutilations back in 1980 by Peter Jordan, who engaged several psychics to render their impressions from photos and maps of mutilations and mutilation areas. What follows is a condensation of what was found during this exercise. Name of Psychic: Ronald Mangravite o This animal has been dead a few days. o Some parts are decaying faster than others. o There is an overload of electrolytes in the body possibly due to injection of a citrate. o Something wrong with blood. Picking up higher portion of plasma which may be lymphatic fluid. o Two men working on the animal. Very sharp surgical knives. o Men dressed in black. Jumpsuits. Shiny black nylon. o Winch line coming down from chopper. o Men are skilled ex-military. o Something is going to be done with the tissue. o Flurometry connection. Spectrophotometers. o Choppers are brown or grey. o Underground implications. o Experimentation with different analytical techniques. Name of Psychic: Elisabeth Lerner o Paramilitary forces. o A serious invasion of American privacy. o Non-American Indians part of secret project. o The word "Annide." o The word "Carmine" or "Karmine." o The symbol "dk." o A new wave of mutilations will strike near southwest New Mexico. o The Hobart Company is involved in this. (Refrigeration equipment?) o Three huge, doughnut-shaped objects will be seen in conjunction with these new mutilations. o Breakthrough in research. o Muscle relaxant injections. o Someone with the name "Empeda." o This is a Mexican operation. o Names "Kielman" and "Kelman." o Institution with many Lincoln Continentals and Cadillacs. o Laboratory underground. o Lilly Pharmaceuticals. o Roman numerals IVIII [sic]. o Name "Stephano." o The number "1714." o Last name "Audler." o First name "Mase." o Last name "Audli." o Jet rocket labs nearby. o Domes above the ground. o Vehicle ID # MP 1936. Small jeeps. o Last name "Plento." o Initials "C.B.P." heads operation. Wears brown military shoes. Army. o Number "1161." o Around an oil field. o Place where oil crosses in an "X" pattern. o Chemical engineering connections. o Mustard. o Periscope device on bottom of craft. Chopper called "The Shark." o Man with blond hair. English features. High forehead. Wears square ring. Insignia reads "C.B.P." Has something to do with ammunition. Colonel. Name of Psychic: Nancy Fuchs o Dusk scene. Men talking about some animal's throat. Something missing. o Cylindrical object. o Long thick object inserted into jugular vein. o Powerful energy flow emanating from device used to kill cattle. o Feeling of tremendous anger and hostility. o Research implication. Minerals needed for research. o Intimidation of rancher Gomez. o Embryos. o Thousands of samples needed for this breeding effect. o Crossbreeding. o Animal dies in seconds. o Jolts of electricity through animal. o Breeding and genetics involved. o Army background. o Liquid-filled shoes leave no prints. o Marshall. Army. Cap with black rim and gold braid. Pompous. White-haired. Very influential. Walks into Pentagon whenever he pleases. Commission given 15-18 years ago for mutilation project when he was overseas. Grand Marshall. Friend of General MacArthur. Lives in Dakotas. Money invested. High- priority issue. Tall. Heavyset. Only 17 people know of this. o Project with $2.5 million allocated early in game for breeding experimentation. Late 1960s through Pentagon. More and more money invested every year. o Land wanted. Want to destroy ranchers prime source of income. o John Mitchell connected to this. o Howard Hughes. o Uranium connection. o Picture complex. Faction-ridden. o Interest in speeding up growth of cattle. o Importance of pancreas. **************************************************************** Well, there you have that little presentation. I don't know what exactly to make of it, but there it is. Certainly a non-UFO implication here, however, it only relates to THREE mutilations. How about the other 10,000 -- most of which have the UFO connection? What did I tell you about a multi-level reality? **************************************************************** At this point, I will put some references and excerpts from some volumes that I believe are relevant to all the things we've been talking about. Where I feel it is applicable, I will comment on them. "The Goblin Universe" (p222) The ability to materialize mental constructs is not unknown. Suppose one creates a field with the mind that is strong enough to attract supercharged particles. The particles are real but unstable in their assemblage since the stability depends on the intermediate mental component. (p223) Physical aspect of UFOs and other phenomena lie in the behavior of electromagnetic fields. (p124) If all UFO incidents were chance encounters, someone would have obtained a filmed record or a series of stills years ago. The only way that such episodes can be engineered so that they remain total mysteries is for the entities to have advance knowledge of any situation before it occurs. (p117, referencing John Keel) These entities labor to cultivate belief in various frames of reference, and then they create new manifestation which support those beliefs. (p120) Illness is common after close contact with some beings. (p122) Guy Underwood classified primary geomagnetic currents into three classes: water lines, aquastats, and track lines. Some magnetic signals appear as spirals, others are linear. Gnats and flies congregate above magnetic patterns. **************************************************************** "Extra-Terrestrials Among Us" (p2-3) On several occasions after UFOs flew over missile sites, it was found that the targeting of the missiles had changed, and the warheads had to be replaced. (p3) On 22 June 1980 a UFO that was 10 miles in diameter was reported over the Kuwait oil fields. (p4) On July 30, 1985, a UFO over Mongolia that was 10 km in diameter was reported heading south. It was sighted by a Chinese jet and reported in the "Japan Times." The Unites States ignored this report. (p8) JANAP-146 specifies up to 10 years in prison and $10,000 in fines for anyone in government service who makes unauthorized public statements about UFO phenomena. The British Official Secrets Act makes similar provisions. (p9) Many routes of UFOs take the form of an isosceles triangle. (p16) On September 14, 1978, a UFO as big as an ocean liner flew over Italy, and over Rome on the 15th and 16th. Comment: This was two weeks before Pope John Paul I was found dead under suspicious circumstances. He was killed between September 28-29. Autopsy was refused. It was rumored he intended to reveal the Fatima message of 1917. (p 20) UFOs dart around in daylight at speeds which cannot be seen. (p22) An individual having one CE experience usually has another. (p24) There is no basis to support psychiatric pathology for UFO witnesses. (p24) Dr. Brian T. Clifford (Pentagon) announces on October 5, 1982, that contact between U.S. citizens and extraterrestrials on their vehicles is illegal. Title 14, Section 1211 of the Code of Federal Regulations (adopted July 16, 1969, before the first manned lunar landing) says that anyone guilty of this becomes a wanted criminal to be jailed for one year and fined $5,000. The NASA administrator is empowered to determine WITH OR WITHOUT A HEARING that a person has been "ET-exposed" and impose INDETERMINATE quarantine under armed guard, which cannot be broken even by court order. (p89) Mars has a history of transient phenomena. (p90) Temporary brilliant spots on Mars were reported by astronomers in 1890, 1892, 1900, 1911, 1924, 1937, 1952, 1954, 1967, and 1971. The distribution was non-random. Intensely dark spots, transient in nature, were reported on Mars in 1925, 1952, and 1954. (p93) About 33% of abductees are able to remember the experiences without hypnotic regression. 66% of the abductees were alone when abducted. (p94) Some abductees did not return but vanished permanently or were found dead after a UFO encounter. (p25) Records of the 687 B.C. battle between the Assyrians and the Hebrews indicate that "a blast from heaven" reduced the bodies of 185,000 Assyrians to ashes but left their clothes intact. (p145) Morris K. Jessup died under mysterious circumstances after a copy of his book "Case for the UFO" was sent to the Chief of the Office of Naval Research (ONR) in Washington. (p146 -- comments from "Case for the UFO") o Falls from the sky of flesh, blood, reptiles, etc., were due to either spoiled food or cleaning of holding tanks. o Comments describe TWO different space races who share the planet with us without our knowledge. They are not visitors -- they have been here longer than we have. They feel more at ease in the ocean. o The little men were almost wiped out by a serpent race identified only as the "S-men." S-men are ravenous for red meat, extremely materialistic, and are greedy for power. Comment: Sounds like the Deros of Shavarian fame. (p147) Thanks to Allen Dulles in partnership with Reinhard Gehlen, the Gestapo was transplanted intact into the United States system as the CIA, without the knowledge or consent of American citizens. Comment: Remember Reagan placing wreaths on graves of SS stormtroopers at the 40th anniversary of WWII? Roots of that symbolic gesture go deep. (p147) Reference the Intelligence Identity Protection Act of 1981: Freedom to speak about anything but the CIA. Some claim that concentration camps have already been built. Activation was sealed by Executive Order Rex 84. The next REX exercise in in 1988. (p148) Jessup: "I believe that space structures of 5-10 miles in diameter are sufficiently large to produce intelligently directed storms." (p150) Alleged alien comment in annotated edition of "Case for the UFO": "Men frozen helpless make good prey." (p151) Dr. James E. McDonald thought that the Federal Power Commission was evading the evidence concerning UFO involvement in the total power failure that paralyzed New York on July 13, 1965, and dared to say so in front of a Congressional committee. (p152) On June 13, 1971, James E. McDonald was found dead under mysterious circumstances, shot through the head with a pistol by his side. (p153) Murder disguised as suicide is one of the well-known specialties of the CIA. (p153) There is ample documentation suggesting that among the highest-priority covert operations of the CIA are those supplying heroin to the Mafia. The "war on drugs" is in fact a war on the independent drug dealer who constitutes a threat to the Mafia monopoly. Comment: Additional ways to subdue the population or eliminate undesirables? (p156) Karen Silkwood's murder disguised as auto accident. (p159) George Adamski, contactee in the 1950s had a special government passport. Possible CIA disinformation agent. (p162) Although mutilations were reported in England as early as 1904-1905, ("Winter of Weirdness"), the large-scale operations there began in 1973. (p163) A rancher and his sons saw a UFO as big as a hotel which was accompanied by four smaller ones. Rectangular in shape, 300-400 feet long, and 60 feet high. A helicopter approached it and turned into a small UFO. (p163) Phantom cars appear on roads, follow people, and disappear. (p163) A rancher and his wife looked at a UFO 5/8 of a mile away and reported that two appendages emerged from the egg-shaped object. (p164) Apparently UFOs have the capability of invisibility. (p164) Materialization of a Bigfoot before a witness. (p164) Dematerialization of Bigfoot before witness who shot it with a 16-gauge shotgun at point-blank range into its stomach. (p166) On August 21, 1975, a sheriff was chasing an unmarked helicopter in his plane in southwestern Nebraska at 0430 when the lights on the helicopter went out, and the only thing seem on the ground was a missile silo. (p166) About the time mutilations began in earnest (1973 wave), a new branch of science was beginning to develop -- biogeochemistry -- analysis of mineral and oil deposits by analysis of tissues of herbivorous animals. (p168) An elderly lady in Arkansas in 1979 injured herself and was cut during a fall. The injuries were repaired by two aliens, who gave her a piece of metal with pyramids and six- pointed stars on it. The aliens told her they "consumed juice," but not the kind consumed by humans. Six weeks later, she was out looking for her dog and spotted a horse lying on its side, unconscious. Two men in white, dressed like surgeons, were at work on the horse. There were two Air Force helicopters parked in the clearing, two men in Air Force uniforms, and the same two aliens who had helped her after her fall. The lady was spotted by the group and she was overtaken by a helicopter which flashed a blue light on her which burned her clothing. Help arrived as the helicopter retreated, and she was brought to the local hospital. People having nothing to do with the hospital staff began turning up to question her. After release she was harassed at all hours by strangers who insisted on questioning her, repeating the same questions over and over again. The couple moved to a different state, only to have it start all over again. MUFON began investigating this case, but as of 1986 had not yet made public its conclusions. Research into the case began in 1980. (p171) Tissue samples taken from a carcass revealed the presence of chlorpromazine, a tranquilizer. (p171 comment by Gabe Valdez) "Whoever is doing these mutilations are highly organized and have a lot of resources." (p172) The theory of biogeochemical basis for the mutilations fails to account for the fact that mutilations are worldwide. (p174) When FBI agent Rommel was given $50K to investigate the mutilations in one district in New Mexico, all mutilations in that district stopped during the year. (p177) The Condon Report, Rommel Report, and the Warren Report all have a resemblance. (p177) The human tendency to avoid facing unpleasant facts may allow parasitic entities to "farm us." (p178) A seven-year-old heifer was found whose unborn calf had been removed with breaking the placental bag. (p181) U.S. Senate lied to by Pentagon in 1968 during Senate hearings on UFOs. (p200) In an anonymous letter to a Denver paper on April 8, 1983, it was told that the mutilations are being done by a secret government group called Delta. Animal parts are used to test effects of germ warfare and poison (cyanide and dioxin) they are testing on civilians in America. Testing is associated with black helicopters. Helicopters are also used to ferry heroin and cocaine. Delta bases said to be all underground on Indian Reservations. HQ for operations and where a lot of choppers are based in 28 miles east of Albuquerque on I-40, then 14 miles north on a dirt road into the Laguna Indian Reservation. Comment: Disinformation attempt? (p204, UPI story, February 2, 1984) Dr. James Womack at Texas A&M University announced his discovery that humans share "perfect match" chromosomes with cattle. The perfect match is with portions of the 21st chromosome pair, a strand known to carry characteristics of Mongolism or Down's Syndrome, associated with mental retardation. Dr. Womack says, "We must have more in common than previously believed." (p205, 1984 letter) A recent arrival on the nutritional scene is protomorphogens, or glandulars -- ground up glands of cattle. If one takes these for a year you get "hooked" on them. Your own glands stop producing hormones. Many EBEs have no alimentary canals and no glands. In some cancer clinics, these glandulars are used to treat cancer victims, and so are glands from human fetuses. (p206) What is happening with the mutilations would make sense in human terms if the location on which the cattle grazed was important, or the parts taken could be used geobiologically (which they aren't). (p208) UFOs are: Extraterrestrial, ultraterrestrial, interdimensional, and time travelers. (p208) Some UFOs behave as if the UFO itself was a living organism. Comment: Refer to Trevor James Constable's book "Sky Creatures," for a discussion of biological aeroforms, of "Flying Saucers at Etibi-Raa," by Wendell Stevens for a discussion of just that subject. (p208) Entities with cyborg-like traits, having both mechanical and biological features, turn up quite frequently in reports. (p208) It is odd that among the viruses there are some that look like UFOs, like T. Bacteriophage. Do some UFO have the ability to operate in the micro-dimension of viruses? Comment: In the discipline of Yoga is noted the ability to become large or small. (p209) Anyone with more access to even one more dimension than we have access to could evade our most carefully planned investigations indefinitely. (p210) Modern brain capacity: 1300cc Cro-magnon man: 1400cc Baskop man (megroid [sic] race): 1800cc The last two appeared quite suddenly. (p210) Theory of Max H. Flindt attributes paradoxically rapid development of the human brain to interbreeding between primitive humanity and ETs. According to Flindt, schizophrenia is caused by subconscious racial memory of the ET branch of the family tree, longing for home. Considerable differences between glandular and nervous systems between primitive humans and ETs would provide a basis for traumatic tension associated with regressed memory. (p210) Our civilization has forgotten the existence of other intelligent beings in the universe. (p211) The idea that Homo Sapiens is unique is becoming no longer tenable. **************************************************************** ----------Concluded in krill part 4 -------------------------------------- -- -* Don Allen *- InterNet: dona@bilver.UUCP // Amiga..for the best of us. USnail: 1818G Landing Dr, Sanford Fl 32771 \X/ Why use anything else? :-) UUCP: ..uunet!tarpit!bilver!vicstoy!dona 0110 0110 0110 Just say NO! Illuminati < MJ-12|Greys|TLC|CFR|FED|Bilderbergs > UN = "New World Order" Path: ns-mx!uunet!crdgw1!ge-dab!tarpit!bilver!dona From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy Subject: FILE: OH Krill part 4 (Conclusion) Message-ID: <1991Aug8.055411.24453@bilver.uucp> Date: 8 Aug 91 05:54:11 GMT Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL Lines: 841 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:1610 alt.conspiracy:6547 -----krill part 4 (Conclusion) -------------------------------------------------- **************** * CONFIDENTIAL * **************** A SITUATION REPORT ON OUR ACQUISITION OF ADVANCED TECHNOLOGY AND INTERACTION WITH ALIEN CULTURES by O.H. KRILL Well, as if this weren't enough, let's examine the basic allegations that were raised by Gary Stollman when he held an empty BB gun to David Horowitz on KNBC Channel 4, Los Angeles, in October, 1987. Gary clearly though that he was alone in his knowledge, and evidently turned to desperation to have the public become aware of what he knew. For the sake of brevity, I will simply summarize the allegations, and make comments where I wish to do so: o His physical father is in fact a clone created by the CIA and alien forces. o Cloning is a part of a plot to overthrow the U.S government. o The CIA maintains mental-retraining hospitals. o Phones were turned off at Rohlman Psychiatric Hospital in Cincinnati for 48 hours after his arrival. o A former CIA official had an interview on KPFK radio in which he told a college audience that the CIA has towed barges across New York Harbor that were disease-ridden. o The CIA may have created the AIDS virus to wipe out the gay population. Comment: Hmmm, where have we heard THAT before? o The CIA assassinated John F. Kennedy and the 22 material witnesses who died with two years. Comment: Hmmmm, I have heard that as well. o He demands that the Air Force release all information on UFOs. o He demands that the information about Hanger 18 at Wright-Patterson [AFB] be released. o He relates that he spoke to a girl at Florida Junior College who told him that seven of her friends had been "replaced." o The CIA doesn't trust people on computers. o Individuals at the Optimist Boys School in Pasadena were recruited by others and given false IDs and birth certificates. o There is a secret group led by the President's own staff. o There are beings around with the power to teleport instantly and do the same to others; who can read and control minds, and transform matter into other forms and create it at will. o He asks for a congressional investigation and federal protection. o He states that he cannot harm anyone with an empty BB gun. **************************************************************** Well, what do you think? [Name deleted in original, replaced with the word "MUFON"] contacted Mr. Stollman's lawyer in December, 1987, and told him that some of what Gary had said may be true. His lawyer promptly made himself scarce. **************************************************************** For some of you who keep an eye on the news, the President (Reagan) has said some mighty interesting things in some speeches of his: To the students of Fallston High School in Fallston, Maryland, on December 4, 1985, he said: "I couldn't but -- one point in our discussions with General Secretary Gorbachev -- when you stop to think that we're all God's children, wherever we may live in the world, I couldn't help but say to him, just think how easy his task and mine might be in these meetings that we held if suddenly there was a threat to this world from some other species from another planet outside in the universe. We'd forget all the little local differences that we have between our countries and we would find out once and for all that we really are all human beings on this earth together. "Well, I don't suppose we can wait for some alien race to come down and threaten us...." To the 42nd General Assembly of the United Nations, September 21, 1987: "In our obsession with antagonisms of the moment, we often forget how much unites all the members of humanity. Perhaps we need some outside universal threat to make us recognize this common bond. I occasionally think how quickly our differences worldwide would vanish if we were facing an alien threat from outside this world. And yet, I ask you, is not an alien force already among us? What could be more alien to the universal aspirations of our peoples than war and the threat of war?" Comment: Apparently Mr. Reagan doesn't realize that war is NOT alien to the aspirations of peace -- it's always been here. **************************************************************** Does Mr. Reagan know something that we know but the general public doesn't know about what is happening and what will happen within the next five years? General Types of Entities The Greys are known to be of three types: o Grey 1: 3.5 feet tall. Large head. Large slanted eyes. Worship Technology and don't care about us. Type popularized in "Communion" by Strieber. o Grey 2: Same general appearance, although has a different finger arrangement and a slightly different face. More sophisticated than Grey 1. They possess a degree of common sense and are somewhat passive. It is not known if they require the secretions needed by Grey 1. o Grey 3: Same basic type. Lips thinner. Subservient to other two types. Other entities known to frequent this planet: o Blonds/Swedes/Nordics: Known by any of these names. Similar to us. Blond hair, blue eyes. Will not break law of non- interference to help us. Would only intervene if the Greys' activity would affect other parts of the universe. o Interdimensional: Entities that can assume a variety of shapes. Basically of a peaceful nature. o Short Humanoids: 1.5 to 2.5 feet tall, skin bluish in color. Seen quite frequently in Mexico near Chihuahua. o Hairy Dwarfs: 4 feet tall. Weigh about 35 pounds. Hairy. Neutral. Respect intelligent life. o Very Tall Race: Look like us but 7-8 feet tall. United with the Swedes. o Nordic Clones: Appear similar to us but with grey tinge to their skin. These are drones created by the Greys. Child- like mentality. o Men-In-Black (MIB): Oriental or olive-skinned. Eyes sensitive to light. Eyes have vertical pupils. Very pale skin in some types. Do not conform easily to our social patterns. Usually wear black clothes, drive black cars, and wear sunglasses. In groups they all dress alike. Sometimes time-disoriented. they cannot handle a psychological "curve-ball" or interruption to their plan. Often intimidate UFO witnesses and impersonate government officials. Equivalent of our CIA. From another galaxy. Although there are some 40 or more known types of aliens visiting our world at the present time, these are the most commonly seen types. Extract of information from: "UFO Contact from Undersea," Sanchez/Stevens Section 1: Regression session, Filiberto Cardenas (subject) Event date: 3 January 1979 UFO CEIII During the regression session(s) the following information came forth: 1. Subject was taken to one of three pyramid bases. Two pyramid bases are under ocean, one on land. Subject was taken to base between Berin and Santiago of the coast of Chile. Other underwater base is in the Atlantic in an unspecified location. The base was entered through an underwater tunnel. The aliens stated that they had been there 36 months at that time. 2. Aliens told the subject that there were six (6) other individuals whom the aliens had contacted. 3. Subject stated that the aliens voiced that they were eventually going to make themselves known to the world. 4. Aliens stated that they control the Chinese, and they have provided the Chinese with a device that can "paralyze cities and towns completely." 5. Aliens stated that the device will cause a change that "is going to be something for which the world cannot wait." The Chinese are to provoke certain unspecified changes, and that in those changes, "people who are negative will disappear." 6. Subject remembers seeing (future) scenes of people running disoriented along roads, and that there is a disaster coming. 7. Details of underwater tunnel described as walls of " firmed water," not rock. The ship evidently generated a force field which repelled the water around it. 8. Devices were supposedly installed in subject's head by aliens. Subsequent x-rays revealed nothing. (Session 3) 1. First contact with these groups of aliens began 4,000 years ago. 2. It has been thousands of years since this group last descended to earth. 3. If progress on earth does not continue, aliens will use more forceful demonstrations to get their point across that we must have peace and progress. 4. Subject was interrogated for 15 days after the events by US security and intelligence services. 5. Information from aliens had also to do with "an atrocity in the plans certain forces on earth had planned." 6. Subject was seven years old when contact with aliens first occurred. 7. Aliens have ability to dematerialize their craft. 8. Aliens stated that we should beware of other alien groups who will present themselves in a good light but if they pursue "bad objectives against us they could do two things. They could destroy this planet with the same arms that this planet has, or on the contrary, transport away all our arms in one operation, which would take no more than 20 minutes of our time. They can be visible or not, whatever they choose." 8. [sic] Treatise references 81 other crossbreeds from (negative) aliens who have performed duties on earth. Half alien-half earthling = Crossbreed 9. Aliens spoke of great portions of land and whole cities will [sic] disappear. Mexico City and major cities in California. History and Operations -- Operation Trojan Horse The amusing little mystery of flying saucers slowly evolves into a complicated series of coincidences and paradoxes as we plunge deeper and deeper into the data, excluding nothing, and considering everything as objectively as possible. Our skies have been filled with "Trojan Horses" throughout history, and like the original Trojan Horse, the SEEM to conceal hostile intent. Several facts are now apparent: o The objects have always chosen to operate in a clandestine manner, furtively choosing the hours of darkness for their enigmatic activities over thinly- populated areas, where the possibility of being detected is slight. o The hostility factor is further supported by the fact that the objects chose, most often, to appear in forms which we can readily accept and explain to our own satisfaction -- ranging from dirigibles to meteors and conventional-appearing airplanes. o The objects of unusual configuration, undoubtedly constituting a deceptive minority of all the paraphysical objects flitting about in our atmosphere. In other words, flying saucers are not at all what we have hoped they were. They are a part of something else. John A. Keel called that something else "Operation Trojan Horse." When one really digs into UFO literature, it readily becomes clear that the ultraterrestrials deliberately conveyed whatever impression that would meet the available frame of reference for that time. Until 1848, the religious frame of reference was constantly used by the phenomenon. As man's technology improved many of our old beliefs were discarded and the "phenomenon" was obliged to update its manifestations and establish new frames of reference. No more objects were seen in 1947 than had been seen in 1847. We were simply seeing them in a new way. A new game was being played with us. A new game has emerged: the artifact or hardware game. The phenomenon has always obliged us by planting false evidence all over the landscape. UFO cultists trapped themselves into a hopeless situation almost from the outset. The apparent purpose of most of the landings seems to have been to advance belief in the frame of reference, not to provide absolute proof that the frame of reference is authentic. Physical Evidence All kinds of junk have fallen out of the sky throughout recorded history. Ivan T. Sanderson has in his files extensive lists that go back to Roman times. Ridiculous things such as stone pillars and heavy metal wheels have come crashing out of the blue, and there are countless cases of ice blocks, some weighing hundreds of pounds, dropping all over this planet. The flying saucers have been spewing all kinds of trash all over the landscape. In nearly every instance, these materials always prove to be ordinary earthly substances like magnesium, aluminum, chromium, and even plain old tin. Each of these incidents give the skeptics new ammunition. Mysterious hollow spheres have also been dropping out of the sky all over the world. Three such spheres were found in the Australian desert in 1963. They were about 14 inches in diameter and had a shiny polished surface. Efforts to open the spheres failed, and they were turned over to the USAF. Other metal spheres have dropped out of the sky in Mexico (1967) and Conway, Arkansas (1967). The Mexican steel ball was identified as titanium, the one in Arkansas steel. Smaller colored spheres were found scattered over the French countryside in 1966-67, as if it had been raining balls there. Where is all this stuff coming from? The same place as the stone pillars and blocks of ice. Innumerable cases of contact and landings have been flushed down the ufological drain because of the deliberate "negative factors." Sincere witnesses have actually been ruined because the amateur UFO investigators have accused them of being liars and worse. Another fascinating game which the ufonauts play with a vengeance is the "repair" gambit. Beginning in 1897, there has been an endless stream of stories and reports, many from reliable witnesses, on how they encountered a grounded UFO and observed the occupants making repairs of some kind. The basic details in all these stories are so similar that it seems as if the ufonauts are following a carefully rehearsed procedure. Generally speaking, there are three (3) types of beings observed in relation to UFOs: o Normal-looking people, including females. o Oriental, dark-skinned beings. o Unidentifiable creatures, who have made a real effort to hide from witnesses. Oddly enough, when all the reports and the data is in, the scope of the phenomenon and the overwhelming quantity of reports negates its validity. An analysis of cases indicates that flying saucers are not, in most cases, stable machines requiring fuel, maintenance, and logistical support. Most of them are, in all probability, transmutations of energy from other dimensions and do not exist in the same way that this paper exists. The UFO phenomenon seems to be largely subjective: that is, specific kinds of people become involved and are actually manipulated by the phenomenon in the same way that it manipulates matter. These subjective experiences are far more important to our study that the "random" superficial sightings. We are obliged to forget about the sightings and concentrate on the claims and experiences of the contactees. Thousands of UFO photos have been taken since 1882. There's just one problem. With very few exceptions, no two UFO photos are alike. The sightings force two unacceptable answers upon us: o All the witnesses were mistaken or lying. o Some tremendous unknown civilization is exerting an all- out effort to manufacture thousands of different types of UFOs and is sending them all to our planet. The governments of the world overtly have maintained variations of the first proposal. UFO enthusiasts accept the second. There is a third proposal which merits some attention: some "hard" objects definitely exist as temporary materializations from other dimensions. They leave indentations in the ground when they land. Witnesses have touched them and even been inside them. These "hard" objects may be decoys to cover the multitudinous activities of the "soft" objects. The "soft" objects hold one of the keys of the mystery. There are countless sightings of objects which changed size and shape in front of witnesses who often get the impression that it was alive, that it was not behaving like a mechanical object at all. There is no question at all that there are intelligences that can manipulate or materialize any kind of object into our dimension. Let's take a look, for a second, at the electromagnetic spectrum. As you know, our visual spectrum makes up a small portion of the whole. Look at what's involved with UFOs: Ultraviolet Blue UFO ENTRY FIELD _________________ Cyan ____________________________________ Green Visible Yellow Red __________________ Spectrum Magenta _________________ Infra-red UFO DEPARTURE Heat FIELD Radio If you will relate this to cases that you are familiar with, as far as appearance, spectrum shift when in flight, etc., you will see the applicability of the above diagram. When UFO stabilize in our dimension they radiate energy on all frequencies and become glowing white. Radical maneuvers require a frequency alteration, which produces color changes. It is interesting to note that in Blue Book Report #14, they replaced the phrase "Electromagnetic Phenomenon" with the word "Unknown" in a majority of those cases. Why? There is no doubt that again, a situation exists where we have multiple realities within the UFO realm as well. It is clear that we are not dealing with random ET visitors. It has an extreme element of intention to do with all of it. Mutilations started in April, 1897, with the abduction of Alexander Hamilton's calf, witnessed by several people. That is one of the constants that has been with us that has not changed frame of reference. How many people give thought to the three dark-skinned wise men who appeared before the birth of Jesus, spread the reality of the happening, and disappeared again. All the dark-skinned men in threes. MIB. It makes you wonder. Hmmmm. Charting the Enigma Well, here we are again. Taking a sample of 33% of 10,000 or so cases, or about 3,330 cases, we find that 730 are so-called Type I, a low-level object observed and reported by reliable witnesses. It was found that 2,600 were Type II, high-altitude objects performing in a controlled manner and distinct from normal aircraft and natural phenomena. The time of the sightings depends on where you are. If you are in a rural area, sightings conveniently begin after 10 p.m. A populated area would have them between 2 a.m. and 4 a.m. For some reason, in many "flaps," Wednesday had about 20.5% of the sightings. Hmmm. Now, if the UFO phenomenon (and I dislike that word) had a purely psychic basis then I would think there would be more sightings on a Saturday, when people are statistically out and about than on Wednesday. There are notable exceptions to everything of course, one of which was the "flap" of August 16, 1966, which was on a Tuesday. Reports seem to cluster within political boundaries of states, as if there were a methodical exploration of states from border to border. If the UFO were a natural occurrence, one would expect otherwise. Thousands of sightings can be fitted into the "great circle" route, and often the dates are staggered so that it appears that the phenomenon moves systematically from point to point. Every state in the United States has from two to ten "windows." These are areas where UFOs appear repeatedly year after year. The objects will appear in these places and pursue courses confined to sectors with a radius of about 200 miles. The great circle from Canada (not to be confused with the traditional Great Circle) in the northwest through the central states and back into northeast Canada is a major window. Hundreds of smaller windows lie within that circle. Another major window is centered in the Gulf of Mexico and encompasses much of Mexico, Texas and the Southwest. As mentioned previously, many windows center directly over area of magnetic deviation. UFOs seem to congregate about the highest available hills in these window areas. They become visible in these centers and then radiate outward, traveling sometimes 100-200 miles before disappearing again. **************************************************************** Among the great heaps of neglected and ignored UFO data, we find hundreds of "minipeople" accounts. These are very rarely published anywhere because they tend to be so unbelievable. Most of them are identical to the fairy and gnome stories of yesteryear. Witnesses to these events can experience conjunctivitis, akinesia (paralysis), amnesia, and the other effects often noted by witnesses to more conventional events. One notable event is one that occurred in Seattle, Washington, in the latter part of August, 1965. A woman awoke around 2 a.m. and discovered she could not move a muscle or make a sound. Her window was open, and suddenly a tiny, football-sized dull-grey object floated through the window and hovered over the carpet near her bed. Three legs lowered from the object and it settled to the floor. A small ramp extended from it and five or six tiny people clambered out and seemed to work on some kind of repairs on the object. They wore tight-fitting clothing. When they were finished, they got in and the object took off and sailed out the window. At that point, she was able to move. The case was investigated by J. Russell Jenkins of Seattle. You can readily see why almost none of these kinds of stories ever appear in print, except in occult-oriented literature. Nevertheless, if we hope to assess the true UFO situation, we must examine all these stories. We can learn nothing by considering only those incidents which are emotionally and intellectually acceptable to us. **************************************************************** TIME is one of the most important aspects of the UFO thing. It plays a strange but significant role. Part of the answer may not lie in the stars but in the clock ticking on your fireplace. Our world exists in three dimensions. We can move in many directions within these dimensions. Space does not exist except when we make it exist. To us, the distance between atoms in our matter is so minute that it can only be calculated with hypothetical measurements. Yet, if we lived on an atom, and our size was relative to its size, the distance to the next atom would seem awesome. There is another man-made measurement called time. Unlike the other three dimensions, time has us seemingly trapped. Time becomes very real to us, and it appears that we couldn't live without it. Yet time doesn't really exist at all. This moment exists to us. Does this mean the same moment is being shared by other planets? The UFO phenomenon does seem to be controlled. It does follow intelligent patterns. If the objects themselves are manifestations of higher energies, then something has to manipulate those energies somehow and reduce them to the visible frequencies. Not only do they enter the visible frequencies, but they take forms which seem physical and real to us, and they carry out actions which seem to be intelligent. Thus we arrive at the source. The source has to be a form of intelligent energy operating at the highest possible point of the frequency spectrum. If such an energy exists at all, it might permeate the universe and maintain equal control of each component part. Because of its very high frequency, so high that the energy particles are virtually standing still, the source has no need to replenish itself in any way that would be acceptable to our environmental sciences. It could actually create and destroy matter by manipulating the lower energies. It would be timeless, because it exists beyond all time fields. It would be infinite because it is not confined by three-dimensional "space." Children. Children figure neatly into this, and they always have. The child's mind, especially before the so-called age of reason when the logic circuits begin to form, is a clear instrument, open and uninfluenced by opinions and conclusions. This is an important point in the UFO mystery. Perhaps if we were in a pure energy state, each particle of energy would itself serve as a synapse, and information could be stored by a slight alteration in frequency. All the memory fragments of a rose, for example, would be recorded at one frequency, and the whole energy form could tune into that memory by adjusting frequencies, as we might adjust a radio receiver. In other words, no complex circuitry would be required. No body would be necessary. The energy patterns would not need material form. It would permeate the entire universe. It could surround you completely at this very moment and be aware of all the feeble impulses of low energy passing through your brain. If it so desired, it could control those pulses and thus control your thoughts. Man has always been aware of this intelligent energy or force. He has always worshipped it. Our first conclusion is that the UFOs originate from beyond our own time frame or time cycle. Our second conclusion is that the source has total foreknowledge of human events and even of individual lives. Since time and space are not absolutes, these two conclusions are compatible. It is that all human events occur simultaneously when viewed by a greater intelligence. If a greater intelligence wants to communicate with a lower form, all kinds of problems are presented. The communication must be conducted in a manner which will be meaningful and understandable to the lower life form. An acceptable frame of reference must be found and utilized. UFO phenomenon, especially the "soft" ones, are frequently reflective; that is, the observed manifestations seem to be deliberately tailored and adjusted to the individual beliefs and attitudes of the witnesses. Contactees are given information which, in most cases, conforms to their beliefs. UFO researchers who concentrate on one particular aspect or theory find themselves inundated with seemingly reliable reports which seem to substantiate that theory. John Keel's extensive experiences with this reflective factor led him to carry out weird experiments which confirmed that a large part of the reported data is engineered and deliberately false. The witnesses are not the perpetrators, but merely the victims. The apparent purpose of all this false data is multifold. Much of it is meant to create confusion and diversion. Some of it has served to support certain beliefs which were erroneous but which would serve as stepping-stones to the higher, more complex truth. Whole generations have come and gone, happily believing in the false data, unaware that they were mere links in the chain. If it were all understood too soon, we might crumble under the weight of the truth. This earth is covered with windows into those other unseen worlds. If we had the instruments to detect them, we would find that these windows are the focal points for super high-frequency waves -- the "rays" of ancient lore. These rays might come from Orion or the Pleiades as the ancients claimed, or they might be part of the great force that emanates throughout the universe. The UFOs have given us the evidence that such rays exist. Now, slowly, we are being told why. **************************************************************** It is also apparent that some entities are having a good laugh at our expense. As mentioned before, literature indicates that the phenomenon carefully cultivated the religious frame of reference in early times, just as the modern manifestations have carefully supported the extraterrestrial frame of reference. The Devil's emissaries of yesteryear have been replaced by the mysterious "men in black." A major, but little-explored, aspect of the UFO phenomenon is therefore theological and philosophical rather than purely scientific. The UFO problem can never be untangled by physicists and scientists unless they are men who also are schooled in the other disciplines. The earth was occupied before man arrived or was created. That's an important point to consider. The original occupants were paraphysical and possessed the power of transmutation of matter. Man was the interloper. The inevitable conflict arose between physical man and the paraphysical owners of the planet. Man accepted the interpretation that this conflict raged between his creator and the Devil. The religious viewpoint has always been that the Devil has been attacking man (trying to get rid of him) by causing havoc upon him. There is historical and modern proof that this may be so. It is interesting that parapsychologists have long concluded that the paralysis that contactees experience is a contributing cause; that the entity may materialize by utilizing energy from the percipient himself. John Keel has in his files hundreds of cases, some of which have now been investigated by qualified psychiatrists, in which young men and women obsessed with the UFO phenomenon have suffered frightening visits from apparitions, followed up by mysterious black Cadillacs which appeared and disappeared suddenly, and have been terrified into up their pursuit of the UFOs. The phenomenon is again reflective in nature; the more frightened the victim becomes, the more the manifestations are escalated. Think about it. **************************************************************** The Other Side of the Coin There is a balance in nature, and there also seems to be a balance in the UFO picture. People have actually died after exposure to the gamma and UV rays from UFOs. But other people have actually had their ailments cured by similar rays. Occult literature is filled with accounts of this type. Except for those who might be specially constructed for incubus-succubus activities, it does appear that our "angels" and "spacemen" come from a world, in many cases, with sex -- and very probably, a world without an organized society; a world in which each individual is merely a unit in the whole and is totally controlled by the collective intelligence or energy mass of that whole. In other words, these beings, or some of them anyway, have no free will. They are slaves of a very high order. Often they try to convey this to percipients with their statements, "We are One," "We are in bondage." We face a great task in trying to isolate the UFO phenomenon from the larger and more important "big picture," the overall situation of which the UFOs are merely a small part. Elemental beings are another aspect of the world we live in. Children see them more than adults, perhaps for the reasons described before. Historical records certainly indicate that the little people have always existed all over this planet; that they possess the power of flight, the power of invisibility, and, to varying degrees, the power to dominate and control the human mind. Accounts of little humanoids with supernatural powers can be found in almost every culture. The manifestations have remained the same throughout history. Only our interpretations of those events have changed. It brought the birth of Spiritualism, which was in its heyday in the 1850s and 1860s, and was just another form of communication between the ultraterrestrials and ourselves. UFO flaps also parallel outbreaks of poltergeist cases. It all ties in together. Assuming that each discovered historical report represents a larger number of unpublished or undiscovered reports, just as today's UFO reports represent on the average 250 unreported or unpublished sightings, we can conclude that a flap condition existed, for example, in the years 1820, 1834, 1844, 1846, and 1849. We also find that there was an outbreak of poltergeists in 1835, 1846, and 1849. As the 19th century progressed, reporting improved, and we are able to make more precise correlations. A UFO flap took place in 1850, and there was also a series of poltergeist cases. A larger poltergeist outbreak occurred in 1867, following flaps in 1863-64. UFO activity became more intense beginning in 1870, and there were notable flaps in 1872, 1877, and 1879. The 1880s produced a major explosion of all kinds of phenomena, including the sudden disappearance of people. Poltergeist cases were in abundance in that decade, particularly in the big flap years of 1883 and 1885. Astrophysicist Morris K. Jessup labeled the years 1877-87 the "Incredible Decade" after scouring astronomical journals of the period. Astronomers made some remarkable discoveries during those years. The previously unobserved satellites of Mars popped into view in 1877, new craters appeared on the moon, all kinds of strange objects flitted around the upper atmosphere. **************************************************************** The trance phenomenon deserves extensive study because so many aspects of it are directly related to the contactee phenomenon. In both, you will find the same contradictions. There seem to be both good and evil forces at work. The good guys latch onto people with particularly receptive minds and turn them into trance mediums and the bad guys use the same methods to tamper with the minds of contactees and even to commit murder indirectly. Since incidents of these types can be traced throughout history, it seems probably that these forces have always been here on this planet. do the ultraterrestrials really care about us? There is much evidence to suggest that they don't. They care only to the extent that we can fulfill our enigmatic use to them. There have been innumerable psychic hoaxes for the past 150 years, and many of these parallel the UFO hoaxes. In ufology we have to contend with the teenager's hot air balloon, and in psychic phenomenon we have to worry about youngsters firing rocks at houses. There are, however, more UFO sightings than there are plastic balloons, and more poltergeists dumping rocks in living rooms than there are wild-eyed youngsters with slingshots. There are also more ultraterrestrial entities than either the occultists or the UFO researchers can dream of. Giant winged beings, usually described as headless, are an integral part of the UFO phenomenon. Winged human forms have been seen flying over many areas of the world. John A. Keel wrote a book called the "Mothman Prophecies" and Gray Barker a book called "The Silver Bridge" that go into some detail. They are usually described as having blazing red eyes set deep in their shoulders. **************************************************************** On May 13, 1917, three girls in Portugal were in the meadows of a place called Cova da Iria outside of Fatima, Portugal, when they saw a flash of light in the clear sky. They ran for shelter under a tree, thinking that was lightning. When they reached the tree, they stopped in amazement, for there hovering just above a 3-foot evergreen nearby, a brilliant globe of light hung suspended. Within this globe there was an entity garbed in a luminous white robe with a face of light which dazzled and hurt the eyes. The figure stated that it was from heaven, and asked the girls to come there on the 13th day, for six months in succession. On October 13, 1917, an estimated 70,000 people had gathered at the site. Suddenly the crowd screamed, for something came through the clouds: a huge silver disk which rotated rapidly as it descended towards the crowd. It seemed to change color, going through the spectrum. These gyrations continued for ten minutes. Miles from there, others were also watching the same object. The incident at Fatima was obviously a carefully planned and deliberately executed demonstration. The major prophecies of Fatima had been written down and sealed in an envelope, and turned over to the Vatican. They were supposed to be revealed to the world in 1960. The secret of Fatima? One Pope was murdered after only 30 days in office when the Vatican thought he would reveal it. It is said to be a prediction of the end of the world. The demonstration was therefore a failure as far as the ultraterrestrials were concerned. Such demos proved highly effective in Biblical times, but times were changing and new methods were called for. A similar event such as Fatima took place in Garabandal, Germany, on July 2, 1961. Even more startling, on the entity's right side they could see "a square of red fire framing a triangle with an eye and some writing. The lettering was in an old Oriental script." The Third Eye. Haven't we heard of that before? Remember the Nation of the Third Eye -- the MIB. etc? **************************************************************** ADDENDUM BY THE AUTHOR Gravitational Propulsion Well, I have gotten this far in explaining some things to you. I might as well turn to my favorite subject of all -- gravitational propulsion. The best place to start is with the efforts of a personal acquaintance of mine who had the good fortune to meet in England -- Mr. J. R. Searl. His investigations into gravitational propulsion have proven to be quite revealing -- he's done it, and I want to tell you about it. In 1949, he was employed by the Midlands Board as an electronic fitter. He was very enthusiastic about the subject of electricity, though he had no formal education on the subject other than was required by his job. Unhindered by conventional ideas about electricity, he carried out his own investigation into the subject. During work on electrical motors and generators, he noticed that a small electromotive force (EMF) was produced by the spinning metal parts -- the negative toward the outside and the positive toward the rotational axis. In 1950, he experimented with rotating slip rings and measured a small EMF on a conventional meter. He also noticed that when the rings were spinning freely and no electrical current was taken, his hair bristled. His conclusions were that free electrons in the metal were spun out by centrifugal force being produced by the static field in the metal. He then decided to build a generator on the same principle. It had a segmented rotor disc, passing through electromagnets at its periphery. The electromagnets were energized from the rotor, and were intended to boost the EMF. By 1952, the first generator had been constructed and was about three feet in diameter. It was tested in the open by Searl and a friend. The armature was set in motion by a small engine. The device produced the expected electrical power, but at an unexpectedly high potential. At relatively low armature speeds a potential of the order of 10^5 volts was produced, as indicated by static effects on nearby objects. The really unexpected then occurred. While still speeding up, the generator lifted and rose to a height of about 50 feet above the ground, breaking the union between itself and the engine. Here it stayed for a while, still speeding up and surrounding itself with a pink glow. This indicated ionization of air at a much reduced pressure of about 10^-3 mm Hg. More interesting was the side effect, causing local radio receivers to go on by themselves. Finally, the whole generator accelerated at a fantastic rate and is thought to have gone off into space. Since that day, Searl and others have made some ten or more small flying craft, some of which have been similarly lost, and have developed a form of control. Larger craft have been built -- some 12 feet and two 30 feet in diameter. Once the machine has passed a certain threshold of potential voltage, the energy output exceeds the input. The energy output seems to be virtually limitless. We made some measurements when I was there, and as far as we could see, the estimated output is somewhere in the vicinity of 10^13 to 10^15 watts. Above what appears to be the threshold potential, some 10^13 volts, the generator and attached parts become inertia-free. There is also some "matter snatch" upon acceleration away from the ground, since it tends to take a little "turf" with it when it goes. Analyzing what is happening is fairly easy. What the generator is doing is placing a "stress" on the ambient space around it. The space breaks down to provide the magnetism to relieve the stress, but the energy by-product is absorbed by the generator, which reinforces the field. It should be noted at this point that only a very small amount of space fabric passes through the craft and an even smaller amount is converted for energy. However, I have noticed that small changes in etheric forces lead to large physical effects. It was aptly demonstrated and I was impressed. Recently, Mr. Searl had (1987) a brush with authorities, when he began simply generating his own power for his own house. Now he doesn't have a very large house, but the Utility Board didn't like the fact that they had lost their monopoly. Now he lives in Birmingham under an assumed name. Simple, eh? ----- END OF FILE ------------------------------------------------------- -- -* Don Allen *- InterNet: dona@bilver.UUCP // Amiga..for the best of us. USnail: 1818G Landing Dr, Sanford Fl 32771 \X/ Why use anything else? :-) UUCP: ..uunet!tarpit!bilver!vicstoy!dona 0110 0110 0110 Just say NO! Illuminati < MJ-12|Greys|TLC|CFR|FED|Bilderbergs > UN = "New World Order" Path: ns-mx!uunet!crdgw1!ge-dab!tarpit!bilver!dona From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy Subject: Web of Conspiracy intro/README Message-ID: <1991Aug8.055902.24581@bilver.uucp> Date: 8 Aug 91 05:59:02 GMT Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL Lines: 42 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:1611 alt.conspiracy:6548 The Web of Conspiracy intro: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ This text is a channelling from a group who call themselves "Cosmic Awareness". I do not know anything about them and am attempting to check them out at this time. This file goes into some detail about the (alleged) underground bases and touches on the Dulce and Area 51 topics. I would call this a controversial text, myself. Please read this at your OWN RISK. It has *not* been verified or otherwise checked out, to my knowledge. I will leave it with you to do with as you see fit. Since this is (yet another) huge text, I will give the sizes here: (minus message headers) Web part 1: 27267 bytes Web part 2: 26636 bytes Web part 3: 27914 bytes Web part 4: 32776 bytes ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Please note: I only post these files to educate people what is currently available. They are for informational purposes only and as such, should NOT be taken at face value. There is NO substitute for research and investigation. If you want to ridicule the information, fine...but I draw the line at personal slams, so please do yourselves a favor and avoid ad homenim attacks and we will get along fine. Let's endeavor to be a notch above the sci.skeptics and alt.paranormal obnoxiousness :-) Don -- -* Don Allen *- InterNet: dona@bilver.UUCP // Amiga..for the best of us. USnail: 1818G Landing Dr, Sanford Fl 32771 \X/ Why use anything else? :-) UUCP: ..uunet!tarpit!bilver!vicstoy!dona 0110 0110 0110 Just say NO! Illuminati < MJ-12|Greys|TLC|CFR|FED|Bilderbergs > UN = "New World Order" Path: ns-mx!uunet!crdgw1!ge-dab!tarpit!bilver!dona From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy Subject: FILE: Web of Conspiracy part 1 Message-ID: <1991Aug8.060232.24671@bilver.uucp> Date: 8 Aug 91 06:02:32 GMT Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL Lines: 600 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:1612 alt.conspiracy:6549 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This information is presented for your persusal and is a continuation of my policy of informing the public what is currently available. The content of this information does NOT necessarily reflect the personal views of the poster,nor should the views,opinions,statements or claims represented in the following be accepted by anyone reading these texts at *face* value. If this interests you, please endeavor to research it yourself and investigate it to *your* satisfaction, and as such I will leave it in your hands to either prove it or de-bunk it :-) As I do not have a great amount of time available to pursue follow-ups exclusively, comments to me should be directed to dona@bilver.uucp in mail. --------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------WEB part 1 -------------------------------------------------------------- REVELATIONS OF AWARENESS The New Age Cosmic Newsletter Cosmic Awareness Communications P.O. Box 119 Olympus, Washington 83507 Helping People Become Aware 90-10 Issue No. 363 SPECIAL REPORT "NIGHTMARE HALL" ------- "GOD" AT WORK ON LEVEL 6 THE WEB OF CONSPIRACY: (THE ALIEN PRESENCE): (PART 7)... THE UNDERGROUND CITY AT DULCE, NEW MEXICO COSMIC AWARENESS is the Force that expressed Itself through Jesus of Nazareth, the Buddha, Krishna, Mohammed, Edgar Cayce and other great avatars who served as `Channels' for the `Heavenly Father' and who speaks again today as the world begins to enter the `New Age' of spiritual consciousness and awareness. Since 1963 Cosmic Awareness has been communicating through carefully trained channels. This information is for those who desire to help in bringing in the New Age. Throughout the thousands of `Readings' given through these various channels, Cosmic Awareness tells us not to believe anything, but to question, explore, doubt, and discover for yourself, through your own channel what is the truth. Cosmic Awareness will only `indicate' and `suggest'. Neither C.A.C. or any of the Interpreters is responsible for anything Cosmic Awareness states in any of these readings, nor does C.A.C. or the Interpreters necessarily agree with the statements of Cosmic Awareness. The Interpreters interpret the energies as they see them in trance levels and are not personally responsible for what is said. The Interpreters published herein have no connection with, nor control over the editorial comments and material, including illustrations. This is entirely the responsibility of the editor. Members of C.A.C. are invited to send in questions of general interest to ask Awareness for possible publication in this newsletter. Paul Shockley, Interpreter ABOUT THE INFORMATION ON ALIENS THAT FOLLOWS (Excerpts from a C.A.C. General Reading) May 12, 1990 Question: This information on the alien presence, that has not yet been published: Does Awareness suggest that this take priority over the other more spiritual information, because of the possibility that `window' could close sooner than expected, or does Awareness see this `window' remaining open and the alien information being sent out over a period of six months or a year and be balanced with other, less negative, information? COSMIC AWARENESS: This Awareness suggests that the most poignant, most precise, most important information be released first; that the other information may be seen as likened unto the flesh that fills out the skeleton. This Awareness indicates there could come a time wherein this information would be stopped. There could be circumstances that would prevent the release of the information and this information, indeed, does need to be released. There are many releasing information, but in proportion at this time, less than 1 percent of the population has any inkling of what is really going on, and at least 5 percent should know. This Awareness indicates that probably one person in a thousand,--even fewer at this time,--has ever heard of the information released even by Cooper, or the elements involved in such information. Probably only one in a thousand has ever heard of MJ-12...perhaps even fewer than one in a thousand. It is likely that one in a half million, or quarter of a million, has heard of Nightmare Hall. This Awareness indicates, of course, this is changing, and more and more are hearing of this. This Awareness indicates that such information could be given to tabloids and immediately, upon publication, these figures would change enormously. This Awareness indicates a recent tabloid did include information relating to Cooper and to Lazar, and much of the population became aware, but to a very limited degree, since the article was only approximately one-half page in length. This Awareness indicates that the important thing is that entities share the information with others who have some curiosity. Not to think that they can force C.A.C. to prove this information by bringing it to the authorities of their state or federal government or agencies, but to search for themselves, to see if this is accurate. If you have questions or doubts about the accuracy of this information, go out and become a researcher for yourself. Or, if you don't wish to do so, toss the paper into the garbage can and forget it. There are some entities who seem to think that if they hear something that offends them, they should turn it over to an authority and make the authority check out the source to see if it's true. This Awareness indicates that It is giving you the sources, so that you can check them for yourself. If you do not like the information, close your ears, cease your publication, stop your subscription, or don't bother to read it. If you want to be aware, if you want knowledge, if you want truth, you have to be open to hearing even things you don't really like to hear. This Awareness indicates that this information isn't for everyone; it is for the courageous, it is for the strong, it is for the daring, it is for those who dare to be aware. This Awareness indicates that it is not the responsibility of C.A.C. to check the validity of all of this information, it is simply passing along information. It is giving you the sources, so that you can check the validity. This Awareness indicates that in checking the validity, you don't go to the people who are unaware, and you don't check on a whistle-blower by going to the one who's had the whistle blown against them. Thus, if Karen Silkwood blows the whistle on some nuclear plant, or group of people who are causing some environmental hazards, you don't go and ask those in charge of the creation of the hazards whether Karen Silkwood has her facts straight. You don't ask the fox in the henhouse if it has seen a fox in the henhouse. This Awareness indicates that unless entities understand the nature and purpose of this communication, to give them enough information that they may search further for themselves if they so desire---and there have been many over the years who have desired.-- in fact, almost demanded,--information about UFO's. If the information is given, and entities do not like the information, that is their problem. They simply can ignore the information. You do not have to attempt to rewrite the information. If you do not like the story War of the Worlds, turn off your radio; don't expect to be able to rewrite the script. This Awareness indicates that there are many who have demanded and requested for over a decade that this Awareness gives information relating to the UFO phenomenon. Such information would have likely resulted in the death of the individuals herein present had It given information previously. It is only recently that even the higher authorities have become aware of the activities of the aliens in regard to some of these atrocities, to the point where they have had enough dissension within their own ranks to debate whether to let the public know. It is only recently that a few involved in the inner circles of knowers,--having knowledge about UFO's,--have had the courage to release information in spite of death threats, in spite of knowing that others have been killed for far less. This Awareness indicates that with this reality, with this opportunity, this window that has suddenly opened, you who have received the information from these entities and comments on this from this Awareness, you are likened unto an elite, privileged few. The chances of having such information is so remote,--less than one in a million, or one in 50 million people at this time, know what you know. This Awareness suggests you do not expect too much, and that you help in the dissemination of such information; but that you do it in a way that is appropriate. This Awareness indicates that you not endanger yourself, that you now endanger others in the way you disseminate the information. ----------------------------------------- THE WEB OF CONSPIRACY: THE ALIEN PRESENCE (PART 7)--(THE UNDERGROUND CITY) (PART 1) HOW TO PROTECT YOURSELF FROM BEING MONITORED OR ABDUCTED BY ALIENS (C.A.C. General Reading, May 11, 1990) QUESTION: Awareness, we're here tonight for a general C.A.C. reading, with questions sent in by the membership. Does Awareness have an opening message? COSMIC AWARENESS: This Awareness suggests that entities may take precautions in regard to protecting themselves in the following manner. (This is in reference to those times in which an entity may feel the effect of a monitoring device, or that which appears to be a monitoring energy and they feel or hear in their ear, or feel around their head, which occurs from time to time with some entities; that in many cases, not all, but in many cases, this monitoring is done from alien technology). How the Aliens Select Victims for Abduction This Awareness indicates that one may ask: How do the aliens select people whom they are to abduct? This Awareness indicates that they select these entities from vibrations in the brainwave pattern that they seek for their particular interest or needs; that the selection of a particular type may vary from time to time and depending on what their purposes are, they may select a person at one time which they would have overlooked at a different time. This Awareness indicates that it is possible to avoid those brainwave patterns that aliens would seek in their selection process by wrapping oneself in White Light. This Awareness suggests that in the first place, the least likely person an alien would seek would be one whose brainwave pattern indicates a socially strong individualistic entity. When you have a strong identification, knowing who in fact you really are, and have a strong connection with the spiritual essence of the highest, without much fear and without being easily swayed or easily influenced, you are less likely to become a candidate for abduction. The more vulnerable and easily influenced you are, the more gullible you are, the more naive you are and the more distraught your thinking may be, the more you will tend to fit into the types of candidates that are usually abducted. This Awareness indicates that having a strong will also is a negative for aliens in regard to abduction. Also, aliens do not, if they are involved in wishing to use glandular substances or eat the entity, they do not like the effects of chocolate, coffee, cigarettes, or sugar or other types of addictive type foods and drugs in the system. They prefer, this especially in regard to the reptilials; they prefer the more pure essences without toxins. That this might be argued as a plus for these vices. This Awareness indicates on the other hand, the use of drugs and alcohol can be the very thing that would distort a person's thinking to make them more likely to be a candidate for abduction, for other purposes. The best protection one can have for oneself during the time of monitoring, because the monitoring process is designed to read these brain vibrations; the best protection is to wrap yourself in White Light, visualize the highest frequencies of Divinity coming down over you from the Divine Being Itself. Thus, you can call on the High Self, call on the Christ, call on God, call on anything that you see as being the Highest and Best. If you are in to Buddhism, call on Buddha. If you are in to any of the other religions, call on the highest divinity that you can call on, and see this entity covering you with a shower of Light, wrapping you with Divine Light energy while this monitoring is in process. It will sufficiently block the readings of the aliens if indeed they are the forces monitoring you. This Awareness indicates that this is a psychological defense that you may use in regard to the psychoelectronic monitoring that aliens frequently do in their hunting process. This Awareness indicates the term generally used is the `harvesting' process. They see this action as a kind of harvesting. (Follow-up Question): Vikki When I sensed that sound in my head, I automatically, almost like a reflex, repeated the Law of Love. Does this afford protection, or should I change? COSMIC AWARENESS: This can be beneficial. It can help to say the Law of Love. It is better to visualize the Light energy coming down over you. If you can incorporate the two without losing the visionary image of the White Light coming down so that you're saying the Law of Love at the same time, you are clearly visualizing this love being showered over you, it can be even more effective. AN ACCOUNT OF SEEING UFO'S AND HEARING `CRICKED' SOUNDS QUESTION: a sort of personal question from J.R., which is along this line. She writes: "The night I saw two saucer-shaped crafts, just outside my bathroom window in West Virginia: Whose craft were they and what were they doing in my yard? Also, was it in response to the energy of my astonishment that they immediately took off? Also, were they related to other craft seen in the area, the one written up in a local paper, the ones Dr. Jenkins said visited his family regularly; and currently: why am I hearing the sound of crickets whenever it is quiet enough to hear it? Is this an effect of meditation, stress, UFO's or physiological malfunction?" COSMIC AWARENESS: This Awareness indicates that It suggests that you be most attentive and cautious; that these entities were not Pleiadians; that the Pleiadians essentially have abandoned this planet temporarily and may not be able to return. There are some entities from Sirius who are benevolent beings. These were not the entities from Sirius either. There are some humans in saucers from the technology that has been acquired from the alliance with the Greys; that the Greys in some cases are not as vicious or hostile as others. In regard to the entities whom you saw, it appears that these were humans of your government testing craft in the general area without a desire to be noticed; that they did not recognize your presence when first landing in the area. How the `Good' UFO Will Contact You This Awareness indicates that it is very important however, to avoid any contact with those of UFO's unless you are absolutely sure that these are Pleiadians or from Sirius, and these entities will often give you ways by which you can be absolutely sure. This Awareness indicates they will make themselves gradually known over a period of time before contacting anyone in a close encounter. This Awareness indicates that they tend to set up appointments telepathically, letting you know that they will be there at a certain time, where to look, where to expect them. Anything other than this kind of appointment should be considered suspect of the more malevolent type aliens; that the aliens will be tending, and have tended to become more bold in their abductions and this may increase as they are increasing in number. This Awareness indicates the increase of approximately 20,000 per month in recent months has been a kind of average influx during the three days of the full moon. Look for Holes or Marks on Your Body This Awareness indicates that these entities generally going to the bases which then allow them to traverse underground to other places in other areas through these underground tunnels. Anyone who has seen a UFO should also double-check their memory, trying to recall if there were any marks on their body or energy weaknesses shortly thereafter, for in many cases, an entity will see a UFO, be abducted for a certain length of time, usually on the average of two hours, anywhere from twenty minutes to two hours, then released, and the entity will not remember having been abducted, but will simply remember having seen the UFOs or whatever took place prior to the abduction. This Awareness indicates that if, in examining oneself one finds holes, such as in the back of the ear, or chin, or a pain in the nose, or in the back of the head, or somewhere else on the body or in the naval area or the genitalia area, there is good reason to suspect that an abduction and experimentation or implanting has taken place. This Awareness indicates that generally, the memory is gone, but the subconscious effects and feeling of violation will endure and cause severe problems thereafter. Most entities having been abducted benefit only from therapy that is similar to that of rape cases. The action being very much like that of rape, in which an entity has been violated against his or her will, and the feeling of having been violated can create severe hostility and make one feel one is violated and a victim, affecting many of the entity's relationships and activities thereafter. It is important for entities to get help when such an event is realized. This Awareness suggests however, that it is equally important that entities not fake an abduction just for attention, because such action can cause you other kinds of problems that you may not really desire. It may be that, for example, you find yourself at some future time being looked at as an abductee when in fact you aren't, and in some ways, you may feel you have classified yourself into a certain category that you no longer want to wear as a label. This Awareness indicates that it is not something that entities should fake for attention or as a means of self-importance; that generally speaking, entities could not fake the action anyway and will be embarrassed and found out when in deeper therapy. FOLLOW-UP QUESTION: Is there any significance to the cricket sound she's been hearing? COSMIC AWARENESS: This Awareness indicates that this is not seen clearly. This Awareness suggests the entity may wish to pursue further investigation in this regard to determine whether this might be the result of an implant which the entity does not recall receiving. It also could be the result of the close proximity of the craft and vibration and radiation given off from the craft which may be affecting her. The energy is not seen as to why this is occurring, if it still is occurring for the entity. This Awareness indicates the entity may wish to read THE GULF BREEZE SIGHTINGS in which this writer tells about an attempt by the aliens to abduct him, wherein thereafter he always heard a sound, vibration in his head, or a hum, when the craft came anywhere near, even though others could not hear that humming sound. This Awareness indicates that approximately one in thirty-five or one in forty entities have been abducted or have in some way received implants; that not all implants have been effected in the craft. How the Aliens Enter a Bedroom to Implant (Who are the Candidates for Implants?) These aliens have the ability, in wearing certain types of packs on their backs, to move through walls or through rooftops, to come right into one's home, even into one's bedroom, while an entity sleeps, and to give an implant. This is very rare that this occurs however, and in most cases, the implants have been given to entities who have worked in and around government operated bases or alien operated bases, or people who work in government occupations, in order that the aliens have some control over these entities. That these are the more likely candidates for implants. It is not seen as a likelihood that persons operating in more socially oriented occupations, even if in government, such as the post office, or the revenue department, or commerce department, that these would be special candidates for implants, but more toward the types who would work in military occupations, secret bases, or projects, or entities working in corporations that have close contact with this type of operation, or the families of such entities, the close-working families, and also people who live near or around those places where UFO government operations may be visible to the population. Thus, for example, the city or town of Dulce, New Mexico, as being one in which many of the local people have been implanted and abducted. THAT DEVICE THE ALIENS PACK--HOW EXACTLY DOES IT WORK? (THAT FORCE THAT RESIDES IN SPACE) (FOLLOW UP QUESTION): That device the aliens pack with them that enables them to get into a home: does this device enable them to raise their own vibrational rate so they can enter matter, or does it raise the vibration of the matter and allow them to enter, or just how does it work? COSMIC AWARENESS: This Awareness indicates it creates a field around the entity which makes the matter lose its density. It is as though matter is created by atoms in molecular structure, held together by a spatial force. If you were to look at matter with a high enough microscope you would see there is more space than substance, yet there is a force surrounding these particles that tends to bind them together, holding them in place so that even though they are scattered apart with great space between them, this would be equivalent, for example, to a small ball on a football field, the substance of equating to the space, and the actual substance of the atom being the size of a football; that is the way atoms would appear if viewed with a powerful enough microscope, and the question may be: `How can these things be held together?' It is that force that resides in the space and not the matter that holds things together, and the aliens' pack is able to overcome that force, is able to defuse that force, so that the atoms of the body and the atoms of the wall actually pass through each other, just as if there were no force between the spaces. It is likened unto sand going through a screen. If the sand is small enough and the screen's holes are large enough, the sand can pass through, but if that sand is made into a ball held together by blue, and it is placed on a screen, it can't pass through, especially if the glue has been spread on the screen. The glue is the force that resides between the particles that make up the atom. This Awareness indicates the aliens have the technology to leave the particles intact, but to diminish the glue that holds the objects as solid, and this is done through the use of vibration, the raising of certain vibrations just high enough to overcome that frequency of the force, the glue force. THE TRILATERAL INSIGNIA: AN ALIEN FLAG QUESTION: A question by M.G. in New York: "The alien flag Trilateral insignia referred to by Cooper, is this the start of the Trilateral group of humans and aliens? COSMIC AWARENESS: This Awareness indicates that the Trilateral humans took their name from the Trilateral Insignia of the aliens. The symbols are different. THE WEB OF CONSPIRACY: (PART 2) ALL ABOUT THAT ALIEN UNDERGROUND BASE AT DULCE, NEW MEXICO QUESTION: There's some questions that arise from a book called: ALIEN MAGIC, by William F. Hamilton III, and there's a part of this book called: THE DULCE BASE, by Jason Bishop the third, and I'd like to read some of this, if it's alright, and ask Awareness to confirm or deny this information, and when appropriate, to expand on it.* *ALIEN MAGIC, by William F. Hamilton III, published by UFORCES, 249 N. Brand Blvd., Suite 651, Glendale, Calif. 91203 COSMIC AWARENESS: This Awareness indicates this in the affirmative, that It may from time to time raise the hand of the Interpreter to signal a pause for comment. QUESTIONER: (Begins reading): "The following material comes from people who know the underground base at Dulce, New Mexico, exists. They are people who worked in the labs, abductees taken to the base; people who assisted in the construction; Intelligence personnel (CIA, NSA, etc.) and UFO and Inner-Earth researchers. This information is meant for those who are seriously interested in the Dulce Base. For your own protection, be advised to `USE CAUTION' while investigating this complex." COSMIC AWARENESS: This Awareness suggests not only that entities, particularly in your organization, use caution, but that they NOT investigate this complex; that it is too well guarded; that only those who have clearance will be allowed in, and for entities not to think that they can simply run down there and explore the area. This Awareness mentions this because there are all types of people in your membership and some tend to be quite naive, and often want to express an unusual sense of adventure based on that naivete. This Awareness indicates that entities so inclined might not return, and might end up being part of the experimentation conducted at the base. READING CONTINUES: "This facility is a `GENETICS LAB' and is connected to Los Alamos, via a Tube-Shuttle (underground). Part of their research is related to the Genetic Effects of Radiation (Mutations and Human Genetics). Research there also includes other `Intelligent Species' (Alien biological Life Forms `Entities'). In the revised Sept. 1950 edition of THE EFFECTS OF ATOMIC WEAPONS, prepared for and in cooperation with the U.S. Dept. of Defense and the U.S. Atomic Energy Commission, under the direction of the Los Alamos Scientific Laboratory, we read about how "complete underground placement of bases is desirable." On page 381: "There are apparently no fundamental difficulties in construction and operating underground various types of important facilities. Such facilities must be placed in a suitable existing mine or a site may be excavated for the purpose." COSMIC AWARENESS: This Awareness indicates this as accurate; that this kind of underground networking has gone on, not only during this previous century from the time of World War II as mentioned, but that there are and have been other underground caverns created by the aliens many hundreds and thousands of years prior to this time, and these have been used along with the present excavations and mining activities of government and alien technologies. This Awareness reminds you of readings given some ten years ago regarding the subterranean caverns; that many of these were man-made caverns, and some were natural, but had been modified by machines of the more advanced technologies of the subterranean aliens.* ----------Continued in WEB part 2 --------------------------------------------- -- -* Don Allen *- InterNet: dona@bilver.UUCP // Amiga..for the best of us. USnail: 1818G Landing Dr, Sanford Fl 32771 \X/ Why use anything else? :-) UUCP: ..uunet!tarpit!bilver!vicstoy!dona 0110 0110 0110 Just say NO! Illuminati < MJ-12|Greys|TLC|CFR|FED|Bilderbergs > UN = "New World Order" Path: ns-mx!uunet!crdgw1!ge-dab!tarpit!bilver!dona From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy Subject: FILE: Web of Conspiracy part 2 Message-ID: <1991Aug8.060410.24735@bilver.uucp> Date: 8 Aug 91 06:04:10 GMT Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL Lines: 593 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:1613 alt.conspiracy:6550 -------------WEB part 2 ------------------------------------------------------- *`Revelations of Awareness' No. 79-25: (The Secret of the UFOs). This Awareness indicates the Deros described during that time are remnants of a humanoid species that were left underground for many generations. They have continued in their underground civilization which, through a network of caverns and tunnels extends throughout the United States, South America and in through Europe and other regions. These tunnels have been known by the Illuminati, which was formed in 1776 on May 1st, by Adam Weishaupt, which is the reason for the May 1st celebration in many countries; that this Illuminati as the foundation for many of the occult and conspiracy type organizations that have followed. It was based on the alien contact by these entities. This Awareness indicates, of course, there were still earlier contacts with aliens on this planet, these contacts researching back into prehistory. This Awareness suggests the questions continue. (READING CONTINUES): "Centuries ago, Surface People (some say the Illuminati) entered into a pact with an "Alien Nation" (hidden within the Earth). The U.S. government, in 1933, agreed to trade animals and humans in exchange for High Tech knowledge, and to allow them to use (undisturbed) underground bases, in the Western USA. A Special Group was formed to deal with the Alien Beings. In the 1940's `Alien Life Forms' (ALF) began shifting their focus of operations, from Central and South America, to the USA. The Continental Divide is vital to these `Entities'. Part of this has to do with Magnetics (Substrata Rock) and high Energy States (Plasma)." COSMIC AWARENESS: This is in the affirmative. This Awareness indicates that this shift into this area was partly due to the use of the atomic bomb in its infancy; the first atomic bomb being exploded in Alamogordo. That this drew great attention from the aliens and in realizing that these aliens use underground caverns, one can understand why they became quite concerned with atomic bombs blowing holes in the earth, and would like to have some input on the government using such weapons. (READING CONTINUES): "Whose Planet is This? These Aliens consider themselves `Native Terrans'". They are an ancient race (descendant from a Reptilian Humanoid Species which cross-bred with Sapient Humans). COSMIC AWARENESS: This Awareness indicates that this is in reference, not to all types of Greys, but to some of the Greys; the Greys from Orion in particular; that there are also other variations which do not have much of the reptilian genetics in them, but have some insect base. This Awareness indicates that the Greys who were present after World War II, who were present in this pact with the U.S. government, and the Greys who were present...This Awareness indicates there were Greys present on this planet in contact with humans in the late Twenties and early Thirties, but there were also other tall Greys that came to this planet in the period of approximately 1947-48; these being from Orion. The Zeta Reticuli Greys, coming in contact more in the Sixties; that the earlier Greys as having already been in the area, and the pact which led to the underground cavern bases was with these and also with the tall Orion Greys. Later, the Zeta Reticuli were brought in to certain agreements and allowed to have bases and there were further arrangements with them. They are all interrelated in some ways as different species, in a similar manner that on earth different races might still work together, though be somewhat segregated and somewhat different from each other. (READING CONTINUES): "They are untrustworthy manipulator/mercenary agents for another extraterrestrial culture (the Draco), who are returning to earth (their ancient `outpost') to use it as a staging area. But, these alien cultures are in conflict over whose agenda will be followed for this planet. All the while mental control is being used to keep humans `in place,' especially since the Forties." COSMIC AWARENESS: This Awareness indicates this is in the affirmative; that there is the conflict and agreement between the Grey Reticuli and the Reptilians; that of the Grey Reticuli, the orange group as being the more hostile to the Reptilians; that it is also the more hostile group in regard to Grey/human relationships. This Awareness indicates, however, that it does offer a potential for shifting of alliances between the Greys and the humans, since the orange Grey group is quite hostile to the Reptilians, it offers the humans an important opportunity to align themselves with the Greys and a potential for the alliance to be used in case of a conflict with the Reptilians. This Awareness indicates that it would appear that there is the potential of a situation occurring on this planet in which if the Reptilians arrive, the human race would not survive for any meaningful length of time in any quality of life. It would, it appears, deteriorate in such a manner that the human race would simply become useful as food for the Reptilians; this in the event sufficient numbers of Reptilians came and were able to control the masses of humans, and through their present allies, the Greys, it would appear this would be possible. Without the alliance between the Greys and the humans, it would appear that the Reptilians would have very little obstruction to their total dominion of the planet. This Awareness indicates there is still the element of the Pleiadians and the entities from Sirius, as a potential, but that this is not at present seen as being a great potential, since especially the Pleiadians are in deep trouble at home. (READING CONTINUES): "The DULCE Complex is joint U.S. Government/Alien base. It was NOT the first built with the aliens. (Others are in Colorado, Nevada, Arizona, etc.)" Is that correct? COSMIC AWARENESS: This is in the affirmative. (READING CONTINUES): "The Secret Activity". Paul Benewitz reports, about his study into the Dulce area: "Troops went in and out of there every summer, starting in 1947. The natives do recall that. They also built a road--right in front of the people of Dulce, and trucks went in and out for a long period. That road was later blocked and destroyed. The signs on the trucks were "Smith Corporation" out of Pagosa Springs, Colorado. No such corporation exists now...no records exist...I believe the Base, at least the first one, was being built then undercover of a lumbering project. The problem: they never hauled logs. Only BIG equipment." COSMIC AWARENESS: This Awareness indicates this is in the affirmative; that there also was built an underground tunnel from the area of Alamogordo to the base. (READING CONTINUES): "R & R and the Military Industrial Complex. The Rand Corporation became involved and did a study for the Base. Most of the lakes near Dulce were made `for' the Indians, via government grants. Navajo Dam is the main source for conventional electric power, with a second source in El Vado (also an entrance). Note: If Rand Corp. is the mother of `Think Tanks', then the Ford Foundation must be considered the father. Rand secrecy is not confirmed to `reports,' but on occasion extends to conferences and meetings. On page number 645 of the PROJECT RAND: Proceedings of the Deep Underground Construction Symposium (March, 1959) we read: "Just as airplanes, ships and automobiles have given man mastery of the surface of the Earth, tunnel-Boring Machines...will give him access to the subterranean World." Note: The Sept. 1983 issue of Omni magazine (Page 80) has a color drawing of "The SUBTERRENE", the Los Alamos nuclear-powered tunnel machine that burrows through the rock, deep underground, by heating whatever stone it encounters into molten rock (magma), which cools after the Subterrene has moved on. The result is a tunnel with a smooth, glazed lining." COSMIC AWARENESS: This Awareness indicates that this, using atomic energy in the process of heating these rocks, not only melts the rocks to allow for the tunneling to take place, but it reduces the magma of these melted rocks in terms of size so that there is very little or no residue which needs to be carried out of the tunnel, so that the hole itself is simply plastered up against the sides of the tunnel in a kind of melted shell. (FOLLOW UP QUESTION): That would account for the absence of great piles of dirt and rocks in that area, wouldn't it? COSMIC AWARENESS: This is in the affirmative. (CONTINUING WITH THE STATEMENT): "These underground tubes are used by electromagnetically powered "Subshuttle Vehicles," which can travel at great speeds. They connect the `Hidden Empire' Sub-City complexes. Also, the top-secret project code-named "Noah's Ark," uses `Tube Shuttles' in connection with a system of over 100 `Bunkers' and `Bolt Holes' which have been established at various places on Earth. With other bases inside the Moon and Mars. Many of these underground cities are complete with streets, sidewalks, lakes, small electric cars, apartments, offices and shopping malls." COSMIC AWARENESS: This Awareness indicates this is in the affirmative. This Awareness reminds you that there have been numerous movies that have covered many of the things that are now being exposed as realities. You will recall the movie in which the entity had his ear down to the sidewalk, hearing tunnels or hearing a machine underground, boring the earth, boring a tunnel, and everyone thought the entity was insane. This Awareness indicates that there have been numerous efforts by some entities to leak information, in some ways to alert the public of these various things. This Awareness indicates that most of the information went into movies that were seen as fantasy, and entities were entertained rather than informed, but now that entities are becoming informed and looking back on the entertainment that has been given during the past several decades, these movies will begin to take on a new meaning. This Awareness indicates JOURNEY TO THE CENTER OF THE EARTH, as well as many of the movies regarding duplicates and clones now have new meaning. Also, that in looking back on the earlier Awareness readings in which It spoke of synthetics and robotoids, entities will see that these too take on a new meaning. This Awareness suggests the questions continue. (FOLLOW-UP QUESTION): "I had one question about the shopping malls. Are these designed for humans that are working underground there, or are these used by aliens? COSMIC AWARENESS: This Awareness indicates that this as mostly for humans, but that there also are some shopping places for aliens too; that some instances of human/alien intermingling is present underground, but in most cases, in the higher levels, it is more a human-type of society, although in some cases, the more benevolent aliens will also be found in certain areas, intermingling with humans, even in those levels. That in the deeper levels, the aliens have greater domination. (FOLLOW-UP QUESTION): "This tunnel machine mentioned that uses atomic energy and burrows, melting the rock; was this technology given to the United States by the aliens, or did the United States develop that itself?" COSMIC AWARENESS: This Awareness indicates that it is an alien machine. This has been used down through centuries. It has been modified, but the concept and the initial construction as that which is alien. The more recent development as being a joint construction for and by humans and aliens in cooperation. There are more than one such machine. This Awareness indicates that these machines however, use technology that were of alien origin, along with other aspects that can be understood by human engineers. (READING CONTINUES): "There were over 650 attendees to the 1959 RAND Symposium. Most were representatives of the Corporate-Industrial State, like: The General Electric Company; AT & T; Hughes Aircraft; Northrop Corp.; Sandia Corp.; Stanford Research Institute; Walsh Construction Company; The Bechtel Corporation; Colorado School of Mines; etc. Bechtel (pronounced Beck-tull) in a supersecret international corporate octopus, founded in 1898. Some say the firm is really a "SHADOW GOVERNMENT"--a working arm of the CIA. It is the largest construction and engineering outfit in the USA and the world, (and some say, beyond). The most important posts in the U.S. government are held by former Bechtel officers. They are part of "THE WEB" (an interconnected control system) which links the Tri-Lateralist plans, the CFR, the Orders of `Illuminism' (Cult of the All-Seeing Eye) and other interlocking groups." Is that information correct? COSMIC AWARENESS: This Awareness indicates that this is in the affirmative; that you will recall, especially during the Reagan administration, the scandals associated with many of his cronies, and the connections with Bechtel; that in reviewing these, you will find the above information being pertinent. (READING CONTINUES): "The Dulce Facility consists of a central `Hub,' the Security Section, (also some photo labs). The deeper you go, the stronger the Security. This is a multi-leveled Complex. There are over 3000 cameras at various high-security locations (Exits and Labs). There are over 100 Secret Exits near and around Dulce. Many around Archuleta Mesa, others to the south around Dulce Lake and even as far east as Lindrith." Is that correct? COSMIC AWARENESS: This is in the affirmative. This Awareness indicates that there are caves used by aliens throughout the United States, Canada and South America, as well as in Europe. Many of these are small bases inside mountains that are in more remote areas; that there are underground tunnels connecting many of these. In some cases, the openings are used for the spacecraft for entrance and exits in isolated bases, but in most cases, the bases are connected by underground tunnels. These extend also into Washington, Oregon, Canada, the Aleutian Islands, into Russia, and into most other countries, especially in the Northern hemisphere of Europe; a;so in Australia and New Zealand. There are older bases in South America, in Brazil, in Central America, and in the areas of Chile, Venezuela, and Peru. (READING CONTINUES): "Deep sections of the Complex connect into natural cavern systems. A person who worked at the Base, who had an `ULTRA 7` clearance, reports: "There may be more than seven Levels, but I only know of seven. Most of the aliens are on levels 5, 6, and 7." COSMIC AWARENESS: This Awareness indicates there ten levels; that the three lower levels have to do with the construction of technological instruments and craft. (READING CONTINUES): "...Alien housing is lever 5." Is this correct? COSMIC AWARENESS: This as in the affirmative; this as the level where the aliens live and interact together in their time when they are not involved in their activities of industry. (READING CONTINUES): "We are leaving the era of expendable resources, like oil-based products. The power of the future is re-newable resources... "Biologically Engineered." The Dulce Genetic Research was originally funded under the cloak of "Black Budget" Secrecy. (Billions of dollars.) COSMIC AWARENESS: This is where the drugs and drug money has been flowing to. This Awareness indicates that this as also having received much funding from the NSA hidden agenda and purposes; that much of the enormous tax assessment on the nation and the great debt that has accumulated over the years is due to this funding. (READING CONTINUES): "They were interested in intelligent "Disposable Biology" (Humanoids), to do the dangerous atomic (Plutonium) rocket and saucer experiments. "We cloned "our" own little Humanoids, via a process perfected in the Bio-Genetic Research Center of the World, Los Alamos! COSMIC AWARENESS: This Awareness indicates this relates to the synthetics and in Russia, to the robotoids; that the reading continue. (READING CONTINUES): "Now, we have our own `disposable' slave-race. Like the alien `Greys' (EBES), the U.S. government clandestinely impregnated females, then removed the hybrid fetus, (after about 3 months) and then accelerated their growth in the Lab. Biogenetic (DNA Manipulation) programming is instilled; they are `implanted' and controlled at a distance through regular RF (Radio Frequency) transmissions. These act as telepathic "Channels" and telemetric brain (Advanced Research Project Agency). Two of the procedures were R.H.I.C. (Radio-Hypnotic Intracerebral Memory). The brain transceiver is inserted into the head through the nose. These devices are used in the Soviet Union and the United States, as well as in Sweden. The Swedish Prime Minister Palme gave the National Swedish Police Board the right, in 1973, to insert brain transmitters into the heads of human beings covertly. They also developed ELF and E.M. wave propagation equipment (RAYS), which can affect the nerves and can cause nausea, fatigue, irritability, even death. This is essentially the same as Richard Shaver's Cavern "Telaug" Mech. This research into biodynamic relationships within organisms ("Biological Plasma") has produced a RAY that can change the "genetic structure" and "HEAL" also." Is that information correct? COSMIC AWARENESS: How Dr. Beter Got His Information This Awareness indicates that this is correct; that the instruments which Dr. Beter once spoke of in his Audio Letters as being able to locate and determine what anyone on earth was doing at any time, is an instrument that was just spoken of, that was made available through his contacts with scientists in Nevada; that they were using these instruments in order to supply him with information for his Audio Letters. You will recall that often he spoke of entities who would allegedly be at some place, but by his sources would be found to be elsewhere, such as Jim Jones actually being flown to Israel and being thrown out of a plane near the Turkish boarder, and other instances of a similar nature, wherein entities were believed by press releases and so forth to be in a certain place, and Dr. Beter would indicate that they were truly elsewhere. This Awareness indicates that this also allowed them to distinguish between the real entity and a duplicate, a double who was replacing that entity, because the vibration of that double would be slightly altered and different. This Awareness indicates that Dr. Beter also was able to distinguish the difference between a robotoid, synthetic and human, because the human had a soul at the time; that in his later reports and in further technology, the robotoids were even being given a soul. This Awareness indicates that this occurred through further alien technology in which the soul of an entity can be severed from the body and implanted into another's body. It is a technology that allows for the Walk-In. It also allows for the soul to be put into a duplicate body, a robotoid for example, so that the soul can continue to exist after the first body has been eliminated, and in this kind of action it is almost the same as if the entity had received a new body. That in this sense, and for the purposes of changing the entity from one body to another, the reason for such might be, for example, to alter the memory or alter the philosophy of an entity in moving it from one body to another, by erasing certain aspects of memory. This Awareness indicates you will recall that the memory is stored in the etheric, between the mental and etheric bodies, and that it can be altered in the human. It can also be erased, and by taking the soul and these bodies from one physical body and putting them into another replica of the physical body, they can actually bring about a changed person with a different philosophy or different values, and yet the entity would essentially be the same personality. This Awareness indicates that perhaps this can answer many questions that entities have had, in regard to past notable figures that have been indicated by Dr. Beter as having been replaced by duplicate bodies. This Awareness suggests the reading continue. (READING CONTINUES): "Warning: Manipulation and Control, Fear and Favor...The Pentagon, the CIA, NSA, FBI,DEA, NSC, etc. seek to capitalize on the beliefs of the American public. The Secret Government is getting ready to `stage' a contact-landing with Aliens in the near future. This way they can `Control' the release of Alien related propaganda. We will be told of an inter-stellar conflict. But...what looks real, may be FAKE. What is disinformation? Is your attention being diverted by the strategy of a `Shadow Plan'?" COSMIC AWARENESS: This Awareness indicates that this refers to the scenario described in Stan Deyo's book, THE COSMIC CONSPIRACY, as that which would be a staged version, using the beliefs of the American people in regard to the BOOK OF REVELATION, wherein entities would be expecting the return of Christ after some kind of event or situation that might lead to a kind of Armageddon. This Awareness indicates that the only thing about this is that there is, in fact the threat of the Reptilian invasion; these entities coming in a planetoid which does not travel at above-light speed; this because of such great number of entities, in needing a planetoid for the transference of the population. This Awareness indicates that if the so-called invasion occurs before 1996, and especially if it occurs around 1993, entities can probably be correct in assuming it is staged. It may be staged to set up the atmosphere for a One World Government. If it is held off until approximately 1996 or `97 or thereafter, then entities can presume it is probably for real, as by that time the Reptilians would have made their approach, would be close enough to pose a real threat. (READING CONTINUES): "Berkeley, Los Alamos Labs Chosen to Explore Makeup of Human Genome. (Overt and Covert Research). As U.S. Energy Secretary, John Harrington, named the Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory and New Mexico's Los Alamos National Laboratory to house new advanced genetic research centers as part of a project to decipher the human genome. The genome holds the genetically coded instructions that guide the transformation of a single cell--a fertilized egg--into a Biological Being. "The Human Genome Project may well have the greatest direct impact on a humanity of any scientific initiative before us today," said David Shirley, Director of the Berkeley Laboratory." COSMIC AWARENESS: This Awareness indicates that this is the exploration of the genes and all of the codes that go into creating the various lifeforms based on the patterns involved in the code of the molecular structures that make up the genes. This Awareness indicates that there has been some research; that approximately 15% of this genetic coding has been researched by your universities, and the research being classified in such a way as to allow them to splice, remove, delete, add to that genetic code in order to create changes in the code, that it can be used for destroying or creating diseases, destroying or creating lifeforms, destroying or creating plants, animals or whatever that may be tampered with genetically. This Awareness indicates that it can also be used to modify any of these things; thus, it has the potential for altering all forms of life, for good or ill, and for creating all types of life in different forms. This Awareness indicates that the effort is to may out and decode all of the DNA, and in so doing, have complete control over the lifeforms and the creation, modification or destruction for these forms. It is through this information that many of the creatures described on Level 6 in Nightmare Hall, such as the many- legged human, were created genetically. Atlantean Genetics: The Creation of the "Things" This awareness indicates that you will recall the Edgar Cayce readings, in the readings on Atlantis, in which he described the "Things" which the Atlanteans created. These were grossly distorted creatures; that the `Things" that were created became a part of society. These were also entities who were the product of alien technology in the time of Atlantis. This Awareness indicates that these creations were also grotesque and of those things which are common to humans today;--the cat and the pig were direct creations of Atlantean genetics. This Awareness indicates that the pig having some human genes intermixed with earlier wild boar. The cat, being created from genes that had belonged to the Greys. You will notice the cat-like eyes of the Greys; these were incorporated into the genes used for creating the cat. This also is a reason why there were cat societies, societies that worshipped the cat, thinking they were a kind of reflection of the gods of the time, many entities seeing these Grey aliens as gods. This Awareness suggests the reading continue. WHY PORK IS CONSIDERED "UNCLEAN MEAT" BY THE JEWS (FOLLOW-UP QUESTION): "I was wondering if these human genes in the pig could possibly be connected to the ancient Jewish philosophy that pork is unclean meat and should not be eaten?" COSMIC AWARENESS: This Awareness indicates that this as in the affirmative; that there is also the concern about the cloven hoof; that entities were permitted to eat food of a certain type, but not from those animals having a cloven hoof. The cloven hoof also has been associated with the devil. This Awareness reminds you also that the Grey aliens have two toes. This Awareness indicates that the entities cloning the Hebrews were of a type that were what you might call enemies of the Greys, and did not want their clones fraternizing with or being associated with the Greys or anything that had connection with them, also did not want them eating food that had human genes in it, such as the pig. ---------------------------------------- ------------Continued in WEB part 3 --------------------------------------- -- -* Don Allen *- InterNet: dona@bilver.UUCP // Amiga..for the best of us. USnail: 1818G Landing Dr, Sanford Fl 32771 \X/ Why use anything else? :-) UUCP: ..uunet!tarpit!bilver!vicstoy!dona 0110 0110 0110 Just say NO! Illuminati < MJ-12|Greys|TLC|CFR|FED|Bilderbergs > UN = "New World Order" Path: ns-mx!uunet!crdgw1!ge-dab!tarpit!bilver!dona From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy Subject: FILE: Web of Conspiracy part 3 Message-ID: <1991Aug8.060545.24803@bilver.uucp> Date: 8 Aug 91 06:05:45 GMT Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL Lines: 612 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:1614 alt.conspiracy:6551 -----------WEB part 3 ------------------------------------------------------- THE WEB OF CONSPIRACY: (PART 3)..."NIGHTMARE HALL" (READING CONTINUES): This overlaps some information just given by Awareness. "Covertly, this research has been going on for years at Dulce Labs. Level No. 6 is privately called "Nightmare Hall," it holds the Genetic Labs. Reports from workers who have seen bizarre experimentation are as follows: "I have seen multi-legged `humans' that look like half human/half-octopus. Also Reptilian-humans, and furry creatures that have hands like humans and cries like a baby; it mimics human words...also huge mixtures of Lizard-humans in cages." There are fish, seals, birds and mice that can barely be considered those species. There are several cages (and vats) of Winged-humanoids, grotesque bat-like creatures, but 3-1/2 to 7 feet tall. Gargoyle- like beings and Draco-Reptoids." Is that information true? COSMIC AWARENESS: This Awareness indicates this scratches the surface. There are far more grotesque creatures than were described. (FOLLOW-UP QUESTION): Isn't that the very thing that brought down Atlantis? COSMIC AWARENESS: This as in the affirmative. (READING CONTINUES): "Level 7 is worse: row after row of thousands of humans and human-mixtures in cold storage. Here too are embryo storage vats of Humanoids, in various stages of development. "I frequently encountered humans in cages, usually dazed or drugged, but sometimes they cried and begged for help. We were told they were hopelessly insane, and involved in high risk tests to cure insanity. "We were told to never try to speak to them at all. At the beginning we believed that story. Finally, in 1978, a small group of workers discovered the truth. It began the `Dulce Wars,' (and a secret resistance Unit was formed)." Note: There are over 18,000 `Aliens' at the Dulce Base. COSMIC AWARENESS: This Awareness indicates there are closer to 200,000 aliens at this time; that approximately 100,000 in the Dulce base, and 100,000 more that have moved through the base to other bases; these continuing to enter at a rate of about 20,000 per month. This Awareness indicates the base at Ada, Oklahoma, as still being active; this being approached from underground; that the recent floods in that area as having been in part deliberately allowed to help slow and hinder activities at the base. This Awareness indicates that the government as being divided; that one faction wishes to stop the aliens from further growth and the other faction wishing to work with the aliens, collaborating with them. The aliens wishing to move their entire population from their dying planet to this one as quickly as possible, even prior to the arrival of the Draco Reptilians. (This Awareness suggests the reading continue). (READING CONTINUES): "In late 1979, there was a confrontation (over weapons), a lot of scientists and military personnel were killed. The base was closed for a while...but, it is currently active. Note: Human and animal abductions (for their blood and other parts) slowed in the mid-1980s, when the Livermore Berkeley labs began production of artificial blood for Dulce. William Cooper states: "A clash occurred wherein 66 of our people, from the National Recon Group, the DELTA group, which is responsible for security of all alien-connected projects, were killed. COSMIC AWARENESS: This Awareness indicates that this occurred in more places than the Dulce base; that in many other areas there were raids by humans into these alien bases, and skirmishes and activities in which many of these aliens were killed, or their bases shut down. This Awareness indicates that even here in your own state of Washington, and also in Oregon, this type of thing occurred; that it was in connection with a group working through the CIA, and that this did begin to have some effect. This Awareness indicates, however, that there was also a split in the intelligence bureaus, it appears came from MJ 12, in which there was one faction that wanted this conflict to stop immediately, and collaboration to continue; and because of this in-fighting within the agency, many of those agents who were working to hinder the aliens, resulted in their being covertly eliminated, especially those who had special skills in this area of raiding these caves. (READING CONTINUES): "The DELTA Group (Within the Intelligence Support Activity) have been seen with badges which have a black triangle on a red background. (DELTA is the fourth letter of the Greek alphabet)." COSMIC AWARENESS: This Awareness indicates this is in the affirmative; that these entities are often witnessed as the group using black helicopters; that the movie versions of the Delta Force, as that which was based on rumors that such a force existed; these being particularly related to UFO and alien concerns and not to raid into other countries as a kind of SWAT team organization; this not being their purpose, as depicted in movies. (READING CONTINUES): "It has the form of a triangle, and figures prominently in certain Masonic signs. Each base has its own symbol. The Dulce base symbol is a triangle with the Greek letter (Tau) `T' within it, and then the symbol is inverted, so the triangle points down. The insignia of `a triangle and 3 lateral lines' has been seen on `Saucer (transport) Craft,'--the Tri-lateral symbol. Other symbols mark landing sites and Alien craft. And they draw some of the symbols here that look like Indian teepees and so forth. Is this information correct? COSMIC AWARENESS: This Awareness indicates this is the affirmative; that these symbols appear to be correct in regard to the connection described. This Awareness indicates that the Greek symbols relate back to symbols from Akkadia, and even back to symbols of Sumeria, and these were given as symbols of Sumeria, and these were given as symbols from the aliens of that time; thus the symbols are a kind of link between alien and modern human language, neither quite alien, nor neither quite English, but of a language that many who have been educated in your modern schools can easily find and adjust to in using the Greek symbols. The aliens also then have the capacity of adjusting their language or symbolic writings into Greek, which is not too difficult for them, and the humans to use as a mediating written language, in terms of symbols. (READING CONTINUES): "Inside the Dulce Base, Security officers wear jump-suits, with the Dulce symbol on the front upper left side. The standards hand- weapon at Dulce, is a `Flash gun,' which is good against humans and aliens. The I.D. card (used in card slots for the doors and elevators) has the Dulce symbol above the I.D. photo. "Government Honchos" use cards with the Great Seal of the U.S. on it. "The Cult of the All-Seeing Eye" (The New World Order)...13, "666" -the Phoenix Empire..."9"..."Illuminism,"...`One out of many.'" COSMIC AWARENESS: How the Flash-Gun Operates This Awareness indicates that this as in the affirmative; that in regard to the flash gun; that this as being likened unto a kind of laser ray-gun; that it is a real life version of the Star Trek phaser; the difference being that the flash-gun works in such a way that the entity doesn't simply die from the blast, but is dried up. This Awareness indicates that there is the potential for setting the flash-gun to different frequencies or different ranges of temperature; that its most intense range as that which immediately dissolves or evaporates all water in the body, causing a body to shrivel up totally, so that nothing in the sense of liquid within the body is present. Thus, the entity literally burns up at whatever speed is appropriate according to the setting of the flash-gun; very quickly or very slowly. It is essentially a death ray that works on the water in the body. (READING CONTINUES): "After the second level, everyone is weighed, in the nude, then given a uniform. `Visitors' are given an `off white' uniform. In front of ALL sensitive areas are scales built under the doorway, by the door control. The person's care must match with the weight and code or the door won't open. Any discrepancy in weight (any change over three pounds) will summon Security. No one is allowed to carry anything into or out of sensitive areas. All supplies are put thru a Security conveyer system. The alien symbol language appears alot at the facility. During the construction of the Facility (which was done in stages, over many years), the aliens assisted in the design and construction materials. Many of the things assembled by the workers were of a technology they could not understand, yet...it would function when fully put together. Example: The elevators have no cables. They are controlled magnetically. The magnetic system is inside the walls. There are no conventional electrical controls. All is controlled by advanced magnetics. That includes a magnetically induced (phosphorescent) illumination system. There are no regular light bulbs. All exits are magnetically controlled. Note: It has been reported that, "if you place a large magnet on an entrance, it will affect an immediate interruption. They will have to come and reset the system." COSMIC AWARENESS: This Awareness indicates this is in the affirmative; that there is a totally different advancement in terms of technology used by these entities in regard to an advancement that worked from the base of electro-magnetics without the use of wires, whereas your technology transferred electricity through wires and created a system along different lines. There was less mechanical activity in their technology, and more electronic and magnetic technology, and more electronic and magnetic technology development. This Awareness indicates the lighting system used as that which is painted upon the walls, or placed on the walls in a kind of paint which is affected by an electromagnetic charge that is applied, which causes the wall to light,---this affecting the paint on the walls and the substances that are in that painted material. (QUESTIONER): The Interpreter's been in trance for quite a while, and we would like to bring him up at this time and continue this reading later, if it is alright with Awareness. COSMIC AWARENESS: This as in the affirmative. This Awareness suggests that this may be seen as a break; that the questions may continue after a brief interruption from our sponsor. (The Law of Gratitude is given) ----------------------------------------- THE WEB OF CONSPIRACY: (PART 4)...THE DARK SIDE OF TECHNOLOGY (READING CONTINUES...after dinner): "The town of Dulce. The area around Dulce has had a high number of reported animal mutilations. The government and the aliens used the animals for environmental tests, psychological warfare on people, etc. The aliens also wanted large amounts of blood for Genetic, Nutritional and other reasons. "In the book, ET's and UFOs--They Need Us, We Don't Need Them, by Virgil `Posty' Armstrong, he reports how his friends (Bob and Sharon) stopped for the night in Dulce and went out to dinner. "They overheard some local residents openly and vociferously discussing extra-terrestrial abduction of townspeople for purposes of experimentation." The ET's had our government's knowledge and approval." COSMIC AWARENESS: This Awareness indicates that this is in the affirmative; that in any of those areas near those bases there is an excessive degree of danger of abduction or otherwise intimidation. That in regard to the aliens' need for large amounts of blood, there is recently a scientific breakthrough in regard to the use of cattle blood being altered to work for human transfusions; that the use of cattle blood in humans is a possibility on a one-time basis, without such alteration. With the alteration, it can be repeatedly used without side effects; that within approximately 5 years there will be no need for a blood transfusion from the use of human blood. This Awareness indicates that part of this is a side-effect from the experimentation that involves alien technology and the cattle and human mutilations and the researches into the different types of blood. This Awareness indicates that much of the blood supplied to the aliens could be supplied from slaughterhouses, were this to be more organized, and this would help to prevent much of the mutilation that otherwise occurs. (READING CONTINUES): "In the Fifties, the EBES (Greys) began taking large numbers of humans for experiments. By the Sixties, the rate was speeded up and they began getting careless (they didn't care). By the Seventies, their true colors were very obvious, but the "Special Group" of the government still kept covering up for them. "By the Eighties, the government realized there was no defense against the Greys, so programs were enacted to prepare the public for open contact with non-human `Alien Beings.' "The Greys and the `Reptoids' are in league with each other. But, their relationship is in a state of tension. The Greys' only known enemy is the Reptilian race, and they are on their way to earth. (Inside a Planetoid)." COSMIC AWARENESS: This Awareness wishes entities to reflect back in regard to these time segments in the previous paragraph, to reflect back in regard to the attitude of the government toward the Greys in the 50's, 60's, and 70's, and you will see also that during such time periods, the presentation of the aliens, in terms of any release of information about aliens, tended to fit into the categories that the government attitude held toward the aliens. The first attitude being that they were benevolent people who were on a kind of friendly basis with humanity, but as the time passed, this recognition reaching a turning point in the 70's, in the late 70's and into the 80's, wherein it was discovered that they were involved with excessive human mutilation and abductions. This Awareness indicates that what disturbed the government even more was that they were deceptive to the government also. They were breaking rules with the government in that they were supposed to be giving a trade for technology. Efforts to fly the craft resulted in many of the pilots being killed in the testing of the craft, and also the Russians were being given technology which had been forbidden in the agreements between the American government and the aliens. This Awareness indicates that there were many groups in the 70's who represented the aliens as being really nice, wonderful people, rescuers of humanity. Even the movie, ET, was an attempt by the government to present the image of aliens as being nice characters from outer space. This was before the government discovered what rascals they really were. This Awareness suggests that last few sentences of that previous paragraph be repeated; that this not necessarily be typed on your final manuscript; this being for reference to this Awareness, for further comment. (Last two sentences are re-read) This Awareness indicates that there is also some tension between the Greys and the Dero. This reference to the Grey's only known enemy; this in reference to certain elements of the Greys, particularly the orange group which is generally hostile anyway. This Awareness indicates that the reference to the Reptoids in the planetoid, this as being accurate and having been discussed elsewhere in other readings. These entities coming from Draco: the number being approximately 40 million. This Awareness also indicates that the element 115, which is available through the alien government alliance, is capable of being useful in a kind of doomsday weapon against the planetoid. (READING CONTINUES): "Mind Manipulation Experiments: The Dulce base has studied Mind Control Implants; Bio-Psi Units; ELF Devices capable of mood, sleep and heartbeat control, etc. D.A.R.P.A. (Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency) is using these technologies to manipulate people. They establish `The Projects,' set priorities, coordinate efforts and guide the many participants in these undertakings. Related projects are studied at Sandia Base by "The JASON Group" of 55 scientists. They have secretly harnessed the Dark Side of technology and hidden the beneficial technology from the public. Other projects take place at "Area 51" in Nevada. "Dreamland" (Data Repository Establishment and Maintenance Land"); ELMINT (Electro-magnetic Intelligence); CODE EMPIRE; CODE EVA; PROGRAM HIS; (Hybrid Intelligence System); BW/CW; IRIS (Infrared Intruder Systems); BI-PASS; REP-TILES; etc." COSMIC AWARENESS: This Awareness indicates that these areas and names as related to various aspects of various programs and locations; that the reference to Groom Lake(?) and DREAMLAND can be researched in the work of Lazar, the release of information from Lazar, and other sources. This Awareness indicates that entities can do much of this researching for themselves into the meaning of some of these; that some of these terms are not defined clearly in publicly-released information. This Awareness indicates that the information on Element 115 as having been given in some of the earlier literature also released by Lazar, and also to some degree, there are mentions in the Cooper Material. This Awareness suggests that entities can further research these areas for more details if they are inclined to do so. (READING CONTINUES): "The studies on Level No. 4 at Dulce, include Human-Aura Research, as well as all aspects of Dream, Hypnosis, Telepathy, etc. They know how to manipulate the Bio-plasmic Body (of Man). They can lower your heart beat with deep sleep `Delta Waves,' induce a static shock, then re-program via a Brain-Computer link. They can introduce data and programmed reactions into your mind (Information impregnation-the "Dream Library." We are entering an era of the technologicalization of psychic powers. The development of techniques to enhance man/machine communications; Nano-tech; Bio-tech micro-machines; Psi-War; E.D.O.M. (Electronic Dissolution of Memory); R.H.I.C. (Radio-Hypnotic Intra- Cerebral Control); and various forms of behavior control (via chemical agents, ultra-sonics, optical and other EM radiations). The Physics of `Consciousness.' COSMIC AWARENESS: How Robotoids & Synthetics are Created This Awareness indicates that it is also on this level that the technique whereby souls can be extracted from the physical and transferred into other bodies or into replicas occurs. That in the transference there can also be the alteration of memories, values and qualities of the soul, so that an entity can appear to be the same, but there will be certain changes that have occurred that may be unseen, and the attitude and purposes and directions of the entity may then be controlled. This Awareness indicates that this occurs when the vibratory qualities of a soul are extracted by these electronic equipment from a body and moved into another. This needs not necessarily be a replica of the entity; it can be a totally different person's body, in which case it becomes what is termed a walk-in. This Awareness indicates that if it is a replica, it will tend to work with the replica to create the final features that result in a duplication of the features of the entity. That this generally takes place on the almost human form, when the mind-state or soul energies, including the various electro-body energies are transferred, and as they begin to grow and attach themselves to that almost human form. The features then begin to solidify, to match the features of the electro-magnetic energies and the soul energies and astral energies and other mental and etheric bodies of the older original being. This Awareness indicates that in the book of Genesis, which states that God made Adam from clay, molded him; this was a poor translation of the actual process. Rather than clay, it was substance, then breathed the breath of life into Adam. The breath of life being qualities of the Life Force which were part of the creator, and this was in reference to the electromagnetic field of the creator of Adam,--the Elohim, or alien that created Adam. This Awareness indicates that this was the process of breathing life or the breath of life into the substance that became Adam. It was a similar process as the creation of replicas or duplicates, though that took place approximately ten thousand years ago. (READING CONTINUES): The final statement of the last question: "The development of biotechnologies will mean a revolutionary change in the life of every human being now on earth. The question is: Will this be better living through Bio-Tech?" COSMIC AWARENESS: This Awareness indicates that it will be a change. Whether it will be better or worse will always be questionable. There will be some benefits that come from this. There will be detriments that come from this. There does not appear to be anything that can be done to prevent this knowledge from being incorporated into the Earth's consciousness; it has, in fact, been used by beings alien to human consciousness for tens and hundreds of thousands of years, indeed, millions of years, and it will continue to be used. It is just that humans are just realizing such strange and awesome knowledge exists. It will be equivalent to an individual, much like that of the child, who suddenly discovers much to his dismay, that sex brings forth children, for the adult to discover that genetic engineering can create living beings, can alter living beings, can create and alter new life forms, new types of beings. This is shocking to one who has never been exposed to such reality. --------------------------------------------- THE WEB OF CONSPIRACY: (PART 5)...THE PHANTOM EMPIRE (READING CONTINUES): "The Phantom Empire: Above the Law. The Dulce base is run by a "Board." The Chairman of the Board is John Herrington. Jim Baker (of Tenn.) is the CIA link to Dulce. House Speaker Jim Wright, D- Texas (the nation's third-highest office) is Treasurer at Dulce. There is currently a power struggle going on. As Rep. William Thomas, R-Calf., put it..."Part of Jim Wright's problem is, he fails to understand what's equitable and fair. It's the arrogance of power." Even among his fellow democrats, many find Wright to be "uncomfortably aloof." Wright's operating style leaves him vulnerable. Most meetings of `The Dulce Board' are held in Denver and Taos, N.M. Former New Mexico Senator Harrison "Last man on the moon" Schmitt, has full knowledge of Dulce. He was one of 7 astronauts to tour the base. In 1979, he held an "Animal Mutilation" conference in Albuquerque, N.M. This was used to locate researchers and determine what they had learned about the links between the "Mute" operations and the Alien/Government. Senator Brian (Nev.) knows about the `ULTRA' Secrets at `Dreamland' and Dulce. So do many others in the government. This is what the UFO researchers are up against, so be CAREFUL...they have killed to keep this information secret. You now know more than they want you to know. They also have underwater bases off the coast of Florida and Peru." COSMIC AWARENESS: This Awareness indicates that all of the above is very poignant, very accurate and very true. This Awareness indicates that even the repetition through this reading of such information does create some danger for C.A.C. headquarters and the Interpreter. This Awareness indicates however, that it being just a kind of reflection of material that is already available elsewhere, does tend to minimize the danger, and the fact that the organization is small and the publication limited to just a few hundred people, and the fact that the information is available in other sources, and the sources are being quoted, tends to minimize the danger. Also, the fact that there are now quite a large number of entities, UFO researchers and entities who are openly disclosing such information, has led to a kind of floodgate opening of such information. It makes it much less a danger. Had this information been given a year ago, it would have been extremely dangerous, and those who risked their lives in releasing this information a year ago, in some cases almost two years ago, were indeed very courageous and should be held in high esteem as they could have become more of a large number of victims of the cover-up. This Awareness indicates it does appear that part of the reason this information can be released now, when it could not be released even 18 months ago, is because there are conflicts even in the higher ranks of government because some want the information hidden, while others want it released to the public, knowing that the public must be made aware of what is occurring if they are to be able to help in the event of a clash between humans and aliens, and especially in regard to the Draco/Reptilian invasion. This Awareness indicates that those who are collaborators and have been collaborators and do not wish the information released, generally are continuing the cover-up out of fear that the masses would blame them and hold them responsible for all that is due to an alien presence, and they fear that they could be seen as traitors. This Awareness indicates that there was a time when these entities realized that masses of human beings were being sacrificed to feed the alien appetites, and that the aliens were not being straight- forward in their dealings with humans. These entities had a choice of making a clean break with the aliens, or at least informing more of the humans, or of continuing to collaborate and cover-up and make excuses and assist the aliens. Of course, some entities cannot decide quickly, given certain amount of time. These entities have had sufficient time; that it would appear proper that they now realize this information must be released to the public. It is appropriate that many within the higher ranks have the courage and the ethics to allow this information to be released as is being done, without destroying the lives of those courageous researchers who are releasing information. (This Awareness suggests that the reading continue). (FOLLOW-UP QUESTION): "One question: House Speaker Jim Wright was drummed out of office a few months back for alleged improprieties regarding outside interests, and also for monies given to him by various corporations, etc. He has been replaced by Tom Foley, a Democrat from our own Washington State, and I'd like to ask: Did this information about the Dulce complex and the alien information that Jim Wright had, was this passed along to the new Speaker, Tom Foley?" COSMIC AWARENESS: This Awareness indicates that this as being information that is not appropriate through this channel to be released; that this would be a violation of certain...This Awareness does not disclose any information that is not already available elsewhere in regard to individuals and their connections with these aliens, in terms of this secret government. This Awareness indicates that there will come a time when more is disclosed; that this information could be damaging to various entities in various ways. QUESTIONER: I understand. ------Continued in WEB part 4 ------------------------------------------------- -- -* Don Allen *- InterNet: dona@bilver.UUCP // Amiga..for the best of us. USnail: 1818G Landing Dr, Sanford Fl 32771 \X/ Why use anything else? :-) UUCP: ..uunet!tarpit!bilver!vicstoy!dona 0110 0110 0110 Just say NO! Illuminati < MJ-12|Greys|TLC|CFR|FED|Bilderbergs > UN = "New World Order" Path: ns-mx!uunet!crdgw1!ge-dab!tarpit!bilver!dona From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy Subject: FILE: Web of Conspiracy part 4 (Conclusion) Message-ID: <1991Aug8.060852.24867@bilver.uucp> Date: 8 Aug 91 06:08:52 GMT Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL Lines: 710 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:1615 alt.conspiracy:6552 ---------WEB part 4 (conclusion) ------------------------------------------ (READING CONTINUES): "In the 1930's, `Division Five' of the FBI knew about the `Aliens.' A Fascist cabal, within this country, had John Kennedy assassinated. Look to the links, within the larger umbrella...the `Web' of a fascist totalitarian secret police state...within the Pentagon: JCS; DIA; FBI; (Division Five); DISC/DIS and the CIA. Note: the Defense Investigative Service's insignia is a composite of the sun's rays, a rose, and a dagger, symbolized "The Search for Information, Trustworthiness and Danger." Other links are Nazi scientists (who had contact with the Aliens); the S.S.; Satanists; Permindex; Exxon; the Mafia; NBC, etc. This links with caves used for `Initiation Rites' (all over the world)...ancient vaults, retreats; Alien bases and Inner-Earth civilizations." COSMIC AWARENESS: This Awareness indicates that this all as being correct information; that this also relates to messages given in questions asked yesterday in regard to the changes that are occurring throughout the world, wherein this Awareness discussed certain fascist energies that are in motion at this time. This Awareness indicates that this is a time in which alliances between some of the fascist energies and some of the aliens has shifted; that it is not simply a matter of humans versus aliens; there are some aliens who want alliances with humans and some who don't, and these are also in some instances seeking alliances with humans, aliens seeking alliances with the fascist elements of humans; other aliens seeking to align themselves with the more Communistic alliance, or that which might be termed the Bolshevik groups. This Awareness indicates that the alliances being such that it is a kind of struggle in which nothing absolutely clear has occurred, but gradual shifting is making for a possibility that the alien presence can be resolved to allow a human coexistence on this planet, even in spite of the threat of the Draco Reptilians, and in spite of the nature of the more hostile aliens on earth. There is a ray of hope for humans, even though there is a threat to humanity greater than humanity would have imagined. The threat of nuclear war as that which conditioned humanity to accept the potential for oblivion, but many humans would prefer oblivion to enslavement by some of the beings whose attitudes and natures see them as mere playthings or food or experimental guinea pigs. This Awareness indicates there is much that humans can learn from this experience in regard to their own attitude toward animals, guinea pigs, and their own forms of experiments. This Awareness indicates unfortunately, those who need to learn these lessons most are not likely to have any reason to make such observations and unfortunately too, there are many human cells and parts of consciousness locked into those grotesque creations that are presently entraped in a kind of hellish limbo and cannot get out, because they have been genetically created as a `thing,' yet their consciousness still remains that of humans. Even if retarded or demented in nature, they still have human consciousness, and these entities continue to suffer. If entities think that this information is shocking and disturbing to their peace of mind, stop for a moment and consider what these beings who are the subject of experiments in the genetic engineering levels such as Nightmare Hall, are going through. This Awareness suggests you should sing praises to the Divine Forces that have protected you and your loved ones, if indeed you have been so fortunate as to have lived a good life, and you should consider the dangers facing younger generations who must grow up in a world so totally different than the world you knew in your youth. This Awareness indicates that there is still, however, a ray of hope for humanity, whereby great things can come about, wherein the Greys have no sense of emotion, but do indeed desire such, and humans can teach these entities in time through some of these genetic mutations, especially their own hybrid offspring; it is possible that race, which is close to a million years in age, can regain a sense of compassion, a sense of emotion, can redevelop an astral, an emotional body, and can perhaps even develop compassion and love, given examples and given time to do so. This Awareness indicates that entities need to be most cautious in the coming years, love your neighbors, your children, your family. Cherish them carefully. Watch them. Do not neglect them. Protect them, and be cautious yourself. Your chances are greater, much greater, that you will live a normal healthy and long life than that you would become a victim of alien technology. That would be most rare in terms of percentage. (This Awareness suggests the reading continue). (READING CONTINUES): "Warning: Fascism is `Corporatism'. We have passed the point of no return, in our interaction with the Alien Beings. We are guaranteed `a crisis' which will persist until the final Revelation (or conflict). The crisis is here, global and real. We must mitigate or transform the nature of the disasters to come...and come they will. Knowing is half the battle. Read the book, The Cosmic Conspiracy, by Stan Deyo." COSMIC AWARENESS: This Awareness indicates that knowledge is power. By knowing what you know now from this information, you are much more powerful, much more powerful than you were before being so informed. This Awareness indicates in reference to the Stan Deyo information; this book is not available or is very difficult to find. There is some possibility of acquiring this book from certain sources. If this book becomes available, you should, at all costs or at any reasonable cost, acquire the book and read it. It essentially speaks of the planned `rapture' in which there will be the fake rapture, whereby there will be the appearance of an event, a crisis that will lead humanity into the abyss of a global crisis that could mean great difficulty for all. There may even be the appearance of the rise of an Antichrist, followed by an invasion of spaceships, which would follow the BOOK OF REVELATION, wherein entities would believe they were being rescued by high spiritual beings, and in face, these could well be the humans using alien craft and introducing alien technology as a One World Government is established. This Awareness indicates that if these events were it take place, prior to 1995, it is likely to be a fake event. It is possible that the Pleiadians could return by 1993. The Pleiadians' ships are different from the Greys and their appearance is different. Their symbol is that of a serpent climbing a vine, or a serpent. The Reptilian symbol is that of a dragon. The Grey's symbol also uses a serpent, this being a cobra. This Awareness indicates that the Stan Deyo book has been suppressed in this country. There is some chance of getting copies from Australia. There are rare copies in the United States. This Awareness indicates that in regard to the corporations as being fascist in nature; that this is in the affirmative. This Awareness suggests also that you will recall remarks by Dr. Beter that heads of corporations were being replaced by synthetics or robotoids; in other words, replicas of themselves. This Awareness indicates that this as having been part of the alien program in order to assure continued use of such corporations. These entities being replaced are under control, or were under control, of these technologies of the alien and of those who were putting implants into their replicas to control the corporations, according to their general plans. This Awareness indicates there does appear to have been considerable shift in the alliances since that time, and as indicated, even the aliens may be changing alliances, away from their previous Draco masters, in favor of alliances with humans. For this reason there is some degree of hope, particularly if this shift continues. This Awareness indicates the Draco Reptilians do not really need the earth. They have more room than they need to grow and thrive. They simply want the Earth as a kind of strategic point in their battle to conquest the galaxy. It is likened unto your army wanting to take a hill, not because it needs more room, but because it wants the hill to help it have better positioning for better conquest. (This Awareness suggests the reading continue). (READING CONTINUES): This is the final question in this particular reference. "Some forces, in the government, want the public to be aware of what is happening. Other forces (the collaborators) want to continue making `what ever deals necessary' for an elite few to survive the conflicts. The future could bring a fascist `World Order' or a transformation of human consciousness (Awareness). The struggle is NOW...your active assistance is needed. Prepare! We must preserve humanity on Earth." COSMIC AWARENESS: What You Can Do About This Alien Situation This Awareness indicates that this is an excellent summary of the situation. There is the potential for a fascist domination by both human and aliens. There is also the potential for a major awakening by the masses on this planet. The preparation that is needed has to do with filling oneself with knowledge of the situation, and giving this knowledge to other. This Awareness indicates that as you can easily see, notifying the government or other such authorities of this problem is like letting the fox know that there's a fox in the henhouse. This Awareness indicates that the important thing is to notify the masses, to notify other people. Let them notify still more. Let them notify their preachers, their doctors, the workers on the street, the people in the stores. Let them notify people who are interested, to notify people who make films, who write papers, who spread news, who write articles for magazines, who speak publicly, who have the ability to disseminate information, to people who have access to a copier, to a printing press. Notify these people with sufficient amount of information that they can be fully educated and knowledgeable so that they are not spreading information that is half truth, half distorted, confused. This Awareness indicates that this is how entities can prepare: by preparing each other, by preparing those who are willing to listen. You do not have to force the information. If entities are afraid to hear it, if they have no curiosity, if they do not dare listen, do not force it on them. This Awareness indicates that as time passes, and these things become more in the news, as UFOs are talked about more, as the advertisements begin to present more information on UFOs, as the movies bring out more UFO stories, as these things begin to happen, people will want to know more. Have extra copies of your material for them. Purchase these books, tapes, study these things that have been released wherein people are risking their lives to get this information to you. Study these things, have copies, purchase extra copies. The more you purchase, the more you are contributing to the future of humanity. Give these copies, loan these copies, sell these copies; whatever it takes to get the information out. People need to know. Many entities want to know. Do not frighten entities who are already helpless. Do not give it to the old lady who is on her deathbed, or who is afraid to open her drapes at night. It would only frighten her and harm her. Give it to them in doses they can accept. If they cannot accept the full dose, give them something mild until they ask for more. This Awareness indicates it is possible that humanity can survive. The aliens presently on Earth have greater technology than humans and yet they have this fear of humans because of human emotion. It is something they do not understand; and remember to wrap yourself and your loved ones in White Light frequently, especially so when you are out in isolated areas, or when you are monitored and feel vibrations tapping into your consciousness. This Awareness suggests any further questions may be asked at this time or the Interpreter may be brought from trance. HOW UFO RESEARCHERS GATHER THEIR INFORMATION (High Praise To Valdamar Valerian) QUESTION: "We do have a few more questions while we're on this subject. In the book, now out of print, called THE MATRIX, by Valdamar Valerian, who's of the Nevada Aerial Research Group, there's a little additional information I'd like to read, and ask if this information on these entities is also valid." COSMIC AWARENESS: This Awareness wishes to make a comment here, in regard to the entity Valerian. This Awareness indicates that many entities may wonder: How can a UFO researcher, having a group and putting out a newsletter on UFOs, get so much information and have it accurate or worthwhile? Is it possible that they are simply making up information to print? This Awareness indicates that in some cases, this is so. There are some who start out on a shoe string, read magazines and then put out information. There are many stories in some tabloids that are simply fabricated, made up, but this Awareness indicates there is an enormous amount of UFO information that has been double-checked in different ways. There are many entities in the field of UFO technology, working within the government, working in areas or living in areas near bases, or people who have some relationship with similar entities, and who have some knowledge, many of these entities having spent much of their lifetime studying UFOs or UFO technology or working with government branches that were involved in such, and as these entities reach a certain age or leave their occupation or begin to feel a twinge of guilty conscience about what they perceive as not being the highest and best for the American people, they begin to desire to give this information, to get it out. These entities often write to groups like the Nevada Aerial Research Group and the entity Valerian; and this entity, just by being there, receives enormous amounts of information from people who have something to tell, whose history and background was deeply involved in this kind of cover-up, and these entities often corroborate each other's testimony. One can say something; five years later, another report comes in that verifies something that came in before, and these entities in corroborating each other, lend credit, especially if these entities did not know each other or came from different backgrounds and had no similar connection, and the same is so for abductees; wherein the abductee from South America experiences the same thing as an abductee from Europe or Asia or the United States, a pattern begins to emerge and that pattern indicates something real is happening all over the world. This Awareness indicates it is in this manner that information is gathered that tends to indicate a strong validity, even though the information may seem to be out of this world, and even alien to one's intelligence. (This Awareness suggests the question continue). THE VARIOUS SPECIES OF ALIENS IN THE UNDERGROUND CITY QUESTION RESUMES: "Yes. This quoted from the book, THE MATRIX. "Grey Species 2--the Reticulans. This species is the one most commonly thought of as being `Greys', and is the one popularized in recent books about the subject. This species consists of beings that exists at 3rd, 4th, and 5th density levels. Most of them exist at the 4th density level, which means that they are telepathic in nature. Those existing at the 5th level have no physical bodies but must inhabit what they call "doll bodies," or android bionic bodies. Connection is sustained with these bodies through chakra points. Grey Species 2 is a species that functions in a mode that is apparently military in nature, with a rigidly defined social structure that holds science and conquering worlds to be the prime mover. What appear to be officers in this society have a diagonal band running across their uniform. Officers are often 5th density, and sometimes retain what appears to be a toy doll that they exhibit to others around them. It is thought that this functions as a symbol of authority among them. Grey Species 2 are about four feet high, have heads that are large and black wrap-around eyes. They also have devices that magnify their mental fields in order to maintain control over humans abducted. They can withdraw information from the mental field of the human and use that information to form the basis for mental projections that influence the human to behave in certain ways. Some of these ways include disguising themselves as other humans or other beings in order to gain control over the human being. Mentally, these species function in what might be termed a "group mind." They do not have individualized consciousness. This fact is an advantage to humans because the Greys cannot respond adequately to a sudden shift in what they perceive to be happening. They cannot take a "curve ball," either psychologically or otherwise. Grey Species 2 is a scientifically based society that functions to study other lifeforms. They have had a part to play in alteration of human genetics over thousands of years. They seek to cross-breed with humans to create a mixture-race that will be better than either." That was the end of that article. Would Awareness comment as to the validity of that information? COSMIC AWARENESS: This Awareness indicates that this as generally correct: that there are seven of the Reticuli species or types. These may be termed races or species; that species is perhaps a better term for them. There are also seven types of Reptilians of the Draco civilization. This Awareness indicates that it can become extremely confusing to get into the many detailed levels of the species and behaviors of such; that essentially, this information as correct; that there are other details that can be added or clarified in the information, but that it is not critical or truly essential to do so. This Awareness suggests that any further questions be asked or the Interpreter by brought from trance. Ed's Note: For information on Valdamar Valerian and his Nevada Aerial Research Newsletter, please write: P.O. Box 81407, Las Vegas, Nevada 89180. This entity has put together a book in 1988, called "The Matrix: Understanding Aspects of Covert Interaction With Alien Culture, Technology and Planetary Power Structures." Several hundred copies were printed. The book contained 361 pages of information, including maps and illustrations of alien bases, including their tunnel network. Called by many UFO researchers, the most detailed information on aliens to date, "The Matrix" was also listed in William Cooper's material as reputable references. An interesting note, that backs up the information just given by Awareness, that bits and pieces of inform- ation comes in to this entity, and years later is verified by other information. In the last chapter of the `Matrix,' Valerian included 14 pages of the UFO information released by C.A.C. in 1978 and early `79, which included information on aliens, deros, replicas etc. In the preface to this information, Valerian stated the following: "COSMIC AWARENESS COMMUNICATIONS"--- Generally seen as one of the most esoteric channeled sources, C.A.C. does present some interesting concepts. Some of the data does, in fact, match verified data that we have about the EBEs. A sample of their newsletter follows..." The book, "The Matrix" sold for $60 and is out of print. Hopefully, demand may force a reprinting and perhaps an updating of this informative book, which was published by: Arcturus Book Service, P.O. Box 831383 Stone Mountain, Ga. 30083 Phone: (404) 297-4624 We heartily suggest that if you wish to research UFOs that you write Arcturus Book Service and request their latest catalog of used, hard-to-find books on this subject. New catalogs are updated monthly. This editor has been able to locate quite a few books long out of print, which Awareness has recommended in the past-the works of John Keel, for instance. Arcturus Book Service buys, and sells used books in the UFO and related fields. Get on their mailing list without delay! (Avaton) COULD HEAT BE A POSSIBLE DETERRENT TO THE ALIENS? QUESTION: I had a couple more. In the Book, *THE ARMSTRONG REPORT: THEY NEED US, WE DON'T NEED THEM, by Virgil Armstrong, he suggests: "We know the greatest weakness of these aliens is their lack of spirituality, but what about physical weakness? Surprisingly, the answer has to do with heat. Apparently, they are extremely sensitive to excessive heat and cannot safely sustain degrees beyond 80 to 85 degrees Fahrenheit. Beyond this would be injurious or fatal. "Although I am a firm believer that we must deal with these ET's primarily through spiritual means, possibly heat may serve as a deterrent or restraint. Something to ponder." Will Awareness comment on that theory? *The Armstrong Report: "They Need Us, We Don't Need Them," by Virgil Armstrong, Entheos Publishing, P.O. Box 20174, Village of Oak Creek, Az 86341. Price: $7.95 plus postage. (Also available from C.A.C. although not listed in our Book Catalog sheet. COSMIC AWARENESS: This Awareness indicates that this could be considered as a beneficial weapon in terms of dealing with these entities at certain times, or under certain conditions. Unfortunately, for the entity's argument, it does not appear to apply to all the aliens. The Reptilians, especially, do not appear to be disturbed by the elements of heat. This Awareness indicates it applies mostly to the Greys from Orion, who tend to gravitate more toward the Northern climates. It is partly for this reason that these entities prefer living under- ground than above ground. Also, they do not like the effect of the sun's rays, even when the temperature of the atmosphere is cool, the sun's rays tend to burn them, and this is not to their liking. It also is harmful to their eyes. This Awareness indicates this is fortunate for humans in that these entities tend to leave the surface alone where humans live, except at night, when it is cooler and when there is less light. (FOLLOW-UP QUESTION): "Those underground levels must be air-conditioned, are they not, because one would think it would be pretty hot down there that far into the earth." COSMIC AWARENESS: This Awareness indicates that this is in the affirmative; that generally these are selected areas, staying away from the more hot locations; these being in areas that tend to be cool, away from magma and volcanic lava and such that exhibits heat. HOW MUCH KARMA EXISTS BETWEEN THE ALIENS AND THEIR VICTIMS? QUESTION: "In this book I just quoted from, Virgil Armstrong has a theory I'd like to ask about. He writes: "The theory expounds that those who are being abducted and tampered with on the surface are in an agreement with a covenant established in another life. In short, these unfortunate individuals are purposefully born and placed here to serve as spare-parts and vehicles of purpose for the ET's in question. In other words they are to serve the sacrificial needs of the dying and needy ET's so that their civilization can recoup and endure. "If one accepts this, and I don't, then we would have to presuppose that we are already heavily infiltrated with these unfortunate individuals, who in truth would be aliens in human bodies. COSMIC AWARENESS: This Awareness indicates that there does appear to be a certain type of karma that is carried over in a kind of vibration. This karma as not necessarily a negative karma, but related to a kind of alliance; that it is a kind of pace that developed at some time in the past. This Awareness indicates that the energies on this are not clear at this time; that the Interpreter as having been in trance for too long to draw strong energy for this question; that one more question may be asked. (FOLLOW-UP QUESTION): "Well, this might be the same situation. Along this same line, I was wondering if the genetic experiments on that level described earlier, those terrible experiments, if there's any possibility that these creatures created were the genetic engineers in Atlantis thousands of years ago that perpetrated similar atrocities?" What goes around comes around... WHY MOST PEOPLE ARE WILLING TO WORK WITH THE ALIENS (PAYING THE PIPER AFTER MAKING A PACT) COSMIC AWARENESS: This Awareness indicates that in the forming of a pact wherein one benefits at one time, there is the fee or cost, and there are certain government people at this time who have formed pacts with these entities who have not yet paid the fee. This Awareness indicates that there are also opportunities by some of these entities to have a second chance to break that cycle of selling themselves to these beings, and if they can break that cycle, there is that possibility of escaping from the karma they would otherwise endure. This Awareness indicates that the entity who forms a pact at one time in one life, and works for these entities, will return to work for them again, and each time this occurs, the entity will have that opportunity to break that alliance, and if the entity can break that alliance, the enslavement is broken; but generally in the formation of the alliance and the following opportunities of working with these entities, there is a great temptation that is based on greed, tempting the entities not to break the alliance. They actually feel an attraction, a drawing, a desire to work with, to work for these aliens. They tend to think of them as masters and want to give themselves to their cause. This Awareness indicates that it is this cycle and this attraction that needs to be broken in order for entities to be free. This Awareness indicates that there will be further efforts by these aliens to appeal to the greed of people, particularly involved in the monetary situation, wherein entities will be given an opportunity to accept a chip in their hand, an alien-sponsored chip in their hand or wrist or forehead, whereby if such is accepted, they then belong to the aliens. This Awareness indicates that those who at any time accept aliens as masters will be used by these aliens. That essentially is the harvest, wherein they collect those who have sold themselves to the aliens for some security, or monetary gain, or gain of power. It is a way of weeding out the entity who wants to follow the follower, from the entity who is an individual who has personal integrity, is integrated as an individual with their own Divine Center. This Awareness indicates that in centering yourself with your own Divine Deity, the aliens can have no control, can have no hold on you. If you give yourself totally to the Highest and Best in the sense of the absolute Divine, you are free of any domination by any force outside, but if you lick the toes of the aliens, (both toes), you are their servant until you break the cycle. QUESTION: "Does Awareness have a closing message?" COSMIC AWARENESS: This Awareness indicates there is much here for entities to consider, to think about. There is much here to give entities great hope. There is much here to give entities great concern. There is much here to give entities something to study, something to reflect on, something to measure their values against, something to put their life in perspective with. There is much here to give to others, to share with others, to share carefully discerningly with the right people. This Awareness indicates that it is time for entities to do such sharing. It is valuable for entities to fully digest this information, reread it approximately three times. Share it. Make copies. Give entities other sources, references for further research, so that they do not think that you yourself are getting your information from one source only. Give them the opportunity to research it for themselves. Encourage them to do so. Then you will have someone to talk to about these things. This Awareness indicates that this is the beginning of the awakening. You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. (This Awareness suggests the Interpreter be brought from trance.) The Law of Gratitude is given. ---------------------------------------- BOOKS, UFO MAGAZINES, TAPE RECORDINGS FOR RESEARCH ON THE ALIEN PRESENCE ED's Note: For more information on UFOs and the Alien Presence, please refer to the following issues of `Revelations of Awareness:' 79-1 (The Gathering Storm); $4.00 79-18 (A Cosmic History of the Illuminati); 79-25 (The Web of Conspiracy: The Secret of the UFOs): $4.00 80-27 (Alien Invasion and Robotoids): 83-18 (Bigfoot and other weird items); 86-1 (Some Mysteries Explained) 86-14 (The Physics of Consciousness: The Bermuda Triangle); 87-6 (A Peek at Life on Venus); 89-9 (UFO Invasion and Space `Monsters'); 89-7 ("ET's Go Home!"): 89-1 (Some Possibilities in the Coming Months); 90-2 (The Web of Conspiracy, Part 5): The William Cooper Papers: The Alien Presence & the Secret Government Exposed: $5.00 90-3 (Is There a NASA Cover-up?) 90-4 (The Alien Presence: What was Missing from Dr. Beter's Info.); 90-5 (The Hidden Crisis: The Quandary of the Secret Government): 90-6 (The Third Prophecy of Fatima: The Alien Connection): 90-7 (The Drug Crisis: Are we Being Set Up for an Alien Takeover?); 90-8 (The Crystal Pyramid. Alien Walk-ins, Descriptions of Aliens etc.); 90-9 (The Web of Conspiracy, Part 6: The Servants Awaiting Their Masters: An Overview & Update on the Situation): 90-10 ("Nightmare Hall"); the Underground City at Dulce, N.M. (Special Report); $5.00 Note: Except where noted, all the above reprints are $3.00 each, available from C.A.C. INTERESTING BOOKS AVAILABLE FROM C.A.C. The Gulf Breeze Sightings, by Ed Walters. $19.95 plus postage An Alien Harvest, by Linda Moulton Howe, $45 plus $3 postage BOOK LIST CONTINUED: Communion: A True Story of Alien Abductions, by Whitley Strieber. $15 plus postage (Hardbound edition). The Earth Chronicles, by Zecharia Sitchin: Comprised of the following four books: The Twelfth Planet...$4.95 The Stairway to Heaven...$4.95 The Wars of Gods and Men...$4.95 The Lost Realms...$4.95 Order From: COSMIC AWARENESS COMMUNICATIONS P.O. Box 115, Olympia, Washington 93507 FOR FURTHER RESEARCH: UFO (Magazine) California UFO 1800 S. Robertson Blvd., Box 355 Los Angeles, California 90035 Subscription: $18 a year ($26 foreign) The UFO Data Base: 1800 S. Robertson Blvd., P.O. Box 355 Los Angeles, Calif. 90035. (With a computer and laser printer, you can have the whole story. Send $2.00 for catalog and info.) UFOLOGY Information Network P.O. Box 0123 Alamogordo, N.M 88311 Send SSAE for free info on their services. (Newsletters, computer access). Nevada Aerial Research Group Newsletter P.O. Box 81407, Las Vegas, Nv. 89180 (Write for free info and prices) Arcturus Book Service P.O. Box 831383 Stone Mountain, Ga. 30083 (Write for free catalog of UFO books, etc.) REVELATIONS OF AWARENESS is a cosmic newsletter, published for the membership of Cosmic Awareness Communications, P.O. Box 115, Olympia, Washington, 98507. -------------------------------------- -------- EOF ------------------------------------------------------------------ -- -* Don Allen *- InterNet: dona@bilver.UUCP // Amiga..for the best of us. USnail: 1818G Landing Dr, Sanford Fl 32771 \X/ Why use anything else? :-) UUCP: ..uunet!tarpit!bilver!vicstoy!dona 0110 0110 0110 Just say NO! Illuminati < MJ-12|Greys|TLC|CFR|FED|Bilderbergs > UN = "New World Order" Path: ns-mx!uunet!crdgw1!ge-dab!tarpit!bilver!dona From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Area 51 Message-ID: <1991Aug8.062857.25060@bilver.uucp> Date: 8 Aug 91 06:28:57 GMT References: <0caNhRG00Uh_Q2Wnw7@andrew.cmu.edu> Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL Lines: 21 In article <0caNhRG00Uh_Q2Wnw7@andrew.cmu.edu> cs49+@andrew.cmu.edu (Christopher J. Shields) writes: >Since I can't e-mail Don Allen I have to post... > >Don, a few weeks ago you mentioned that you had a "huge" file on area >51. could you please post it or send it to me in parts by e-mail. It >would be greatly appreciated. Chris, Check out "Web of Conspiracy"..this is the file I was referring to. It should get to your area before long. Don > -- -* Don Allen *- InterNet: dona@bilver.UUCP // Amiga..for the best of us. USnail: 1818G Landing Dr, Sanford Fl 32771 \X/ Why use anything else? :-) UUCP: ..uunet!tarpit!bilver!vicstoy!dona 0110 0110 0110 Just say NO! Illuminati < MJ-12|Greys|TLC|CFR|FED|Bilderbergs > UN = "New World Order" Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!ucbvax!agate!stanford.edu!unixhub!slacvm!johnfw From: JOHNFW@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal,sci.skeptic Subject: Solar Tour Part #6 Message-ID: <91220.162311JOHNFW@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> Date: 9 Aug 91 00:23:10 GMT Organization: Stanford Linear Accelerator Center Lines: 18 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:1617 alt.paranormal:2423 sci.skeptic:13619 (Monka Speaking) This is truly the birthplace of (human) life upon your planet. Gaze with wonder and awe! Look upon the majesty of this, the home and cradle of MAN in this Solar System. For here we see and here dwells, those mighty beings of the Adamic race. The shimmering haze about this one blinds your telescopes to the realities present. For the effects of light, distorted by this one's glowing field of force, hides the truth from the eyes of men upon your planet. For we find that the air is light and balmy. It is vibrant. For we see an atmosphere golden in radiance, beings, fair-haired and majestic. We also see here a civ- ilizatiion that exists partly between the physical and the etheric. Whenever we are close to this one, our verty beings leap in recogni- tion and we send our thoughts of love and gratitude. I'll leave you with this saying; It is better to have not said something and wish you had than to have said somnething and wish you hadn't. Standard Disclaimer. John. Path: ns-mx!uunet!convex!schumach From: schumach@convex.com (Richard A. Schumacher) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Solar Tour part#5 Message-ID: Date: 8 Aug 91 23:48:38 GMT References: <91220.073933JOHNFW@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> Sender: usenet@convex.com (news access account) Organization: CONVEX Computer Corporation, Richardson, Tx., USA Lines: 5 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:1618 alt.paranormal:2424 sci.skeptic:13620 Nntp-Posting-Host: starman.convex.com I'm not gonna complain about this stuff any more. It's truly inspired. JOHN, can you mail me copies of everything you've posted to date? I foolishly threw them away, before I learned to appreciate them. They are masterpieces of their form. Keep it up! Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!eagle!data.nas.nasa.gov!sun418.nas.nasa.gov!truesdel From: truesdel@nas.nasa.gov (David A. Truesdell) Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Alien spacecraft to be displayed? Message-ID: Date: 8 Aug 91 23:55:02 GMT References: <15368@goofy.Apple.COM> Sender: news@nas.nasa.gov Organization: NAS Program, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA Lines: 13 Xref: ns-mx sci.skeptic:13621 misc.headlines:17341 alt.alien.visitors:1619 X-Disclaimer: All opinions expressed are mine, not my employers, nor NASA's. showen@applelink.Apple.com (Don Showen) writes: >It is a matter of the assumption that people seem to make that >intelligence and spiritual would be connected. They are not, as >sci.skeptic well proves. For once Don Showen says something I almost agree with. The intelligent tend not to be spiritual, and the spiritual tend not to be intelligent. :-} -- T.T.F.N., Dave Truesdell (truesdel@nas.nasa.gov) Computer Scientist/Software Packrat "What the gods would destroy they first submit to an IEEE standards committee." Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!apple!spies!blake From: bbs.blake@doomsday.Spies.COM (Blake) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal Subject: Re: Answer to how life got started on Earth. Message-ID: <0geD73w164w@doomsday.Spies.COM> Date: 8 Aug 91 20:01:32 GMT References: <1991Aug7.152430.17799@hobbes.kzoo.edu> Sender: news@Spies.COM Organization: Spies in the wire, (408) 867-7400 Lines: 58 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:1620 sci.skeptic:13623 alt.paranormal:2426 Nntp-Posting-Host: doomsday.spies.com k080093@hobbes.kzoo.edu (Josh Vander Berg) writes: > In article <1991Aug6.120038.17853@ujocs.joensuu.fi> asiivo@ujocs.joensuu.fi ( > >k080093@hobbes.kzoo.edu (Josh Vander Berg) writes: > > > >>In article <91191.083839JOHNFW@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> JOHNFW@SLACVM.SLAC > >>>In my opinion one of the reasons why science has a hard time finding > >>>the missing link and how man evolved on earth is that man is not > >>>native of this planet but was brought or came here from other planets > > > >>Nice theory, too bad it totally ignores scientific fact. If man was > >>brought here from another planet, why the heck does he share 99% of his > >>genome with chimps? Answer: He EVOLVED from monkeys. The reason they > >>can't find any missing link is because things that lived millions of years > >>ago are generally pretty damned hard to find evidence of nowadays. I > >>suppose though that you will just argue that whoever put humans here > >>genetically engineered us to be very similar to apes. Further and further > >>into fantasy we tread.... > > > > The reason why the missing links are so hard to find is that there are > > no such links at all. A lot of skeletons of apes and people have been > > found, but no 'links' between them, we must come to a conclusion tha > > simply, there are no such links. > > > > Andreas > > > Strange, I am aware of many skeletons having been found which were definitely > non-human and non-ape, but primates. But then again, I guess all of the > paleontologists(sp?) are wrong, and you are right. I believe that the > missing link refers to a link between our proto-human ancestors and "apes". > To often people use the "missing link" to totally discount evolution. This > is wrong, looking at one gap in the fossil record does not disprove the > large body of fossil evidence which shows human's evolution from lower > primates. > > Also, this attitude "the reason we have never found it is because it does > not exist" I find to be totally repugnant. By this logic, the reason we > have never seen an atom is because they don't exist, the reason we have > never seen an electron is because it doesn't exist. > This viewpoint, aside from being incredible narrow minded, > ignores the fact that the existence of these things can be infered from > other directly observable evidence. We know there are electrons because we > observe phenomenon which can only by explained by the invention of an > electron "model". We also know that the missing link must somehow exist, > and can infer quite alot about what the missing link must be like because of > the body of fossil evidence surrounding this "gap". > > -- > Josh Vander Berg (k080093@kzoo.edu) There are links, but there seems to be no smooth transition between species. Why are the separate species' fossils so much more prevalent that the intermediate fossils? -- Blake (bbs.blake@doomsday.Spies.COM) Spies in the Wire, PUBLIC ACCESS UNIX -- (408) 867-7400 Path: ns-mx!uunet!wupost!emory!att!cbnewsj!mcripps From: mcripps@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (michael.j.cripps) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Yo! Needles/Communion & Shit Message-ID: <1991Aug9.021354.4899@cbnewsj.cb.att.com> Date: 9 Aug 91 02:13:54 GMT References: Distribution: usa Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories Lines: 37 In article , cs49+@andrew.cmu.edu (Christopher J. Shields) writes: > > 1> "Communion" as a movie SUCKED cinematography-wise and somewhat story > wise. I don't know if I'd be *that* strong about it, but I tend to agree. Haven't read the book, though. > 2> Strieber had an MRI .....NOT a Cat Scan like people have been saying. > This was reported in a year-old or so issue of OMNI ( I can't remember > the date but I do remember the article ) Actually, it was June '91. I don't usually buy OMNI, but it was the only interesting magazine at a Pennsylvania Turnpike rest stop... > A white spot showed up on his "spots" according to the article. > MRI around the area of his optic nerve. This could be an alien implant > or it could be an air bubble. > Bud Hopkins was quoted as saying in the issue of Omni > that it would be virtually impossible to remove the 2mm implant that > Strieber claims to have. Hopkins also says that that many radiologists are doing MRIs on patients that claim to have been abducted and had implants. Maybe we'll see some statistcal "evidence" sometime soon. The article also makes a point of pointing out the difficulty in determining whether some artifact is of alien origin or not. Even if these implants are found, how are we gonna tell they're alien? Mike Cripps mcripps@sodium.att.com Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!malgudi!uoft02.utoledo.edu!bgsuvax!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!gatech!wrdis01!mips!apple!applelink.Apple.com!showen From: showen@applelink.Apple.com (Don Showen) Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Alien spacecraft to be displayed? Message-ID: <15368@goofy.Apple.COM> Date: 8 Aug 91 21:32:27 GMT Sender: usenet@Apple.COM Organization: Apple Computer Lines: 15 Xref: ns-mx sci.skeptic:13625 misc.headlines:17342 alt.alien.visitors:1622 References:<2172@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de> <1991Aug6.160911.13402@cadence.com> Joe Mastroianni comments >I still find it difficult to believe that beings capable of intersteller >multidimensional or whatever else , travel, would choose to deal directly >with the U.S.government. This does not compute. It is a matter of the assumption that people seem to make that intelligence and spiritual would be connected. They are not, as sci.skeptic well proves. The ETs who have been in touch with the Govt. since the 40's are very intelligent and technological, but have no feelings or love. Consequently them and the govt. (military) get along great together. In fact that is why the Govt. attracted that type instead of a more benevolent, loving, higher, evolved type. Don Showen Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!apple!spies!blake From: bbs.blake@doomsday.Spies.COM (Blake) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Communion question Keywords: communion Message-ID: Date: 9 Aug 91 00:08:51 GMT References: Sender: news@Spies.COM Organization: Spies in the wire, (408) 867-7400 Lines: 45 Nntp-Posting-Host: doomsday.spies.com ewf2@ra.MsState.Edu (Juice S. Aaron) writes: > > A few months ago I picked up and read the vast majority of > the book called Communion. What the book had to say > was quite interesting and sometimes somewhat shocking > for me. I spent many a night wondering if big ugly > aliens with spindly arms would come waltzing down my > hall (or if they already had and I just didn't remember > it.) Then I heard that there was a movie based on > the book and after waiting millenia for it to be > released on video was able to watch it. > I noticed that the screenplay for the movie was > written by Streiber himself so I thought > we'll get the real picture that was presented in > the book. Now I watched the movie and afterwards > I found myself wondering if it was actually true to the > book. Several minor little things were changed, (such > as the gender of the psychiatrist he went to) but nothing > major seemed out of place until the scene near the end with > the aliens in suit coats and the strangeness that went on then. > I seem to remember the movie having something really > out of place near the end that involved the aliens > dressed up like humans who removed their faces to show > human faces under them. I don't seem to remember that > from the book. (Not to say it wasn't in the book as I > didn't read some bits of the book as well as I read other > bits) > Did the movie stick to the book or did streiber take > liberties with his own supposedly true story? > > JSA I believe the part at the end was a dream he had, which he discussed in Transformation, the sequel to Communion. The movie did follow the book somewhat, but left out quite a bit. The visitors never spoke in the movie. It also kind of showed Strieber as being more affected that he said he was in the book, and also made him out as being rather strange. Of course, what do you expect when you have Christopher Walken playing Whitley Streiber? (He WAS excellent for the part). -- Sean R. Lynch | Internet: | "Standard by twelve, 13665 Long Ridge Rd. | bbs.blake@doomsday.Spies.COM | Mister Crusher." Los Gatos, CA 95030 | Phone: (408) 353-1217 | Blake is innocent! Path: ns-mx!uunet!stanford.edu!apple!spies!blake From: bbs.blake@doomsday.Spies.COM (Blake) Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Alien spacecraft to be displayed? [Forwarded from sci.astro] Message-ID: Date: 9 Aug 91 00:55:08 GMT References: <1991Aug8.155535.20373@cadence.com> Sender: news@Spies.COM Organization: Spies in the wire, (408) 867-7400 Lines: 41 Xref: ns-mx sci.skeptic:13630 misc.headlines:17343 alt.alien.visitors:1624 Nntp-Posting-Host: doomsday.spies.com jdm@cadence.com (Joe Mastroianni) writes: > In article bbs.blake@doomsday.Spies.COM (Bla > >jdm@cadence.com (Joe Mastroianni) writes: > > > >> I still find it difficult to believe that beings capable of intersteller > >> multidimensional or whatever else , travel, would choose to deal directly > >> with the U.S.government. This does not compute. > >> > >[lines deleted] > >It makes perfect sense, when you consider that perhaps they are attempting > >to "ready" our society for the shock of finding out we're NOT alone. > > > >-- > >Blake (bbs.blake@doomsday.Spies.COM) > > > >Spies in the Wire, PUBLIC ACCESS UNIX -- (408) 867-7400 > > Actually, my point is: Why would an advanced civilization regard our form > of government as a vehicle to communicate or control the masses? When > we take eggs from chickens, we don't bother to ask the "head rooster". We > go right to the chickens. Its easier. > > Joe > -- > Joe Mastroianni AKA: AA6YD AA6YD @ N6LDL.#NOCAL.CA.USA.NA > Cadence Design Systems > Santa Clara Ca. "Up the airy mountain;down the rushy glen; we > jdm@cadence.com daren't go a hunting; for fear of little men " When you consider the amount of help our government is supposed to have given them, and the fact that they may be able to hide from the general public, but not from the government (Radar DOES pick them up, and the govt has known about them since the crash at Roswell, which may have been staged) it seems perfectly reasonable that they would communicate with our government in order to keep them from releasing the information too early. -- Sean R. Lynch | Internet: | "Standard by twelve, 13665 Long Ridge Rd. | bbs.blake@doomsday.Spies.COM | Mister Crusher." Los Gatos, CA 95030 | Phone: (408) 353-1217 | Blake is innocent! Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!unix.cis.pitt.edu!gvlf3.gvl.unisys.com!tredysvr!cellar!revpk From: revpk@cellar.UUCP (Brian 'Rev P-K' Siano) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Great Pyramid part 4 Message-ID: <4e0D72w164w@cellar.UUCP> Date: 9 Aug 91 04:09:50 GMT References: <91220.130729HARVEY@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> Sender: bbs@cellar.UUCP (The Cellar BBS) Organization: The Cellar BBS and public access system Lines: 16 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:1625 alt.paranormal:2427 sci.skeptic:13635 HARVEY@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU writes: > The address is only interesting because we both work at the same > lab. John is a real, genuine and honest person. I don't agree with > him on much but I don't discount his arguments just because of his > spelling. Some people believe, and the logic of a believer can > never be understood by a non-believer or should be. Maybe I will > show him how to use spellfix. Why don't you just teach him how to SPELL? """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" Brian Siano, Delaware Valley Skeptics Rev. Philosopher-King of The First Church of the Divine Otis Redding revpk@Cellar.UUCP "Ecrasez l'enfame!" - Voltaire """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!ukc!qmw-dcs!icdoc!ibmassc!rob From: rob@aixssc.ibm.co.uk (Robert Trevelyan) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Crop Circles in the UK Message-ID: <1991Aug08.183352.32236@aixssc.ibm.co.uk> Date: 8 Aug 91 18:33:52 GMT Sender: rob@aixssc.ibm.co.uk (Robert Trevelyan) Organization: IBM AIX Systems Support Centre, UK. Lines: 79 On Tuesday of last week an entirely new crop formation appeared for the first time near West Woods, Lockeridge. From the air this looks like an enormous fish, whale or dolphin 200 ft long. At each end straight pathways of flattened crop lead out into the centre of large rings 60 ft in diameter. The two paths are co-linear and form the central axis of the formation about which it is symmetrical. On either side of this great fish-shape are other pathways each slanted backwards at 45 deg. These have the appearance of flippers, or perhaps the dorsal and ventral fins of this marine animal. Whether this represents a whale, a dolphin or other fish, hooked between two great rings is not clear. Certainly the elongated tapering body which which has filled out from a swirled circle at its centre is something never previously seen. Last Thursday a further identical formation appeared near Beckhampton, three miles away. One interesting facet is that the plain ring with a straight path to its centre is one element of the "unbelievable" pictogram at Barbury Castle, which Dr Meaden has had to say is a hoax. On Thursday a friend of mine was being interviewed for a Channel 4 documentary in the first "whale" at Lockeridge. This proved almost impossible due to the noise of helicopters and microlights above. He met Robert Watts who was trying to film the formation for his new movie at the same time. He is a film-maker who helped George Lucas produce 'Star Wars' and who made movies like 'Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom', etc. His colossal helicopter which roared overhead, and to which he gave instructions through a walkie- talkie, made the Robinson my friend was in look like a toy. Footage of the Circles will be used in his latest movie, 'Once upon a time in the Universe', which will be released in late 1992. Above in the helicopter they were using a fabulously expensive VistaVision movie camera, one of only three in the world. Talking to him later they discovered that he was extremely knowledgable about the circles and had a very good insight into the circles nature . My friend was flattered to hear that he attributed this to some extent to what he had written in 'The Crop Circle Enigma'. (Published by CCCS) In the last few days two more similar formations have appeared in the Silbury Hill area. The latest ones are smaller and have the end rings over- lapping the tapering ends of the "fish-body". The two flippers are missing. One of these formations is near the end of Stone Avenue, an avenue of menhirs running S. from the great Stone Circle at Avebury. The connection between the dowsable energy lines which run through this Stone Circle and along Stone Avenue and the new formations seems undoubted. This is immediately next to the energy line whose remarkable variations had been dowsed during the earlier months of this year. And beside this new formation is a precise semicircle which is also something not previously seen. Reports are coming in of circles and larger formations in Cambridgeshire, Nottinghamshire, Cornwall, Kent, Essex, Buckinghamshire and Hampshire all of which have been found in the last few days. There are many different shapes, some completely new like the strange curly designs being found near Cheesefoot Head. A quincunx formation in which one of the four satellites is replaced by a triangle has appeared near Chequers, a Prime Ministerial residence near High Wycombe. I am told that the arrow-like triangle points straight at Chequers. There is a few formations in Cambridgeshire last weekend. Just a simple pictogram or two at Sutton near Ely where circles have never previously appeared and a magnificent 200ft diameter ring (10 ft wide) where the standing wheat in the middle is quite undisturbed. The latter, at Elton, was found one year to the day after a similar formation in the same place in 1990. The field where this ring and a smaller ring and circle are situated is right over the site of ancient Durobrivae, the second largest settlement in Roman Britain. +-------------------------------------------------------------------+ | DISCLAIMER: | | The views expressed in this document are not a corporate view | | nor reflect the views of my employer by any means but are my | | own personal views on this subject . | | | | Robert Trevelyan UKnet: rob@aixssc.ibm.co.uk | | AIX Communications VNET: TREVELR at BASVM2 | | Voice: +44-(0)256-56144 | +-------------------------------------------------------------------+ Path: ns-mx!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Question On Significant Dates Message-ID: <73434.28A16DED@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 8 Aug 91 15:34:00 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - ParaNet(sm) A, Arvada CO Lines: 38 > From: dlcogswe@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Dan Cogswell) > Date: 7 Aug 91 02:50:22 GMT > Organization: Oakland University, Rochester MI. > Message-ID: <8753@vela.acs.oakland.edu> > Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors > If this is your only objection to Strieber, I suggest you re-think > things (and read a bit more). He explains the episode you speak of in > _Transformation_ which is a sequel to _Communion_. What is it you > object to about the story he told? > > Personally, I have two things to say about Strieber: (1) I don't > believe he's lying and (2) he's a *lot* smarter than your average > UFO-nut (or average person, for that matter). I'd like to see how *you* > handle the situation he's (apparently) been put into. I would be really interested in what Strieber's story has to say that convinced you that he was telling the truth? I suspect that he is a lot smarter than the average person, but that doesn't add to his credibility. I have heard a lot of stories on the "inside" of things that convince me that Strieber was making it all up. But why? > BTW, it's comments like yours that have led Strieber to label ufologists > "the cruellest, nastiest and craziest people I have ever encountered." He labels ufologists that way because we are smart to his game. After a lengthy time of trying to get us to accept his crap, he jumps ship. Tell me, just how concerned is he to leave his devotees high and dry without any resources to help them with their problems? Mike -- Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG Path: ns-mx!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Alien Spacecraft To Be Displayed? [forwarded From Sci.astro] Message-ID: <73433.28A16DEB@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 8 Aug 91 15:29:00 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - ParaNet(sm) A, Arvada CO Lines: 49 > From: wsadjw@rw7.urc.tue.nl (Jan Willem Nienhuys) > Date: 6 Aug 91 16:22:22 GMT > Organization: Eindhoven University of Technology, The Netherlands > Message-ID: <779@rc6.urc.tue.nl> > Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,alt.alien.visitors > This cattle mutilation bit is thought up by silly woolly blockheads, > who couldn't distinguish a chain saw from a surgical knife, and who, > when they happen on a dead animal that has been gnawed at by small > predators (who like the soft parts, like the genitals, yes these > so called "certain glands" why mince words, their balls of course,- > when they happen on such things, these paranormal yokels can only > think up the most implausible explanation, UFO's and Satanic Rituals > (you know these guys that revel in sneaking up on dead carcasses in the > dead of the night and relish in biting off - with surgical precision of > course - their half rotten eyes, cunts and dicks and arses - (off the > carcasses of course), all in the sick imagination of UFO-freaks and > Fundamentalist devil-hunters and hillbilly cops) and what have you. > Yechch (sp?). > > It really doesn't help to send police officers, pathologists, > veterinary surgeons and so on to investigate, because whatever they say > sinks in the morassess of the hordes of ignorant nitwits and > summertime journalism, to vanish out of sight forever and ever. Your ignorance of the subject only serves to surpass your lack of lack of dignity and net-manners. Most of the "animal mutilations" can be attributed to the action of predators, and other human-related phenomena, however there are a good number that have occurred which have been given the title of "classic mutilations." And, there have been some qualified pathological work done on the animals to indicate that a technology beyond ordinary was used to perform the surgery. Further, what makes this so incredible is the testimony of witnesses who have been in the area prior to the mutilations, or in some cases, during. While I don't ascribe an ET or UFO-related connection, some of the evidence is compelling, and deserves attention. In the future, please keep your foul mouth shut until you have the facts. I would appreciate it, as your posting was offensive. Mike -- Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG Path: ns-mx!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Emotional Food... Message-ID: <73435.28A16DEF@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 8 Aug 91 15:35:00 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - ParaNet(sm) A, Arvada CO Lines: 22 > From: galen@hoptoad.uucp (Galen Wolf) > Date: 7 Aug 91 03:33:13 GMT > Organization: Anu > Message-ID: <20008@hoptoad.uucp> > Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors > > seems to be going along with this coverup. How did the U.S convince > > these nations to go along? What evidence did they present them, and > > what possible arguments could they have used? > > government is government, worldwide. It should read: economics are economics, worldwide :-) Mike -- Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG Path: ns-mx!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Saucer Symbols References Message-ID: <73436.28A16DF1@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 8 Aug 91 15:38:00 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - ParaNet(sm) A, Arvada CO Lines: 25 > From: mc@vicorp.com (Mark Charalambous) > Date: 7 Aug 91 13:41:31 GMT > Organization: V. I. Corporation, Amherst, Massachusetts > Message-ID: <1991Aug7.134131.17818@vicorp.com> > Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors > > Does anyone know of any resources which contain pictures or descriptions > of any symbols purported to be seen inside UFOs or on UFO retrieved > material? For instance, the symbols said to be have seen inside the > Roswell saucer. As far as I know, there has been no crypto-analysis done in the civilian world, but you can bet that the government has done plenty with it, considering that there was lots of that material containing the writing in the Roswell crash. It would be very interesting to find more of this material and work on it to see if the nut could be cracked. At the present time, there just isn't enough. Mike -- Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!asuvax!ukma!psuvax1!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!porthos.rutgers.edu!mcgrew From: mcgrew@porthos.rutgers.edu (Charles Mcgrew) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Reading material Message-ID: Date: 9 Aug 91 06:26:39 GMT References: <1022@cronos.metaphor.com> Distribution: usa Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J. Lines: 27 eherrera@zinfandel.metaphor.com (Eric Herrera) writes: One question... I presume that we are all familiar with the plain of Nazca in Peru (big ground etchings of monkeys, hummingbirds, spiders and other things discernable only from a pretty good altitude, and supposedly quite old)... any theories, debunks, etc.? Is this a FAQ? ... I seem to recall some fellas (funded by Nat'l Geographic Soc., I think) a few years back trying to create a hot-air balloon with time-of-drawings-available materials and techniques. They succeeded. If you make the presumption that the people of the Nazca could reason out the hot-air-rises->flying-in-a-balloon, then the scenario goes like this: The priests/king/whatever were able to direct/observe the patterns on the ground from the air via tethered balloons (it does have a certain appeal -- pictures that *only* a select few non-peons can see). The stories of [dead] kings 'flying away' comes from black-balloon-'coffins', that rose out of sight due to solar heating. Anybody got a 'harder' reference? Hope this helps, Charles Path: ns-mx!uunet!spool.mu.edu!munnari.oz.au!yoyo.aarnet.edu.au!sirius.ucs.adelaide.edu.au!levels!ma913553 From: ma913553@levels.unisa.edu.au Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: calling soon Message-ID: <16598.28a16ee6@levels.unisa.edu.au> Date: 8 Aug 91 06:48:46 GMT Organization: University of South Australia Lines: 3 sorry! just testing. Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!eagle!data.nas.nasa.gov!mustang!nntp-server.caltech.edu!sol1.gps.caltech.edu!CARL From: carl@sol1.gps.caltech.edu (Carl J Lydick) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal Subject: Re: Answer to how life got started on Earth. Message-ID: <1991Aug9.113234.19017@nntp-server.caltech.edu> Date: 9 Aug 91 11:32:34 GMT References: <1991Aug7.152430.17799@hobbes.kzoo.edu>,<0geD73w164w@doomsday.Spies.COM> Sender: news@nntp-server.caltech.edu Reply-To: carl@sol1.gps.caltech.edu Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera Lines: 15 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:1633 sci.skeptic:13638 alt.paranormal:2428 In article <0geD73w164w@doomsday.Spies.COM>, bbs.blake@doomsday.Spies.COM (Blake) writes: > There are links, but there seems to be no smooth transition between >species. Why are the separate species' fossils so much more prevalent that >the intermediate fossils? Because frequently the periods in which conditions exist under which fossils will be formed are not as long as the time taken for speciation? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Carl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL Disclaimer: Hey, I understand VAXes and VMS. That's what I get paid for. My understanding of astronomy is purely at the amateur level (or below). So unless what I'm saying is directly related to VAX/VMS, don't hold me or my organization responsible for it. If it IS related to VAX/VMS, you can try to hold me responsible for it, but my organization had nothing to do with it. Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!ptimtc!nntp-server.caltech.edu!sol1.gps.caltech.edu!CARL From: carl@sol1.gps.caltech.edu (Carl J Lydick) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Solar Tour part#5 Message-ID: <1991Aug9.115958.19373@nntp-server.caltech.edu> Date: 9 Aug 91 11:59:58 GMT References: <91220.073933JOHNFW@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> Sender: news@nntp-server.caltech.edu Reply-To: carl@sol1.gps.caltech.edu Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera Lines: 12 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:1634 alt.paranormal:2429 sci.skeptic:13640 In article <91220.073933JOHNFW@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>, JOHNFW@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU writes: >the one known as Jupiter. Truly, this is a singular sight to gaze upon -------- So now Jupiter's a black hole? And even a naked singularity? :-) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Carl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL Disclaimer: Hey, I understand VAXes and VMS. That's what I get paid for. My understanding of astronomy is purely at the amateur level (or below). So unless what I'm saying is directly related to VAX/VMS, don't hold me or my organization responsible for it. If it IS related to VAX/VMS, you can try to hold me responsible for it, but my organization had nothing to do with it. Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!eagle!ariel.lerc.nasa.gov!smpod From: smpod@ariel.lerc.nasa.gov (Stefan) Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Alien spacecraft to be displayed? [Forwarded from sci.astro] Message-ID: <9AUG199109240936@ariel.lerc.nasa.gov> Date: 9 Aug 91 13:24:00 GMT References: <1991Aug8.155535.20373@cadence.com> Sender: news@eagle.lerc.nasa.gov Organization: who knows Lines: 17 Xref: ns-mx sci.skeptic:13641 misc.headlines:17346 alt.alien.visitors:1635 News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1 In bbs.blake@doomsday.Spies.COM (Blak writes... > ... > When you consider the amount of help our government is supposed to have >given them, and the fact that they may be able to hide from the general >public, but not from the government (Radar DOES pick them up, and the govt >has known about them since the crash at Roswell, which may have been staged) >it seems perfectly reasonable that they would communicate with our >government in order to keep them from releasing the information too early. How many air-traffic controllers, both civilian and military; how many pilots and flight-engineers, both civilian and military; how many ground radar operators, both civilian and military; how many levels of government; how many governments in the world are involved in this 'conspiracy' ? ;-) ____________________________ May all your scores be 'X's! _____________________________ Path: ns-mx!uunet!decwrl!mcnc!uvaarpa!murdoch!usenet From: roa@davinci.acc.Virginia.EDU (Robert O. Anderson Jr) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Roswell Message-ID: <1991Aug9.131349.11285@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> Date: 9 Aug 91 13:13:49 GMT Sender: usenet@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU Organization: University of Virginia Lines: 34 Ireallyam: roa >>wb9omc@dynamo.ecn.purdue.edu (Duane P Mantick) writes: >>What do YOU think happened at Roswell and do you think there may indeed >>be other worlds with a form of life at *least* as intelligent as our own? >From: dlcogswe@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Dan Cogswell) writes: ^^^^^^^** >First off: something *did* crash near Roswell. *What* crashed is >up-for-grabs. With the evidence the public has on it, it's really the >you may as well flip a coin: "heads" it's a UFO; "tails" it's a Fugo. >If the government came forward and said, "It was a Fugo and >here's the remains of it..." that doesn't prove anything. They could be >faking it. The only way to settle it is to come out and say, "It was a >UFO and here it is..." if that's what happened. >In my opinion, however, it was a UFO. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^ Let me get this straight, if the government says it's a UFO, then it MUST BE a UFO. If they say it's a Fugo, then they're LYING !! Bobby **Now I understand. ======================================= bobby@virginia.edu (Internet) bobby@virginia (BITNET) ======================================= Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!m.cs.uiuc.edu!vela!dlcogswe From: dlcogswe@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Dan Cogswell) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Roswell Message-ID: <8826@vela.acs.oakland.edu> Date: 9 Aug 91 14:18:28 GMT References: <1991Aug9.131349.11285@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> Organization: Oakland University, Rochester MI. Lines: 48 In article <1991Aug9.131349.11285@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> roa@davinci.acc.Virginia.EDU (Robert O. Anderson Jr) writes: => =>>>wb9omc@dynamo.ecn.purdue.edu (Duane P Mantick) writes: => =>>>What do YOU think happened at Roswell and do you think there may indeed =>>>be other worlds with a form of life at *least* as intelligent as our own? => =>>From: dlcogswe@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Dan Cogswell) writes: => ^^^^^^^** => => =>>First off: something *did* crash near Roswell. *What* crashed is =>>up-for-grabs. With the evidence the public has on it, it's really the =>>you may as well flip a coin: "heads" it's a UFO; "tails" it's a Fugo. =>>If the government came forward and said, "It was a Fugo and =>>here's the remains of it..." that doesn't prove anything. They could be =>>faking it. The only way to settle it is to come out and say, "It was a =>>UFO and here it is..." if that's what happened. => =>>In my opinion, however, it was a UFO. => ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^ => => Let me get this straight, if the government says it's a UFO, =>then it MUST BE a UFO. If they say it's a Fugo, then they're LYING !! It's easy to fabricate a story about a Fugo. The government has several samples of them (and displays them occasionally). How many ET craft have you seen in the Smithsonian? In other words, you'll *never* settle the argument by providing evidence that it was a ballon bomb. =>Bobby (Say Hello to your brothers Peter and Greg for me) =>**Now I understand. Could you explain what my being at Oakland University in Rochester in Oakland county, Michigan reveals to you? How old are you, Bobby? Just learning to type? => bobby@virginia.edu (Internet) => bobby@virginia (BITNET) Only *one* Bobby in all of Virginia? It's a good thing. -- Dan Cogswell dlcogswe@vela.acs.oakland.edu Mostly H20 and whatever pizza and Diet Pepsi digest into Path: ns-mx!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!unixhub!slacvm!johnfw From: JOHNFW@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal,sci.skeptic Subject: End of week. Message-ID: <91221.073906JOHNFW@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> Date: 9 Aug 91 15:39:06 GMT Organization: Stanford Linear Accelerator Center Lines: 13 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:1638 alt.paranormal:2431 sci.skeptic:13643 Goodmorning everybody it's the end of the week. I trust that no one received any perminent damage from anything said this week. Last night I made two shows with NASA. The first show I interviewed two of the astronaunts that were on the June 5, 1991 flight, and the second one was some information about the shuttle. When I do shows with NASA I do them stright down the line with none of my wierd stuff in it like next week I'll be looking into some eye witness reports of unicorns in South America. I'll leave you with this saying; As Dean Martin used to say at the end of his TV program, keep those cards and letters coming in folks. Standard Disclaimer. John. Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!ukc!edcastle!helium!aifh!jlb From: jlb@aifh.ed.ac.uk (John Beaven) Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Alien spacecraft to be displayed? [Forwarded from sci.astro] Message-ID: <1991Aug9.123958@aifh.ed.ac.uk> Date: 9 Aug 91 11:39:58 GMT References: <1991Aug6.160911.13402@cadence.com> <1991Aug8.155535.20373@cadence.com> Sender: news@aifh.ed.ac.uk (Network News Administrator) Reply-To: jlb@aifh.ed.ac.uk (John Beaven) Organization: Dept of AI, University of Edinburgh, Scotland Lines: 13 Xref: ns-mx sci.skeptic:13646 misc.headlines:17350 alt.alien.visitors:1639 In article <1991Aug8.155535.20373@cadence.com>, jdm@cadence.com (Joe Mastroianni) writes: # # Actually, my point is: Why would an advanced civilization regard our form # of government as a vehicle to communicate or control the masses? When # we take eggs from chickens, we don't bother to ask the "head rooster". We # go right to the chickens. Its easier. That's funny. I had assumed throughout this thread that your point was that these alien civilization would look for some intelligent life to communicate with, rather than talking to the US Govt. John Path: ns-mx!uunet!fernwood!cronos!zinfandel!eherrera From: eherrera@zinfandel.metaphor.com (Eric Herrera) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Rosewell incident Message-ID: <1036@cronos.metaphor.com> Date: 9 Aug 91 16:34:38 GMT Sender: news@cronos.metaphor.com Distribution: usa Organization: Metaphor Computer Systems, Mountain View, CA Lines: 16 Originator: eherrera@zinfandel Hello everyone, happy Friday... could (will) somebody *please* send or post a list of books, articles, etc. which address this Rosewell crash so frequently referred to here? Thank you in advance... Oh yeah... is this group primarily a "what do you think of this UFO/alien thing" or do some of us claim sightings and/or abductions? Just curious... -- ...................................................................... ___ : Eric P. Herrera : My opinions only... (__ ' . : Metaphor Computer Systems : Don't blame Metaphor / ,_ , _ : Mountain View, CA :....................... (___)/ (_/(_(_, : eherrera@zinfandel.metaphor.com ...................................................................... Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!linus!linus!mwvm.mitre.org!M14494 From: M14494@mwvm.mitre.org Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Roswell Message-ID: <1991Aug9.154724.20033@linus.mitre.org> Date: 9 Aug 91 15:13:48 GMT Sender: news@linus.mitre.org (News Service) Organization: The MITRE Corporation, McLean VA 22102 Lines: 26 Nntp-Posting-Host: mwvm.mitre.org >What do *you* think happened at Roswell...?" I think *nothing* happened at Roswell. I'll quote Carl Sagan, who said" Remarkable claims require remarkable proofs". Damn straight. If you tell me that there's a Chevy Nova parked outside, I'll probably believe you without much proof because Novas aren't too remarkable, and the consequences of believing it if it turns out to be untrue are very small. But if you tell me the Earth is being visited by beings from another world, I'm going to require good proof before I'll believe that beause it is very remarkable, and the consequences of believing it if it's untrue are large. I'll also quote a legal principle: Habeas Corpus. It means "you should have the body", and is broadly interpreted to require proof before imprisoning someone. All the "evidence" of extraterrestrial spacecraft is just talk; there a lots of people who *say* they've seen one or even flown in one, who *say* that the feds have a hanger full of them somewhere, who *say* they've held peices of wrecked spaceships in their hand, but it's all just talk. There has never been a systematic, scientific, public study of an ET or a ship, never so much as one clear, unambiguous picture of one, never an interview with one on the Carson show. Habeas Corpus, dudes! Maybe it's true that the place is thick with Martians abducting folks, chopping up cows, and doodling in the winter wheat in England. Maybe it's true that the Feds are covering the whole thing up. But for me, I'm going to withhold my belief until I see some evidence other than anecdotes and wishful thinking. [Opinions expressed are my own, and not necessarily those of my employer]